The Iraq War

[Richard Wagner]

Let's get one thing straight.

First, people getting all huffy and puffy about Nancy Pelosi knowing about torture is a big fat joke. Of course she knew about it - just like the whole Republican administration knew about it. The hypocrisy of it now is that they want Nancy Pelosi to be first on the witness stand, as opposed to Dick Cheney and Condoleeza Rice, who actually authorized the torture. The people who are pointing fingers at Pelosi are really just trying to hide their own sins.

Anyway, none of that really matters. As I've said before, any thickhead can realize that torture is absolutely hopeless when it comes to gathering intelligence. The tortured person will say (read: make up) anything to get the torture to stop . If you think otherwise, well, you're one of the many uninformed ignoramuses still prattling on about how "If it saves lives...."

The Bush adminstration wasn't stupid enough to expect accurate intelligence from torture - they wanted false confessions that would tie Al-Qaeda to Iraq, including that Iraq had WMD's.

That way, national security could be the cover story for the reality, which is that the Iraq War was about oil. Sadaam Hussein was a threat to the US oil supply. The Iraq war was about the stability of the global economy.

I just want people to realize that. Also, there is no security threat from the photos that Obama has not released that didn't already exist. The people advising him on the issue, General Patraeus and General Odierno, were high in the chain of command during the Bush administration. The pictures would show that the abuse is systemic, and thus, not just the result of a few bad apples, but were orders from the top.

I also want to say that people who are speaking ill of Nancy Pelosi for accusing the CIA of lying.....are an absolute joke. The facts are that the Republicans accused the CIA of flawed intelligence after no WMD's were found in Iraq, as well as when the CIA said that Iran was not building a nuclear weapon.

 

[Aurafire]

Thanks for informing us I guess? Or you know, you can let people draw their own conclusions instead of forcing your opinions down our throats as if they were the absolute truth. Kthanx.

How does any of what you said about the Pelosi situation make her any less guilty of falsely accusing the CIA of misleading her in regards to the "torture" of those suspects? This isn't about guilt over who made the decision...It's about Pelosi lying to the American people and blaming a government organization for her decisions, which she obviously has to cover up for so as not to anger her own party. It would be swell if she could just admit that she was fully briefed about the "torture" and apologize...

And what sin? I hardly consider waterboarding three terror suspects a sin, and I'm sure neither do Cheney or Rice. This was in the post 9/11 era, when our country's security was of the utmost importance to everyone, especially the government. It was a different time, when we were living in fear of another attack. So perhaps what you consider to be a sin during out time was thought of as a necessary action five or six years ago.

For the record, Nancy Pelosi is an absolute joke and a disgrace to our government. How a woman like that became third in line for the presidency is beyond me. I hope she at least has to common sense to apologise for her accusations, and if not, she should resign (here's hoping).

 

[Richard Wagner]

Well, I guess your counter-assertion that the guilt of whoever made the decision to illegally start a war and justify it with false confessions elicited through illegal interrogation procedures is not as aggregious as Nancy Pelosi lying about the CIA briefing, is your own opinion.


With regards to Pelosi stepping down -- the thing is, the people who are demanding Pelosi apologize (which, factually speaking are mostly Republicans, the most assertive right now being Newt Gingrich), are the same people who said that the CIA misled the Bush adminstration about there being nuclear weapons in IRaq, and there NOT being nuclear weapons in Iran. If Pelosi is a joke, well, they must be professional comedians - they accused the CIA misled them on two separate occassions.

The point that Pelosi lied is not the bulk of what they're after - it's that she insulted the intelligence community - which is exactly what they have done over the past 8 years or so. Unfortunately, the news media never seems to connect the dots, despite that they reported on those previous accusations against the CIA.

I just find it absurd that Pelosi gets even worse press than the people whose guilt far outweighs her own, overall. In the case of Cheney and Rice, exponentially.

 

[Aurafire]

Haha, well said sir. You do make some good points. I just didn't really like the way you came off is all =/

I guess we just have different perspectives on the issue. I don't believe that the past faults of the CIA or the Bush Administration take away from the argument that Pelosi was dead wrong and lied to everyone. I still think she needs to apologize.