The Redundancy of Gym Leaders? How Can it be Fixed?

[Superfox]

So, am I the only one who thinks that Gym Leaders are getting a bit redundant. Its always the same thing generation after generation: a random assortment of types in different orders. However, with only 18 types, there are only so many combinations of eight they can present. Plus, every time they present a gym leader with the same type as a previous one, it has a way of diluting the uniqueness of that type. At this point, it seems that their withholding from creating a Dark-type gym is the only thing keeping the whole Gym dynamic fresh.

So, the question here is, how would you fix this problem? Would you just keep creating more types? Would you create gyms that specialize in a specific type combination, like a gym user that only uses Water/Ground types or one that uses only Grass/Poison types? Would you move away from types and create gyms that deal in other themes, like say egg categories or those based on specific animals (like a monkey pokémon gym where the leader uses Primape, Infernape, Simisage, etc.)?

So, what would you do?

 

[Origin Green]

This might be controversial to suggest and it'd never happen but...

Mix it up about? Remove gyms, change to formular for once? I'm not a hater, I'm a MASSIVE lover of pokemon, but it'd be refreshing if they tried something new!

 

[Ephemeral Euphoria]

I would have gyms focus on specific play styles rather than types in all honesty.

 

[Superfox]

This might be controversial to suggest and it'd never happen but...

Mix it up about? Remove gyms, change to formular for once? I'm not a hater, I'm a MASSIVE lover of pokemon, but it'd be refreshing if they tried something new!

That actually sounds like a good idea. The problem then would just be that they'd have to find another way for trainers to level up and a different story structure. Any suggestions?

 

[Origin Green]

That actually sounds like a good idea. The problem then would just be that they'd have to find another way for trainers to level up and a different story structure. Any suggestions?

Hmmm, gym leaders and badges DO prevent over levelling...

Only thing I can think of is perhaps across the trainers journey, he finds special (unmissable) items that could be plot related that act similarly to badges...

As for the levelling, maybe we could have special, uncatchable forms of pokemon that serve as bosses? Kinda like shadow luigia?.. I'm pulling at straws here, it's just an idea..

 

[Megan]

I think additional rules could be interesting. Like if the gym leader has rock types you are not allowed to use Pokemon that have an advantage like water, or grass types. The gym leader could even use specific strategies, like stall in a steel type gym.

Of course that would mean they had to drastically improve the AI or else it won't work so well. You should be able to adjust the difficulty, too or else kids start complaining about the games becoming too hard.

 

[moon]

Just moving this thread over to Pokémon Gaming Central since it seems to suggest possible changes for the games mostly.

-moved

 

[Yato]

I remember reading a rumor about two new Pokemon games, Plus and Minus, where some of the gyms had themes. For example, one Gym Leader used only Baby Pokemon, another used multiple types, one specialized in Sky Battles, and so forth. I definitely feel that having themed gyms rather than just Monotype gyms would be better.

Another possibility is to have not all gym challenges be battles. In the Orange Islands saga of the anime, Ash did not always battle the leaders. He raced in the first two gyms, did a series of sportsy events that involved his Pokemon before battling in the third gym, and had a double battle (iirc) in the fourth. In other words, the various gyms could specialize in sporty events with maybe one that requires battling. And, to make things more difficult, things like a Pokemon's level, moves, etc. will still come into play so the Trainer isn't completely reliant on luck or skill in such challenges.

A this possibility is to let the Trainer choose what path they'd like to take (e.g., if they want to remain a Trainer or become a Coordinator, Breeder, member of the evil organization, a mix, etc.), and implement various goals.

 

[Pepperton]

Gym challenges are supposed to be the embodiment of one of the main cores of Pokemon - battling other trainers and training your Pokemon. It's one of the most important things in the franchise, and it's worked relatively well. Some types have gotten a bit repetitive, like Rock being the first Gym in 3 of the 6 generations. As Pokemon improved over the years, it alleviated this problem by giving more personality to the leaders in order to set them apart from previous leaders with the same type. I actually don't mind the current gym system, haha. n__n;

 

[XtinaIsMeLuvinWWE]

I guess it can seem a bit formulaic given that it is a prominent feature of each game but it's one of the things I look forward to most in the game :) I guess the thing I'd change would be to maybe give the Gym Leaders more of a storyline or at least a deeper background within the games so its more rewarding when you face them :)

 

[Dr. Silver]

I guess it can seem a bit formulaic given that it is a prominent feature of each game but it's one of the things I look forward to most in the game :) I guess the thing I'd change would be to maybe give the Gym Leaders more of a storyline or at least a deeper background within the games so its more rewarding when you face them :)

All of this!

I am sick to death of Gym Leaders just sitting inside their Gym and rarely having an impact on the plot! I don't understand how Gen VI managed to take a giant step back when it came to the Gym Leaders, having two Gym Leaders doing something important doesn't make up for the other six staying in all day.

Gen VI was so bad with this that I, for the first time, was able to march into a Gym, steamroll the place without healing and abusing type weakness, destroy the Gym Leader, leave, and then immediately forget the name of the Psychic Gym Leader.

I hope that Gym Leaders actually start taking a more active role within the story as they are supposed to be some kind of authority figure after all. I'm not hopeful for Alpha/Omega as they're remakes and thus would want to stay close to the story, but the next installments of games had better make up for Gen VI's lack of interesting characters.

 

[Nah]

Like Pepperton said, gym battles are a major part of one of the major aspects of the franchise: battling. I'd very much like to keep the battling and monotype aspects of gyms intact. However, perhaps they could make the Gyms about more than just battling? Put in some serious puzzles and test you in other ways than your battle skills? IDK. And ♥♥♥♥in' A Game Freak, put in a Dark type gym already. They should've done that in Gen 5, but they were like "nooooooooope, let's make it an Elite 4 type, AGAIN."

 

[Monte Blanc]

The Gym Leader dynamic has become a sort of staple to the main game formula. They represent hurdles you have to overcome, often allowing you to access the next area only after their defeat.

The tradition of each Leader being proficient in one type and having no other specialties besides an arbitrary puzzle mechanic in their respective gyms has gotten stale, however.

Possible alternatives could be:

• A gym solely focused on Sky Battles. This would not limit the typings to strictly Flying due to the Levitate ability, but may not be utilized since it would force players to have at least one airborne Pokemon on their team (And Pokemon is nothing if not open to all team choices in the metagame sans Battle Tower-based facilities).
• A gym centered around the use of status-inflictions. I could see this being highly plausible and likely kept towards the end of the game.
• A gym centered around certain abilities, such as Rivalry or Plus & Minus.
• A gym focused on Double/Triple/Rotation battles.
• A gym that uses unevolved Pokemon holding Eviolite.
• A gym that utilizes unique Battle Items such as the Ring Target, Air Balloon, Red Card, Eject Button and Iron Ball.
• A gym that uses Pokemon that have been fully EV-trained in their respective fields to provide a better challenge than the ordinary Trainer-Pokemon.
• A gym that uses Shiny Pokemon, purely for the aesthetic.

 

[Superfox]

Peppertron, Dr. Silver, and Salt&PepperDiner, I definitely hear where you guys are coming from. In my original post, I don't advocate for the abolition of Gyms, though. Instead, I simply say that maybe gyms could find another thing to focus on besides type. I mean, you have to admit, it has gotten pretty formulaic and redundant at this point. It really seems that Gamefreak is withholding on creating a Dark-type gym in order to keep some sort of freshness to the whole concept, in that they can then say "Oh, look not all types have had a gym dedicated to them yet, so we haven't exhausted all possibilities...yet."

Meanwhile, certain types have also been given a disproportionate amount of gyms compared to other types that barely have any at all. For example, Rock and Ice types have both been represented in a gym for four out of six generations. However, types like Ground and Poison have only had one gym in those same six. Two for Poison if we're counting Roxie from Virbank, but that gym wasn't even part of the original Unova League and was only added into Black 2/White 2.

However, I will say that they seem to be trying to make each gym leader somewhat unique by giving them "signature" Pokémon of their respective type. For example, Candice's signature Pokémon was Abomasnow, Ramos' was Gogoat, Winona's was Altaria, etc. However, that's a gimmick that has its limitations.

So, in short, I'm not saying that we should get rid of gyms just yet, but instead, let's have gyms that focus on different aspects of the Pokémon franchise aside from type.

 

[Shadow Man]

I have two ideas. First of all, what if there were 12 gyms, but you only had to beat 8. You could go after the other four if you wanted, though. Secondly, you know how gym leaders give you TM? What if the whole team know that TM and was sentered around that move rather than a type?

 

[Arlo]

These sorts of complaints always amuse me.

What they really boil down to is "I've played these games for so long that I'm bored with the way they're set up, so what should THEY do to fix that?"

Why should THEY "fix" anything?

If you ate pizza every day and found yourself growing bored with it - after all, it's the exact same basic arrangement of ingredients every single time - would you even think that "THEY" have a responsibility to somehow change the nature of pizza just to suit you?

The way in which the games are set up - just like the way in which a pizza is set up - exists because it works. It serves its purpose and it results in a particular thing that appeals to people. That you've experienced it so many times now that you find it boring and redundant is, in every sense of the phrase, your problem - not theirs.

 

[Shadow Man]

Keep in mind, these are just what we would like, not need. In a perfect world, they could change the gyms to be interesting to everyone, but we know that is not going to happen. Also, if people are expressing a lack of replay-ability, then there is kind of a problem on both sides. However, if it works for most people, than there is no need to change it.

 

[Nah]

These sorts of complaints always amuse me.

What they really boil down to is "I've played these games for so long that I'm bored with the way they're set up, so what should THEY do to fix that?"

Why should THEY "fix" anything?

If you ate pizza every day and found yourself growing bored with it - after all, it's the exact same basic arrangement of ingredients every single time - would you even think that "THEY" have a responsibility to somehow change the nature of pizza just to suit you?

The way in which the games are set up - just like the way in which a pizza is set up - exists because it works. It serves its purpose and it results in a particular thing that appeals to people. That you've experienced it so many times now that you find it boring and redundant is, in every sense of the phrase, your problem - not theirs.

What you say is certainly true, and "don't fix what isn't broken" is good advice, but its mutually beneficial for them to change things up a bit (to some degree). If people become bored with the series because its playing it too safe, then they won't continue to buy it, which means the company gets less money out of the games. So if they change the formula a little bit, we don't get bored so easily, and they still get to roll in money.

Pokemon has been fairly good at keeping the formula the same while adding little changes to keep us interested (weather, abilities, contests, Mega Evolutions, etc), but its not too much to ask for Game Freak to try to spice it up a little bit more....especially when they'll never read this thread anyway lol.

 

[acatfrommars]

I like the gym battles, but maybe we they could change it up like some chapters in the manga. We could have a tournament styled battle (and it wouldn't always have to be Pokemon), to see who competes against the Gym Leader. The winner of the tournament would get to verse the Gm Leader. Either way, Gym Leaders are an integral part of the games imo so they are what they are. Maybe we could change their gyms to dual type?

 

[Blake Belladonna]

Rather than just being Monotyped, gyms should also be thematic and like what's been said, have a unique play style. For example, the Psychic gym could have Inverse Battles, the Flying Sky Battles, etc and perhaps set some special battle conditions like banning certain types or no items at all. At least make it optional or like in Challenge Mode so that experienced players don't find the formula stale.