Stop with the 10 year old storylines

[Al3x]

There is nothing wrong with a generic storyline imo but if the scripts are almost identical to the original rom then it turns me off. I do like a story with a twist like missing family member or different way of obtaining starter besides a professor but I not a big fan of something like you're the chosen one and gotta stop the world from being destroyed.

 

[machomuu]

There is nothing wrong with a generic storyline imo

I think a point's being missed here, because a number of people have said that and I think the takeaway people are having isn't completely what's intended. The problem isn't that generic stories are bad, it's that there are so many of them when there's room for more unique stories and setups.

It's a call-to-action to really spurn people to try new things- after all, if no one brings it up, what's the point of trying? I've noticed that for many would-be hackers the idea of what a hack can be is specifically exactly what the Pokemon games are, so something like this is kind of necessary.

 

[Deokishisu]

I think a point's being missed here, because a number of people have said that and I think the takeaway people are having isn't completely what's intended. The problem isn't that generic stories are bad, it's that there are so many of them when there's room for more unique stories and setups.

It's a call-to-action to really spurn people to try new things- after all, if no one brings it up, what's the point of trying? I've noticed that for many would-be hackers the idea of what a hack can be is specifically exactly what the Pokemon games are, so something like this is kind of necessary.

I started hacking with the intent to make a Pokemon game. I feel like the people who decide to hack Pokemon aren't generally doing it with the aim to create a Final Fantasy with Pokemon in it. They're doing it to create a Pokemon game, with the Pokemon format. It's not that people actually think they don't have the freedom to do something wild and break away from the tried and true formula, it's that they just don't want to.

And yes, when I say Pokemon game, I mean a game with the standard story. I feel like it's as integral to Pokemon as the Pokemon are. And I'd be willing to bet others feel the same.

 

[machomuu]

It's not that people actually think they don't have the freedom to do something wild and break away from the tried and true formula, it's that they just don't want to.

Eh, I think it's a combination of both, really, and as you're a testament to only the latter, I'm a testament to my own case. Back when I was younger, I thought hacking was cool because I could play around with Pokemon. Most people do. Hacking making the games into something of an engine is far less apparent (or appealing) to a Pokemon fan turned prospective hacker.

But as I explored it (and not just me, I see this perspective from a good number of hackers) and, more recently, as hacking's evolved, I've seen that it can do far more. It's at least half of why I want to see non-standard stuff: untapped potential. But as I said, people generally get into it because of the Pokemon, not the capabilities. Whether they see those capabilities or not later on varies, but more often than not I've seen that people stick to what they know because it's what they see hacking as and what Pokemon can be(this is especially apparent in hacks where ideas are uncomfortably fused with or shoehorned into standard conventions). Which makes sense, it's never brought up and the community doesn't really discuss it so why would you break from that- the idea shouldn't even enter your mind. Which is why I think a thread like this is necessary, because regardless of whether they actually do anything with this, it at least creates the thought that they can do more. Hell, they don't even have to break the formula, even smaller deviations can mean a world of freshness to the player.

And yes, when I say Pokemon game, I mean a game with the standard story. I feel like it's as integral to Pokemon as the Pokemon are. And I'd be willing to bet others feel the same.

Some others do, but I disagree, and I'd imagine the creators (or at least Nintendo) wouldn't be completely on board, either. Some of the spin-offs were pretty solid, I'll say that much, but Pokemon Snap and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon wouldn't have sold as well or probably been as enjoyed if they were Animal Safari and Fushigi no Dungeon.

Quite a few people are almost predisposed to like something more simply because it's Pokemon, and the smarter spin-offs take what people like about Pokemon (other than the Pokemon, of course) and apply it to the games. PMD does this with recruitment, Trozei does this with capture and collect, and Snap built on the collectible motif. PMD really only lauded friendship and teams from Pokemon in terms of story, but friendship is pretty standard in general and the teams aren't related the the original games (nor are they ever the antagonists). The reason I point this out is because, on a large scale, Mystery Dungeon was the first great indicator that Pokemon could tell a compelling story. If we couple this with how well received Rescue Rangers was on this very forum, it's pretty telling that even if they consciously regard "get badges, battle team, beat elite four" as what Pokemon is, most fans very much get the same (or a similar) whimsy from other things- things that indeed make Pokemon what it is without relying on those symbols.

 

[Danny0317]

I've tried normal storylines, and different storylines, and I can tell you that making a "normal" game is boring. as ****.

I like hacks that change **** - a lot. I wanna see new stuff that I haven't seen before, new characters, a new plot, a new team, a reason why the player is doing what (s)he's doing, etc.

For me, the 10-year-old-here's-a-Pokémon-go-save-the-world thing doesn't really work. I mean, I've found enjoyable hacks like that, but I prefer other stuff..

As for what I've done, I've never made the character 10 in my hacks, it's usually been 14 or 15. In my first non planned out hack, the player received his/her first pokemon when (s)he was 14, which was hella stupid. One route later, you see bug catchers.. In my second hack, the player was a research assistant, and one day helped the prof fight off some pokemon, so (s)he got to keep it... And as for my new hack, that ****'s hella complicated, LOL.

Now to avoid getting sidetrack, what I've been trying to say is:

I like new storylines more, given that they're properly executed, but the typical story is good too.

 

[Crystal Berry]

It would be wonderful if we could choose our age range which would effect certain elements of the game such as your player's height and interests, and also the level of vocabulary used throughout the game. I would love for Pokemon to have a more realistic and less PG dialogue too, but since Pokemon is marketed towards children it's never going to happen so we can only rely on ROM hacking for that.

 

[machomuu]

I would love for Pokemon to have a more realistic and less PG dialogue too, but since Pokemon is marketed towards children it's never going to happen so we can only rely on ROM hacking for that.

I'll actually make a case for existing hacks here and say that I don't think the original games' target age group is inherently the problem. Or...rather, it is, but it's more that it's rare to see a hack that would actually benefit from having less than PG language.

Put simply, if people are going to make campy games about going to challenge gym leaders and be the best there ever was, as is the case in most hacks, there's no real reason for there to be swearing or dialog of that nature. Generally when used in these cases it can be immersion breaking because it doesn't fit the tone.

I'm not saying less-than-PG language has no place in hacking, of course it does, but if you want dialog of that nature than you have to craft a game where the dialog doesn't stick out and instead feels in character.

 

[6]

Okay so I get it, you play Gamefreak Pokemon games and instead of wanting to be bold with ideas, you think well if they've made millions off 10 year old starter stories maybe I can too, right? Wrong!!!
Nothing that irks me more than a plot that starts with "You just turned 10 years old ..." or "You're receiving your first Pokemon after finally becoming old enough..." Like I understand there is a lot more to a story than meets the eye, but that is an IMMEDIATE thread closure for me.
I think plots should be more unique ... like Twisted Mind where your Mom goes missing and bizarre stuff is happening and the guy that made her disappear is helping you out, or Legend of Zelda where it's literally a Pokemon-induced Zelda game, or my hack Discovery (had to) where you are a sailor in the navy and get shipwrecked on an island and it also happens to be the discovery of pokemon or Pokemon TRE2: Team Rocket Edition where you play as team rocket, or even pokemon fissures where its involving mystery about fissures, where you probably start out as a kid but hey at least Magic covered that part up with an interesting storyline, etc.
There should be more of these. Plots that excite the player to be playing something uniquely different in a story but relatable to Pokemon unless the direction is to steer away from Pokemon (LoZ). Have a hack about zombies where you don't use pokemon but guns and the HP is based on your team and the enemy sprites are zombies of different types ... create a medieval hack where you are a slave and have to battle your way out of coliseums and gain your freedom or die, maybe you're a demon hunter sent to Hell to save a beloved one and have to defeat masterful beasts of great evil ... IDK it's really not that hard to brainstorm something better than "hey I'm 10 now give me a starter that is probably one of the starters of a gamefreak game".

Any thoughts on this? What do you guys think about this for plots? Do you want to see more unique storylines or do you like the simplisticness to 10yo stories?

Lmao I love you for this thread.
I legit just made a thread about that game I played a while back when only the first beta released and my description is exactly your game, gonna look for it right now.
It was amazing and seemed so promising, so much potential.

 

[GaraveL]

Well.. I absolutely agree with your all words. I only played Crystal(my first one) and FireRed. That's it. The other games are too repetitive. I mean it is more repetitive than GTA.

For example: when i walk around and then confront a trainer i expect some challenge. I mean i have a 36 lv Charizard then one trainer comes along and says '' I'm gonna beat you im best etc etc..'' Here i expect something different, something challenging. But in the end that trainer throws some 10lv caterpillar... Seriously?? And then there is badge thingy.. Same scenario, same dialogues. When you play your first poke game it's okay but then....No.

Same thing goes for the hacks too. With exception of Manga Based Chapter Adventures(it's manga based so it might be unfair compared to the other roms maybe?) and FloraSky, the other hacks i found too boring. i dont mean anything bad it's already hard to do a hack with the fact that you don't get paid to do. But it's always same you are ''chosen one'' or just boring same GameFreak scenarios with poor editing.

If i can survive this year(uni) i'm gonna try something different in summer.

 

[Ryu The Weredragon]

Let me put it in another way. Why not do both? The ACTUAL Reason for the badges is not for keeping people from trading supoer powerful Pokemon and plowing through the plot - it's an (admittedly rather obvious) use of flags, and as a way of marking your progress.

Even if you remove the gyms, the essentials would still be there. Any sufficient "boss" type area would be identical in function to a gym. So if you can figure something to use in place of gym badges to help a player mark their progress as you go along? I guess you can knock yourself out. If not-- unless the plot absolutely can NOT support it, what's the harm?

Also, I know that it's been said several times you didn't MEAN ten years old, but with that title, I don't think that anyone can be blamed for getting that idea - but I feel I have to nitpick: Actually, with the possible exception of Micheal, the minimum protagonist age in games was twelve (Red's age).

 

[machomuu]

Let me put it in another way. Why not do both? The ACTUAL Reason for the badges is not for keeping people from trading supoer powerful Pokemon and plowing through the plot - it's an (admittedly rather obvious) use of flags, and as a way of marking your progress.

Even if you remove the gyms, the essentials would still be there. Any sufficient "boss" type area would be identical in function to a gym. So if you can figure something to use in place of gym badges to help a player mark their progress as you go along? I guess you can knock yourself out. If not-- unless the plot absolutely can NOT support it, what's the harm?

Also, I know that it's been said several times you didn't MEAN ten years old, but with that title, I don't think that anyone can be blamed for getting that idea - but I feel I have to nitpick: Actually, with the possible exception of Micheal, the minimum protagonist age in games was twelve (Red's age).

While I- Red started his journey at 11.

While I agree with the bit about the title, I disagree about the gyms part, because that's not really how bosses traditionally work. In fact, gyms are something of an eccentricity that Pokemon has. But there are a bunch of ways to go around it. For instance, key items are one such way and using those as...marke- you really don't need markers of progress, the storytelling can do that on its own. Flagging events is another (which is more relevant in hacking where trading is rarely a priority).

Hell, again, looking at Touhoumon Gensokyo Scenario, the creator intended to do both of these things. After beating bosses and gaining the items that the plot called for, the game would indicate that on your Trainer area where the badges would normally be. The game does support this traditional form of storytelling.

---

Apart from that, this type of thinking:

unless the plot absolutely can NOT support it, what's the harm?

worries me. I would say that, unless gyms make sense within the world and you have a reason to care about them more than the plot or, contrarily, they're completely separate from the plot and are just something to do (as challenges, of sorts) then there's no problem. Or, alternatively, if there is a threat and the player, from a narrative standpoint, needs the gyms to become stronger to face such a threat.

I get a good little chuckle out of stories where Shadow Mewtwo is threatening to destroy the world and you are the one to- oh hey gyms. The main games are guilty about this, too, but in recent entries they've actually been trying to rectify this. Far too many hacks include gyms as a requirement without much logical reason behind why you need beat them, and this doubly the case for hacks where death and/or revenge is involved.