6th Gen The timeline effect on the games

[MrGriszell]

It has already been confirmed. (Source=http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml)

Well this is interesting, I'm wondering how they're gonna go about this. I'm sure these games aren't what we are expecting , we are mission something

 

[Zeturic]

Neither Colossuem nor XD are owned by Gamefreak nor made by Gamefreak. Neither game exists in the same world as any game made by Gamefreak. Most of the spin offs can interact with the main title games. The main titles are the only games that exist within the main title time line and are the only canon Pokemon games for the main titles. Neither of the Gamecube games are Canon because they don't exist with the main series since they were not made by the main series' creators. Pokemon traded from either Gamecube game are coded in as one of the gen 3 games as originating locations when traded forward. So any of the Pokemon traded to Ruby, Sapphire or Emerald will appear as Hoenn Pokemon and any Pokemon traded to Fire Red or Leaf Green will be Kanto Pokemon despite being caught in another game.

No Spin off title has a Canon relationship with the main games. Most can all interact with them in some way, some were used as a way to bring 2D sprites into more 3D settings. All spin offs are creative licensing where TPC allowed the use of their franchise to be made into different types of games to give more variety to the player's choices.



It didn't happen because the concept was made by a different company. The main company that makes the main games don't acknowledge the events of spin offs. You can receive Pokemon from Spin offs and in some cases send Pokemon to them, but the events of said spin offs don't exist in the main story line. If its not made by Gamefreak its not Canon.

Declaring something doesn't make it true. You've said this repeatedly, but given no evidence to support it. There is no reason that the side games (even those not made by GF) can't be canon.

Especially since they have to get GF's permission to make such games. If they wanted to make something that didn't fit in with GF's vision of the Pokemon world, it wouldn't get made.

As for inconsistencies, we have this with real world history too. The more things are told the more things change. When we first get a Pair of games, we're playing one side to a specific story. Like when telling your iteration you are doing specific things within that story, while someone else's iteration is doing something similar with a different outcome. This is more prominent with the 3rd Gen stories and further down the generation line. Its the same as listening to kids when they tell stories and start arguing on which version they heard trying to change the story up while the other is telling the story.

So in one telling, it was Team magma that was going around causing havoc, awakening Groudon and causing a drought, while in the other telling its Aqua, awakening Kyogre, and causing floods. Even with translations of old literature the differences are as minor but the story remains the same. Even with the minor difference the story presented through the games is still the same between two versions.

If you're trying to explain away inconsistencies by pushing the stories into myth, then there's no reason to go any further. All of them could be completely false. Or all wildly different versions of the same tale with no chronological relationship.

Ultimately, if the games are myths, you pretty much can't use anything in the games. You have no possible way of distinguishing which events "actually" happened and which were fabricated and inserted into the story after the fact.

And, your claim that the main series games makes your refusal to include side-games even more puzzling.

 

[Jacrad]

My refusal is based on facts. I operate only on facts.

That's fine. But you haven't provided any facts. Just opinions. The only thing you've said is that you haven't seen these games acknowledged in any of the main series games and lack of origin data for Pokemon of separate spin-off regions.

You should know that a lack of concrete facts is not proof that something does not exist. The Okapi was regarded as a fictitious animal, a cryptid, for years before evidence proved its existence. The lack of evidence didn't prove it didn't exist. The Okapi didn't magically come into being once evidence of its existence surfaced. It simply remained a mystery. Which, unless you can provide me with a source, is exactly what the canonicity of the spin-off games is, a mystery.

It's fine if you don't believe they are a part of the main series. It's entirely possible that they are non-canon. But if you're going to argue that they definitively aren't you need to provide a source or a counter-example. You completely missed the point I was making when I brought up Guardian Signs. I was pointing out that if the games were canon that these inconsistencies conflict with the information presented in the main series games.

 

[Zeturic]

If the games aren't made by the main creators then its not Canon and doesn't play a part in the story. I'm not just saying this. Its there in your face. None of the spin offs are Canon to the main titles. None of them are a part of the main titles. None of them are related to any of the main titles. None of them are acknowledged in any way, shape or form. This isn't a lack of evidence. There is no evidence to say that they are related. There is absolutely nothing that says they are Canon. There are many things that say they aren't.

For someone who seems to love to whine about how people are misrepresenting your position, it's amazing how little of my own position you seem to understand.

I am not saying that every spinoff game is canon, and no matter how emphatically you try to say that I believe that, it still won't be true. My point is that it is that saying that they are all un-canon is unreasonable. Equally, to claim that they do is unreasonable.

Why? Because neither side has any evidence (or, rather, neither does if you ignore the fact that some side-games can connect to the main games, as you do). There is nothing in the main games that suggests that the events of the side games actually happened. However, there is equally nothing in the main-series games that explicitly contradicts the side-games.

It could be that they are canon, or they could be non-canon. To attempt to argue either way for definite is foolish. Unless you can point to anything specifically said by the developers, you have no case.

Stop talking in absolutes. Instead of "all side-games are non-canon", say "I believe all the side-games are non-canon".

There isn't an attempt to explain away inconsistencies. Stop trying to put words where they aren't.

Surely you remember typing this?

As for inconsistencies, we have this with real world history too. The more things are told the more things change. When we first get a Pair of games, we're playing one side to a specific story. Like when telling your iteration you are doing specific things within that story, while someone else's iteration is doing something similar with a different outcome. This is more prominent with the 3rd Gen stories and further down the generation line. Its the same as listening to kids when they tell stories and start arguing on which version they heard trying to change the story up while the other is telling the story.

How is that anything other than an attempt to sweep away inconsistencies under the guise of myth / legend? You specifically went on and on about why the inconsistencies are a result of retelling the story. And, for the record, I'm talking about inconsistencies between the main-series games.

Never once is a single spin off mentioned. The Main Series games exist in their own world. No Spin offs exist in their world. The Games don't acknowledge the spin offs. The Company that makes the games don't acknowledge spin offs. Ignoring them is showing that you don't acknowledge it.

There is a clear timeline set and no spin off exists in the time line.

Again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because no spin-offs have been overtly mentioned doesn't mean they're not canon. Do you know why? Because evidence could be found in the future - or, since these are games, future games may reference them.

Ultimately, you need to do more than say "hey, nobody talks about them!" if you want people to take you seriously when you say they're non-canon. If there was something that explicitly contradicted them, such as a future region being based on the same area, but not being Orre, then you'd have something.

There's just not enough evidence either way to say that they are (not) canon without the "I think" qualifier.

We now even have word from a developer so you can't even argue that there isn't a time line. The events of R/B/G are around the same time as R/S/E who came before the events of G/S/C which are around the same time as D/P/Pt which came before the events of B/W which came before the events of B2W2 which is apparently around the same time as XY.

The events of ORAS will still be around the same time as the originals R/S. None of the spin offs relate to the events of the main games. All of the spin offs exist on their own.

A loose timeline isn't the same thing as a strict canon. You even seem to realize this, with your repeated appeals to myth / legends.

Lack of evidence when the lack is the number 0 means that there is zero evidence to support. There is zero evidence that the spin off region Orre exists in the Pokemon world we play through the hand held games. It isn't acknowledged by the chief creators. It isn't recognized by the world in which we play. There are no references despite the many years of supposed existence. There is nothing that says it exists at all. In the main titles there is no such thing as Shadow Pokemon, Team Snagem, or Team Cipher. The Orre region doesn't exist in the main games.

Again, there is also no evidence that it doesn't exist. If, as you say, the Pokemon games are myths, it is very possible that the only reason that there aren't people talking about the events of the Shadow Pokemon Crisis is that they are irrelevant to the current goings-on - as stories get revised, they tend to become more focused. Less extraneous, irrelevant details.

My refusal is based on facts. I operate only on facts.

The fact is that both the position that side-games are canon, and that they are non-canon have equal support (that being none), and thus pretending like they are established facts, rather than showing them to be the opinions that they are with an "I believe" qualifier are equally unreasonable.

 

[DanZC]

Well this is interesting, I'm wondering how they're gonna go about this. I'm sure these games aren't what we are expecting , we are mission something

That's what I'm wondering too. I'm expecting GF to keep the Hoenn games in their original spot in the timeline and add an explanation as to why the Fairy Type and Mega Evolutions exist. Perhaps Hoenn discovered them first, and eventually brought the discovery to Kalos years later. These games being in sixth gen raises a bunch of timeline issues, but I think that GF already planned to remake Ruby and Sapphire going into the development of X and Y, so I'm pretty sure GF has a way to make the timeline work.

 

[MrGriszell]

That's what I'm wondering too. I'm expecting GF to keep the Hoenn games in their original spot in the timeline and add an explanation as to why the Fairy Type and Mega Evolutions exist. Perhaps Hoenn discovered them first, and eventually brought the discovery to Kalos years later. These games being in sixth gen raises a bunch of timeline issues, but I think that GF already planned to remake Ruby and Sapphire going into the development of X and Y, so I'm pretty sure GF has a way to make the timeline work.

Actually I think they can just ignore the fairy type thing , that really doesn't need explanation
.

 

[Altius]

Well, the fact that they introduced the Fairy type in XY (which is supposed to be the latest in the timeline) does not prove that it was founded in that year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see any NPC in XY which says things like "fairy type is newly discovered". In G/S/HGSS I remember Jasmine said something about the Steel type being newly discovered.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Well, the fact that they introduced the Fairy type in XY (which is supposed to be the latest in the timeline) does not prove that it was founded in that year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see any NPC in XY which says things like "fairy type is newly discovered". In G/S/HGSS I remember Jasmine said something about the Steel type being newly discovered.

I don't recall them saying anything like that either. The most I remember is them saying it's "new" and that's it...

 

[Chr. Draco]

I think they focus on explaining things to players keeping the storyline intact as much as possible. So it may be something like interacting the past with the future or something between the games. Timeline sometimes references things during the story line, not always so maybe they will just do things as if it was a new adventure since I think they focus more on starting a new journey (in this case maybe relive a journey). anyway, both, XY and the remakes have to be compatible so that we are able to trade and interact between the games.

 

[Salzorrah]

Well, the fact that they introduced the Fairy type in XY (which is supposed to be the latest in the timeline) does not prove that it was founded in that year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see any NPC in XY which says things like "fairy type is newly discovered". In G/S/HGSS I remember Jasmine said something about the Steel type being newly discovered.

Even if they did say that, RSE proved that to be false, GF simply retconned that idea since RSE apparently came before GSC which the alleged "Steel Type" is newly discovered.

So, theres no doubt that the Fairy type would be simply retconned into the game without any explanation.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I kind of like that we're back to the beginning of the timeline. I felt that Gen V and XY went farther than they should've. I hope they keep the Hoenn region's story in it's proper place in time but do retcon things like the Fairy type discovery and that of Mega evolutions.

 

[Rivvon]

The one thing I don't get is why people say that games in the same Gen take place at the same time. I've never heard anyone offer up evidence as to why FR/LG and R/S/E or DPPt and G/S/C/HG/SS take place at the same time. They just go with "oh, they're in the same gen, so they must take place at the same time".

DPP opens with a news report on a red Gyarados appearing at the Lake of Rage.

HGSS has an event where Erika tells Jasmine that she thinks Jasmine would like the Contests in Sinnoh and should go participate. Jasmine appears to give the player Waterfall in DPP and also appears as a Contest opponent.

There is a fair amount of evidence pointing to gen 2 happening at the same time as gen 4.

If this is the case, then Emerald doesnt take place with Ruby and Sapphire! The problem is that R,S, and E are simultaneously parallel to each other in terms of time. Now, I am not really that sure if Gen I and Gen III took place at the same time, we don't know. The only thing I could think up to tie FRLG to RSE is the Sevii Islands sidequest, but it could aswell be a time capsule for all we know.

I know the timeline is whack as hell but I'm guessing that GF will probably pull off some retconning in ORAS like they did in RSE when the Steel and Dark types were introduced whereas FRLG was = to RSE in terms of time.

Emerald's place in the timeline compared to RS is most similar to BW's predicament. It's basically an alternate universe, an alternate scenario. Obviously Black and White can't happen in the same universe, just like Emerald can't take place in the same universe as Ruby, and Ruby can't take place in the same universe as Sapphire. Their place in the grand timeline would still be the same, though.

Retconning will happen, but there is a big difference between retconning gameplay mechanics, and retconning actual plot.

There is no Time Line. There never was.

Giovani was at PWT because he is cool. No other reason.

Excepting the Driftveil Tournament, the PWT is not canon. There is no way Caitlin could have aged from DPP to BW/B2W2, but Bugsy did not age from HGSS to B2W2.





The timeline essentially is:

FRLG approx. = RSE
- 3 years later ->
HGSS/DPP
- some years later ->
BW - 2 years later -> B2W2
- some years later ->
XY

I used the remakes' names for simplicity's sake.

Gen 2 is confirmed to take place 3 years after gen 1.
Because of the reasons I've listed above in response to Salt&PepperDiner, gen 4 and 2 take place essentially at the same time.
Caitlin appears in the Battle Frontier in gen 4, and then in BW as an E4 member having aged a bit, so we know there is some years in-between gen 4 and BW.
B2W2 is confirmed to take place 2 years after BW.

So that leaves XY and RSE.
In gen 5, if you transfer a Pokémon from gen 4, it will only say the region it's from on its profile page. If you transfer a Pokémon from any gen 3 game, however, it will always say "after a long travel through time." This is really our only way to place RSE in the timeline--close to FRLG. Since we know FRLG takes place at least 4, but likely many more, years before BW, it makes sense for the profiles to mention that. The fact that they mention it for RSE Pokémon and not gen 4 Pokémon is likely not just coincidence.
In XY, however, ANY Pokémon that is transferred says "after a long travel through time and space." This essentially confirms that it takes place some time after B2W2, as there is an NPC who mentions that Team Plasma was on the news, so it can't be before gen 5 (and that Kalos is even farther away from the other regions than usual, most likely).


This being said, I do think the timeline is of great importance, and it will affect the human cameos we receive, and other plot-related things. But game mechanics can easily be retconned (FRLG had Dark and Steel type Pokémon and Abilities, and HGSS had the Physical/Special split) and will be retconned, so the gameplay is up-to-date. The only things the timeline will affect are those that are story-related.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I agree, only mechanics will be updated. The story will be consistent. Also the cameos if there are any will most likely be few few and limited. Hoenn for the most part wasn't greatly influenced by the timeline, and is the region whose events have been the least referenced in other games.

 

[Pokefan203302]

[Theory] The official Pokemon timeline changes everything

As some of you may know, the official pokemon timeline has recently been revealed.

Note, the Japanese next to RSE is Red and Blue, and the japanese next to DPP is Gold and Silver.
Though with this, we can see 2 generation six games, ORAS, and XY are in a different time.
You could just think "Well, they didn't obey this in different generations, so it shouldn't matter."
WRONG. B2W2 and BW communicate through some unexplained power now, though it was so close, it shouldn't matter, while RSE and XY are so far apart, it leads me... something else.
At first, it just seems weird that they would show this as a game at a far away time is coming out. And that there clearly seems to be some new Mega evolutions happening, and bank, and stuff, it seems illogical that they will update XY to add them, as it breaks the previous gens.
"So why could this matter?" you could be thinking, and something I thought about seems to make me wonder about this. With some sort of time travel to trade, then how would they add such a new part? FireRed and LeafGreen just added a region long distance communication sidequest, and HeartGold and SoulSilver just added a bunch of minigames. Though read that again. The same time as RSE happens, as Regional long distance communicator is created. And what if you take on the rest of that side quest, to travel through TIME. And remember a feature in the other games, Gold and Silver, how you can use a TIME MACHINE TO TRADE BETWEEN RED AND BLUE, filtering out new POKEMON, AND FORMS. See where I'm going?

And, a certain character, in which you meet at the end of Pokemon XY

Spoiler:

AZ, the king that lives forever, has a lot of backstory missed. And with so little pokemon, we can go to the other side of the GS time machine. "New Pokemon". With only 72 Pokemon in the game, half of what we get normally, how do we know there couldn't be a game that adds more, and filters it out of ORAS and XY?

Anyways, this is my theory. Sorry if this has been said before, and thanks for reading it.
TL DR ORAS has time machines


edit: guess somebody already wrote about the effects of the time line, darn it.

 

[Ceo Ohmnis]

The timeline and continuity are certainly important....in things that actually have some focus on the story and/or lore. Storyline and lore has always taken a backseat to everything else in Pokemon. As much as I'd like Pokemon to have a good storyline, that'll most likely never happen (unfortunately), so the timeline/continuity isn't all that important to me. What I do care about is that the gameplay is good and that it has lots of good (post game) features.

Also, someone still needs to explain to me how FR/LG and R/S/E take place at the same time. I forgot about the Red Gyarados on Sinnoh TV thing, so I can see how Gens 2 and 4 take place at the same time, but as for Gens 1 and 3....

It's Game Freak that makes the games, btw, not Nintendo. Nintendo has almost nothing to do with the development of the games.

In FRLG You had to help fix a machine that allows Kanto to communicate/trade with Hoenn. That's the only connection I can think of that connects the timeline between the two games.

 

[Altius]

Even with the official timeline revealed, I don't think there would be any effect on battling or trading. BW and BW2 already proved that it is possible.

However, they COULD make it notable that ORAS happened before the events in XY. Maybe that time Mega Evolution was just discovered? (According to latest CoroCoro scans this is possible as Steven is known to be researching on them) They could add this into the storyline.

Given that the new Groudon/Kyogre are ancient devolutions, I think it kinda links to the timeline factor that the Hoenn story plot happened way before XY.

 

[erisfrost]

What about different dimensions?

Each game happens in canon, but the effects are different in each individual timeline.~

The unown have been known to do some crazy stuff. Why can't they create a whole other universe with different events?

It is probably far from truth, but it would interesting!

 

[Xander Olivieri]

What about different dimensions?

Each game happens in canon, but the effects are different in each individual timeline.~

The unown have been known to do some crazy stuff. Why can't they create a whole other universe with different events?

It is probably far from truth, but it would interesting!

Alternate dimensions all exist at the same time frame though. The events all happen at the same time even if the stories are altered slightly at any time. So even if its a different universe, the events are still happening at the same time as the originals.

 

[Pepperton]

Even though there is now an "official" timeline for the Pokemon games, I don't think it'll change much. Obviously, with the recent CoroCoro leaks, they're content on developing new Mega evolutions even though according to the timeline, they weren't even close to being discovered in RSE.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Even though there is now an "official" timeline for the Pokemon games, I don't think it'll change much. Obviously, with the recent CoroCoro leaks, they're content on developing new Mega evolutions even though according to the timeline, they weren't even close to being discovered in RSE.

All I recall is that they said they were discovered recently in Kalos. Sometimes recently could include 10 years time depending on what scale of time they're looking at xD.