"smut for smut"

[Timbjerr]

I see this thread is heading in a lovely way.. so, can someone answer me:
Where did the bible come from?
And no, "God's words" isn't a qualified answer.

The Bible has been translated, mistranslated, edited, and re-edited 9001 times throughout human history. I think it's fair to say that the standard King James Bible (ironically so named because it was last recompiled and edited by a King of England instead of any holy personage) as we know it today isn't as divinely inspired as the original versions of the writings that it's compiled from. :/

Remember, there was a time when the Catholic church had political control over everything and their leaders were just as corrupt and power-hungry as most politicians. XD

 

[Dawn]

And for that, I actually applaud you.

I have mixed feelings because I don't feel particularly good about that...

Because he made no claims to context, or when they were written. He merely pointed out that the Bible is, in essence, smuttier than porn. He just said it's there, and if that's God's word, then...?

If his statement had been that simple, I would have just ignored him due to troll senses going off. However, he attempted to make a point that completely ignored the context of the times. He then completely ignored half my arguments and failed to refute the other half in favor of flashing the slavery card, again, because he knows it gets people angry. =\ I'm honestly frustrated and baffled as to how the guy supposedly isn't ignoring things.

How do we know that God meant for us to interpret it? We don't. Nowhere in the Bible does it say "Take my word for the time" or something like that. It does say, plain and simple, that His law is concrete and forever

Well we shouldn't be expecting a magic book that transforms to fit the times. It's just common sense that a book cannot be with the times forever. I'm quite confident that it was intended to be interpreted because if it wasn't it's obviously flawed and that would make no sense. There's also the issue that there's no reason to believe the bible has not been edited over time, mis-translated, or otherwise it's original meaning altered for various reasons including but not limited to corruption. These are the reasons I view the Bible's words with some mild skepticism and an open mind.

Actually, the context of the age is another reason in my favour. God created that context where slavery was OK, and right and wrong was different. He intentionally made Slavery OK. So the work of God was concrete and literal back then but should now be interpreted? In other words:


Instead of just calling me ignorant, perhaps you'd like to suggest how these lines condoning slavery are supposed to be interpreted. Considering every line is the work of god and that "until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18), theres not much else it can be.

Your argument is missing, like, completely. HOW exactly is the context of age another reason in your favour. You seem to have forgotten that part while you flashed the slavery card again. You also seem to have completel ignored the part where I explained that according to the bible life is the way it is as a punishment. Life as we know it is not heaven. Yes?

Basically, the bible wants you to stop blaming other things for your problems, take some responsibility, and live with it. How's that for a modern interpretation?

 

[Blue Nocturne]

If his statement had been that simple, I would have just ignored him due to troll senses going off. However, he attempted to make a point that completely ignored the context of the times. He then completely ignored half my arguments and failed to refute the other half in favor of flashing the slavery card, again, because he knows it gets people angry. =\ I'm honestly frustrated and baffled as to how the guy supposedly isn't ignoring things.

OK, firstly, while I didn't mention it in my first post, I did take note of the context. God created the horrible context where things like Slavery and stoning were ok. Read my posts. Also, regardless of the context, the bible is still full of horrible things, which was my original point. Thirdly, any argument I haven't answered is because Richard Lynch had already answered it, and I agreed with him. If there were other points, I apologize and I would be happy to answer them.

As for the "slavery card", I stuck with it because it was a large part my original argument, and it made sense to me to stick with it. It has nothing to do with making people angry, theres a genuine point in there. But, if you'd like some more cards:
-Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)
-Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)
-If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deut 13:7 - 13:12)
-All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9)
- If a man commits adultery with another man's wife - with the wife of his neighbor - both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:13)
- The fact that Eve was kicked out the Garden of Eden for eating a piece of fruit. Furthermore, we're all taking the hit for it as well, how unfair!

Well we shouldn't be expecting a magic book that transforms to fit the times. It's just common sense that a book cannot be with the times forever. I'm quite confident that it was intended to be interpreted because if it wasn't it's obviously flawed and that would make no sense.

Sorry for cutting this off, but this is the bit I disagree with. The bible really means what it says:
The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever. (Isaiah 40 verse 8)

Then, in Psalm the Bible says:
The law of the Lord is perfect. (Psalm 19 verse 7)

Since the laws of the Bible (which are the words of God) are perfect, therefore they should never need to change.

Your argument is missing, like, completely. HOW exactly is the context of age another reason in your favour. You seem to have forgotten that part while you flashed the slavery card again.

I've replied to this in my first paragraph, It's just here for the sake of completion.

You also seem to have completely ignored the part where I explained that according to the bible life is the way it is as a punishment. Life as we know it is not heaven. Yes?

Actually, I didn't see it. I agree with you on that, Life as we know isn't heaven. But God didn't change the world to make female equality, slavery, etc. OK, people like Abraham Lincoln, Olaudah Equiano and the Suffragettes movement did. Why should God, this is our punishment, correct?

Neither does this explain why God has a penchant for picking on certain people, such as Gays and Jews.

Basically, the bible wants you to stop blaming other things for your problems, take some responsibility, and live with it. How's that for a modern interpretation?

It makes sense at first glance, but when you look at things like this quote:
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. (Psalm 139:16)
This basically says you have no say in what happens in your life, that God planned everything down to the last second. That you can blame everything on God's master plan, and leave it in his responsibility. The Bible is a mass of contradiction, there may well be something in their that supports your interpretation, but theres plenty in there that contradicts it.

 

[Dawn]

...You did take it out of context. Allow me to go back to one of my points for the third time.

The story of Adam and Eve. You know it, right? It's famous, and all that jazz.

The garden in question was supposed to be some sort of perfect place, something like heaven for Adam, and then Eve. When they were tricked into eating the forbidden fruit... they were banished to earth. So where exactly do you get off with this God does horrible things and lets horrible things happen and is bad. attitude? When clearly, if you take the bible remotely seriously, it has an answer for that. Furthermore, we clearly have control. We were given control by whatever you believe brought us as we know ourselves into existence. They (Blatantly assuming this force is sentient) simply know that we as a whole are too incompetent to avoid things like this.

You are trying to justify, the comparison of a book revered as holy by many people and of at worst questionable historical accuracy to a book (if even) held religiously by no one I know and used for people's self pleasure. I don't even read the bible let alone hold it in a particularly high regard and I find that blatantly offensive. Let's get real here. They went out of there way to make people angry, and their intentions are far more incriminating than any argument I could possibly make revolving around what the bible says and how it was meant to be read.

The entire comparison is ignorant of the fact that people as a whole hold the bible to a higher standard! That's not even getting into how the bible and porn have very different purposes! Here's the reality of the situation. The only reason people do this, is because they know that Christians are well passed their "Crusades age". They know Christians as a whole won't stand up for themselves. A schoolyard bully kicking a retired and newly done-with-fighting professional wrestler who's already on his hands and knees, metaphorically.

 

[Richard Lynch]

I have mixed feelings because I don't feel particularly good about that...

How's that for offensive? I don't know if you're being really serious here (actually, I don't really care), but not accepting a compliment because the compliment-er is (GASP!) an atheist? In the words of Full House: "How rude!"

If his statement had been that simple, I would have just ignored him due to troll senses going off. However, he attempted to make a point that completely ignored the context of the times. He then completely ignored half my arguments and failed to refute the other half in favor of flashing the slavery card, again, because he knows it gets people angry. =\ I'm honestly frustrated and baffled as to how the guy supposedly isn't ignoring things.

It's not about getting people angry. You've been repeating that quite a few times, and that's not how it's going. We're making a solid point that just happens to make you angry. If we were just trying to offend you, for no other reason than just to offend you, it could be done far easier than pointing out contradictions in the Bible.

Well we shouldn't be expecting a magic book that transforms to fit the times. It's just common sense that a book cannot be with the times forever. I'm quite confident that it was intended to be interpreted because if it wasn't it's obviously flawed and that would make no sense. There's also the issue that there's no reason to believe the bible has not been edited over time, mis-translated, or otherwise it's original meaning altered for various reasons including but not limited to corruption. These are the reasons I view the Bible's words with some mild skepticism and an open mind.

And how is this not picking-and-choosing? Obviously there are things in the Bible that you believe to a tee (such as the Jesus story, I'm assuming?), but yet you're saying you take the Bible with a skeptical eye?

And you're right: the Bible has been edited, most famously by King Solomon, I believe. The very fact that there are scriptures that, so to say, "didn't make the cut" should raise eyebrows about it's "authenticity" as the word of God.

Your argument is missing, like, completely. HOW exactly is the context of age another reason in your favour. You seem to have forgotten that part while you flashed the slavery card again. You also seem to have completel ignored the part where I explained that according to the bible life is the way it is as a punishment. Life as we know it is not heaven. Yes?

Basically, the bible wants you to stop blaming other things for your problems, take some responsibility, and live with it. How's that for a modern interpretation?

This is directed to Blue Nocturne, but I'll step in, if I may.

First of all, the whole punishment thing is moot. We are born with Original Sin, which we all have upon birth because of Adam and Eve. However, Baptism cleanses us of that. Next patient, please?

Second, the "interpretation" thing yields in our favor because it says that the Bible is meant to be interpreted. That's a simple answer. :cheeky:

It's a point we atheists always try to make. In essence, you're saying you believe what an atheist believes. The only difference is that you claim God is responsible for making it happen (who knows how?). However, I still don't understand how saying "those who don't believe should die" or "slavery is okay" can be interpreted in ANY favorable way. Perhaps you could expand on it? And likewise, if you're answer is just "because of the time it was written", could you expand on why God's word is no longer sacred? That's a point you've ignored... why does God need to be interpreted, no matter what time they're in? And also, if it is time-related, was there ever a time where God meant what is in the Bible? There are too many questions to ask.

...You did take it out of context. Allow me to go back to one of my points for the third time.

The story of Adam and Eve. You know it, right? It's famous, and all that jazz.

The garden in question was supposed to be some sort of perfect place, something like heaven for Adam, and then Eve. When they were tricked into eating the forbidden fruit... they were banished to earth. So where exactly do you get off with this God does horrible things and lets horrible things happen and is bad. attitude? When clearly, if you take the bible remotely seriously, it has an answer for that. Furthermore, we clearly have control. We were given control by whatever you believe brought us as we know ourselves into existence. They (Blatantly assuming this force is sentient) simply know that we as a whole are too incompetent to avoid things like this.

I've covered this. You forgot that the snake talked, by the way.

Otherwise, why do you move the discussion to free will?

You are trying to justify, the comparison of a book revered as holy by many people and of at worst questionable historical accuracy to a book (if even) held religiously by no one I know and used for people's self pleasure. I don't even read the bible let alone hold it in a particularly high regard and I find that blatantly offensive. Let's get real here. They went out of there way to make people angry, and their intentions are far more incriminating than any argument I could possibly make revolving around what the bible says and how it was meant to be read.

Incriminating of what? If bringing the Bible to question? Like I mentioned, most people who speak against the Bible aren't doing it just for the sake of offending people. There's a real point to be made, as these people did. You make it sound like we're going up in front of people and saying, "The Bible sucks!", and other meaningless things. You're lowering it to that level because you want to ignore the logic behind it. That's ignorant.

The entire comparison is ignorant of the fact that people as a whole hold the bible to a higher standard! That's not even getting into how the bible and porn have very different purposes! Here's the reality of the situation. The only reason people do this, is because they know that Christians are well passed their "Crusades age". They know Christians as a whole won't stand up for themselves. A schoolyard bully kicking a retired and newly done-with-fighting professional wrestler who's already on his hands and knees, metaphorically.

You keep saying that we're just bullies, and I keep refuting it. There's a point to be made... the Christians just ignore that point and yell out, "Stop picking on me!"

It's like trying to teach a kid that 2+2=4, and getting frustrated because they continue to answer, "No, 2+2=5!"; in your view, it sounds like we're just calling them a geek for taking an interest in mathematics. Not quite. We're working in your field.

Hey... hey! Perhaps those kids who were trading Bibles for porn weren't saying the Bible was bad. Maybe, just maybe they were acting against porn, saying that it's offensive, misogynistic and evil. Would you agree with them, even if they used, as a counterweight, the Bible?

What if they weren't lowering the Bible to porn, but raising porn to the Bible?

 

[angel_blarg]

Oh oh, could I open a Bible store if I just keep taking pics of myself and handing them over to pries....wait....what?

I think I should think into this a little more.

 

[Åzurε]

OK, firstly, while I didn't mention it in my first post, I did take note of the context. God created the horrible context where things like Slavery and stoning were ok.

Nope. That was people who listened to the talking!snake, who may have been possessed by an angel. Speculation, but Satan is called a snake in... Psalms, I think.

As for the "slavery card", I stuck with it because it was a large part my original argument, and it made sense to me to stick with it. It has nothing to do with making people angry, theres a genuine point in there. But, if you'd like some more cards:
-Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)
-Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)
-If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deut 13:7 - 13:12)
-All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9)
- If a man commits adultery with another man's wife - with the wife of his neighbor - both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:13)
- The fact that Eve was kicked out the Garden of Eden for eating a piece of fruit. Furthermore, we're all taking the hit for it as well, how unfair!

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied, " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" -Matthew 22:36-40

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another."- John 13:34

There's a reason it's called the Old Testament.

As for Adam and Eve, it wasn't fruit that was the problem, it was rebellion against the Creator God. God put that one forbidden tree there for the sake of free will. To give them autonomy. They gave in and effectively left Eden themselves. By which I mean, they knew that it was forbidden, and did it anyways. Such a place has since died, and they couldn't go home again. And so we have to work at things. Sorry to disappoint you all.

Sorry for cutting this off, but this is the bit I disagree with. The bible really means what it says:
The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever. (Isaiah 40 verse 8)

Then, in Psalm the Bible says:
The law of the Lord is perfect. (Psalm 19 verse 7)

Since the laws of the Bible (which are the words of God) are perfect, therefore they should never need to change.

You are in fact leaving things out of context. Not with the Jewish culture, but with the other half of the Bible. Jesus, by establishing the priority of the commands of love, did away with the necessity of murder as punishment.

Actually, I didn't see it. I agree with you on that, Life as we know isn't heaven. But God didn't change the world to make female equality, slavery, etc. OK, people like Abraham Lincoln, Olaudah Equiano and the Suffragettes movement did. Why should God, this is our punishment, correct?

And how do you know there wasn't some divine influence in those movements? I find that atheists asking "Why should God" or "Why did God" are missing the point. He loves us, that's why. Why else should we even be here? Why not just wipe the pieces off the table? Listen up for a second. If Earth was only punishment, there would be no Second Coming planned, and no Jesus to set up that Second Coming, and no prophets to set up Jesus, and no chosen people of God in Israel so long ago, and God would not be God in his own character because He is the God of love. That's why God should- or rather, that's why God does.

Neither does this explain why God has a penchant for picking on certain people, such as Gays and Jews.

What, does He smite them for lulz? Judaism is spiritually obsolete because Jesus was a different Messiah than the Jews were expecting and thus did not convince every Jew, and homosexuality is a perversion of the purpose and privacy of sexuality. Note, that does not mean that Jews are worthless and it does not mean gays are inhuman.

It makes sense at first glance, but when you look at things like this quote:
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. (Psalm 139:16)
This basically says you have no say in what happens in your life, that God planned everything down to the last second. That you can blame everything on God's master plan, and leave it in his responsibility. The Bible is a mass of contradiction, there may well be something in their that supports your interpretation, but theres plenty in there that contradicts it.

Nooope. The actual verse basically says that God is extratemporal and, if you extrapolate just a little bit, omniscient. God, at any given point in the timeline, knows any given person, what they're like, and what they'll do. Predestination, yes, but only from God's perspective. You still have to get up and go do things. Where did you even get that, assuming it's a quote?

There's this powerful duality in the world- between good and evil, or God and men, literal and poetic- that so many people just can't seem to grasp right now, and I wish I could just make everyone get it for one second. I'm not mad with anyone, I promise that. I want you to see it for your own sakes. I'm done here for the moment.

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

Oh oh, could I open a Bible store if I just keep taking pics of myself and handing them over to pries....wait....what?

I think I should think into this a little more.

You just... win this thread.

 

[Dawn]

How's that for offensive? I don't know if you're being really serious here (actually, I don't really care), but not accepting a compliment because the compliment-er is (GASP!) an atheist? In the words of Full House: "How rude!"

...I think you didn't get what I was trying to say. I wanted to point out that I'm not sure I feel good about what I'm doing. Though I would love a compliment from you, I can't feel good about a compliment if I don't feel good about what I'm being complimented for.

Sorry. I must not have said that correctly.

It's not about getting people angry. You've been repeating that quite a few times, and that's not how it's going. We're making a solid point that just happens to make you angry. If we were just trying to offend you, for no other reason than just to offend you, it could be done far easier than pointing out contradictions in the Bible.

Blue Nocturne couldn't be less subtle about his fishing for an angry response if he had been wearing a shirt that said so. He didn't "just happen" to upset people. He wanted to. It was very, very blatant to me. I am not offended, personally, because I saw through it. I merely felt obliged to point out the tactic, in order to reduce it's effectiveness. The worst I felt reading the actual argument was a shallow annoyance, and I'm definitely not offended by anything you've said.

I am, however, too frustrated to continue the rest of our debate. Especially when we're arguing why one shouldn't trust the bible and not whether. I hope you'll forgive me as I take my leave.

 

[angel_blarg]

You just... win this thread.

Why thank you, do I get a trophy? Medal?

I'd even accept a cookie :)

But anyways, I don't think there's much point in the whole bibles for porn thing, whether you are religious or not and whatever religion you are, everyone has..uh..well, ya know.

If it isn't porn, it's mental images, imagination, thinking of another person...so frankly, I find it to be a little pointless especially with the internet, all you have to do is a google search on almost anything and you'll find porn whether you want it or not.

I'm 16, even I'm smart enough to click "I am over 18" and if I can, anyone can.

Whoa, this post went pretty much all over the place, I'm a bit scatterbrained tonight, been awake too many hours in a row.

Bet I will want to edit this once I'm more awake :P

*yawn*

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

Why thank you, do I get a trophy? Medal?

I'd even accept a cookie :)

But anyways, I don't think there's much point in the whole bibles for porn thing, whether you are religious or not and whatever religion you are, everyone has..uh..well, ya know.

If it isn't porn, it's mental images, imagination, thinking of another person...so frankly, I find it to be a little pointless especially with the internet, all you have to do is a google search on almost anything and you'll find porn whether you want it or not.

I'm 16, even I'm smart enough to click "I am over 18" and if I can, anyone can.

Whoa, this post went pretty much all over the place, I'm a bit scatterbrained tonight, been awake too many hours in a row.

Bet I will want to edit this once I'm more awake :P

*yawn*

I don't have a trophy on me right now so here's your cookie: (::)

Anyway, yeah an edit would make sense seeing as I only got about 80% of that post >.>

 

[Blue Nocturne]

Blue Nocturne couldn't be less subtle about his fishing for an angry response if he had been wearing a shirt that said so. He didn't "just happen" to upset people. He wanted to. It was very, very blatant to me. I am not offended, personally, because I saw through it. I merely felt obliged to point out the tactic, in order to reduce it's effectiveness. The worst I felt reading the actual argument was a shallow annoyance, and I'm definitely not offended by anything you've said.

This is something you keep bringing up. Quite frankly, I don't care whether or not you or anyone else is offended. When I made my point I had little concern if it upset people, I just felt the point needed to be made. I was aware that it was likely to, fair enough, but I must make myself clear that I have no intentions of simply annoying people, as it makes both me and atheists in general look bad. I'm trying to make a point the same as you are.

However, I do agree the debate is getting a little stagnant, we're essentially going around in circles.

 

[Gardenia101]

I must admit, I like their style.

I also think they should be commended for standing up and expressing their own views, I mean it is one of their rights after all to do so.
More power to them, if religious people can preach in the street FOR the bible, then atheists can make a stand somewhere public AGAINST it.
Not allowing them that is wrong, it's a basic denial of human rights and it's nothing but double standards.

Trying to get kids to trade in religious texts for pornography. I really think you can't get much lower than that. And you say you like their style? They have every right to go against it, but they are doing it in such an incredibly offensive and inappropriate manner, and I say that they sure aren't earning any respect from me. They aren't expressing their views, they're going all "Anti-Religion", and as I always used to say, "Anti-Pokemon sites are never as good as the Pokemon ones". And that metaphore shows a point; they're knowingly trying to insult people, and genuinely calling them stupid for having a different viewpoint of the world. I want to march up to them and yell, "SHUT UP!" in their face. You need to give respect to get it, and I'm not feeling very respected as a Christian now. Simply put, WHO CARES if someone else wants to believe in something you don't? I mean, when you look at it, it IS AP all over again. And when I look at those losers people, I see them the same way as the people drawing blood all over images of Pikachu. Also, preaching FOR something is never the same as preaching AGAINST something. You're forgetting one crucial fact, protestors- WE HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS JUST LIKE YOU. And if you want to go out in the streets pretending you have a life, go ahead; but when you try to tell people religion is like staring at pornography, that's over the line. You want a battle? You have it- and I'll be here waiting, waiting for the debate of a lifetime.

do you agree with the point these students were making, that the bible's sanctified text is just as morally damaging as pornography?

That has to be the most offensive thing I've ever read.

 

[Livewire]

Trying to get kids to trade in religious texts for pornography. I really think you can't get much lower than that. And you say you like their style? They have every right to go against it, but they are doing it in such an incredibly offensive and inappropriate manner, and I say that they sure aren't earning any respect from me. They aren't expressing their views, they're going all "Anti-Religion", and as I always used to say, "Anti-Pokemon sites are never as good as the Pokemon ones". And that metaphore shows a point; they're knowingly trying to insult people, and genuinely calling them stupid for having a different viewpoint of the world. I want to march up to them and yell, "SHUT UP!" in their face. You need to give respect to get it, and I'm not feeling very respected as a Christian now. Simply put, WHO CARES if someone else wants to believe in something you don't? I mean, when you look at it, it IS AP all over again. And when I look at those losers people, I see them the same way as the people drawing blood all over images of Pikachu. Also, preaching FOR something is never the same as preaching AGAINST something. You're forgetting one crucial fact, protestors- WE HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS JUST LIKE YOU. And if you want to go out in the streets pretending you have a life, go ahead; but when you try to tell people religion is like staring at pornography, that's over the line. You want a battle? You have it- and I'll be here waiting, waiting for the debate of a lifetime.

That has to be the most offensive thing I've ever read.

Well it's their opinion, and as much as you don't like it, well quite frankly there's nothing you can do about it. They're well within their constitutional right to express their opinion. Tasteless? Maybe so, but censorship is far worse.

Simply put, WHO CARES if someone else wants to believe in something you don't?

You already summed it up for me, it seems.

 

[brah]

A man threatens to burn a Koran that's not a Koran.

The world rages.



People distribute pornography for a Christian Bible.

...what of it?


Anyways.

It's double standard. Personally, I think it's lowbrow and fail, but...

Agreed.

Nothing but starting un-needed drama/trouble.
Yes they do have a right to believe or not to believe the word of God. I whole-heartedly agree with that. But there are civil ways of doing such. Not only are they blowing it out of proportion(sp?) but they're disrespecting God's word by labeling it "worse or as bad as pornographic material". -sigh-
I wonder sometimes if people even know that this country was established on a christian structure.
All in all, i say believe in what you want, I respect anyone's choice of religion or non-religion. But do me the same favor and dont throw low blows like this. Anyways, thats my two cents.

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

I wonder sometimes if people even know that this country was established on a christian structure.

Does it matter? This country was established on a pagan structure of Druidism and other "pagan" faiths. That doesn't and won't change what things are like now.

 

[Livewire]

Agreed.

Nothing but starting un-needed drama/trouble.
Yes they do have a right to believe or not to believe the word of God. I whole-heartedly agree with that. But there are civil ways of doing such. Not only are they blowing it out of proportion(sp?) but they're disrespecting God's word by labeling it "worse or as bad as pornographic material". -sigh-
I wonder sometimes if people even know that this country was established on a christian structure.
All in all, i say believe in what you want, I respect anyone's choice of religion or non-religion. But do me the same favor and dont throw low blows like this. Anyways, thats my two cents.

The country was founded on a vaguely christian structure. Most of the founding Fathers were in fact Deists, which is a far cry from the traditional practiced Christianity of the time.

Another thing to consider (in the context of S.Alice's post) that hasn't been said yet is to compare the people doing it. A PASTOR, and some unruly college kids. Big difference is marurity level and a number of other things there. What did you expect?

 

[Gardenia101]

The country was founded on a vaguely christian structure. Most of the founding Fathers were in fact Deists, which is a far cry from the traditional practiced Christianity of the time.

Another thing to consider (in the context of S.Alice's post) that hasn't been said yet is to compare the people doing it. A PASTOR, and some unruly college kids. Big difference is marurity level and a number of other things there. What did you expect?

It's not vaguely, more mostly, which would explain why God turns up on our currency and various other official items.

 

[Richard Lynch]

It's not vaguely, more mostly, which would explain why God turns up on our currency and various other official items.

Not really. Just because "God" is mentioned doesn't make it Christian.

Don't forget that many of the founding fathers rather disliked organized religion and, especially, Christianity. It really wasn't until Ronald Reagan took over that the "religious right" was formed, and the country all of a sudden became a "Christian society".

 

[Livewire]

It's not vaguely, more mostly, which would explain why God turns up on our currency and various other official items.

Notice how which God it is never specified, and people like to assume they're referencing their own God. If you knew about the founding fathers more, you would know that they (Washington/Jefferson/Franklin/Adams/Hamilton to name some of the famous ones) often referred to God as "The Supreme Architect" or "The Supreme Being" which are Deist/Masonic terms. Also what Mr. Lynch said.