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Tranquilo.
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That would be helpful, yes.
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That would be helpful, yes.
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Okay cool. I will def try that and thx for all your help.
I know I want to build a team loosely centered around sandstorm, but I'm not very experienced at building strategies other than hyper offense, and need a few pointers. I'm thinking I want to go with T-Tar, obvious choice. Thinking of poison heal gliscor as well, but I'm looking for a few ideas to get me going in the right direction for my first themed team. Thanks in advance.
Edit: thinking if running garchomp as well, perhaps aggron but that leaves me with a lot of potential megas
Edit: thinking if running garchomp as well, perhaps aggron but that leaves me with a lot of potential megas
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Anti
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disclaimer: all theorymon for this reply
Yeah I mean it's hard to give concrete suggestions with the tier in transition but I definitely wouldn't run Donphan. Rain, especially in the absence of Politoed, is all about making use of those Rain turns and keeping pressure on your opponent. Donphan is a tempo killer which is really gonna suck the life out of your team. I wouldn't lose sleep over sticking a spinner in as long as you're not relying too much on Tornadus for Rain or for defensive purposes (hnnng). I maybe consider running some Spex on Torn since Life Orb wears it down a lot. With Jirachi and Raikou gone, at least in theory, Specs Hurricane would really only be taken well by Mega Ampharos and Blissey, with most everything else being 3HKOed if they're lucky. Can be run with Hurricane/U-turn/insert two coverage moves here. Life Orb could work too, and you could still toss Rain Dance on it if you did that so long as you had a more reliable setter. I would definitely consider Grass Knot to hit Suicune since it can burn Swampert and powers up its Scalds with Rain.
Torn/Pert has good type synergy offensively and defensively. In terms of support, I would definitely have something that can break well, so Heracross seems fine, in theory. Its big selling point is threatening Suicune and breaking down stall (which Tornadus can sweep in the end-game if you play it well). With that, I would get a reliably Rain support/SR mon (in theory, you want this to have defensive capacity so you can set rain more than once, maybe something like Bronzong idk). Then you'll want a secondary abuser probably (Kingdra or the Toxicroak you had work) and then a glue Pokemon. I've never run Rain w/o Politoed so idk what I'm talking about tbh but I would definitely keep in mind that you're basically by necessity running HO.
Yeah so I'm not a huge fan of Dragonite, but I think that you can probably make a CB set work in the meta pretty well. Ignoring Jolteon since I'm afraid it is quite mediocre (PlatDude laid this out earlier), I would mostly be sure to have both defensive and offensive plans for Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill, and Sylveon. From there, it depends on what you want for your team.
If you're running HO, Gengar can switch into powerful Fairy STABs maybe once and forms a nice balance breaking core with Dragonite. Excadrill can Spin and threaten Fairies with Iron Head, though it seems an awkward fit to me.
One mon I think could be really cool which I would throw my recommendation toward is SD/BP/U-turn/Roost Mega Scizor. It has nice type synergy with Dragonite while also actually beating many mons that Nite struggles with (as opposed to just resisting their attacks) and adds another mon with priority. It gives a nice late-game win-con, even with just BP. U-turn isn't necessary, but it lets you keep pressure on Heatran (you'd want at least two teammates that can switch in and/or lure it) and especially Keldeo, where you can go straight into Dragonite and start firing off attacks. Lastly, it fills the defensive niche mentioned above of checking Fairies, even though you'll want secondary checks for Flamethrower Clef, BD Azum, and Altaria. (You really can't be too prepared for Fairies in this meta). Bulky Talon is one such mon, though by no means the only one, that can do this.
Raikou can replace Jolteon if you want an Electric.
I can't build the whole team for you, but hopefully that's a nice start.
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Tranquilo.
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Actually I've been starting on working a Mega Scizor that can check my Dragonite's weaknesses, and you pretty much outlined what I was planning on doing.
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I was on a stream just a bit ago and we got to talking about a mostly OU attacking wall team that would be super annoying to break but fun to play with. I've got a general idea for the composition of the team but i'm not sure what else to include exactly.
Altaria @ Altarianite
255 Attack, 252 speed, 4 Spdef Adamant
Return
Dragonclaw
Dragon Dance
Roost
Slowbro @ Leftovers
255 HP, 252 Defense, 4 spdef Bold, Regeneration
Slack Off
Psyshock
Calm Mind
Scald
Registeel @ Rocky Helmet
255 HP, 160 Attack, rest in spdef, Adamant
Stealth Rocks
Earth Quake
Ice Punch
Draining Punch
Chansey @ Eviolite
255 HP, 252 Defense, 4 spdef, Bold
Toxic
Softboiled
Seismic Toss
Heal Bell
Thundurus @ ((not sure what should be on it))
255 Spattack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Volt Switch
Focus Blast
Thats about as far as i've gotten on it and i'm not even sure this is exactly what i want to do with it. I've gone back and forth on using either Mega Metagross, Slowbro, or Altaria. Altaria ended up being what i chose for its bulkiness and it being a physical attacker with the ability to heal itself. The idea behind Thundorus was to give me the ability to have +1 Thunder Waves and Taunts for setup pokes. Maybe Gengar for the 6th slot? Gives me a bit more steel coverage with Focuss Blast and he can have Will o wisp since it isn't on anything else.
Altaria @ Altarianite
255 Attack, 252 speed, 4 Spdef Adamant
Return
Dragonclaw
Dragon Dance
Roost
Slowbro @ Leftovers
255 HP, 252 Defense, 4 spdef Bold, Regeneration
Slack Off
Psyshock
Calm Mind
Scald
Registeel @ Rocky Helmet
255 HP, 160 Attack, rest in spdef, Adamant
Stealth Rocks
Earth Quake
Ice Punch
Draining Punch
Chansey @ Eviolite
255 HP, 252 Defense, 4 spdef, Bold
Toxic
Softboiled
Seismic Toss
Heal Bell
Thundurus @ ((not sure what should be on it))
255 Spattack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Volt Switch
Focus Blast
Thats about as far as i've gotten on it and i'm not even sure this is exactly what i want to do with it. I've gone back and forth on using either Mega Metagross, Slowbro, or Altaria. Altaria ended up being what i chose for its bulkiness and it being a physical attacker with the ability to heal itself. The idea behind Thundorus was to give me the ability to have +1 Thunder Waves and Taunts for setup pokes. Maybe Gengar for the 6th slot? Gives me a bit more steel coverage with Focuss Blast and he can have Will o wisp since it isn't on anything else.
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PlatinumDude
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There's literally no reason to use Dragon Claw on Mega Altaria when Pixilate Return already hits Dragons super effectively:
-Dragon Dance
-Return
-Earthquake
-Roost/Fire Blast
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Altarianite
Registeel isn't that useful because it tends to be rather passive; also, it can't learn Drain Punch. Ferrothorn is the better option simply because it has Leech Seed to deter setup on it, while Skarmory has access to Defog for hazard removal and Whirlwind for phazing set uppers:
Ferrothorn:
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip/Protect
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Skarmory:
on Showdown!:
-Roost
-Defog
-Counter/Brave Bird
-Taunt/Whirlwind
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
on cartridge (because Defog Skarmory is hard to get a hold of in cartridge play):
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Whirlwind
-Roost
-Taunt/Brave Bird
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
Mega Slowbro is better at pulling off Calm Mind better than regular Slowbro because Shell Armor prevents an untimely critical hit from ruining its sweep. Regular Slowbro should stick to support roles:
-Scald
-Psyshock/Fire Blast/Foul Play/Ice Beam
-Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Slack Off
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/232 Def/24 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Chansey functions best on stall teams because of its passive nature; Sylveon or Clefable are better options because the former's offensive presence is better, while the latter can fare well in balanced teams:
Sylveon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell/Toxic
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Clefable:
-Moonblast
-Heal Bell/Thunder Wave
-Wish/Moonlight
-Protect/Stealth Rock
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Thundurus desperately needs Hidden Power Ice to hit Gliscor and Therian Landorus hard. Volt Switch isn't that useful on it; it doesn't have much space for a scouting move:
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Focus Blast/Psychic/Taunt
-Thunder Wave
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Gengar can act as a utility attacker, making it a neat option in the last slot:
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond/Taunt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
or
-Substitute
-Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Taunt/Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave/Disable
Nature: Timid
EVs: 28 HP/148 SAtk/80 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Black Sludge
or
-Hex
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb/Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 8 HP/248 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Black Sludge
Crady
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Been trying to get into Doubles lately... Here's something I came up with.
Can't seem to find the right mega, Tried Scizor and Beedrill. They work sometimes but... are... Eh.
I wanted to try M - Sableye but not sure how that would work.
Can't seem to find the right mega, Tried Scizor and Beedrill. They work sometimes but... are... Eh.
I wanted to try M - Sableye but not sure how that would work.
Spoiler:
srinator
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So I havnt really got the time to work on this a lot and I still can't find a suitable sixth member, I needed something that could lure Rotom wash in, and elf suggested staraptor but sadly I saw my whole team was walled skarmory and hence tried power herb solar beam Heatran, but it didn't really help much and the team didn't really do that well.
Hope u guys could help.
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Anti
return of the king
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Well, first off, I'm not quite sure what that Gyarados is doing there. I'm wondering if you could explain it a bit more? Actually, I'm generally a little confused by the parts, what they're trying to accomplish from a synergistic point of view, etc. Defensively you're not too bad off though Mega Gyarados is a big weakness, but it common defensive cores are a major problem. I would invest in a breaker for the last Pokemon. Will edit post later to give detailed suggestions (have to go now).
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gyarados is basically there to take on charizard y which i am very weak to,
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados in Sun: 113-133 (28.7 - 33.8%) -- 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados: 110-130 (27.9 - 33%) -- 90.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
etc.
srinator
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i know celebi takes care of it but the point of a lure so i can actually kill and not just force it to switch out, since exca cant touch it and i dont really like that situation sinc that p much my only speedy mon thanks to sand.
also tran doesnt like focus blast, so i woudnt really use it to beat chary esp since scarf tran would really not fit here.
also celebi most of the time switches in on rotom so it could just vswitch me on that turn and its not ever gonna switch on me, also 36 speed celebi already outspeed 40 speed rotom wash which is the most common so it can outspeed and beat all azumarills.
so i dont get how giving more speed ev's help.
Dark Azelf
☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
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Cant you use SD Liechi Berry Natural Gift Talon to Lure Rotom-W? (Base 100 power Grass move). Though really thats the least of your issues, Raptor lures in rotom-w anyway with DoublE-Edge/Return and Skarm walls your whole team lol.
Edit: Thunder Gyara really lol
Id sooner use Fire Blast + Toxic on Gyara and move Whirlwind to Hippo. Fire Blast lets you hit more stuff than Thunder and Toxic covers most of the other stuff you cant hit.
Edit: Thunder Gyara really lol
Id sooner use Fire Blast + Toxic on Gyara and move Whirlwind to Hippo. Fire Blast lets you hit more stuff than Thunder and Toxic covers most of the other stuff you cant hit.
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Anti
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my b i wasn't very clear with what i was asking. rather, i was asking for a process of how the team came to be, the intent behind the decisions, etc. (can be brief) since i'm just not seeing the synergy and i feel like having that information would allow me to better give advice without compromising what you want out of the team.
and yeah sorry again i was unclear but i was mostly referring to the "gentle thunder gyara" part.
but yeah to go into more detail now that i have time, i am going to assume that your core mons are exca and scizor here since the other mons are primarily support (though obviously hippo is pretty central since exca can't function w/o it). i think trying to use the last slot to lure rotom-w is somewhat flawed since the problem goes beyond rotom-w when very common mons typically seen on balance/bulky offense cores (which are p dominant atm) are gonna give you issues. for example, just think of what rotom-w is often paired with. let's say the core is rotom/landt/ferro. it's very common and it can lay hazards on you pretty much all day and exca can't really touch any of them, and while scizor has a better time, it's going to have a lot of trouble early game to do much of anything with bad initial power and limited coverage. plus keldeo is everywhere. speaking of keld, it is a big problem here - not for its offensive presence, which celebi and to a lesser extent gyara handle ok, but that it actually walls both of your main sweepers at full health. exca eq takes out a huge chunk but you won't be ohkoing it. hp fire latios just flat-out doesn't have a switch-in, and even those without can defog all day on you etc. if your opponent has a ferro it won't have too much of a problem keeping control of the match since again, scizor can switch in and set up but can't really get going in time for it to be more than the tactical victory of forcing ferro out. basically what i'm saying is you don't really have any balance breakers except scizor (but with no way to beat the mons that wall it).
so idk i mean you could throw in a lure/breaker but i think the exca/scizor core is fundamentally limited and has poor synergy offensively (not great defensive either). like, if you just threw on a mega gardevoir instead your offensive presence becomes so much more diversified and garde is a decent balance breaker if you can pressure the ferro/tran (you can always run earth power over psychic on celebi) and gives you a fighting chance vs. stall (mega sableye and even mew eats this team alive atm).
not trying to give you a trial by fire here but offense needs to have consistent offensive presence or you might as well run a defensive team. that's what i'm tryna get at with the questions here - what is the logic of the building? then i can give more constructive criticisms than what i've just given since i'll have a much better idea of what i should be fixing, though i do think that the fundamental flaw i've pointed out is correct. (choose between exca and scizor since running both necessitates running hippo or tar and then you're really putting a strain on the last few slots. unless you really wanna run the combo in which case i can hit the drawing board a bit but yeah that's my take.)
and yeah sorry again i was unclear but i was mostly referring to the "gentle thunder gyara" part.
but yeah to go into more detail now that i have time, i am going to assume that your core mons are exca and scizor here since the other mons are primarily support (though obviously hippo is pretty central since exca can't function w/o it). i think trying to use the last slot to lure rotom-w is somewhat flawed since the problem goes beyond rotom-w when very common mons typically seen on balance/bulky offense cores (which are p dominant atm) are gonna give you issues. for example, just think of what rotom-w is often paired with. let's say the core is rotom/landt/ferro. it's very common and it can lay hazards on you pretty much all day and exca can't really touch any of them, and while scizor has a better time, it's going to have a lot of trouble early game to do much of anything with bad initial power and limited coverage. plus keldeo is everywhere. speaking of keld, it is a big problem here - not for its offensive presence, which celebi and to a lesser extent gyara handle ok, but that it actually walls both of your main sweepers at full health. exca eq takes out a huge chunk but you won't be ohkoing it. hp fire latios just flat-out doesn't have a switch-in, and even those without can defog all day on you etc. if your opponent has a ferro it won't have too much of a problem keeping control of the match since again, scizor can switch in and set up but can't really get going in time for it to be more than the tactical victory of forcing ferro out. basically what i'm saying is you don't really have any balance breakers except scizor (but with no way to beat the mons that wall it).
so idk i mean you could throw in a lure/breaker but i think the exca/scizor core is fundamentally limited and has poor synergy offensively (not great defensive either). like, if you just threw on a mega gardevoir instead your offensive presence becomes so much more diversified and garde is a decent balance breaker if you can pressure the ferro/tran (you can always run earth power over psychic on celebi) and gives you a fighting chance vs. stall (mega sableye and even mew eats this team alive atm).
not trying to give you a trial by fire here but offense needs to have consistent offensive presence or you might as well run a defensive team. that's what i'm tryna get at with the questions here - what is the logic of the building? then i can give more constructive criticisms than what i've just given since i'll have a much better idea of what i should be fixing, though i do think that the fundamental flaw i've pointed out is correct. (choose between exca and scizor since running both necessitates running hippo or tar and then you're really putting a strain on the last few slots. unless you really wanna run the combo in which case i can hit the drawing board a bit but yeah that's my take.)
srinator
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Okay so originally I had
Chary- ttar-glisc-exca-celeb-suicune
This is p self explanatory since u helped me with this. I noticed that suicune wasn't helping me much and that I depended on exca more than char y to sweep. So If I want to concentrate on exca to sweep chary was becoming a more of an hindrance if anything, it also makes celebi weaker. I changed char y for a more bulky sweeper like mega Scizor who isn't uncommon in sand, can take dragon hits, has roost and comfortably set up a lot and sweep. Then the major Char y weakness, and it was really bad. So I used spdef gyara instead of suicune, I knew I was burn weak but I thought celebi could take them wisps. Sadly tho mega sableye is v annoying here. Also since wash sort of walls my sweepers and can easily burn them I was looking a lure, but I am always open to changing anything if it isn't really profitable.
Edit: AND OMG IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THUNDER WAVE GYARA STUPID TEAM BUILDER AAAAAA.
Chary- ttar-glisc-exca-celeb-suicune
This is p self explanatory since u helped me with this. I noticed that suicune wasn't helping me much and that I depended on exca more than char y to sweep. So If I want to concentrate on exca to sweep chary was becoming a more of an hindrance if anything, it also makes celebi weaker. I changed char y for a more bulky sweeper like mega Scizor who isn't uncommon in sand, can take dragon hits, has roost and comfortably set up a lot and sweep. Then the major Char y weakness, and it was really bad. So I used spdef gyara instead of suicune, I knew I was burn weak but I thought celebi could take them wisps. Sadly tho mega sableye is v annoying here. Also since wash sort of walls my sweepers and can easily burn them I was looking a lure, but I am always open to changing anything if it isn't really profitable.
Edit: AND OMG IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THUNDER WAVE GYARA STUPID TEAM BUILDER AAAAAA.
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srinator
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Okay so after discussing with anti....a lot.....the team looks like this
Heilme anti.
Spoiler:
Heil
Anti
return of the king
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hmm pretty bored w/ ou atm (just been playin it too much uu 4 lyfe) but building and theorymoning is fun so imma toss out something i've been thinking about.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: idek man max atk and then yolo
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Knock Off
i'll talk about the mates i'm thinking about in a minute, but yeah i was inspired to try this guy cause its uturns hit harder than anything else's except like mega beedrill or something but yeah i like its potential to wear away at very common balance mons (rotomw landt heatran ferro keld) that hate taking uturns, getting their item knocked off, or taking superpower. also very useful defensively since fairies are op af and it can check or rk then, plus priority is always really nice to have. idk it just struck me as a useful mon since a lot of teams rely on keld to check this (esp if they think it's mega sd) but
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 235-277 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(235, 238, 240, 243, 246, 249, 252, 254, 257, 260, 263, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277)
ruh roh
in terms of teammates i'll run through non-mega and mega considerations:
non-mega:
rotom-w: could go this route but would prefer to at least wait until later and see if it's the "right" vs mon for a voltturn or not. would prefer not to but not totally opposed to popping this guy in there.
garchomp: best offensive rocker money doesn't buy
azumarill: belly drum variant, bd azum has its issues but scizor actually supports it quite well. if i ran this i might consider pursuit since the latis can rk azumarill fairly easily.
sylveon: don't hate, appreciate. heatran isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world to lure w/ scizor and ferro isn't so bad either, and i like the it can dry pass and keep momentum. (spex just so we're clear.)
bisharp: guess who appreciates a weakened keldeo?
gengar: kinda sounds like a cool balance breaker and can wear down steels with sciz but i'm iffy on the synergy
mega:
gyarados: wow, let's see, appreciates weakened rotom/keld (or even dead ferro w/ a well-timed superpower i guess), effortlessly pivots into various scizor checks off a uturn (heatran land even keld though to hell w scald lol x_x), really nice mid game sweeper.
gardevoir: still a top of the line breaker and is way better vs stall than altaria, can weaken ferro and tran for scizor (!) and is an all-around baller. have my doubts that it's so much better than sylveon that i shouldn't run m gyara tho.
slowbro: would definitely take the team in a much bulkier direction but this is probably the most low-key ridiculous mon in the tier so i'll toss it in here for fun even tho gyara is a better fit.
i should probably get this out of the embryonic stages before posting but figured i'd post since i've been wanting to do a uturn team for awhile now (and not just the piss weak scarf lando-t variant) so thought i'd toss it out there, will probably have more solidified in a few days but feel free to offer suggestions.
if i had to commit this very second i'd roll with sylveon/sciz/mgyara i guess but not sure that's even good lol.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: idek man max atk and then yolo
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Knock Off
i'll talk about the mates i'm thinking about in a minute, but yeah i was inspired to try this guy cause its uturns hit harder than anything else's except like mega beedrill or something but yeah i like its potential to wear away at very common balance mons (rotomw landt heatran ferro keld) that hate taking uturns, getting their item knocked off, or taking superpower. also very useful defensively since fairies are op af and it can check or rk then, plus priority is always really nice to have. idk it just struck me as a useful mon since a lot of teams rely on keld to check this (esp if they think it's mega sd) but
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 235-277 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(235, 238, 240, 243, 246, 249, 252, 254, 257, 260, 263, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277)
ruh roh
in terms of teammates i'll run through non-mega and mega considerations:
non-mega:
rotom-w: could go this route but would prefer to at least wait until later and see if it's the "right" vs mon for a voltturn or not. would prefer not to but not totally opposed to popping this guy in there.
garchomp: best offensive rocker money doesn't buy
azumarill: belly drum variant, bd azum has its issues but scizor actually supports it quite well. if i ran this i might consider pursuit since the latis can rk azumarill fairly easily.
sylveon: don't hate, appreciate. heatran isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world to lure w/ scizor and ferro isn't so bad either, and i like the it can dry pass and keep momentum. (spex just so we're clear.)
bisharp: guess who appreciates a weakened keldeo?
gengar: kinda sounds like a cool balance breaker and can wear down steels with sciz but i'm iffy on the synergy
mega:
gyarados: wow, let's see, appreciates weakened rotom/keld (or even dead ferro w/ a well-timed superpower i guess), effortlessly pivots into various scizor checks off a uturn (heatran land even keld though to hell w scald lol x_x), really nice mid game sweeper.
gardevoir: still a top of the line breaker and is way better vs stall than altaria, can weaken ferro and tran for scizor (!) and is an all-around baller. have my doubts that it's so much better than sylveon that i shouldn't run m gyara tho.
slowbro: would definitely take the team in a much bulkier direction but this is probably the most low-key ridiculous mon in the tier so i'll toss it in here for fun even tho gyara is a better fit.
i should probably get this out of the embryonic stages before posting but figured i'd post since i've been wanting to do a uturn team for awhile now (and not just the piss weak scarf lando-t variant) so thought i'd toss it out there, will probably have more solidified in a few days but feel free to offer suggestions.
if i had to commit this very second i'd roll with sylveon/sciz/mgyara i guess but not sure that's even good lol.
Anti
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- Seen Mar 6, 2022
Oh yeah, this kinda died so I might as well revive it (omg double post op) with the team that came out of this core since I would describe the team as "very nice but not quite there yet" so it's pretty much in tweak mode but could use a facelift. It's really more geared toward suspect but can kinda-sorta hang with Mega Metagross I guess? Lol.
Many of y'all have faced this team, and if you have then you know I like to play it aggressively as I am not super confident in the defensive core. My suspect ladder record is 31-13 though I think the team's record is closer to 26-8 because I started on suspect with an offense team whose defensive stopper was MegaZard X haha, so you can guess how that went. Anyway, here's what I have:
Slowbro (M) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
The old post explains why I like Mega Slowbro so much, but let's just say that he's a really terrifying win condition. I think in practice the only thing I have been annoyed with is that, if he doesn't get Scald burns (which *would* happen to me), breaking iffy pseudo-checks like Ferrothorn and Rotom-W does get a bit more difficult. I have this paired with Healing Wish support (spoiler alert) which allows me to play it very aggressively early on, which is nice. Even though it can be stopped, I kind of find this to be a BS poke tbh. :/
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 12 SpA / 208 SpD / 40 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Toxic
I tossed in Heatran for SR support, a kinda-sorta Talonflame check, a little status, and much-needed special bulk. I'm not a huge fan of Heatran but he does his job pretty well and closes some gaps on the team. I would be open to a replacement here. Oh, and idek about the EVs. I think they all just made the numbers pretty (like 300 satk or something?) so don't ask.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn
I actually removed this for a bit because Hurricane's accuracy kept costing me games. No matter: I still love his Speed, utility, and ability to grab momentum, even though I really wish that Hurricane didn't suck. He's a great early game breaker against some teams as well though I wouldn't say it's as good as the mixed Defiant Thundurus I enjoyed spamming in XY. The big thing with Tornadus is that he can safely switch into Serperior and especially Celebi and get me back momentum. It allows me to play Slowbro aggressively and not fear an incoming vegetable mon. sry sims.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
I always use this mon lol. It's just too useful. I liked the idea of dual CM with MegaBro, and her utility actually supports Slowbro nicely, especially on the status absorption front. Otherwise, it can spread status, somewhat alleviate the pressure from weak VoltTurns, and checks numerous Pokemon or can at least prevent them from sweeping, because Fairy type is insane. Thunder Wave gets the nod over Flamethrower because I find it more useful defensively and for Heatran, though given how spotty this team is against fast Mega Scizor, I think Flamethrower is a fair choice even though Heatran can check it if it gets paralyzed.
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
Ehhhh I feel like the metagame has started to adapt to this guy a bit (as evidenced by the rise of Celebi, Starmie, etc.) and I find it less effective than I did when ORAS started. Even so, this is my primary stall-breaker (translation: stall is a difficult matchup for me) and still puts pressure on a lot of teams and checks Scizor and Bisharp, though not all that well. I feel like this is where my team building got a tiniest bit lazy.
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
- Healing Wish
This guy has actually been really clutch and is a great synergy mon. For some reason, I find people to be more careful about coverage moves when playing vs. Latios than Latias, so I've found HP Fire to be a surprisingly effective Scizor/Ferro lure. It provides a *badly* needed Electric resist and a good switch-in to Charizard Y and non-SubMind Keld I guess. The real story here is Healing Wish, which is usually when I make my move in a game and corner my opponent. Often I find that teams can check any one of my CM sweepers but not all that well, so I can weaken them and then come back for round two. This is especially true of MegaBro who can actually beat/severely maim some of its checks 1v1 but is left at really low health (think vs. like LO Thund or something) which effectively kills Slowbro since it's too slow to recover on anything. Healing Wish changes that equation, which is awesome.
Okay so here are the issues I want to have fixed:
- Fairies: For a suspect ladder team you'd think I'd be better against these guys, but nah, Clefable can completely shut me down (Slowbro is not the best Clef check in the world, I'll just say that) and my Mega Diancie check is uhhh Slowbro lol? I can survive, but it's not ideal. Oh, and don't even get me started on Azumarill, who I basically just sacrifice mons to.
- VoltTurn: Oh look, balance is super popular and VoltTurn mons like Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Mag are really common, and they check the mon I'm building around! BRB I'm going to make myself obnoxiously weak to this strategy.
- Stall: I can outplay this match-up, but it requires really sound execution.
- Mega Pinsir: I have literally not seen a single one of these, but lol.
These flaws haven't been crippling becauseI am a prodigy they can be played around to various degrees and I have four Pokemon that are really frightening win-cons on their own, which gives me tremendous in-game flexibility. I feel like the build is just a little flabby, meaning that I'm not quite making efficient use of my team slots. I've been stuck on what exactly I should be shifting around. Suggestions welcome etc.
As for Band Scizor I ran him with a few different builds and just found him to be a liiiittle too slow and too frail (or perhaps easy to wear down) than I would have liked, and while the advantages I mentioned were there, I just found it to be iffy on the whole. Oh well not every idea can take off. ;(
Many of y'all have faced this team, and if you have then you know I like to play it aggressively as I am not super confident in the defensive core. My suspect ladder record is 31-13 though I think the team's record is closer to 26-8 because I started on suspect with an offense team whose defensive stopper was MegaZard X haha, so you can guess how that went. Anyway, here's what I have:
Slowbro (M) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
The old post explains why I like Mega Slowbro so much, but let's just say that he's a really terrifying win condition. I think in practice the only thing I have been annoyed with is that, if he doesn't get Scald burns (which *would* happen to me), breaking iffy pseudo-checks like Ferrothorn and Rotom-W does get a bit more difficult. I have this paired with Healing Wish support (spoiler alert) which allows me to play it very aggressively early on, which is nice. Even though it can be stopped, I kind of find this to be a BS poke tbh. :/
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 12 SpA / 208 SpD / 40 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Toxic
I tossed in Heatran for SR support, a kinda-sorta Talonflame check, a little status, and much-needed special bulk. I'm not a huge fan of Heatran but he does his job pretty well and closes some gaps on the team. I would be open to a replacement here. Oh, and idek about the EVs. I think they all just made the numbers pretty (like 300 satk or something?) so don't ask.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn
I actually removed this for a bit because Hurricane's accuracy kept costing me games. No matter: I still love his Speed, utility, and ability to grab momentum, even though I really wish that Hurricane didn't suck. He's a great early game breaker against some teams as well though I wouldn't say it's as good as the mixed Defiant Thundurus I enjoyed spamming in XY. The big thing with Tornadus is that he can safely switch into Serperior and especially Celebi and get me back momentum. It allows me to play Slowbro aggressively and not fear an incoming vegetable mon. sry sims.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
I always use this mon lol. It's just too useful. I liked the idea of dual CM with MegaBro, and her utility actually supports Slowbro nicely, especially on the status absorption front. Otherwise, it can spread status, somewhat alleviate the pressure from weak VoltTurns, and checks numerous Pokemon or can at least prevent them from sweeping, because Fairy type is insane. Thunder Wave gets the nod over Flamethrower because I find it more useful defensively and for Heatran, though given how spotty this team is against fast Mega Scizor, I think Flamethrower is a fair choice even though Heatran can check it if it gets paralyzed.
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
Ehhhh I feel like the metagame has started to adapt to this guy a bit (as evidenced by the rise of Celebi, Starmie, etc.) and I find it less effective than I did when ORAS started. Even so, this is my primary stall-breaker (translation: stall is a difficult matchup for me) and still puts pressure on a lot of teams and checks Scizor and Bisharp, though not all that well. I feel like this is where my team building got a tiniest bit lazy.
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
- Healing Wish
This guy has actually been really clutch and is a great synergy mon. For some reason, I find people to be more careful about coverage moves when playing vs. Latios than Latias, so I've found HP Fire to be a surprisingly effective Scizor/Ferro lure. It provides a *badly* needed Electric resist and a good switch-in to Charizard Y and non-SubMind Keld I guess. The real story here is Healing Wish, which is usually when I make my move in a game and corner my opponent. Often I find that teams can check any one of my CM sweepers but not all that well, so I can weaken them and then come back for round two. This is especially true of MegaBro who can actually beat/severely maim some of its checks 1v1 but is left at really low health (think vs. like LO Thund or something) which effectively kills Slowbro since it's too slow to recover on anything. Healing Wish changes that equation, which is awesome.
Okay so here are the issues I want to have fixed:
- Fairies: For a suspect ladder team you'd think I'd be better against these guys, but nah, Clefable can completely shut me down (Slowbro is not the best Clef check in the world, I'll just say that) and my Mega Diancie check is uhhh Slowbro lol? I can survive, but it's not ideal. Oh, and don't even get me started on Azumarill, who I basically just sacrifice mons to.
- VoltTurn: Oh look, balance is super popular and VoltTurn mons like Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Mag are really common, and they check the mon I'm building around! BRB I'm going to make myself obnoxiously weak to this strategy.
- Stall: I can outplay this match-up, but it requires really sound execution.
- Mega Pinsir: I have literally not seen a single one of these, but lol.
These flaws haven't been crippling because
As for Band Scizor I ran him with a few different builds and just found him to be a liiiittle too slow and too frail (or perhaps easy to wear down) than I would have liked, and while the advantages I mentioned were there, I just found it to be iffy on the whole. Oh well not every idea can take off. ;(
Detox
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So I was considering building around Sheer Force Gatr earlier, but I was preoccupied with other things and forgot about it until now. This thread needs more love so I thought that I'd see what you good people think that I should do.
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
Crunch is there simply because Mega/non Mega Slowbro is one of the most common things people will switch into Gatr, and any amount of damage I can get off of him is appreciated. I opted for an adamant nature because honestly jolly is just so underwhelming, even after a boost. Gatr has no way to break bulky waters, so any suggestions for a partner that helps out there would be gladly appreciated. I was also considering some sort of SD+ Baton Pass Celebi but in hindsight that sounds like a very horrible idea. Ferrothorn is also a problem since I do not plan to run Superpower, and I am considering running Spikes in conjunction with Stealth Rock to soften things up for my guy.
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
Crunch is there simply because Mega/non Mega Slowbro is one of the most common things people will switch into Gatr, and any amount of damage I can get off of him is appreciated. I opted for an adamant nature because honestly jolly is just so underwhelming, even after a boost. Gatr has no way to break bulky waters, so any suggestions for a partner that helps out there would be gladly appreciated. I was also considering some sort of SD+ Baton Pass Celebi but in hindsight that sounds like a very horrible idea. Ferrothorn is also a problem since I do not plan to run Superpower, and I am considering running Spikes in conjunction with Stealth Rock to soften things up for my guy.
srinator
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specs zone sounds cool since it can deal with bulky waters and also kill ferro, scizor etc. all you need now is 25 counters for croagunk ;]
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