Suspect Discussion Thread [Stage 3-3] - Have fun in Banland, Garchomp (or not =/)

[Anti]

I've got to say, I'm not too keen on Garchomp, but that's more of a personal preference. I honestly think, considering just how close the vote was, that there should some sort of revote, or another test in the near future, because it's simply to close to say there's a decisive choice.

What exactly is a retest going to accomplish? The result isn't going to change. In fact, a higher percentage of people voted for Garchomp to be Uber than they did in Stage 3-1, and the only reason to retest would be a painfully obvious pro-OU bias to attempt to change the result. Furthermore, if a retest voted Garchomp OU, we would have at least one more Stage 3 test to do, all because the will of the voters was ignored. Lastly, I'm not exactly keen on the idea of bringing something into OU that was originally banned by a landslide and now has been voted Uber by a simply majority twice in a row when the metagame is supposedly better suited to deal with it. If there isn't a decisive choice, it's at the very least damn close to being Uber, and that's not a chance we should be taking, especially when the voters have spoken on this issue with the same result every single time.

tl;dr: Garchomp retest = bad idea/waste of time for no reason

Just read the stage 3-2 thread, apparently they are considering extending the test so that Manaphy and Latias are tested without Garchomp. =/

[/wrists]

Manaphy and Latias have been voted OU by crushing margins (Latias especially). It's really the same thing as above--what exactly is a retest going to accomplish? I guess it's okay to ensure that they aren't broken since it will be the OU ladder + Manaphy, but this process is really sluggish lol. The only REAL way we can find out if a suspect is Uber is if it is let loose on the standard ladder. It took a long time for Garchomp and Deoxys-S to get banned, but that ultimately gave us a result that in at least one case was obviously completely justified. I'm not enthusiastic about a Stage 3-3 and I don't think it's necessary or even the best option, but whatever happens I hope it gives us a good result and doesn't take forever.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Okay maybe I was exaggerating a bit on Rain teams dominating the OU metagame. But you have to admit Manaphy will be a neat new tool to people who like weather teams.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Since this fits in with the suspects.

Does anyone know a 100%/reliable Manaphy check ?

As in fits the following ;

- Is a good check or counter to ALL its sets (yes that includes WacanPhy)
- Isn't easy to wear down (Pursuit bait scarf rotom :/)
- Is actually reliable (no resters please)
- Doesn't suck (I.e Scarf Abomasnow or some junk).


Im struggling to come up with something that is decent. Only thing that i can think of is my S.Def Wish Roar Jolt. Which really isnt the best of things even though its done ok lol

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Jolteon obviously. I'd say Tyranitar and Abomasnow definetly do shut it down due to Sand Stream and Snow Warning.

 

[Anti]

Okay maybe I was exaggerating a bit on Rain teams dominating the OU metagame. But you have to admit Manaphy will be a neat new tool to people who like weather teams.

Yes but this has been a given all along lol.

Since this fits in with the suspects.

Does anyone know a 100%/reliable Manaphy check ?

As in fits the following ;

- Is a good check or counter to ALL its sets (yes that includes WacanPhy)
- Isn't easy to wear down (Pursuit bait scarf rotom :/)
- Is actually reliable (no resters please)
- Doesn't suck (I.e Scarf Abomasnow or some junk).


Im struggling to come up with something that is decent. Only thing that i can think of is my S.Def Wish Roar Jolt. Which really isnt the best of things even though its done ok lol

Well I mean just like other top threats nothing can beat all of Manaphy's sets just like nothing can beat every set Salamence or Lucario can use effectively. You'll basically have to use what you've been using like Roar Jolt...lol poor Ginger.

 

[Malicious Metang]

Oh yeah dude, Tyranitar is the best Manaphy counter ever!

Physical Ludicolo fits the requirements =)

 

[Leader Soulja Boy]

Well as a Trainer who uses Hail teams I can saw Abomasnow definetly will screw up Manaphy. Just switch in on it's Rest turn.

Though now that Manaphy is OU I may as well give a Rain team a try.

 

[BeachBoy]

Manaphy and Latias seem like OU pokemon to me.

Manaphy on paper seems powerful, but in all my experiences watching and battling, it's... underwhelming. Perhaps I've just witnessed people that really know how to take care of it or poorly utilize its potential on the other side? All in all, I can see it sticking around OU.

I think Latias is a great piece of glue for the metagame.

Can't comment on chomp because we all know how biased I am about it.


Lalalala~

 

[Archer]

Lastly, I'm not exactly keen on the idea of bringing something into OU that was originally banned by a landslide and now has been voted Uber by a simply majority twice in a row when the metagame is supposedly better suited to deal with it. [S-HIGHLIGHT]If there isn't a decisive choice, it's at the very least damn close to being Uber,[/S-HIGHLIGHT] and that's not a chance we should be taking, especially when the voters have spoken on this issue with the same result every single time.

tl;dr: Garchomp retest = bad idea/waste of time for no reason

Actually, I agree with you wholeheartedly, now. If they were going to move something based on a small majority, it might be another story, but fair enough. There's obviously reasonable doubt.

So how long until we'll be seeing Manaphy on the Standard Ladder?

 

[Anti]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=43&a=107

Discussion thread will be coming soon (though I'll probably just edit Garchomp out of this one and add Stage 3-2 results to the OP)

 

[FreakyLocz14]

So since Smogon's ladder will allow Manaphy, the PC ladder will follow suit, right?

 

[wolf]

Also, some Tiering Contributors have realized that we ideally should be testing Garchomp right now in Stage 3-3, since the Stage 3-1 environment in which it was tested (with Latios and Shaymin-S) is considerably different from the Stage 3-2 environment. While I realize this is not "ideal", it is probably the right thing to do. You will similarly be kept posted on our decision regarding this potential change.

Well, apparently Garchomp may return, and with the changes added to the suspect voting process this will probably be more accurate than Stage 3-2.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Well, apparently Garchomp may return, and with the changes added to the suspect voting process this will probably be more accurate than Stage 3-2.

Sounds like one big clustermuck to me. :/

I might make a Garchomp hyper offensive (< LOL terrible) team with the alt "Use Ice, Stop moaning"

;D

 

[Iceman3k]

Sounds like one big clustermuck to me. :/

I might make a Garchomp hyper offensive (< LOL terrible) team with the alt "Use Ice, Stop moaning"

;D

Yeah, it's not that hard to sacrifice and then revenge kill the thing, geez you 6-0 *****s, stop being difficult >=(
Also, Garchomp = instant Gyarados Terror (well with the right nub moveset lol)
EDIT: btw, now that Manaphy is OU now, and Latias still is, that basically means that Garchomp NEEDS to have OU Priviledges