Fire Wolf
it's as humid as a sauna, boy!
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I think the Ground egg group and the Monster egg group would suit this the most.
S&M Fakemon Project [Stage III: Name and Movepool]
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I nominate it goes in the same egg group as Arbok, which is Dragon and Ground group. Since they are both snakes, it would make sense to not have inconstencies. Seviper is also in the same egg groups.
I propose two names: Repiv (Viper backwards, similar to Ekans, Arbok) or Culeblaze. Culebra is spanish for snake, and blaze as in fire.
Height: 9'11"
Weight: 112 lbs.
(both are similar to Arbok/Seviper)
I propose two names: Repiv (Viper backwards, similar to Ekans, Arbok) or Culeblaze. Culebra is spanish for snake, and blaze as in fire.
Height: 9'11"
Weight: 112 lbs.
(both are similar to Arbok/Seviper)
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Height should be around 9 feet, Arbok is 11'6" and the Fakemon is a bit shorter. 9'7" I guess? Arbok's weight is 143lbs, the Fakemon looks fatter so something like 178lbs? Roughly 41kg, which makes it take 80 BP from Grass Knot / Low Kick. Only Weavile uses Low Kick, and it deals 21% - 25% (CB vs max HP / no Def Modest). Though, Lead Roserade 2HKOs (35% - 41%) with SR, Specially based Infernape does 27% - 32% (still doesn't 2HKO), Defensive, Calm Mind (+1), and Tinkerbell Celebi (usually uses Leaf Storm anyway) deals 24% - 28%, 35% - 42%, and 42% - 50%, respectively.
For egg groups...I'll edit this.
Edit: Actually...no, Grass Knot / Low Kick does 60 BP, not 80 (edited in the new calcs). So actually it seems pretty good imo.
For egg groups...I'll edit this.
Edit: Actually...no, Grass Knot / Low Kick does 60 BP, not 80 (edited in the new calcs). So actually it seems pretty good imo.
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.Aero
Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
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I'll think of egg groups in a bit, and movesets later as well. Wolf's suggestions for height/weight sound good to me as well. I just want to suggest a name.
Cobradura - Ko-brah-doo-rah
Cobra + Quemadura (which means "burn" in Spanish)
...or Quake n' Bake...
Some names suggested on the Shoddy server:
- Viplava - Me
- Firblazakeobra - Wolf (lol)
- Torcobra - Syndrome
*Will keep updating as more come*
Cobradura - Ko-brah-doo-rah
Cobra + Quemadura (which means "burn" in Spanish)
...or Quake n' Bake...
Some names suggested on the Shoddy server:
- Viplava - Me
- Firblazakeobra - Wolf (lol)
- Torcobra - Syndrome
*Will keep updating as more come*
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Opposite Day
too old for name changes
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I originally thought of a mixture of serpent and earth (Searthpent), but due to that looking ugly and too "wordy", I swapped the word "earth" with the syllables "erf", which should be pronounced similarly if my english is any good. Thus, my new name for this snake is Serfpent (Serpent + Earth + Nerf, of which this fakemon is likely to receive.) Hopefully that sounds all right.
Anti
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Maybe instead of making crappy (I'll emphasize crappy, I never thought I'd like the sound of Cyclohm and Krilowatt but at this rate I'm not far from that) names we should put the finishing touches on the movepool...since that actually matters. Even the height and weight matter more though I would hope that won't be controversial?
The biggest thing with the movepool is getting egg moves that we can trace back to the two egg groups we choose.
The biggest thing with the movepool is getting egg moves that we can trace back to the two egg groups we choose.
I just bolded the stuff that I didn't feel fit. I underlined a few more egg moves that I felt should be replaced.
*I know pursuit is an iffy option because we don't want it to null Rotom-A, Gengar, <spin blocker> but it is a very common egg move in the ground egg group. For this reason I think it should be added.
did some calcs, a base 70 attack pursuit from max atk/adamant nature does 48% - 57.2% to defensive rotom-a. not too much, naturally a 2x SE attack is going to hurt when it has base 80 power, but it won't be devistating.
(im using anti's spread he posted back on page 3, thats the one we are using right?)
edit:
Maybe something like Sincendtrus as a name? Idk its hard to think of names. If anyone wants to know that I didnt pull it out of my ass this is where i got it from:
Sistrusus is one of the Genus that a rattle snake belongs to. Incendiary is a fire making device. I had another one that was good but i forgot it. :( ill try to remember it
edit2: i am bad at naming and remembering. :( also why is d-a leaving?????????????????????
edit3: after talking with D_A on shoddy about why he hates it, i kinda have to agree with him. 103 speed is a bit ludacris. maybe like base 95 or something. even 90. also recover needs to be gone. its just too bulky for it not to be broken. yes starmie has it and can spin, but starmie is also a heck of a lot more frail.
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Dark Azelf
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Yeah ill be dropping out of this project so you guys can complete this without my help, though i doubt you'll need it.
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I agree with its egg group being Ground / Dragon, it's the same as Arbok and Seviper's and all the moves listed are able to passed down. Also, Glare could be an egg move.
Edit: Pursuit would be too much imo. :\
Edit 2: Can't we just test it first before we nerf it?
Edit: Pursuit would be too much imo. :\
Edit 2: Can't we just test it first before we nerf it?
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Anti
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I wasn't counting on people endlessly whining about how broken this is going to be despite the fact that it's all theorymon given the lack of a test (which is odd since everyone seems to love blaming theorymon for everything when we bring up Latias or Salamence but not here for some reason) and the fact that we can just edit down any parts deemed to be broken by the majority of the participants here. I'm getting really, really sick of the constant "bawwwwww this is broken" for those two reasons. It's especially not helpful when you say things like "well gee 103 is too much let's move it down to 95" without even saying how that will help. Lastly, whether you like it or not, a majority of people approved of what we have set in stone right now through voting, and unless those polls were just for fun or something, I'd rather not get spun up in a web of theorymon attempting to nerf the Pokemon.
Otherwise, obviously the punching/clawing/etc. moves need to go, I figured this would have fists and claws but I stand corrected, so obviously that's all eliminated. There is no reason to add Pursuit especially given how it's supposedly going to eliminate playstyles and be far too broken I guess ?_?
Recover can be eliminated quickly anyway so "we might as well try it out." One moveslot on Recover is one less moveslot to do something else, you must remember.
Oh, no point in Glare IMO. Three status moves is a lot, though I guess I don't care since I doubt anyone would use it, and again, we can delete it.
The only reason I suggested Puirsuit is because its a really common move in the Ground egg group. So it seemed like it could be a option. But the endless *****ing that will come from it means it should probably be excluded.
I was just saying Glare cause its a Snake so it would, presumably, be breedable with Arbok/Seviper and they can pass it down. It was kind of a consistency kind of thing.
Dark Azelf
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I am still not going to participate in any of this from movepool to getting it on the server but ill post to defend what i said.
The reason 103 speed is RIDICULOUS is because people bring up Hydro Pump Rotom as a check and yet fakemon outspeeds the damn thing ?___? and outspeeds the majority of the metagame (THE most important benchmark in pokemon basically; base 100's, this increases its probability to spin tenfold vs everything slower than it, which is its job - to remove hazards) so its easy to spin pretty much, too easy. Even LO Starmie who is a near unstoppable spinner is at risk from Thunderbolt should it mispredict, this fakemon isnt. If it mispredicts, "lol it doesnt even matter because they cant touch me anyway" and if they don't go to a ghost you get a spin off, pretty simple stuff. You cant adapt to something that removes the viability of a playstyle, to back me up see : Yanmega's reign of terror in UU which removed offense COMPLETELY during that meta, thats is why it was banned. Our fakemon will do the same if this "oh lets give it the best typing for a spinner, Recover, Pursuit etc" nonsense keeps up, except with stall and spikes stacking offense, it makes them moot. You cant even run dual ghosts to stop it (which im all for doing, hell i have to do it in UU to stop Foresight Spinners, so its not as if im not "willing to adapt") because A. They cant touch it and B. It 2HKo's all the viable ones with relative ease with a LO spinner spread, which is honestly its optimal set based on the moves it has currently, its typing and also its stat spread.
Its also not theorymon when no ghost can even touch it, that is my biggest issue with this pokemon (the bolded), its typing (and speed) is the thing that makes it too hard to block spin from. (No really - they cant touch it at all a simple ev spread of 236 speed / 136 sp.att / 136 sp.def @ timid @ LO lets it outspeed + speed base 100's, 2hko defensive Rotom, OHKO Gengar, live LO Gar's Shadow Ball even after SR damage and LO recoil from itself).
So for the it "loses to other ghosts 'argument'". (Which is indeed theorymon too if whatever i said before is - not that that is a bad thing, since the theorymon needs to be solid beforehand)
This is with 136 sp.att @ Timid with a Life Orb -
- Min HP /Min S.Def Gengar - OHKO'd by Fire Blast after SR and cannot OHKO in return with LO Shadow Ball with the spread i gave for the fakemon above, even with SR up.
- 252 HP / 80 S.Def Rotom - A 2HKO'd by Fire Blast even without SR
- 252 HP Noir - 2HKO'd By Fire Blast after SR cannot KO in return, easily loses even with sp.def investments thanks to Pain Split being horrid.
- 252 hp / 116 s.def + nature Tomb - see Dusknoir.
Any other ghost is unviable in the OU metagame basically apart from Mismag, even then "its uu" and "no one uses it as a spinblocker in OU as it has problems with common spinners such as Forry". Though it still does 41% - 49% to the bulky ghost mismag set on smogon aka 2hko with Rocks up. ~__~
So you have basically limited anyone who wants to stack Spikes options to;
Rotom - w @ a move that sacrifices its ability to be THE best status absorber (and best set basically) in the game and now lose to stuff like Blissey. :/ aka Hydro Bad.
This is my problem with this concept. Every other anti spin ghost is pointless apart from Rotom-W (and only wash), it restricts anti-spinners greatly, there is already a lack of them in that department and fakemon makes it WORSE and it as said its restrictive of playstyles.
Either way i dont want to participate in this anymore so i dont care, you can test it all you want and no its not because of it being broken. Its everything about this, the sprites took too long, lack of other concepts to challenge this one, in favour and against one concept really isn't too good as they haven't got anything else to vote for etc. That id blame lack of challenging concepts on PC's members though lol
Lastly the test isnt going to work to work out the kinks in this, PC cant hold a test for squat, everyone saw how the Manaphy test went and previously, the Garchomp and Latias tests in 08 too. :/
Anyway yeah people who thought the DCC was annoying, this is thread is like that to me so id prefer to be left out.
The reason 103 speed is RIDICULOUS is because people bring up Hydro Pump Rotom as a check and yet fakemon outspeeds the damn thing ?___? and outspeeds the majority of the metagame (THE most important benchmark in pokemon basically; base 100's, this increases its probability to spin tenfold vs everything slower than it, which is its job - to remove hazards) so its easy to spin pretty much, too easy. Even LO Starmie who is a near unstoppable spinner is at risk from Thunderbolt should it mispredict, this fakemon isnt. If it mispredicts, "lol it doesnt even matter because they cant touch me anyway" and if they don't go to a ghost you get a spin off, pretty simple stuff. You cant adapt to something that removes the viability of a playstyle, to back me up see : Yanmega's reign of terror in UU which removed offense COMPLETELY during that meta, thats is why it was banned. Our fakemon will do the same if this "oh lets give it the best typing for a spinner, Recover, Pursuit etc" nonsense keeps up, except with stall and spikes stacking offense, it makes them moot. You cant even run dual ghosts to stop it (which im all for doing, hell i have to do it in UU to stop Foresight Spinners, so its not as if im not "willing to adapt") because A. They cant touch it and B. It 2HKo's all the viable ones with relative ease with a LO spinner spread, which is honestly its optimal set based on the moves it has currently, its typing and also its stat spread.
Its also not theorymon when no ghost can even touch it, that is my biggest issue with this pokemon (the bolded), its typing (and speed) is the thing that makes it too hard to block spin from. (No really - they cant touch it at all a simple ev spread of 236 speed / 136 sp.att / 136 sp.def @ timid @ LO lets it outspeed + speed base 100's, 2hko defensive Rotom, OHKO Gengar, live LO Gar's Shadow Ball even after SR damage and LO recoil from itself).
So for the it "loses to other ghosts 'argument'". (Which is indeed theorymon too if whatever i said before is - not that that is a bad thing, since the theorymon needs to be solid beforehand)
This is with 136 sp.att @ Timid with a Life Orb -
- Min HP /Min S.Def Gengar - OHKO'd by Fire Blast after SR and cannot OHKO in return with LO Shadow Ball with the spread i gave for the fakemon above, even with SR up.
- 252 HP / 80 S.Def Rotom - A 2HKO'd by Fire Blast even without SR
- 252 HP Noir - 2HKO'd By Fire Blast after SR cannot KO in return, easily loses even with sp.def investments thanks to Pain Split being horrid.
- 252 hp / 116 s.def + nature Tomb - see Dusknoir.
Any other ghost is unviable in the OU metagame basically apart from Mismag, even then "its uu" and "no one uses it as a spinblocker in OU as it has problems with common spinners such as Forry". Though it still does 41% - 49% to the bulky ghost mismag set on smogon aka 2hko with Rocks up. ~__~
So you have basically limited anyone who wants to stack Spikes options to;
Rotom - w @ a move that sacrifices its ability to be THE best status absorber (and best set basically) in the game and now lose to stuff like Blissey. :/ aka Hydro Bad.
This is my problem with this concept. Every other anti spin ghost is pointless apart from Rotom-W (and only wash), it restricts anti-spinners greatly, there is already a lack of them in that department and fakemon makes it WORSE and it as said its restrictive of playstyles.
Either way i dont want to participate in this anymore so i dont care, you can test it all you want and no its not because of it being broken. Its everything about this, the sprites took too long, lack of other concepts to challenge this one, in favour and against one concept really isn't too good as they haven't got anything else to vote for etc. That id blame lack of challenging concepts on PC's members though lol
Lastly the test isnt going to work to work out the kinks in this, PC cant hold a test for squat, everyone saw how the Manaphy test went and previously, the Garchomp and Latias tests in 08 too. :/
Anyway yeah people who thought the DCC was annoying, this is thread is like that to me so id prefer to be left out.
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Anti
return of the king
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But you see, this is out of place. This should have been brought up before we voted on the stats/typing/abilities and not now. We have already moved on. We'll deal with it in the editing process if what you say turns to out to indeed be a problem. However, I did run across this:
I feel like given our inability to test this thing directly at the time, the current typing/stats/etc. (I'm just gong to call it 'concept' from now on since it's annoying to type out, lol) accomplishes those three goals. It is obviously not weak to Stealth Rock. It certainly does not beat Rotom in a drastic fashion (assuming we don't give it Pursuit, what the hell lol). It sure does beat it (that's the whole point), it still can't switch in on Rotom-W. Yeah, I know that's the only Rotom it is really at risk against. I do believe that all five formes count as the same Pokemon under species clause...I wasn't aware that it really made a difference which Rotom you used unless you wanted Scarf Overheat or something. I tried to theorymon it the best I could. And hey, if that proves to be too overwhelming, we can fix it. I was operating on the two assumptions, the first being that this thread would not be backed up with complaints since the editing process would fix all of that. Outside of the sprites, everything went fast and everything was supposed to go fast since the editing process was supposed to be a big part of this. The second assumption was that this sucker would have to predict around Rotom. You can definitely argue that Rotom can come in, take a Fire Blast, then go to Swampert or something, and then it either Spins and dies or fails to accomplish its goal. Yeah it's theorymon, and that's why we need to test this out. I mean, most everything you said about beating the Ghost-types can be said about Life Orb Starmie, yet it's not gamebreaking at all. Again, all we have is theorymon. And that's not good enough. It's in big trouble with Toxic Spikes (aka wears it down) and WILL be worn down by Life Orb recoil (yeah, I am definitely leaning against Recover given your pretty convincing arguments against it).
This still doesn't restrict playstyles since everything relies on Stealth Rock.
I found the end of your post to be much more important since in case it wasn't obvious, I'm not going to allow changes to this until the testing period begins. Maybe I'm stubborn or oblivious but unless there is some sort of overwhelming sentiment for drastic changes, we will just wait. We're almost at the testing period anyway, so we might as well finish. Anyway, I'll address a few points at the end of your post.
First of all, we held Garchomp and Latias tests? o_O
But never mind that. Why didn't you bring this up in stafforums when I posted the outline for this project in the first place? I find it unbelievable that you waited until now to say this. The whole process completely collapses if we can't test the damn thing, we really can't even do this at all without working out kinks so I don't know why this is the first time I've heard this objection from you.
Nevertheless, I don't really agree, and this is coming from the person who undoubtedly has the least amount of faith in our members. And hey, if they don't care enough to work out the kinks, what will it matter? If no one is testing the Fakemon that means that we have built it with no one using it, and something that is broken but isn't used might as well be a Wurmple really lol. In that case, they have no one to blame but themselves, but this project is largely for fun (little did I expect such a useless firestorm of debate) so I think that our members will come through.
Since my assumption was that you were quitting because you didn't want to see the testing phase through to nerf the broken Fakemon that you saw, I'm glad that that's not the case. Although just pointing out that you did actually vote in favor of the better Rapid Spinner so I mean... Though I agree, more ideas would have been nice.
However, I'm pretty sure that you're the only person who knows how to get this onto the server...
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No really though, let's just finish and test and then we'll deal with all of this later. It would be so nice if we could just finish this, we're so close already.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that assuming the deletions Gamer posted are enacted and Rapid Spin goes over Recover, the movepool looks done if there are no objections. Egg moves are done. Height and weight are easy.
Which means that all that is left is the name. I'm actually for calling it snakemon and just naming it after we've done the testing since I feel like getting bogged down in the names is a really terrible idea.
me said:
I feel like given our inability to test this thing directly at the time, the current typing/stats/etc. (I'm just gong to call it 'concept' from now on since it's annoying to type out, lol) accomplishes those three goals. It is obviously not weak to Stealth Rock. It certainly does not beat Rotom in a drastic fashion (assuming we don't give it Pursuit, what the hell lol). It sure does beat it (that's the whole point), it still can't switch in on Rotom-W. Yeah, I know that's the only Rotom it is really at risk against. I do believe that all five formes count as the same Pokemon under species clause...I wasn't aware that it really made a difference which Rotom you used unless you wanted Scarf Overheat or something. I tried to theorymon it the best I could. And hey, if that proves to be too overwhelming, we can fix it. I was operating on the two assumptions, the first being that this thread would not be backed up with complaints since the editing process would fix all of that. Outside of the sprites, everything went fast and everything was supposed to go fast since the editing process was supposed to be a big part of this. The second assumption was that this sucker would have to predict around Rotom. You can definitely argue that Rotom can come in, take a Fire Blast, then go to Swampert or something, and then it either Spins and dies or fails to accomplish its goal. Yeah it's theorymon, and that's why we need to test this out. I mean, most everything you said about beating the Ghost-types can be said about Life Orb Starmie, yet it's not gamebreaking at all. Again, all we have is theorymon. And that's not good enough. It's in big trouble with Toxic Spikes (aka wears it down) and WILL be worn down by Life Orb recoil (yeah, I am definitely leaning against Recover given your pretty convincing arguments against it).
This still doesn't restrict playstyles since everything relies on Stealth Rock.
I found the end of your post to be much more important since in case it wasn't obvious, I'm not going to allow changes to this until the testing period begins. Maybe I'm stubborn or oblivious but unless there is some sort of overwhelming sentiment for drastic changes, we will just wait. We're almost at the testing period anyway, so we might as well finish. Anyway, I'll address a few points at the end of your post.
Dark Azelf said:
First of all, we held Garchomp and Latias tests? o_O
But never mind that. Why didn't you bring this up in stafforums when I posted the outline for this project in the first place? I find it unbelievable that you waited until now to say this. The whole process completely collapses if we can't test the damn thing, we really can't even do this at all without working out kinks so I don't know why this is the first time I've heard this objection from you.
Nevertheless, I don't really agree, and this is coming from the person who undoubtedly has the least amount of faith in our members. And hey, if they don't care enough to work out the kinks, what will it matter? If no one is testing the Fakemon that means that we have built it with no one using it, and something that is broken but isn't used might as well be a Wurmple really lol. In that case, they have no one to blame but themselves, but this project is largely for fun (little did I expect such a useless firestorm of debate) so I think that our members will come through.
Since my assumption was that you were quitting because you didn't want to see the testing phase through to nerf the broken Fakemon that you saw, I'm glad that that's not the case. Although just pointing out that you did actually vote in favor of the better Rapid Spinner so I mean... Though I agree, more ideas would have been nice.
However, I'm pretty sure that you're the only person who knows how to get this onto the server...
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No really though, let's just finish and test and then we'll deal with all of this later. It would be so nice if we could just finish this, we're so close already.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that assuming the deletions Gamer posted are enacted and Rapid Spin goes over Recover, the movepool looks done if there are no objections. Egg moves are done. Height and weight are easy.
Which means that all that is left is the name. I'm actually for calling it snakemon and just naming it after we've done the testing since I feel like getting bogged down in the names is a really terrible idea.
Skip Shot
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I agree with Anti on the name thing. If everyone starts throwing in their own names this will turn out worse than the CAP Project when it comes to name submissions. Most of them are stupid as is. (Never got why people kept hybridizing names anyway to come up with Pokemon names...)
Also @ D_A... the reason CAP failed so much is that they created super-powerful Pokemon but never toned any of them down bar Syclant (which got all of its power back recently). If we test our Fakemon then see what went wrong/right then tone it back to adjust, we essentially complete the purpose of the Fakemon by making it able to beat spinblockers but not too broken. It's going to take more than one try to get this right, which is why we're testing the Fakemon.
Also @ D_A... the reason CAP failed so much is that they created super-powerful Pokemon but never toned any of them down bar Syclant (which got all of its power back recently). If we test our Fakemon then see what went wrong/right then tone it back to adjust, we essentially complete the purpose of the Fakemon by making it able to beat spinblockers but not too broken. It's going to take more than one try to get this right, which is why we're testing the Fakemon.
Anti
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This is never going to get done. Obviously no one cares about it and I doubt that even if people did we'd get much out of it since by the time we're finished testing it, we'll be much more concerned seeing what better Rapid Spinners Black and White brought us rather than whatever one we could make. Bickering and lack of participation brought this puppy down, so we ought to put this our of its misery. If you wanted my "approval" to kill this then you most certainly have it.
And the plague of too many stickies is not visually pleasing.
And the plague of too many stickies is not visually pleasing.
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