RBY + GSC > DPP + RSE

[airconditioning]

Lol, you did?

I skipped the majority of it. Shut up. >:(

I also work for monetary compensation... I'll trade you my Regice for your salary!

That's taking what I said out of context. Video games are supposed to be challenging- there's no challenge in walking up to a sprite and OLOLOL MASTERBALL.

You can't say that Jubilife wasn't missing a gym... what's wrong with having more than 8 gyms?

Jubilife was fine- it was plenty populated with a number of interesting areas (TV Tower, Poketch building, GTS, etc.). Not every town needs a gym. And I never said that there was anything inherently wrong with having 8 gyms- I was just saying that in comparison to the older games, D/P has just as many gyms.

And how do small towns with shallow histories and little time spent in them add depth to anything?

They make the world feel more alive- as in, that there's at least something more than gym battling to the world.

I would much prefer them put time into features that would generally attract genuine Pokemon fans... I bought a Pokemon game, after all.

PEOPLE WHO LIKE POKEMON AND PLAY CONTESTS AREN'T GENUINE POKEMON FANS. MORE AT 11.

Contests may not be that great in my opinion, but many people like them. And hey, they are optional. Quit whining.

I can see that you still haven't gotten over aragornbird leaving PC. It doesn't look like he's coming back, so anyone who was protected under his modship is now free prey for anyone else.

I was actually unaware that guy ever posted here. Nor do I care. And his relevance to this conversation is... ?

That's not interesting at all. ||:

My Modest Safari Zone Pikachu disagrees. :3

And hey, it's more interesting than any other 'innovation' in that Zone.

Lol I said that? The point was that they added 16 more IVs.

Why would you care about 16 more IVs?

And if EVs have existed since RBY... why aren't they listed in any analysis before the Advanced Generation? (so if they did exist, they obviously weren't important...)

Recommended reading: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Effort_value

Generation I

In Generation I, the basic EV system was introduced. Each Pokémon would give out either 1, 2, or 3 effort points, depending on its species, in a particular stat (Attack, Defense, Speed, Special, or HP). With these effort points, a Pokémon would get stronger in a specific stat by battling the same kind of Pokémon over and over. For example, continually battling Jolteon after Jolteon, with its high speed, would cause a Pokémon to eventually have a higher Speed.

At level 100, a Pokémon's stats will be one point higher in a specific stat for every four effort points gained in that stat compared to an untrained counterpart. Though leveling up stops at 100, addition of effort values can continue indefinitely, until the Pokémon reaches the maximum possible value for their stats using the box trick, where a Pokémon's stats are recalculated to reflect the amount of effort points it has gained when it is deposited in a PC.

EVs were roughly the same, sans the lack of a cap. Essentially meaning that with enough training, any Pokemon can have 999 in every stat- I shouldn't have to explain why such a system wasn't included in online simulators, and by relation, why Smogon (who focuses on online simulators) does not list them.

Responses in bold. Good day.

 

[Spinor]

Both of you, no whining. I will report both of you if you start using caps.

Just stop. Everyone has their different opinions. If someone says that periods suck and commas rule, would you see worth it debating the opposite? It goes for all cases that are opinion sensitive. If someone says that this-randomnoob's-hack is better than Pokemon Diamond... well fine, have a nice day.

Stop it and make up before I go get my MP44.

 

[Detox]

IMO, D/P/Pt was better than R/B/Y G/S/C for a few reasons

1.WiFi
2.Garchomp
3.Wifi
4.You dont need to be right beside someone to get that perfect Sneasel or Larvitar
5.You dont need to be right beside someone to Slaughter them in a battle
6.(and this is the big one,) WIFI!

Now...a few reasons why the older gens were better

1.No ugly as hell Evos
2.No salamence
3.No metagross
4.No contests (booyah)
5.It was easier to train your pokes
6. The battle tower actually didn't cheat

 

[airconditioning]

If someone says that periods suck and commas rule, would you see worth it debating the opposite?

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:

I think older Sonic games are better than the current ones.

And opinions that are flat out WRONG:

I think current Sonic games are better than the older ones.

While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.

 

[Glitter Stain]

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:


And opinions that are flat out WRONG:


While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.

Sorry, those aren't comparable to this situation. Calling someone's opinion flat out wrong... is pretty degrading to your own viewpoint.

 

[.]

I stand by my opinion that GSC was the best game of the whole series. It was the longest, let you visit two regions, and had such an excellent feeling to it, like you were really taking on the whole world to become a Pokemon Master. You took on Team Rocket, and grew stronger alongside your sinister rival. The little things like Sprout Tower were massively fun, and getting Gastly for the first time at night was the best part of any Pokemon game. Perhaps the best part was after you beat the Elite 4. I thought the game was over, and was about to put it away when I found out I was only halfway through the game. There were so many other things to do, people to battle, problems to solve, and this was all after you became a Pokemon Master! The sprites were at the level where they didn't suck, but they still looked old enough to be considered "classic".

Keep in mind, I never usually agree with the whole "THINGS WERE BETTER BACK THEN" trend. I prefer GSC over RBY simply because I FEEL IT IS A BETTER GAME. I DON'T BASE MY OPINIONS ON THE TIME PERIOD THE GAME WAS MADE. I personally felt RSE was the worst of the games. It was unfamiliar, it didn't have that sense of truly accomplishing much, and the whole region seemed foreign and uncomfortable. The starters seemed odd, and in my opinion, all three of them suck competatively (except Swampert, who is rapidly declining in usage). Blaziken was my least favorite of the 3 Fire starters of the time. Although, Sceptile is still in my heart, that I can't deny. I didn't mind the Contests or Puzzles, I never really took time to appreciate/hate them mainly because I was occupied with raising a balanced ingame team as well as trying to beat Wattson (who was RIDICULOUS >=[).

I disagree with EVs/IVs ruining the game. In fact, they made it better. They made certain Pokemon BETTER. Base stats with no ability to increase them without resulting to a move basically said "__ Pokemon cannot beat __ Pokemon whatsoever". EV's and IV's changed that, as did expanding movepools. In ADV, Starmie took out Gyarados comfortably, as did Zapdos. However, in DP, neither of the two are even close to counters to the LO Gyarados. Sure, offense dominates now, but that doesn't really matter since the same thing could've been said about Stall in the previous two gens.

I also miss the Day/Night feature in GSC, as do I miss battling Red. We can be here all day listing awesome things from GSC, but that won't solve anything.

 

[Glitter Stain]

I disagree with EVs/IVs ruining the game. In fact, they made it better. They made certain Pokemon BETTER. Base stats with no ability to increase them without resulting to a move basically said "__ Pokemon cannot beat __ Pokemon whatsoever". EV's and IV's changed that, as did expanding movepools. In ADV, Starmie took out Gyarados comfortably, as did Zapdos. However, in DP, neither of the two are even close to counters to the LO Gyarados. Sure, offense dominates now, but that doesn't really matter since the same thing could've been said about Stall in the previous two gens.

Ah, well I guess my EV/IV arguments were already moot... but I still believe that Abilities and Natures are garbage, so I'm leaving that point there.

 

[Spinor]

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:


And opinions that are flat out WRONG:


While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.

That's the god damn hard waffle I'm talking about! You are not respecting other opinions. If you see the other side wrong let them be wrong in your eyes. If they see you wrong in they're eyes, let them be seeing you wrong in their eyes. One side will be wrong, but in cases like this of opinion. There is no right or wrong answer.

Ask yourself. What's the point of the debate? Are you trying to pull Glitter into new games? Or are you trying to disprove his points? If you are, you are not succeeding and probably won't. And if you don't back off... Pichu will hit you with his axe... or something...

Just stop the fighting. It's going nowhere.

 

[airconditioning]

Vance, if more people like you posted in Pokemon General, I wouldn't have any newbs to yell at. :3

And Glitter, maybe certain opinions can't be inherently wrong, but they can certainly be presented in a stupid enough manner to make them seem so. Take a look at Vance's post- he backs up his argument with reason and logic- not by foggy nostalgia glasses.


EDIT:

That's the god damn hard waffle I'm talking about!

What do waffles have to do with anything?

Ask yourself. What's the point of the debate? Are you trying to pull Glitter into new games? Or are you trying to disprove his points? If you are, you are not succeeding and probably won't. And if you don't back off... Pichu will hit you with his axe... or something...

My purpose is to explain to Glitter that his argument (and by extension, he) is retarded. I mean, come on. He seriously complained about the difficulty of a Pokemon game.

 

[.]

Expanding on AC's response to -Advancek9-, isn't the point of an argument is to refute someone's points and establish yours as correct? I don't know people should just "stop arguing" if things got into a massive disagreement. There'd be no progress in anything if no one made it clear their opinion was correct and the other one is wrong.

 

[Glitter Stain]

Vance, if more people like you posted in Pokemon General, I wouldn't have any newbs to yell at. :3

And Glitter, maybe certain opinions can't be inherently wrong, but they can certainly be presented in a stupid enough manner to make them seem so. Take a look at Vance's post- he backs up his argument with reason and logic- not by foggy nostalgia glasses.

Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia. The other 2 I'll admit were underdeveloped... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game? GSC had only 3 real puzzles. (All of which weren't much of a hassle, unlike Wallace and his gym.) Sadly you're missing my point. My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

 

[.]

Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia. The other 2 I'll admit were underdeveloped... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game. GSC had only 3 real puzzles. (All of which weren't much of a hassle, unlike Wallace and his gym.) Sadly you're missing my point. My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try and get friendly with me, and try and stick to the topic at hand. The puzzles in GSC were rare and very fun. The caves were a tad hard, but that's why you buy the game. You buy it for a challenge. Having an "excessive" amount of puzzles may seem like a good argument, but considering that the same could be said about an "excessive" amount of simple paths such as the Brock/Misty/etc... Gym.

 

[Glitter Stain]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try and get friendly with me, and try and stick to the topic at hand. The puzzles in GSC were rare and very fun. The caves were a tad hard, but that's why you buy the game. You buy it for a challenge. Having an "excessive" amount of puzzles may seem like a good argument, but considering that the same could be said about an "excessive" amount of simple paths such as the Brock/Misty/etc... Gym.

I wasn't trying to get friendly with you... I just didn't want you to think that by calling him out for complimenting you I was thereby insulting you. (Which I wasn't).

 

[Spinor]

Waffles have to do with EVERYTHING!

If you're trying to prove her points retarded, you're going nowhere.

Also, check the genders, Glitter is a girl :P.

Expanding on AC's response to -Advancek9-, isn't the point of an argument is to refute someone's points and establish yours as correct? I don't know people should just "stop arguing" if things got into a massive disagreement. There'd be no progress in anything if no one made it clear their opinion was correct and the other one is wrong.

This isn't that kind of "legal debate". 2 people are fighting on each other because one thinks nostalgically, and one thinks modernly. Unfortunately, I see no real thought in this debate on whether new or old is better or not.

 

[.]

This isn't that kind of "legal debate". 2 people are fighting on each other because one thinks nostalgically, and one thinks modernly. Unfortunately, I see no real thought in this debate on whether new or old is better or not.

Perhaps you don't see the "real thought" in this debate because you're not as adamant as either of these two when it comes to their opinion on this matter. It's obvious they've been going back and forth to prove each other wrong, but they are not fighting and spamming the entire thread up with bubbling nonsense. They're providing facts and opinions. Unless of course, you have a problem with facts and opinions being posted on a Pokemon Forum.

 

[Glitter Stain]

IMO, D/P/Pt was better than R/B/Y G/S/C for a few reasons

1.WiFi
2.Garchomp
3.Wifi
4.You dont need to be right beside someone to get that perfect Sneasel or Larvitar
5.You dont need to be right beside someone to Slaughter them in a battle
6.(and this is the big one,) WIFI!

Must've missed this one.
Anyway, yeah, Wi-Fi was nice... but why would it matter when most battlers have moved onto Shoddy (competitive at least), and everyone stopped trying to catch them all after they realized that there were nearly 500 Pokemon?

 

[Detox]

Well that question I really can't answer, but hell, WiFi is fun...

 

[Spinor]

Perhaps you don't see the "real thought" in this debate because you're not as adamant as either of these two when it comes to their opinion on this matter. It's obvious they've been going back and forth to prove each other wrong, but they are not fighting and spamming the entire thread up with bubbling nonsense. They're providing facts and opinions. Unless of course, you have a problem with facts and opinions being posted on a Pokemon Forum.

What I see problematic is the abuse of opinions. I have no intent on touching the fact...*shot*

They are using facts, however, to seemingly try to prove to each other that THEIR generation is better, and I'm not liking that.

 

[airconditioning]

Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia.

Fine, nostalgia goggles and poorly developed opinions.

... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game?

Puzzles and RPGs go hand in hand- dungeon puzzle solving has been as much of a part of the game as the dungeon boss for quite a while now. It creates a unique challenge from LOL ATTACK AND WIN GAME, and keeps the game interesting. Without them, you have simple dungeon crawling, and even simpler HIT ENEMIES UNTIL THEY DIE battle mechanics.

Granted, Pokemon is different from most other RPGs, but it's an RPG nonetheless. It's nice to see it borrow (good) ideas from its brethren.

... Or it would, except I can't seem to recall D/P having any puzzles, outside of gyms and Strength puzzles. And those have been around since R/B, I'm fairly certain.

My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

See above.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

Well, it's simple. Anyone who posts in Pokemon General/ Pokemon D/P with little to no idea of what they're talking about = newb. Especially ones that think EVs/ IVs are too complicated.

That is a LOT of people.

EDIT:

Anyway, yeah, Wi-Fi was nice... but why would it matter when most battlers have moved onto Shoddy (competitive at least)

Shoddy is kind of... shoddy, when it comes to bells and whistles. WiFi is a lot more fun to play.

And everyone stopped trying to catch them all after they realized that there were nearly 500 Pokemon?

Maybe you did, but the rest of us enjoy the challenge. >:)

 

[.]

What I see problematic is the abuse of opinions. I have no intent on touching the fact...*shot*

They are using facts, however, to seemingly try to prove to each other that THEIR generation is better, and I'm not liking that.

Whether their opinions are valid or not, they're still trying to prove that theirs is correct, and considering that no one can outright claim that their opinion is superior to ___'s opinion without providing facts...Well, basically, if they're trying to defend their argument, and that they're providing facts, I don't see how it's bothering you. If you want to express your displeasure, be their guest and enter the argument. There's always more room.