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Speculation The Constant Rumors that Ash Ketchum will be leaving the Anime after Journeys

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  • I can't see Goh becoming the new protagonist though that's just me personally? He has a cute design but I think he's too much of a walking advertisement for the GO mobile app that it wouldn't make sense for him to represent the series as a whole - or that's how I feel (partially, at least). I love Ash but wouldn't mind a new protagonist since he's had a very solid run at this point and will achieve his major goal of battling and (possibly) beating Leon by the end of Journeys. Not going to be against him staying or anything though; there're just so many possibilities they can explore with a new protagonist. Which it seems like they've already been doing to an extent with all the side episodes they've releaed lately. Maybe it's testing the waters of a new character?

    Journeys as a whole seems like it's been concluding everyone's goals. A lot of the returning characters have completed their goals or are on their way, (spoilers for JN123)
    Spoiler:
    , etc etc. It just really seems like this series wants to wrap up everything for the characters shown up until this point.. or the ones they could have return, at least. We'll see if this actually does signal a brand new series with new characters after though.
     

    The Mega Champion

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  • Sure, Pokémon GO might not be as popular as it was in 2016, but that doesn't mean that they can't reference Pokémon GO with a character in their anime. Pokémon Let's Go is a game that was great for the small children and the Pokémon anime targets the children. Personally, I wouldn't mind it if Goh was the main character of Pokémon. To be honest, I think he would be better than Ash was. Nothing is stopping the creators from making him actually battle the Pokémon he catches if he becomes the main character and considering that he's caught a lot of powerful Pokémon, he could be a better trainer than Ash too. The only thing Ash really has to his name is that he was on a losing streak in the Pokémon League in almost every region for the past 20 years, which is sad. In my opinion, a protagonist that disappointing should definitely be replaced.

    There are a lot of hypotheticals and what ifs in this post.

    Ash is a good character. Goh is not. The end.
     

    Sweet Serenity

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  • There are a lot of hypotheticals and what ifs in this post.

    No "what if" or "hypotheticals," just a difference of opinion.

    Ash is a good character. Goh is not. The end.

    I disagree. Ash is trash. It took him 21 years to finally win a real championship. On top of that, he did it in a Pokémon League that wasn't even developed yet. How is a character that has been losing every match that counted for the past 20 years a "good character?" As for Goh, he has caught a total of 117 Pokémon, all in one anime series, whereas Ash only caught 83 throughout his entire 20+ year existence. I'd take Goh over Ash any day of the week. However, I don't necessarily think it has to be Goh that replaces him. I just feel that the anime would be better off with Ash gone period because he sucks.
     
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    The Mega Champion

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  • No wonder Digimon is an overall better franchise in general. It's just unfortunate that they are published by a company that now simp for an overall overrated franchise that's basically a .hack ripoff (which I do still technically like but I'm just saying)

    If they had the proper support... they'd would have and would be kicking Pokemon's ass right now
     

    Duck

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    I disagree. Ash is trash. It took him 21 years to finally win a real championship. On top of that, he did it in a Pokémon League that wasn't even developed yet. How is a character that has been losing every match that counted for the past 20 years a "good character?"

    While I'm not particularly fond of Ash either, I don't think you're doing a fair comparison here.

    Even if we ignore the fact that counting the time it got him to win a championship when God (the writers / producers) was pretty much pulling strings to see him fail and that any other character would also fail in that situation, is a bit weird, there are some other things to consider here.

    In Kanto, Ash lost because he was a newbie trainer that didn't have the respect of Charizard.

    In Johto, Ash lost to a more experienced trainer who was advertising the next region. That's both an example of God pulling strings (the production team had a vested interest in letting Hoenn shine since it was the next region and they need to market that / write a reason to let Ash want to go there) and a sensible loss (Harrison was just more experienced).

    In Sinnoh, Tobias happened. That was blatant writer intervention and we all know it. Nobody was expected to be able to beat a team of legendaries in the anime. The fact that Ash managed to beat one was already enough of an accomplishment since iirc nobody else managed to do it: Tobias beat all of his other battles in clean 6-0 sweeps (outside of Cynthia / E4, I guess, since he isn't the Sinnoh champion).

    In Kalos, Ash was a runner up against Alain, one of the Top 8 trainers in the world as of the current season, in a controversial loss that many feel is due to writer intervention. But even if we disagree regarding that, only narrowly losing to a Top 8 trainer in the world, is not a bad performance at all.

    (Ash also won in the Orange Islands btw, so he didn't lose every time it mattered.)

    Also, we need to consider that Ash was effectively challenging himself for most of those regions. With the exception of Johto and the Orange Islands, he started from (almost scratch) every time while his opponents presumably kept the same team since forever, give or take a few changes. Being able to retrain a full team of Pokémon from zero in time to the tournament and do reasonably well is in and of itself an accomplishment.

    So really, with the possible exception of Hoenn and Unova, most of those losses are either expected within the story, and the ones that aren't have some specific circumstances to them that go away when you only say "It's a loss".

    Ash isn't a real person and so he isn't the master of his own destiny. He still ultimately has to do whatever the writers tell him to do, and considering the major plot of the anime for the first 6 or so regions was "Ash is going around the region to prove himself and become a Pokémon Master", having Ash prove himself and become champion would more or less conclude Ash's story arc.

    The problem is that the anime doesn't want to conclude Ash's arc because he's iconic and having to start over with a new protagonist (and a new mascot, unless the new protagonist, also used Pikachu) would be losing a lot of brand awareness. In fact, it could be argued that the only reason Ash was allowed to win the Alola championship was because fans were extremely pissed that he lost Kalos' and so the producers decided to throw the fanbase a bone.

    But none of that really matters because:

    As for Goh, he has caught a total of 117 Pokémon, all in one anime series, whereas Ash only caught 83 throughout his entire 20+ year existence. I'd take Goh over Ash any day of the week. However, I don't necessarily think it has to be Goh that replaces him. I just feel that the anime would be better off with Ash gone period because he sucks.

    This reeks of a "Line goes up" mentality which is a bit uncomfortable when applied to character and media analysis.

    I could talk about how Goh catching a Pokémon is treated very differently than Ash catching a Pokémon, so Goh has the writers on his side and Ash doesn't.

    I could talk about Ash never really wanted to catch a lot of Pokemon to begin with (his goal is to become stronger, having quality over quantity is a perfectly reasonable strategy) so this is a baseless comparison to begin with.

    But the main problem I have with your talking point is that ... those numbers don't really mean a lot when people are talking whether a character is good or not? It completely ignores story arcs, decisions, personality, whether they're hated or loved by the writers, character design and so on.

    You're saying something analogous to "Kakashi has used at least 1000 ninja techniques throughout the series while Naruto only learned 6 or 7, so Kakashi would be a better protagonist than Naruto, who sucks." or "Goku has a power level of 10,000 while Gohan only has a power level of 6,000, therefore Goku is a good character and a better protagonist than Gohan, which is a bad character." or "Josuke needed a kid to help him beat his protagonist while Giorno didn't really, so Giorno is a better protagonist than Josuke."

    Those statements all make comparisons that seem like they'd be meaningful at first glance, but aren't really. Kakashi would never be able to do half the things that Naruto did, Goku and Gohan are both popular protagonists with different arcs and Josuke had a vastly different villain to beat compared to Giorno and that kid being there made for a more compelling resolution to the story than the way Giorno dealt with his villain.

    A character can be more successful than another character in a given metric but that doesn't mean they're better, it just means they do better in that given metric. A character who loses can be a more compelling and beloved character than someone who wins all the time, as an example, most people would take Jesse and/or James, who exist to lose, over Tobias, who has never lost, any day of the week because Tobias isn't a good character despite winning.
     
    Last edited:
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  • I disagree. Ash is trash. It took him 21 years to finally win a real championship. On top of that, he did it in a Pokémon League that wasn't even developed yet. How is a character that has been losing every match that counted for the past 20 years a "good character?" As for Goh, he has caught a total of 117 Pokémon, all in one anime series, whereas Ash only caught 83 throughout his entire 20+ year existence. I'd take Goh over Ash any day of the week. However, I don't necessarily think it has to be Goh that replaces him. I just feel that the anime would be better off with Ash gone period because he sucks.

    Well there is more to someone's character than, in this case, being able to catch some Pokémon and win a league. In fact you've not really commented on anything meaningful on why Ash's 'character' is bad and therefore he sucks. The above post has kindly gone into more detail as to why but essentially I agree - a character that has no struggle i.e. wins everything, is great at everything and the such just... isn't really that compelling to watch over a timespam such as that of the Pokémon anime.

    That said, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to Ash being replaced, just not sure going to Goh as OP has mentioned is really the best choice, both in the sense of replacing Ash with a worse character and not a good choice for keeping the show popular.
     

    Sweet Serenity

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  • Well there is more to someone's character than, in this case, being able to catch some Pokémon and win a league. In fact you've not really commented on anything meaningful on why Ash's 'character' is bad and therefore he sucks. The above post has kindly gone into more detail as to why but essentially I agree - a character that has no struggle i.e. wins everything, is great at everything and the such just... isn't really that compelling to watch over a timespam such as that of the Pokémon anime.

    That said, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to Ash being replaced, just not sure going to Goh as OP has mentioned is really the best choice, both in the sense of replacing Ash with a worse character and not a good choice for keeping the show popular.

    Alright, I have no problem providing more detail for my reasoning.

    I never said that Ash's character was bad. In terms of his character as a person, he has many great traits, such as him loving his Pokémon, caring for other Pokémon, supporting his friends all the way, being funny, and the determination to pursue his goals without surrendering. However, when I say that Ash sucks, I'm referring to his skills as a Pokémon trainer. The entire motto of Pokémon was to "catch them all." Even the early theme song captured Ash's goal, which was to be "the very best like no one ever was." "To catch them is my real test; to train them is my cause." Despite this, Ash typically makes the most boneheaded mistakes in the series, preventing him from living up to the theme song. He still struggles with basic type-matchups that every trainer should understand. For example, even in the latest series in the match against Rinto, Ash thought it would be a good idea to take on Rinto's Psychic/Fighting-type Gallade with his Fighting-type Galarian Farfetch'd, which gives him a huge type disadvantage. The fact that he is still doing this even in today's series shows that he isn't learning from his experiences. Despite this single example, Ash makes similar mistakes to this throughout the entire series. It shows that, despite Ash by some miracle being able to acquire all the gym badges in each region, he still doesn't learn from experience, which constantly results in him losing every big match that counts. This is where catching more Pokémon becomes more important. If Ash caught more Pokémon at a similar rate to Goh, he would have more Pokémon at his disposal, which gives him a better chance to counter the opponent's Pokémon by utilizing better type matchups.

    Yet, if Ash struggles to catch Pokémon at a higher rate, then he is likely to continue struggling in major battles because he would be forced to use the same Pokémon in battle, which only increases the odds of him battling at a type disadvantage. That's personally why I think Goh is better in that regard and has more potential as a trainer. Even if Goh isn't that experienced of a trainer in battles, Goh definitely has the potential to be better than Ash if he ever got more battle experience because he has much more Pokémon in his arsenal that could cover any given situation, combined with the ability to catch almost anything without even battling it. With the right story arc centered around him, Goh has the potential to be a force to be reckoned with if he ever did replace Ash. More importantly, Ash sucks because he can't win when it counts the most. Many of Ash's badges were given to him out of pity early on, or simply out of gratitude for doing the gym leader a favor such as helping him or her out with a major life issue or saving the day from Team Rocket. This resulted in him making it to the Pokémon League with practically no skill or experience whatsoever and getting destroyed. He got better as the series went on and won more badges based on his merit in battle as opposed to pity and/or doing favors, but he still often entered gyms and challenged their leaders by making the same mistakes that he should have avoided based on experience from his previous adventures. This resulted in him losing many of those matches, but winning a rematch.

    Moreover, Ash typically releases or boxes many of his good Pokémon. Many of Ash's good Pokémon that contributed well to his past Pokémon League experiences are still boxed and often never seen again. If Ash was a good trainer, then he would study what Pokémon the gym leaders and Elite Four use and select a good team based upon every Pokémon that he ever caught and trained. Instead, throughout much of his adventures, he attempted to win big matches with Pokémon that weren't fully-evolved and without doing his research. Also, him not using every Pokémon in his arsenal only increased the odds of him having bad type-matchups as I said earlier. However, to Ash's credit, he isn't completely horrible. He has consistently shown his ability to defeat and blast off Team Rocket, which he does in practically every episode, and when facing random trainers on routes, he typically wins by innovating some unique combos. He also won the Orange Islands league. However, a great trainer has to be better than simply beating Team Rocket repetitively and random trainers that challenge him. Also, the Orange Islands only existed as a filler arc and doesn't exist in the games in any form or fashion. The problem with Ash is that compared to every other hero that is a main character, be it on TV, video games, books, or fiction in general, I don't think I've ever seen a protagonist lose when it counts as often as Ash loses. Even if a protagonist struggles to win, he or she nonetheless learns from the experience, dusts himself or herself off, and win big when it counts. Maybe I just don't watch enough TV and I'm the fool here, but I don't think I am.

    It seems that the writers are at least trying to do him some justice by having him compete in a world series this time. However, they either have to let him win it all and become number one in the world to redeem himself for losing as long as he has, or they're just better off replacing him. To me, it would be better to simply replace him rather than having him lose again. If he does, what's stopping the writers from making him stay a perpetual preteen and lose big matches for another 20 years? That's why I strongly believed that Pokémon should have had Ash win it all in Kanto and replaced him afterwards with the other protagonists from the other games. For example, the Johto series should have starred Ethan and Kris, Hoenn series Brendan and May, Sinnoh series Dawn and Lucas, and so on. Ash still could have been admired by the other protagonists and other trainers as a Pokémon master and made occasional appearances for big events to keep the nostalgia going. Yet, they completely missed this opportunity, which is why I can't imagine Ash being replaced this late, even though he should be replaced.
     

    Duck

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    I never said that Ash's character was bad. In terms of his character as a person, he has many great traits, such as him loving his Pokémon, caring for other Pokémon, supporting his friends all the way, being funny, and the determination to pursue his goals without surrendering. However, when I say that Ash sucks, I'm referring to his skills as a Pokémon trainer. The entire motto of Pokémon was to "catch them all." Even the early theme song captured Ash's goal, which was to be "the very best like no one ever was." "To catch them is my real test; to train them is my cause." Despite this, Ash typically makes the most boneheaded mistakes in the series, preventing him from living up to the theme song. He still struggles with basic type-matchups that every trainer should understand. For example, even in the latest series in the match against Rinto, Ash thought it would be a good idea to take on Rinto's Psychic/Fighting-type Gallade with his Fighting-type Galarian Farfetch'd, which gives him a huge type disadvantage. The fact that he is still doing this even in today's series shows that he isn't learning from his experiences. Despite this single example, Ash makes similar mistakes to this throughout the entire series. It shows that, despite Ash by some miracle being able to acquire all the gym badges in each region, he still doesn't learn from experience, which constantly results in him losing every big match that counts. This is where catching more Pokémon becomes more important. If Ash caught more Pokémon at a similar rate to Goh, he would have more Pokémon at his disposal, which gives him a better chance to counter the opponent's Pokémon by utilizing better type matchups.

    I think you have too much of a game lens instead of an anime lens here.

    It's been established, again and again that type effectiveness matters a lot less in the anime than it does in the games.

    There has been many times where Ash used moves that were supposed to be immune but dealt damage, times where moves that were supposed to deal massive dealt little damage, and moves that were supposed to deal some damage were rendered ineffective.

    Yet, if Ash struggles to catch Pokémon at a higher rate, then he is likely to continue struggling in major battles because he would be forced to use the same Pokémon in battle, which only increases the odds of him battling at a type disadvantage. That's personally why I think Goh is better in that regard and has more potential as a trainer. Even if Goh isn't that experienced of a trainer in battles, Goh definitely has the potential to be better than Ash if he ever got more battle experience because he has much more Pokémon in his arsenal that could cover any given situation, combined with the ability to catch almost anything without even battling it. With the right story arc centered around him, Goh has the potential to be a force to be reckoned with if he ever did replace Ash. More importantly, Ash sucks because he can't win when it counts the most. Many of Ash's badges were given to him out of pity early on, or simply out of gratitude for doing the gym leader a favor such as helping him or her out with a major life issue or saving the day from Team Rocket. This resulted in him making it to the Pokémon League with practically no skill or experience whatsoever and getting destroyed. He got better as the series went on and won more badges based on his merit in battle as opposed to pity and/or doing favors, but he still often entered gyms and challenged their leaders by making the same mistakes that he should have avoided based on experience from his previous adventures. This resulted in him losing many of those matches, but winning a rematch.

    Okay but like, Goh is a very atypical person both from a games perspective (where most people get one team and stick with it until forever basically) and from an anime perspective (where catching a Pokemon is usually seen as a big deal and people usually stick around with their Pokemon until the end).

    Goh or Ash or whoever switching Pokemon explicitly to beat whoever would ultimately go against one of the major themes of the anime which is "Stick with your partners".

    And that would be yet another problem because

    Moreover, Ash typically releases or boxes many of his good Pokémon. Many of Ash's good Pokémon that contributed well to his past Pokémon League experiences are still boxed and often never seen again. If Ash was a good trainer, then he would study what Pokémon the gym leaders and Elite Four use and select a good team based upon every Pokémon that he ever caught and trained. Instead, throughout much of his adventures, he attempted to win big matches with Pokémon that weren't fully-evolved and without doing his research. Also, him not using every Pokémon in his arsenal only increased the odds of him having bad type-matchups as I said earlier. However, to Ash's credit, he isn't completely horrible. He has consistently shown his ability to defeat and blast off Team Rocket, which he does in practically every episode, and when facing random trainers on routes, he typically wins by innovating some unique combos. He also won the Orange Islands league. However, a great trainer has to be better than simply beating Team Rocket repetitively and random trainers that challenge him. Also, the Orange Islands only existed as a filler arc and doesn't exist in the games in any form or fashion. The problem with Ash is that compared to every other hero that is a main character, be it on TV, video games, books, or fiction in general, I don't think I've ever seen a protagonist lose when it counts as often as Ash loses. Even if a protagonist struggles to win, he or she nonetheless learns from the experience, dusts himself or herself off, and win big when it counts. Maybe I just don't watch enough TV and I'm the fool here, but I don't think I am.

    This focus on "good Pokemon" probably comes from your competitive background where there are in fact meta tiers, but the anime has gone out of their way to criticize said players (Paul in DPP was very much the kind of trainer describing here, and he was seen as the antagonist of the season, who had a heel face turn after they lost).

    The problem doesn't seem to be that you don't watch enough TV, is that you're trying to apply game rules and game logic to the anime, where they just don't work out.

    As an example, Ash walked up to Viola with Pikachu and Fletchling against Surskit and Vivillon. He had the type advantage and if it were the main series he probably would have won. But he lost, because anime strategies care less about type effectiveness. He eventually trained some more and beat her again, this time focusing on beating her strategies (which he already knew because of his previous time battling her).

    It's a different way of thinking that boils down more to "What would be compelling to watch and support the themes we want to get across?" instead of "What is the min max strategy?". Ash beating gym leaders by the skin of his teeth makes for a lot more exciting television than walking up to say, Viola, with a Charizard and just Blast Burning everything in sight.

    This is also part of the reason why Ash doesn't just use older, evolved, Pokémon by the way. That'd cause quite a beating to any kind of narrative tension because they'd likely be a lot stronger than the alternative, or leave a bitter taste in the fans mouths, because they'd inevitably have to be shown as weaker than they actually are to keep any sort of stakes.

    Another reason is that a lot of those Pokemon have complete arcs and bringing them back on screen would take up space that could be used for another story or let another Pokemon (say, one of the current region) shine.

    It seems that the writers are at least trying to do him some justice by having him compete in a world series this time. However, they either have to let him win it all and become number one in the world to redeem himself for losing as long as he has, or they're just better off replacing him. To me, it would be better to simply replace him rather than having him lose again. If he does, what's stopping the writers from making him stay a perpetual preteen and lose big matches for another 20 years? That's why I strongly believed that Pokémon should have had Ash win it all in Kanto and replaced him afterwards with the other protagonists from the other games. For example, the Johto series should have starred Ethan and Kris, Hoenn series Brendan and May, Sinnoh series Dawn and Lucas, and so on. Ash still could have been admired by the other protagonists and other trainers as a Pokémon master and made occasional appearances for big events to keep the nostalgia going. Yet, they completely missed this opportunity, which is why I can't imagine Ash being replaced this late, even though he should be replaced.

    Sure, a lot of people would agree that Ash should have his arc completed and give the torch to a new protagonist. It is a shame that the Pokemon anime didn't go with the Digimon / YuGiOh approach to anime and just do that from time to time.

    And considering the way they've been testing the waters lately with new anime miniseries, and how Journeys have a "finale" vibe, I think the producers are considering the idea.

    It's probably for the best too, because Scarlet and Violet have a very school, newbie trainer vibe which would be a retread of anime Alola.
     

    Sweet Serenity

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  • I think you have too much of a game lens instead of an anime lens here.

    It's been established, again and again that type effectiveness matters a lot less in the anime than it does in the games.

    There has been many times where Ash used moves that were supposed to be immune but dealt damage, times where moves that were supposed to deal massive dealt little damage, and moves that were supposed to deal some damage were rendered ineffective.

    The Pokémon anime is simply badly written then, or at least different episodes are written by different writers that may not understand type matchups too well. Many characters in the anime acknowledge type effectiveness and characters have called out Ash for not understanding them several times, which proves that type effectiveness still matters in the anime in some form or fashion. Even in instances where type effectiveness does matter, I have witnessed Ash make mistakes that he shouldn't have made, such as having his Pikachu use Electric-type moves against several Ground-type Pokémon and doing no damage whatsoever.

    Okay but like, Goh is a very atypical person both from a games perspective (where most people get one team and stick with it until forever basically) and from an anime perspective (where catching a Pokemon is usually seen as a big deal and people usually stick around with their Pokemon until the end).

    Goh or Ash or whoever switching Pokemon explicitly to beat whoever would ultimately go against one of the major themes of the anime which is "Stick with your partners".

    Ash choosing to rotate the use of certain Pokémon for specific battles does not defy the anime's theme of sticking with one's partners. Ash could still travel with such Pokémon, train them, help them with whatever issues they're having, and when it's time to battle, he could simply use different teams for different situations. This would be better and smarter than using the exact same team repetitively that would only increase the chances of putting him at disadvantage.

    This focus on "good Pokemon" probably comes from your competitive background where there are in fact meta tiers, but the anime has gone out of their way to criticize said players (Paul in DPP was very much the kind of trainer describing here, and he was seen as the antagonist of the season, who had a heel face turn after they lost).

    Yet, that's not what I mean. When I mention "good Pokémon," I'm referring to Ash's Pokémon that actually made an impact in the Pokémon League that he competed in at the time. For example, Ash's Kingler, if I'm not mistaken, was undefeated when it competed in the Kanto Pokémon League, and was only defeated once in the entire series afterwards. Despite this, Ash never used Kingler again after that and it has been boxed in Professor Oak's lab ever since. Instead of using fully-evolved Pokémon such as these with a proven good track record, Ash instead chooses to use new Pokémon from the region he visited, which are often poorly trained and not fully-evolved. As for Paul, he was more than a trainer that valued strong Pokémon. He was also a very disrespectful person that treated his own Pokémon like trash and often disrespected other people. That's why he was mostly seen as a villain character.

    It's a different way of thinking that boils down more to "What would be compelling to watch and support the themes we want to get across?" instead of "What is the min max strategy?". Ash beating gym leaders by the skin of his teeth makes for a lot more exciting television than walking up to say, Viola, with a Charizard and just Blast Burning everything in sight.

    If the goal was to create more compelling television, then replacing Ash entirely would have made more sense logically. Logically speaking, at this point in Ash's career, he would have had, at the very least, 40 gym badges, solidifying his status as an All-Star Pokémon trainer. Him struggling to defeat an early gym leader would have made no logical sense when considering the caliber of trainer that he is, as one ought to expect Ash to simply use his Charizard to Blast Burn everything at this point. Instead, it would have simply made more sense to have Calem and/or Sareena start their journey in Kalos rather than Ash. As rookie trainers, it would have made more sense for them to struggle against Viola than Ash.

    This is also part of the reason why Ash doesn't just use older, evolved, Pokémon by the way. That'd cause quite a beating to any kind of narrative tension because they'd likely be a lot stronger than the alternative, or leave a bitter taste in the fans mouths, because they'd inevitably have to be shown as weaker than they actually are to keep any sort of stakes.

    This doesn't have to be true. An alternative could be that the gym leaders could have strong Pokémon with coverage moves that could give Ash's older and evolved Pokémon a better fight. For example, if Ash takes on a Water-type gym, naturally, Ash would do his research and challenge such gym with Electric and Grass-type Pokémon. Instead of making Ash's Pokémon weaker to paint a narrative, the writers could instead make the gym leader's Pokémon strong as well and give them powerful Ground and Ice-type coverage moves to make the match challenging and exciting. That way, all Pokémon still look strong, Ash looks smart and like he's learning something and trying to be careful, and the battles could still be close while making sense at the same time, which could still tell a great story and make for more compelling TV.

    Another reason is that a lot of those Pokemon have complete arcs and bringing them back on screen would take up space that could be used for another story or let another Pokemon (say, one of the current region) shine.

    The best way to solve this issue is to have certain Pokémon in Ash's arsenal exist for certain roles. That's better than completely boxing an older Pokémon and completely forgetting about it.

    Sure, a lot of people would agree that Ash should have his arc completed and give the torch to a new protagonist. It is a shame that the Pokemon anime didn't go with the Digimon / YuGiOh approach to anime and just do that from time to time.

    Definitely. I really feel that they dropped the ball with that. Funny that you mentioned Yu-Gi-Oh!. Yugi is a great example of a great hero that wins when it counts. Yugi won practically every major tournament or duel that would result in him saving the world. He also barely lost duels despite many of them being very close, and whenever he did lose, it was always very surprising because no one ever expected Yugi to lose. I don't see why Ash couldn't be more like Yugi.
     
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    The Mega Champion

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  • I'm not discussing this further... (seriously I'm not) but if Ash goes... that's fine.

    But I'd rather have a hard reboot with a completely new cast of characters than Goh as MC

    I may have already said this. But I'm saying it again.
     

    Duck

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    The Pokémon anime is simply badly written then,
    Oh yeah, pretty much.

    Pokemon is pretty much the My Little Pony of shounen anime. For ages it was basically a way to get people invested in buying some other kind of merchandise (in MLP's case, toys, in Pokemon's case, the games and toys) and it only started to have serious effort put in the writing in the later years.

    But while MLP gets a reboot every so often, Pokemon tried to have "soft reboots" where they really want you to forget that the previous regions existed (outside of maybe a cameo or another) but kept the character because Ash is a household name while someone like Brendan or Calem aren't, so we're stuck with the tonal clashes and plot holes and stuff like that.

    Like, it can be fun to watch and meme and stuff but writing quality was very much not a concern until like Kalos, I think. I think the writing staff legit forgot that Ash had Kingler and/or Muk during that final battle (or any sixth Pokemon after Butterfree left, really). Or like 30 Tauroses sitting in the Pokebox.

    Definitely. I really feel that they dropped the ball with that. Funny that you mentioned Yu-Gi-Oh!. Yugi is a great example of a great hero that wins when it counts. Yugi won practically every major tournament or duel that would result in him saving the world. He also barely lost duels despite many of them being very close, and whenever he did lose, it was always very surprising because no one ever expected Yugi to lose. I don't see why Ash couldn't be more like Yugi.

    I could write a saga about the problems with Yu-Gi-Oh writing, and why Yugi isn't really a great hero and why he actually has a terrible win record, but here's not really the place for it. That said, I do agree that the protagonists of Yu-Gi-Oh (barring like Yuuya) do fit the mold of what you'd expect from a shounen protagonist better than Ash does.
     

    The Mega Champion

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  • I probably shouldn't be reviving this thread but oh well. Whatever. I'm in a 'I don't care' mood right now.

    Looks like I'm going to end up right. Color me shocked. Because of a certain thing that just happened in Journeys.

    Journeys will be my personal series finale because there's practically no doubt at this point Goh is going to be the new MC and that's all kinds of BS and nonsense.

    HARD REBOOT.

    No?

    Then I'm done.
     
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    I'm not really expecting Gou to take over. An anime all about catching Pokémon would be rather boring to watch.
     

    Palamon

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  • I'm pretty sure that, at this point, the anime is just going to end. I heard there's production troubles. So, at this point, we probably won't even be getting a new season, anyway.
     

    Iceshadow3317

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  • I'm pretty sure that, at this point, the anime is just going to end. I heard there's production troubles. So, at this point, we probably won't even be getting a new season, anyway.

    Not sure about that. I feel like if this was the final season, they would have already told us it was ending. And while I am surprised we still haven't gotten a trailer or something, that may also be because they are hiding stuff. The only production troubles there has been is covid related that I know of and that was all anime. The entire world of anime is on fire right now for various reasons.

    Also.... Pokemon SV spoilers from datamine:
    Spoiler:


    So I really just don't see it ending, especially since it is still a heavy hitting series. And at this point, it is basically promoting the games.
     

    The Mega Champion

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  • I'm pretty sure that, at this point, the anime is just going to end. I heard there's production troubles. So, at this point, we probably won't even be getting a new season, anyway.

    I'd probably prefer this option over shit ass Goh from taking over as well
     

    Palamon

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  • Not sure about that. I feel like if this was the final season, they would have already told us it was ending. And while I am surprised we still haven't gotten a trailer or something, that may also be because they are hiding stuff. The only production troubles there has been is covid related that I know of and that was all anime. The entire world of anime is on fire right now for various reasons.

    Also.... Pokemon SV spoilers from datamine:
    Spoiler:


    So I really just don't see it ending, especially since it is still a heavy hitting series. And at this point, it is basically promoting the games.

    Hearing conflicting things from that particular Pikachu hat datamine, though, honestly.
    & I heard they don't have enough staff and that's why there's been weeks off & recaps. So, I really do think that's this might be the end.

    Usually, the new anime starts the same week the games come out, and the final episode of journeys... Sounds very final episode to me.

    Even so, I doubt Ash will leave if the anime does continue.
     

    Iceshadow3317

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  • Hearing conflicting things from that particular Pikachu hat datamine, though, honestly.
    & I heard they don't have enough staff and that's why there's been weeks off & recaps. So, I really do think that's this might be the end.

    Usually, the new anime starts the same week the games come out, and the final episode of journeys... Sounds very final episode to me.

    Even so, I doubt Ash will leave if the anime does continue.

    Yeah just read more about the anime stuff. Although it sounds like a normal thing for Japan. Very possible that they could take a break and restart. I haven't read anything else about the Pikachu thing. Though I've detached myself away from the leaks community so I don't see story stuff. Recap stuff I thought was normal. We always had recaps near the end of a series, but sometimes the English didn't always dub those, as well as the 1 off episodes.

    I honestly feel like the Pokemon Company wants to make a new series since we have had so many animated episodes online from Arceus to the Poketoons, all in which have been amazing.
     

    Iceshadow3317

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  • According to an article, the Pokemon Executives have confirmed that Ash is staying with the anime. However, they are being secretive at what they are doing next. They will make the announcement with the next episode.

    There is an episode beyond the episode called, 'Pokemon Glad We Met.' called, "Ash and Goh Set Off Anew." So it is possible they are keeping the Journeys format. But that is not confirmed. Nor is it confirmed if Goh is staying. Only Ash has been confirmed thus far.
     
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