6th Gen The timeline effect on the games

[Xander Olivieri]

And btw-how you where colosseum and XD take place in the timeline

Colossuem and XD don't take place in the time line at all. The regions don't exist in the main series and Neither Team Snagem nor Cipher exist. Gamefreak doesn't acknowledge the events of spin offs as Canon. Even though most Spin off titles can interact to the limit of being able to send Pokemon to the main series games, none of the spin offs are official. So the two events of Colossuem and XD don't exist with the RSE time line at all.

If this is the case, then Emerald doesnt take place with Ruby and Sapphire! The problem is that R,S, and E are simultaneously parallel to each other in terms of time. Now, I am not really that sure if Gen I and Gen III took place at the same time, we don't know. The only thing I could think up to tie FRLG to RSE is the Sevii Islands sidequest, but it could aswell be a time capsule for all we know.

I know the timeline is whack as hell but I'm guessing that GF will probably pull off some retconning in ORAS like they did in RSE when the Steel and Dark types were introduced whereas FRLG was = to RSE in terms of time.

Emerald is considered to be non canon for some points. Its a director's cut that they have continuously overlooked. Just as remakes aren't canon to the point that the events are true which is why you can have out of the time point references.

As far as HG/SS is concerned with Emerald its boiled down to which you accept as Canon and which you don't. If you accept HG/SS then the events of Emerald aren't Canon as Steven is reigning champion still even after losing to the main characters (which he makes a reference to). If you don't see the events of HG/SS as Canon since they were retellings and not the original stories, then Emerald could exist in the Canon time line. Emerald on its own was already a retelling of the main story but both sides at once. This is a bit different that with Platinum which wasn't a merger of stories but a new spin on the same story with a twisted ending. Platinum has already been shown twice over to be Canon thanks to Looker reappearing in more than one major Pokemon release (the first set released: B/W and X/Y.


As far as the mentioning of Plasma, the NPC could be refering to the B/W Plasma who were more televised than the later reincarnation who were more secretive with their tactics. I was confused as to why one of the Directors would say XY happen at the same time as B2W2 but if you only count the reference towards N's Plasma and not Ghetsis' then it can make some sense.


As for Fairy Recton....well XY broke the need for that with their main story. AZ's Floette is Fairy type yet the aids both say Fairy was a recently discovered type despite Fairy types existing more than 3000 year prior. When the games appear, they are newly discovered, but when they are remade, they just edit those words out cause its no longer a relevant remark.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Emerald is considered to be non canon for some points. Its a director's cut that they have continuously overlooked. Just as remakes aren't canon to the point that the events are true which is why you can have out of the time point references.

As far as HG/SS is concerned with Emerald its boiled down to which you accept as Canon and which you don't. If you accept HG/SS then the events of Emerald aren't Canon as Steven is reigning champion still even after losing to the main characters (which he makes a reference to). If you don't see the events of HG/SS as Canon since they were retellings and not the original stories, then Emerald could exist in the Canon time line. Emerald on its own was already a retelling of the main story but both sides at once. This is a bit different that with Platinum which wasn't a merger of stories but a new spin on the same story with a twisted ending. Platinum has already been shown twice over to be Canon thanks to Looker reappearing in more than one major Pokemon release (the first set released: B/W and X/Y.

If Emerald was non-canon, as well as believing HG/SS isn't canon, then why was Wallace part of the champions tournament rather than the gym leader tournaments, as well as Juan's inclusion and the Kanto and Jotho gym leaders using their HG/SS outfits, in B2/W2?

 

[Xander Olivieri]

If Emerald was non-canon, as well as believing HG/SS isn't canon, then why was Wallace part of the champions tournament rather than the gym leader tournaments, as well as Juan's inclusion and the Kanto and Jotho gym leaders using their HG/SS outfits, in B2/W2?

The PWT does not denote canon creditials. Giovanni who was on the run willingly shows up in a public venue as a Gym Leader, to which he lost his position to Blue, but since they used Blue to represent the Champion slot, that left a gap to be filled.

The Champion's tournament lacked enough combatants. So they used all Characters that were classified at one point to be Champions. Blue was a Champion in the original games, Lance in Second, because of the direct lineage, Red who beat Blue was recognized as Champion at one point but is never officially a champion based on our play through .

Blue, Red, and Wallace were added to give a healthy number of Champions leaving two openings in Kanto and Hoenn's Gym Leader slots who they replaced with other available Gym Leaders.

Bianca is also mixed in with the Unova Leaders and World Leaders as a set in Gym Leader. She was never a Gym Leader though. PWT's tournaments themselves aren't Canon to the story line outside of the part where you battle Corless.

All the gyms had to be represented in the tournament in some way, so they brought in two controversial characters. Bianca destroys a lot of the Canon reasoning.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

The PWT does not denote canon creditials. Giovanni who was on the run willingly shows up in a public venue as a Gym Leader, to which he lost his position to Blue, but since they used Blue to represent the Champion slot, that left a gap to be filled.

The Champion's tournament lacked enough combatants. So they used all Characters that were classified at one point to be Champions. Blue was a Champion in the original games, Lance in Second, because of the direct lineage, Red who beat Blue was recognized as Champion at one point but is never officially a champion based on our play through .

Blue, Red, and Wallace were added to give a healthy number of Champions leaving two openings in Kanto and Hoenn's Gym Leader slots who they replaced with other available Gym Leaders.

Bianca is also mixed in with the Unova Leaders and World Leaders as a set in Gym Leader. She was never a Gym Leader though. PWT's tournaments themselves aren't Canon to the story line outside of the part where you battle Corless.

All the gyms had to be represented in the tournament in some way, so they brought in two controversial characters. Bianca destroys a lot of the Canon reasoning.

I don't get why they couldn't put Iris in for Blue's spot and leave Blue in the gym spot and not include Giovanni. I mean they didn't have Koga either...


Anyways I do wonder if B2W2 do take place at the same time as XY...despite the Corless remake it's possible he could've visited before the events of those sequels. Also the Plasma remark could be about old Plasma...
Wish we also had a number to the years between BW and Gen IV's games.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I don't get why they couldn't put Iris in for Blue's spot and leave Blue in the gym spot and not include Giovanni. I mean they didn't have Koga either...


Anyways I do wonder if B2W2 do take place at the same time as XY...despite the Corless remake it's possible he could've visited before the events of those sequels. Also the Plasma remark could be about old Plasma...
Wish we also had a number to the years between BW and Gen IV's games.

Iris wasn't added cause 1) she's rematchable already. 2) You are the current Champion of Unova and take her place in the tournament.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The PWT does not denote canon creditials. Giovanni who was on the run willingly shows up in a public venue as a Gym Leader, to which he lost his position to Blue, but since they used Blue to represent the Champion slot, that left a gap to be filled.

The Champion's tournament lacked enough combatants. So they used all Characters that were classified at one point to be Champions. Blue was a Champion in the original games, Lance in Second, because of the direct lineage, Red who beat Blue was recognized as Champion at one point but is never officially a champion based on our play through .

Blue, Red, and Wallace were added to give a healthy number of Champions leaving two openings in Kanto and Hoenn's Gym Leader slots who they replaced with other available Gym Leaders.

Bianca is also mixed in with the Unova Leaders and World Leaders as a set in Gym Leader. She was never a Gym Leader though. PWT's tournaments themselves aren't Canon to the story line outside of the part where you battle Corless.

All the gyms had to be represented in the tournament in some way, so they brought in two controversial characters. Bianca destroys a lot of the Canon reasoning.

Shouldn't this imply that all post-game content in every gen games are non-canon to their respective stories?

 

[MrGriszell]

It's Steven xD Second person I see call Steven, Stephen...is it some kind of meme?

I think they'll keep the remakes where they are in the timeline. I think they'll imply retcon the mechanics but keep these games' event happening before B2W2.

Lol sorry my middle name is Stephen lol

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Shouldn't this imply that all post-game content in every gen games are non-canon to their respective stories?

No seeing as some post-game content is consistent with the story, either as a continuation or as a closure to the story itself. Like the battle against N at the end of B2W2 to claim his dragon for your own to be able to get Black Kyurem or White Kyurem.

The post game content for G/S would also be canon for the conclusion with Red.

Added features such as the Battle Tower, Battle Frontier, Battle Maison, Battle Subway, PWT, and those that typically break the fourth wall wouldn't be canon since external influences can change the outcomes to those events, and they were only added in for after game filler.

Story elemented add ons can still be Canon depending on consistency with the story, like Team Rocket on the Sevii Islands, the connection between Kanto and Hoenn through Celio's device, the Looker missions in B/W and X/Y. Post game story for Gold/Silver where you go to fight red, etc.


Battle only features aren't all canon since a lot of the time they don't follow typical story settings.

 

[Zeturic]

Colossuem and XD don't take place in the time line at all. The regions don't exist in the main series and Neither Team Snagem nor Cipher exist. Gamefreak doesn't acknowledge the events of spin offs as Canon. Even though most Spin off titles can interact to the limit of being able to send Pokemon to the main series games, none of the spin offs are official. So the two events of Colossuem and XD don't exist with the RSE time line at all.



Emerald is considered to be non canon for some points. Its a director's cut that they have continuously overlooked. Just as remakes aren't canon to the point that the events are true which is why you can have out of the time point references.

As far as HG/SS is concerned with Emerald its boiled down to which you accept as Canon and which you don't. If you accept HG/SS then the events of Emerald aren't Canon as Steven is reigning champion still even after losing to the main characters (which he makes a reference to). If you don't see the events of HG/SS as Canon since they were retellings and not the original stories, then Emerald could exist in the Canon time line. Emerald on its own was already a retelling of the main story but both sides at once. This is a bit different that with Platinum which wasn't a merger of stories but a new spin on the same story with a twisted ending. Platinum has already been shown twice over to be Canon thanks to Looker reappearing in more than one major Pokemon release (the first set released: B/W and X/Y.


As far as the mentioning of Plasma, the NPC could be refering to the B/W Plasma who were more televised than the later reincarnation who were more secretive with their tactics. I was confused as to why one of the Directors would say XY happen at the same time as B2W2 but if you only count the reference towards N's Plasma and not Ghetsis' then it can make some sense.


As for Fairy Recton....well XY broke the need for that with their main story. AZ's Floette is Fairy type yet the aids both say Fairy was a recently discovered type despite Fairy types existing more than 3000 year prior. When the games appear, they are newly discovered, but when they are remade, they just edit those words out cause its no longer a relevant remark.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Cipher and Snagem were problems for Orre - there's no reason to assume they had noticeable enough presences in other regions for people completely unrelated to Orre to remember them by name.

There is nothing in the games that establishes that the Shadow Pokemon Crisis couldn't have happened.

However, it is possible that it didn't. So, how about a better example of trading weirdness? Black/White and Black/White 2. I don't think anyone could argue that they are non-canon, and yet they trade between each other with no Time Machines.

And, also, I find the idea of an all-encompassing Pokemon canon to be kind of hilariously dumb, simply because of the paired versions. In the canon, which Pokemon did Team Flare awaken - Xerneas or Yveltal? Which team - Magma or Aqua - released their legendary, plunging Hoenn into a Weather Crisis, or was it both teams? Which Creation Trio member did Team Galactic go after, or did they go after both?

And so on and so forth.

These aren't minor inconsistencies that can be swept under the rug and ignored. They're relevant and major differences. And, yet, GF will never clarify any of these, because the differences don't matter. The timeline doesn't matter. It's intentionally left ambiguous enough that any game could coexist in the same timeline as any other game, aside from its sister games and its own pair of remakes / what it is a remake of.

If GF thinks that the timeline or the canon is going to get in the way of them telling the story they want to tell, they can and will ignore it.

 

[SnowpointQuincy]

There is no Time Line. There never was.

Giovani was at PWT because he is cool. No other reason.

 

[MrGriszell]

There is no Time Line. There never was.

Giovani was at PWT because he is cool. No other reason.

Yes there is.
G/S/C takes place 3 years after R/B
And BW2 takes place 2 years after BW
These are actually in the story of the games and not speculation.
The only question of the timeline in RS DP and XY.
We know BW takes place after DP because of the psychic elite four member is older. And it takes place after HG/SS because of the team rocket grunt who returned to his country.

Of course in any of the the games after RS were team magma or aqua ever mentioned? We'll yes they were in BW2 a married couple stated to have once belonged to team magma. Now does anyone know if they stated it was because they were defeated? Because I believe the fire elites four use to be part of team magma but left before they were defeated.
But I remember in gen 5 (BW)all the teams were mention except for magma and aqua so we can say that BW takes place before those teams got big attention.
Can anyone give a list of reasons why they believe gen 3 and gen 1 takes place during the same time?
I looked on bulbapedia and while it looks like it could be , I see no reason why R/S couldn't easily be retcon to gen6

 

[COOLTRAINER♂]

That kind of does bring up the point that most of these cameos are so devoid of context they're meaningless except for existing fans to smile/furiously post on online message boards about, though. A lot of assumptions appear to be that things only suddenly spring into existence the moment they're mentioned first in a game and any references to it must follow in sequence, which works since they're just characters in a video game but less so if we want to deeply discuss this stuff.

 

[MrGriszell]

There is no Time Line. There never was.

Giovani was at PWT because he is cool. No other reason.

That kind of does bring up the point that most of these cameos are so devoid of context they're meaningless except for existing fans to smile/furiously post on online message boards about, though. A lot of assumptions appear to be that things only suddenly spring into existence the moment they're mentioned first in a game and any references to it must follow in sequence, which works since they're just characters in a video game but less so if we want to deeply discuss this stuff.

What kind of context are you looking for, most of them are actually pretty straight forward. I do get what your saying, but could you give a few examples?

 

[Jacrad]

Neither Colossuem nor XD are owned by Gamefreak nor made by Gamefreak. Neither game exists in the same world as any game made by Gamefreak. Most of the spin offs can interact with the main title games. The main titles are the only games that exist within the main title time line and are the only canon Pokemon games for the main titles. Neither of the Gamecube games are Canon because they don't exist with the main series since they were not made by the main series' creators.

Whoa, whoa. I don't think you're in a position to deem what is and is not canon. As someone else said, absence of evidence is not evidence of the absence.
Maybe the games are canon. Maybe they're not. But that's for GameFreak, and really Nintendo since I believe they hold the copyrights to Pokemon, to decide.

Zelda: Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages were developed by Flagship and Capcom. Yet Nintendo has validated the two games place in the canon with the releasing of the timeline in the Hyrule Historia.

 

[SnowpointQuincy]

Any Cannon without Mirror B. is just not complete. :15:

 

[MrGriszell]

@khrysta that makes sense. I honestly believe these wont be the same games as in gen 3

 

[Jacrad]

Two different companies. Gamefreak doesn't acknowledge spin offs. That much has been proven before. The data for the Gamecube games don't exist. When traded to an appropriate copy, those Pokemon are then from that copy of the game and not the Gamecube games when transferred. A Pokemon sent from the gamecube game to R/S/E are Hoenn Pokemon. Pokemon sent from the gamecube games to FR/LG are Kanto Pokemon.

Same with DS Spin offs and PBR. The egg sent from the Pokemon Ranger games is from Sinnoh. Pokemon from PBR are from Sinnoh because their data is created on those games.

You cannot compare how Gamefreak and TPC runs to how another company runs. There is evidence that supports that Spin offs don't exist. Gamefreak doesn't acknowledge them as part of their stories. They aren't from them and aren't Canon to their games.

In terms of the Zelda Franchise however, you said it. Nintendo ACKNOWLEDGED another companies version as part of the story. Gamefreak however does not do this.

You're not giving me any evidence. Your only proof currently is that they aren't canon because GameFreak has not explicitly acknowledged them and because of some pedantic points about the coding. The coding is not sufficient evidence because the games were not developed in tandem with the main series games. GameFreak couldn't make a Pokemon from Orre be acknowledged as coming from Orre unless they had known all the details about the games prior to Colosseum's release.

If you are going to make your case that the spin-offs are not canon then you'll need to provide stronger support. Take for instance Pokemon Ranger Guardian Signs.
Pokemon Ranger Guardian Signs is questionably canonical because it features the Legendary Birds being sealed on the various islands. It is indicated that these Pokemon have been dormant for hundreds of years. If you subscribe to the idea that there is only one of each Legendary Pokemon, from a narrative standpoint, then Guardians Signs clearly defies the canon. In addition, it features the Legendary Beasts and seems to imply that they have been protectors of the Legendary Birds for longer than they have been in existence according to their Johto legend.

Alternatively, if GameFreak has made a public statement stating that the spin-off games are not canon that could be sufficient evidence. Although I would require a source. However, it is not unheard of for companies to change their mind later to suit their needs, similar to how the Star Wars Expanded Universe was originally canon but has been retconned so that the writers of the new movies don't have to worry about contradicting those source materials.

 

[DanZC]

It's funny that the same games that broke the RBY/GSC timeline will now break the timeline they started. RBY and GSC were straightforward. RS came in and broke from the continuity that was established and everything before them was retconed (RBY->FRLG/GSC->HGSS). The remakes provided a place in the new timeline for these retconed games. RS already had a place in the timeline and the timeline seemed to continue from where Gen V left off with X and Y. There was no sudden stopping point like with Ruby and Sapphire.

If RS gets retconed to the end of the timeline by ORAS, then B2W2 never happened, because of the Aqua/Magma Couple, which also means that BW never happened, which creates a paradox in the timeline because NPCs in XY state that Team Plasma "made the news a few years back."

Now of course, ORAS probably would take its original place in the timeline, and I would speculate that Hoenn discovered the Fairy Type and Mega Evolutions first and that they didn't reach Kalos until a few years later.

 

[MrGriszell]

It's funny that the same games that broke the RBY/GSC timeline will now break the timeline they started. RBY and GSC were straightforward. RS came in and broke from the continuity that was established and everything before them was retconed (RBY->FRLG/GSC->HGSS). The remakes provided a place in the new timeline for these retconed games. RS already had a place in the timeline and the timeline seemed to continue from where Gen V left off with X and Y. There was no sudden stopping point like with Ruby and Sapphire.

If RS gets retconed to the end of the timeline by ORAS, then B2W2 never happened, because of the Aqua/Magma Couple, which also means that BW never happened, which creates a paradox in the timeline because NPCs in XY state that Team Plasma "made the news a few years back."

Now of course, ORAS probably would take its original place in the timeline, and I would speculate that Hoenn discovered the Fairy Type and Mega Evolutions first and that they didn't reach Kalos until a few years later.

Are these games for sure remakes tho?

 

[DanZC]

Are these games for sure remakes tho?

Following its reveal yesterday, there has been some question as to the actual content of Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, as to whether they're remakes or new versions due to the wording of the announcement. During the Investor Briefing today, Satoru Iwata confirmed that Pokémon Omega Ruby & Pokémon Alpha Sapphire are full-remakes of the 2002 releases, Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire.

It has already been confirmed. (Source=http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml)