Should the USA ban guns?

[Somewhere_]

I have, you just don't want to see it. Regulation is not violence, there's a reason why we have a government and we elect people to represent our nations and do what it's necessary.

No gun violence? Then what do you call the huge amount of people getting killed by guns everyday?

Regulation says what people can and can not do with their property. And if the regulation is broken, even if they have been peaceful, their property is seized and they are fined.

Democracy and will of the majority does not nullify individual consent. The majority does not have the right to take away the rights of the minority group.

 

[Neil Peart]

Those mass killings were from individuals who were mentally unstable and couldn't legally own a firearm. Which proves my point, if someone wants a gun they'll get one. There's no sure way to stop someone from getting one. I don't understand how people think gun control will work?? If you want total government control, vote for a gun ban.. My question is.. How can you count to 10 by skipping 2? You take away one Amendment you take away all, eventually.

No they don't. People kill people and humans have been killing humans long before guns were even a thought, they used rocks and spheres. If a killer wants to kill they'll kill gun or not. It's asinine to even put the thought of "people with guns will kill people" in your head. You realize 95 probably more like 99% of the population that owns guns legally don't plan to use them to kill people? If everyone who owned a gun killed people there would be a lot more murders than there are now. You'd be scared to walk the streets in a safe neighborhood. A majority of firearm deaths are from criminals and gangs. Law abiding citizens don't kill people, even if they have a gun. So get that mentality out of here.

Which proves my point, if someone wants a gun they'll get one. There's no sure way to stop someone from getting one. I don't understand how people think gun control will work??

If someone wants to get their hands on ANYTHING illegal, they'll find a way to do it. The point is to make it MORE DIFFICULT. That kind of permissive attitude toward guns is dangerous. I can't even begin to fathom how many murders have been prevented due to a criminal not being able to legally obtain a firearm. Saying it won't stop all crime is missing the point by a mile.

People kill people and humans have been killing humans long before guns were even a thought, they used rocks and spheres.

Another weak argument, sad to say. If we replaced all the guns with rocks and SPEARS and kept all the crime statistics intact, then we'd be calling for rock and spear control. Why? Because we have more gun-related deaths and mass shootings than any other developed nation in the world. Something has to be done, and easing gun control is not the answer.

 

[gimmepie]

Gang bangers don't buy guns legally, they're criminals not law abiding citizens. Why would they buy a pistol for $400 and sell it for $100 or less? Makes no sense. You can buy a full auto handgun (Mac 11, uzi, etc) for about $250. If you want an ak give them about $400-500. Hell you can purchase a fully auto gun with a laser sight, suppressor, and extended clip if you really wanted in the streets. Which in most cases illegal.

Nobody is making a gun in a back alley. Most of these guns are originally made and distributed legally and then later find their way into the wrong hands. Alternatively, some might be illegally "imported".

Define gun control.. Chicago has gun control yet look at the crime rate compared to more populated areas (LA and New York) for example. Gun control doesn't work.

Gun control would be making it harder to get a firearm, limiting the types of gun available and putting stringent background checks and evaluations in place to prevent crazy people from buying a deadly weapon.

You say gun control doesn't work because of places like Chicago? Try taking a look at the rest of the world instead of always looking in. Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Canada and several more places all enacted gun control laws (some tougher than others) and they are working.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Gun control would be making it harder to get a firearm, limiting the types of gun available and putting stringent background checks and evaluations in place to prevent crazy people from buying a deadly weapon.

You say gun control doesn't work because of places like Chicago? Try taking a look at the rest of the world instead of always looking in. Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Canada and several more places all enacted gun control laws (some tougher than others) and they are working.

Ok it seems we're on the same page, somewhat. I too believe in mandatory background checks and psychological testings as well as passing gun safety classes. Which is what I stated a few posts back. I'm all for that part of gun control. Gun control as in the class of guns available is already taken place. Not anyone can buy an AK 47 and no one can for damn sure purchase a military grade weapon, legally. So that argument is sorta invalid if you know about America's gun rights, you're from Australia so I'll cut you some slack.
Even to purchase a fully auto rifle it's extremely difficult. They do an extensive federal background check, many evaluation tests, and of course a permit which has to be passed from the Bureau and government. Which can take up to a year or more. If they see any reason to not give them a fully auto rifle they're decline the permit. If they meet all requirements then they obviously know about gun safety as well, so why not give them one? It's not like they're going to kill someone with it lol. Now again, why they'd want one is beyond me but I guess more power to them..

This is America, not Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, etc.

 

[Livewire]

I'm tired of mass shootings every other week and dead school children. Universal background checks, in addition to other common sense gun laws, help keep unfit people from having access to firearms. This is neither controversial nor political, it's common fucking sense.

Also, insert "Second Amendment is an antiquated amendment from revolutionary times and in its original context has nothing to do with individual gun ownership rights" post here. The NRA is a lobbyist group, and a successful one at that, and people need to remember the sheer amount of money involved here. The only reason you have rights to open carry an AR-15 in Texas is because there is an incredible revenue stream to be exploited, that's all. The NRA, gun lobby, and gun corporations don't give a rats ass about your personal freedoms and they only care about your "right to bear arms" so long as you keep purchasing said arms, one bullet and assault rifle at a time.

 

[Neil Peart]

I'm tired of mass shootings every other week and dead school children. Universal background checks, in addition to other common sense gun laws, help keep unfit people from having access to firearms. This is neither controversial nor political, it's common sense.

Also, insert "Second Amendment is an antiquated amendment from revolutionary times and in it' original context has nothing to do with individual gun ownership rights" post here.

I wish I could agree with this post more than 100 percent. Spot on.

The problem with the NRA types that soil this country is they have a very loose grasp on what "common sense" is, in terms of gun control.

And you're right, the Second Amendment needs to be updated, and people need to fully understand the context of it.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

I'm tired of mass shootings every other week and dead school children. Universal background checks, in addition to other common sense gun laws, help keep unfit people from having access to firearms. This is neither controversial nor political, it's common ****ing sense.

Mass shootings and school shootings every other week? What?? Not even close, more like every 2-3 years. More people get shot in the hood of Chicago daily than the amount of children killed by an mentally unstable killer in a year. (But only people that live in the area like myself know this. Chicago has very strict gun control and a gang banger says, getting a gun is like taking candy from a baby"). Which those killers weren't legally allowed to own a firearm anyways. Those states where those shootings took place, they had gun control laws just like Chicago. The Sandy Hook shooting. The shooter wasn't allowed to own a firearm due to psychological history yet he was able to get one. Explain those mass shootings taken place by people unable to obtain a firearm. They obviously didn't buy them legally.

Also, re-read my post. I'm for gun control, to an extent, just the obvious ones (background checks, psychological testings, and classes). The class of gun doesn't matter, no matter the state you live in it's difficult to get a fully auto as it should be. But if someone knows proper gun safety and passes all the requirement why shouldn't they own one? They obviously had to take extensive evaluations and background checks to qualify and get a permit which costs $1000 as well as being passed by the government. Meaning they've proven themselves as responsible and mentally stable.

 

[curiousnathan]

Guns aren't causing the crime. It's the individuals wielding it that are committing it. I'll admit that there are gun law loopholes that need to be changed. However, taking away the gun isn't going to stop the crime. Those gang members aren't going to suddenly become best of friends. No. They're going to use whatever is at their disposal to attack whoever they see as their enemy.

Gang violence are the leading cause of homicides in the US. What they need to do is do something about those thugs. I've seen too much gang violence in my life.

I have always found the "guns do not kill people, people kill people" argument quite a flawed one. A lot of posts claim that a ban will have no impact on crime rates. These are clearly mistaken. It might not erase crime altogether, but I'm confident that it will wash away a large proportion of it. It will still have some sort of impact.

The concept of accessibility also has been raised. Banning guns will, apparently, make no significant difference to crime rates because they're so "accessible." This is a contradiction in itself. Banning guns will reduce their accessibility, and hence, will make a difference. Of course, there will be those that resist, but overall, the frequency of shootings and gun related crimes will fall because overall accessibility will have fallen as well.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Again. What did the law abiding citizens, the responsible ones do to be stripped the rights to own a firearm? They're responsible and they know gun safety meaning they wont be a problem to society. Why is it right to ban guns due to the small percentage of irresponsible gun owners or incidents? The responsible owners out weight the irresponsible by a vast margin. Gun control makes sense. A ban, in my opinion, is as stupid as it gets. Because you're taking yet another right away from the law abiding citizens when they didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Her]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-a-map-of-all-the-mass-shootings-in-2015/

Not getting involved because ooooh boy I know better than that, but here's a reliable PBS post that gives credence to people feeling like there's a mass shooting in America every week and then some, even allowing for difference of opinion on what constitutes a 'mass shooting'.

 

[curiousnathan]

Again. What did the law abiding citizens, the responsible ones do to be stripped the rights to own a firearm? They're responsible and they know gun safety meaning they wont be a problem to society. Why is it right to ban guns due to the small percentage of irresponsible gun owners or incidents? The responsible owners out weight the irresponsible by a vast margin. Gun control makes sense. A ban, in my opinion, is stupid as it gets.

Nothing. But it is about that small percentage that are dangerously trigger happy and murder such law abiding, responsible citizens.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Nothing. But it is about that small percentage who do, that are dangerously trigger happy and murder the law abiding citizens and the responsible ones of that small percentage.

Why a ban? Please don't say to make it more difficult to get a gun because you're only taking more rights away from those that follow the law and are responsible. That's like saying nobody can drive a motorized vehicle because of the irresponsible people driving intoxicated putting others in danger or in some cases leading to death. Drinking is a privilege and it has laws that comes with it. We can't control what everyone does, we can't control whether or not they are drunk and get in the driver seat of a vehicle. Same with guns, we can do gun control, but we can't control what they do with it. tho if they pass the requirements they shouldn't be a problem anyways.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

If you can't control what they do, then don't give them weapons.

Okay then. Let's just ban people from driving as well... since you can't control what they do behind the wheel. See how stupid that sounds?

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Car = Meant to transport
Guns = Meant to kill

Bullshit, try again.

I own a .22 pistol as well as a 9 milli and have for years.. I've yet to kill somebody with it so your opinion is irrelevant.
My sisters boyfriend. He owns a couple pistols as well as a shotgun. Guess what? They're registered and he's yet to kill somebody. Why? Because we know proper gun safety. It doesn't take rocket science.

 

[curiousnathan]

Why a ban? Please don't say to make it more difficult to get a gun because you're only taking more rights away from those that follow the law and are responsible.

To make it more difficult to get a gun.

I don't see how that is not a valid argument because it would apparently take the rights away from those that follow the law etc. It's a valid argument because banning guns would make it more difficult to get a gun.

That's like saying nobody can drive a motorized vehicle because of the irresponsible people driving intoxicated putting others in danger or in some cases leading to death. Drinking is a privilege and it has laws that comes with it. We can't control what everyone does, we can't control whether or not they are drunk and get in the driver seat of a vehicle. Same with guns, we can do gun control, but we can't control what they do with it. tho if they pass the requirements they shouldn't be a problem anyways.

Touché. However, it is much easier to kill a person (and a group of people) for that matter with a gun than a motorised vehicle. It can be concealed easily, it is ergonomic, it is a tool specifically designed to kill. Alcohol does not have the direct potential to kill someone. It can influence someone to kill another sure, but it, in itself, does not have the ability to take life.

 

[Kanzler]

Okay then. Let's just ban people from driving as well... since you can't control what they do behind the wheel. See how stupid that sounds?

Look, if you had to choose to have only one item in your life, and you could only choose one - between a car and a gun - and you'd actually find that a difficult choice? Then you have the right to think that we might as well ban people from driving as well if we're going to ban guns. But the rest of us would surely rightfully question your priorities.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

To make it more difficult to get a gun.

It's already difficult to get a gun where I live. It took me at least 6 months to get permission from the state due to testings, background checks, and a permit as well as mandatory classes for concealed carry and that's for a pistol. If that's not enough then I don't know what the fuck is.

 

[Neil Peart]

It's already difficult to get a gun where I live. It took me at least 6 months to get permission from the state due to testings, background checks, and a permit as well as mandatory classes for concealed carry and that's for a pistol. If that's not enough then I don't know what the **** is.

Then the state is responsibly doing its job, even though they could move a little faster.

 

[Lunaris Adamantine]

My opinion on this has always been no. But I definitely think there needs to be stricter laws regarding them, just as others have said. My main reason for not banning them is different than the popular opinion, though.

Basically, what I know would happen is that arms trafficking would grow exponentially. Suddenly everyday people, who have no intention of hurting anyone, will be forced to give up their firearms. But violent gang members, murderers and other sorts of criminals would not hesitate to use a black market to obtain the weapons they want. Then the only ones who have guns are the bad guys. The good guys are left vulnerable, not being able to defend themselves from a long range. Unfortunately, a baseball bat can't stop someone who's fifty feet away.

So, unless you want every non-military firearm in the country to belong to a criminal, banning guns is a really bad idea.

 

[Livewire]

Mass shootings and school shootings every other week? What?? Not even close, more like every 2-3 years. More people get shot in the hood of Chicago daily than the amount of children killed by an mentally unstable killer in a year. (But only people that live in the area like myself know this. Chicago has very strict gun control and a gang banger says, getting a gun is like taking candy from a baby"). Which those killers weren't legally allowed to own a firearm anyways. Those states where those shootings took place, they had gun control laws just like Chicago. The Sandy Hook shooting. The shooter wasn't allowed to own a firearm due to psychological history yet he was able to get one. Explain those mass shootings taken place by people unable to obtain a firearm. They obviously didn't buy them legally.

Also, re-read my post. I'm for gun control, to an extent, just the obvious ones (background checks, psychological testings, and classes). The class of gun doesn't matter, no matter the state you live in it's difficult to get a fully auto as it should be. But if someone knows proper gun safety and passes all the requirement why shouldn't they own one? They obviously had to take extensive evaluations and background checks to qualify and get a permit which costs $1000 as well as being passed by the government. Meaning they've proven themselves as responsible and mentally stable.

On what planet do you spend most of your time? We literally have a mass shooting (Defined as 4+ people killed by a gunman) all the time, or you know, several within weeks of each other:

December 2nd, 2015: San Bernardino Shooting

Fourteen people were killed in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, Calif. on Wednesday. President Obama remarked on the shooting, saying "the one thing we do know is that we have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world."

October 1, 2015: Umpqua Community College shooting

Ten people were killed and seven wounded when alleged gunman Christopher Harper-Mercer opened fire at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore.

July 16, 2015: Chattanooga military shooting

Four Marines and a Navy sailor were killed and two others were injured when alleged shooter Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez opened fire at two military-related buildings in Tennessee.

June 17, 2015: Charleston church shooting

Nine people were were killed when confessed shooter Dylann Roof opened fire on bible study attendees at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C.

Oct. 24, 2014: Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting

Four people were killed when student Jaylen Fryberg opened fire at the Washington school before turning the gun on himself.

Sep. 16, 2013: Washington Navy Yard shooting

Twelve people were killed and three injured when Aaron Alexis opened fire inside the military base before he was fatally wounded by police.

June 7, 2013: Santa Monica College shooting

Five people were killed and four others wounded when shooter John Zawahri opened fire at the school's library. Zawahri was then killed by responding police officers.

Dec. 14, 2012: Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

Twenty-six people were killed when shooter Adam Lanza opened fired at the elementary school in Sandy Hook, Conn. Lanza also shot and killed his mother and later killed himself.

September 27, 2012: Minneapolis workplace shooting

Six people were killed and two injured when Andrew John Engeldinger opened fire at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis before taking his own life.

Aug. 5, 2012: Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting

Six people were killed and four wounded when Wade Michael Page opened fire at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis. Page committed suicide after he was shot by a responding officer in the stomach.

July 20, 2012: Aurora theater shooting

Twelve people were killed and 70 injured when a gunman entered the Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colo. and opened fire on the crowd during opening night of The Dark Knight Rises. The shooter was convicted in July 2015 and sentenced to life in prison without parole.

May 30, 2012: Seattle cafe shooting

Six people were killed and one injured when Ian Stawicki opened fire on a Seattle cafe before turning the gun on himself.

Apr. 2, 2012: Oikos University shooting in Oakland, Calif.

Seven people were killed and three wounded when accused shooter One L. Goh opened fire at the school. Goh was later determined to be unfit for trial.

Feb. 22, 2012: Atlanta spa killings

Four people were killed when Jeong Soo Paek opened fire at a Korean spa just outside of Atlanta before turning the gun on himself.

Oct. 12, 2011: Seal Beach shooting

Eight people were killed when alleged shooter Scott Evans Dekraai opened fire at the Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, Calif.

Sep. 6, 2011: IHOP shooting

Four people were killed and seven injured when Eduardo Sencion opened fire at an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nev. Sencion later died in a hospital from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

Jan. 8, 2011: Political event shooting in Tucson, Ariz.

Six people were killed and 14 were injured, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, when Jared Loughner opened fire outside a supermarket in Tucson, Ariz. Loughner was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

August 3, 2010: Connecticut warehouse shooting

Eight people were killed when Omar S. Thornton, a former employee of Hartford Distributors, opened fire in the beer distributor's warehouse. Thornton later turned the gun on himself.

Nov. 29, 2009: Lakewood, Wash. police officer shooting

Four police officers were killed when Maurice Clemmons entered a Parkland, Wash. coffee shop and opened fire. Clemmons was later killed by police after a two-day manhunt.

Nov. 5, 2009: Fort Hood shooting in Texas

Thirteen soldiers and civilians were killed and more than two dozen wounded when a gunman walked into the Soldier Readiness Processing Center at Fort Hood, Texas and opened fire. Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan was convicted on 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

Apr. 3, 2009: Binghamton shootings

Thirteen people were killed and four wounded when Jiverly Antares Wong opened fire at the American Civic Association immigration center in Binghamton, N.Y. before committing suicide.

Mar. 29, 2009: Carthage nursing home shooting

Eight people were killed and three injured when Robert Stewart opened fire at a nursing home in Carthage, N.C.

Mar. 10, 2009: Geneva County massacre in Alabama

Ten people were killed by Michael McClendon, including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy. McClendon then killed himself.

June 25, 2008: Atlantis Plastics shooting

Five people were killed when Wesley Neal Higdon opened fire at the Atlantis Plastics factory in Henderson, Ky. before turning the gun on himself.

Feb. 14, 2008: Northern Illinois University shooting

Five people were killed and 21 injured when Steven Kazmierczak opened fire at the Dekalb, Ill. college and then took his own life.

Feb. 7, 2008: Kirkwood, Mo. City Council shooting

Five people were killed when Charles Lee Thornton opened fire at Kirkwood City Hall. Thornton was then shot and killed by police.

Dec. 5, 2007: Westroads Mall shooting

Eight people were killed and four injured when Robert A. Hawkins opened fire at the Omaha, Neb. mall before turning the gun on himself.

Apr. 16, 2007: Virginia Tech shooting

Thirty-two people were killed when student and shooter Seung-Hui Cho opened fire at the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va. Cho then killed himself.

Feb. 12, 2007: Salt Lake City mall shooting

Five people were killed and four injured when Sulejman Talovic opened fire at the Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City, Utah. Talovic then took his own life.

Oct. 2, 2006: West Nickel Mines School shooting

Five people were killed and five injured when Charles Carl Roberts IV opened fire at a one-room schoolhouse in the Amish community of Nickel Mines in Pennsylvania before taking his own life.

Mar. 25, 2006: Massacre in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood

Six people were killed and two injured when Kyle Aaron Huff entered a rave after party and opened fire. Huff then killed himself.

Jan. 30, 2006: Goleta postal facility shootings

Seven people were killed when Jennifer San Marco opened fire at a a postal facility in Goleta, Calif. San Marco then took her own life.

Mar. 21, 2005: Red Lake Indian Reservation massacre

Nine people were killed and five injured when Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend at his home before opening fire at Red Lake Senior High School in Red Lake, Minn. Weise then took his own life.

Mar. 12, 2005: Wisconsin church shooting

Seven members of the Living Church of God in Brookfield, Wis. were shot and killed by Terry Ratzmann before he took his own life.

Dec. 8, 2004: Damageplan concert shooting

Four people were killed at a Damageplan concert in Columbus, Ohio when former U.S. Marine Nathan Gale opened fire. Gale was later killed by police.

July 8, 2003: Lockheed Martin shooting

Six people were killed and eight injured when Douglas Williams opened fire at a Lockheed plant in Meridian, Miss. before taking his own life.

Feb. 5, 2001: Navistar shooting

Four people were killed when William Baker opened fire at the Navistar plant in Melrose Park, Ill. before taking his own life.

Dec. 26, 2000: Edgewater Technology shooting

Seven people were killed Michael McDermott opened fire on his coworkers at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield, Mass.

Dec. 30, 1999: Tampa hotel shooting

Five people were killed and three were injured when Silvio Leyva opened fire on his colleagues at Radisson Bay Harbor Inn in Tampa, Fla.

Nov. 2, 1999: Xerox murders

Seven people were killed when Bryan Uyesugi, an employee of the Xerox Engineering Systems office in Honolulu, Hawaii, opened fire on his co-workers.

July 27-29, 1999: Atlanta spree shootings

Twelve people were killed by Mark O. Barton over the course of three days, including his wife and two children. Barton committed suicide after being cornered by police.

Apr. 20, 1999: Columbine High School shooting

Twelve students and a teacher were killed when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold opened fire at the Littleton, Colo. high school before killing themselves.

May 21, 1998: Thurston High School shooting

Four people were killed when Kipland P. Kinkel opened fire at the Springfield, Ore. high school.

Mar. 24, 1998: Westside Middle School shooting

Five people were killed when middle school students Mitchell Scott Johnson and Andrew Douglas Golden opened fire at the Arkansas school.

Mar. 6, 1998: Connecticut Lottery shooting

Four people were killed when lottery worker Matthew Beck opened fire on four of his coworkers in Newington, Conn.

Dec. 18, 1997: Caltrans shooting

Four people were killed when Arturo Reyes Torres opened fire at a Caltrans maintenance yard in Orange, Calif. before taking his own life.

Sep. 15, 1997: R.E. Phelon Company shooting

Four people were killed when Hastings Arthur Wise opened fire at the R.E. Phelon Company in Aiken, S.C.

Feb. 9, 1996: Fort Lauderdale shooting

Five people were killed when Clifton McCree opened fire on coworkers in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Apr. 3, 1995: Walter Rossler Company shooting

Five people were killed when Daniel Simpson opened fire on his former coworkers at Walter Rossler Company in Corpus Christi, Texas before taking his own life.

More people get shot in the hood of Chicago daily than the amount of children killed by an mentally unstable killer in a year.

Which is an argument for less guns, not more.

Those states where those shootings took place, they had gun control laws just like Chicago. The Sandy Hook shooting. The shooter wasn't allowed to own a firearm due to psychological history yet he was able to get one. Explain those mass shootings taken place by people unable to obtain a firearm. They obviously didn't buy them legally.

Actually, the laws don't go far enough, not that they don't work. The firearms in the aurora shooting, the Newtown shooting, etc, were legally obtained, and quickly to boot. A comprehensive mental aptitude evaluation would have stopped the Aurora shooter. He literally bought them all right before the attack, easily. Granted the gun the newtown shooter used was stolen from his mother from within his home, but they were legally purchased, there's the kicker. They need to be tougher. And if you're competent, you have nothing to worry nor complain about. Public safety is the priority, and trumps any and all rights to quickly build your own armada.