The Ash-Greninja Elephant In The Room

[Frozocrone]

Well now I want Serena Delphox and Clemont Chesnaught :/ Don't really like pandering towards certain Pokemon.

But eh, I do like the fact we have a demo to tide us over, won't be too upset about Greninja being included.

 

[Esper]

Doesn't seem right that they don't give something to Delphox and Chesnaught as well.

Plus, Ash-Greninja's got awful hair. Frogs shouldn't have hair.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

This piece of info could explain things:

 

[kingdenas]

Completely against it! C'mon ... Ash doesn't even appear in the games... Plus, the fact that its named ASH-Greninja and that its design resembles Ash, makes me feel I don't own the Greninja.. It feels like I'm just borrowing it from Ash ...

 

[mew_nani]

So... is this confirmation Ash is going to lose Greninja as the anime closes? Maybe Hoopa shows up and opens a wormhole and Greninja figures out what's up and decides to ditch Ash and come hang out with a real trainer instead instead of being forever doomed to cameo roles and being replaced by new Pokemon like he's just a Rattata or something.

I can't really say I'm that bothered by it though it's unclear how he can still change form without Ash present. We could probably take better care of him than Ash could anyway, and really he's more or less gonna end up in a better place where he can be fed and groomed and trained to his heart's content. I wish Chesnaught and Delphox got a similar form but eh, with writers like these what can you do.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I actually like Ash-Greninja. I'm not so bothered by the name thing. Kind of ironic since I disliked plain Greninja back when it was first leaked :P.

 

[Rivvon]

I really don't understand why some people are upset, not to mention a handful of people don't even explain why, They just say they hate it.

I for one love Ash-Greninja in the games. And this could indicate that Chesnaught and Delphox could get something similar later on. They did the same exact thing with Blaziken. People were upset because Blaziken got a mega and the others didn't, however, they already had plans for the other 2 starters. Just like they may have plans for the other two Kalos starters.

Ash-Greninja is very clearly something from the anime--an anime that most people don't particularly like. So that's part of the reason why people don't like it. Also, in regards to Delphox and Chesnaught getting "something similar," well, did they get something similar in the anime? Since this is 1:1 an anime reference, it would stand to reason that if the other Kalos starters got something similar, it would also be from the anime. But to my knowledge, no such things exist. In that way, it's not similar to Blaziken at all--Mega Blaziken was going to be a thing eventually, an all-new design to be featured in ORAS along with the other Hoenn starters, but they decided to give early buyers of XY access to it via event. Does it appear as thought Serena-Delphox and Clemont-Chesnaught will happen any time soon in the anime? If not, I don't think these situations are quite comparable.

I don't think it makes Ash canon in the games. Hell, they basically made Alain canon in ORAS, so why can't they make Ash canon? Red and Ash are not the same people. They can easily coincide with each other. They don't look like each other at all. I just don't see a problem with it.

It's not "coinciding with Red" that people take issue with; people just don't like Ash and don't want him getting anywhere near the games. Personally, I don't blame them.

They said it all comes together. I think this is what the partially meant. This isn't the first time they have crossed anime stuff over into the games.

It would be pretty awful if "it all comes together" meant the anime and games came together, rather than the different generations themselves came together.

 

[Afterglow Ampharos]

This piece of info could explain things:

So, when in the trailer footage, it reads "Greninja became fully charged due to its bond with its Trainer," does it mean Ash as the trainer, or the game player character as the trainer?

If the former, it doesn't make sense, because Ash is not here and Greninja is changing mid-battle.

If the latter, it still doesn't make sense, because bonding with the game's protagonist would not give Greninja silly Ash hair.

I'm not objecting to the concept of human bonding so much as I am that Greninja is clearly adopting Ash's hairstyle, when it should be the game protagonist.
Think about it: Greninja transforming into Ash-Greninja when Ash is nowhere to be found in this game. The whole thing is absurd on the face of it.

 

[Keromatsu]

Yeah I'm interested to hear this as well, especially since it's called Ash-Greninja. Interested to see what reason they give for it!

I think it was bound to happen to, especially given Greninja's popularity. But yeah I'm just most surprised about its name I guess. Ash-Greninja makes the most sense but Ash hasn't been mentioned in-game before, I believe.

On the official website on the page called "Play the Demo" it says "A Poke Ball containing a Greninja from a certain someone. An adventure - Separate from those in Pokemon Sun or Pokemon Moon---- is about to begin!" That means they are acknowledging that "other universe" theory thing. XD

EDIT: Pinkie-Dawn already pointed that out. Man it's been so long since I've been here that I forget to check if something is already been done.

 

[Jason Wolf]

it's just weird because this literally has to be ash's pokemon.

 

[Afterglow Ampharos]

That's quite the transformation.

Nevermind me, just making fun of http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon/ 's choice of formatting.

 

[Caaethil]

People are really getting riled up over the most irrelevant things, aren't they? I really don't understand these complaints at all. Ash is canon now, probably through multiverse. Who cares? Why does it matter? Because the purity of the games is now ruined by the anime? Frankly, that's a bit of a petty complaint in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you don't like the anime does not and should not have any bearing on the anime's relevance.

As for other proposed plot holes, a few notes. First, Greninja doesn't magically lose Ash-Greninja form when another trainer uses it. Second, it's Pokemon. Nothing makes sense (even though this does). If I can breed a level 1 Heracross and mega evolve it, I can use Ash-Greninja. It's not really a stretch.

 

[Afterglow Ampharos]

irst, Greninja doesn't magically lose Ash-Greninja form when another trainer uses it. Second, it's Pokemon. Nothing makes sense (even though this does). If I can breed a level 1 Heracross and mega evolve it, I can use Ash-Greninja. It's not really a stretch.

Yes, but Greninja needs Ash's presence. The in-game text even mentions its bond with its trainer, in the middle of battle.

Also

Ash apparently just gave his prized Pokemon away to some scrub wearing a pirate shirt

Spoiler:

 

[Caaethil]

Yes, but Greninja needs Ash's presence. The in-game text even mentions its bond with its trainer, in the middle of battle.

Also

Ash apparently just gave his prized Pokemon away to some scrub wearing a pirate shirt

Spoiler:

Greninja does not require Ash's presence to transform. We know this because the player gets Ash-Greninja. People keep repeating that Greninja needs Ash but this obviously proves that's not true. People just assumed that because Ash-Greninja looks like Ash and is associated with Ash.

'Its trainer' could be a general term for whoever owns it. It doesn't necessarily mean only Ash. The only question here is why it keep's Ash's appearance, which you could easily just say is because it achieved that bond with Ash first or something.

Also, you don't know why the player has Ash-Greninja, so it's a bit unfair to make judgements on the stupidity of the decision on Ash's part. Can't you wait two weeks to find out and then make a decision? For all we know Greninja falls from the sky with a sticky note stuck on his hand saying "Remember Greninja, don't fall through random holes or you might end up in another universe where a random trainer will have to take you. -Ash"

 

[mew_nani]

Yes, but Greninja needs Ash's presence. The in-game text even mentions its bond with its trainer, in the middle of battle.

Also

Ash apparently just gave his prized Pokemon away to some scrub wearing a pirate shirt

Spoiler:

To be fair Ash just giving away his prized Pokemon or releasing them because the plot demands it isn't exactly that rare. How many Pokemon has he let slip through his fingers over the years? Ash Greninja was nothing more than a ploy to get people hyped and now it's 15 minutes of fame is up so they need to get rid of it as quickly as possible like a serial killer ditching a body by the side of the road so Ash can be reset to factory settings once the Sun and Moon anime starts. "Let's toss it into the demo and give it to the player! Who cares if it makes sense? They're just kids they won't care!"

Honestly I'm not sure how it'll be justified in game. Maybe he's remembering Ash, and because of that he transforms? Maybe he's got a lock of Ash's hair hidden under his tongue? Either way it's not exactly a bum deal for him as he'll never be held back by plot armor or Mega Charizard X ever again.

 

[MegaKuriboh]

I don't entirely mind Ash-Greninja being in the games. While I hate that it's called "Ash-Greninja" and that it implies Ash is in this canon (I don't want the Games canon and Anime canon to overlap. Giovanni in the games isn't the same as Giovanni in the anime for example. Yellow version is an exception although all it really does is add the Team Rocket Trio which doesn't interfere with anything), I'm a big Greninja fan and I really love it's design (my friend even got me an Ash-Greninja plush) and the fact that you get it from the demo and not the actual main game makes it non-canon, so I don't really mind. It's like the special event Pokemon, they serve no purpose other than to give you cool things to battle with, they don't interfere with the actual lore of the games (which is why I'm glad it's his ability and not some Synchro/Z-Form nonsense. Plus it's a neat little thing for kids who don't understand that the games and the anime are in separate universes and they can feel like their hero Ash using his special Greninja, so that's a thing.

He does seem pretty broken though, i mean he likely gets a Mega-esk powerup (100+ to his BST) and Protean Greninjas are already broken. I hope he gets more of a boost to his physical attack because Greninja is mostly a special attacker and it would be neat to be able to give him a physical moveset (Including his signature, Water Jet no jitsu).

Tl;dr. I don't like the cross between Anime and Games lore but this seems to be non-canon, plus I love Greninja so I'm 100% okay with this!

 

[Kotone]

it's kind of random that they're adding the ash-greninja in this game. i think they should start adding all the special pokemon like ritchie's pikachu!

i am excited though to be getting the ash-greninja. it does look cool, but he ash isn't in the game!

 

[Ewery1]

Warning, uncensored cursing below. This is my reaction.

Spoiler:

 

[CidHazard]

I'd rather call it Bond-Greninja/Gekouga really... It doesn't make sense to call it Satoshi-Gekouga or Ash-Greninja if Satoshi/Ash isn't it's trainer (Cause the name implies that it is Satoshi's Gekouga hence the name.)

I can see Gekouga having a signiture Z-Move as well... Being that giant mizu shuriken.

If they somehow factor the upcoming anime episode story to the demo that would be insane XD

Also hope that the Mafoxy and Brigarron get their own bond - forms (But that seems likely to pass T_T)

 

[CidHazard]

He does seem pretty broken though, i mean he likely gets a Mega-esk powerup (100+ to his BST) and Protean Greninjas are already broken. I hope he gets more of a boost to his physical attack because Greninja is mostly a special attacker and it would be neat to be able to give him a physical moveset (Including his signature, Water Jet no jitsu).

Isn't the only thing making Greninja broken is his Protean ability and his 103 base special coupled with life orb. Without protean Greninjas ability to nutral OHK isn't really that high... Not to mention that you have to actually K.O a Pokemon to actually activate the ability. Added with greninjas frailty and the dark typing I think it would be hard for him to make an impact early on (He would be an amazing late game sweeper in singles tho :D)

Still...

With the exclusions of Mega Evolutions in favor of Z-moves in the upcoming VGC rules and if the Greninja line is included in the Aloladex... Greninja is shaping up to be the only mega-ish evolution to be allowed in the tournament(This is assuming that he still gets 100+ base stats) and the addition of better double support moves and abilities... I would think that building a Bond-Greninja team would be viable.

*Cough* Z-move Evee baton pass to Greninja *Cough*