6th Gen The XYZ of Gen VI's Failings so far and why the next Game will be MUCH better

[Monte Blanc]

Slow down. Your idea of pacing is much different than mine...actually I don't what the hell you're on about with plots and all that NPC interaction and story relevancy stuff. When looking at it on a game design stand point, that hardly matters. Although I give you this, they did contribute to the pacing, but not positively. All those NPC interactions that happens can be pretty much a completely distraction. That Furfou hunt? Should not be there. I'm not gonna waste my time dissecting X/Y's flaws anyway, I merely posted here to call out on the name calling, not to tell you what I feel about X/Y.

But let's look at your previous post. Your argument to the OP were basically "I do not like what other people like about the previous games." Throwing the player into an obscure world without any help or telling them where to go is exactly what people liked about those games. You listed that as a flaw when it isn't, far from it. People loved exploring on their own, loved finding out things and be surprised. I mean, hell, I avoided X/Y spoilers just to get that sense again but the game was just so streamlined I felt rather underwhelmed in that regard. Linearity is NOT a bad thing, but neither is non-linear. You mentioned the non-linearity but NOT why it's bad, so you didn't really back up your argument, either.
[Super] Metroid and Legend of Zelda are tremendously loved and critically acclaimed for dropping the player into a world and basically telling them "you're on your own". I mean, Super Metroid is often considered the best game of all time because of that...wait, no, they love it for nostalgia, surely. Metroid Other M is right for streamlining and introducing a plot to a series that never meant to have it!

But really what made you lose your credibility is accusing the OP's views to be affected by nostalgia. It is stupid and should not be used as an argument, because it is disrespectful and rude, borderline insulting. And I showed you why.
See what I mean? I said that to show how stupid it sounds. Accusing others of "nostalgia" is just as bad, and now you know why. It's a lazy excuse, and people should stop using it.

I'm sorry, but from an argumentative stand-point, stating your opinion ("Looking back, X/Y has many flaws and it was evident it was rushed. The narrative and pacing was definitely off.") and failing to elaborate on why you feel this way makes you lose your credibility to hold up your point. If you only wanted to call out the name-calling, then that's what should have been done. Point blank, period.

I never listed Gen I&II's free-roaming quality as a negative.

Granted, the obscurity of what we were supposed to be doing made Gen I&II some of the most replayable games in the series.

I liked that we were left to discover things for ourselves, but those games were from a different time. In this day and age, the target audience for Pokemon (Kids between 8-12) don't want a free-roaming adventure. They're used to games that give them assistance and guide them to the next objective (Seriously, research the games that are targeted towards kids between 8 and 12 that have been produced in the last five years and tell me they don't all have a linear system as compared to a non-linear one).

Have you ever witnessed a child of today playing a Gen I or Gen II game? From personal experience (My sister is 10), it's laughable. They simply don't know what they're doing. My sister would consistently ask me what to do next, which way to go, and she'd often get frustrated and switch to Pokemon Y or another recent game which provided in-game guidance. If GameFreak designed Pokemon like they did back then, kids wouldn't want to play it because they wouldn't know what to do. And it isn't just my sister, there are forums dedicated to this sort of thing, chock-full of younger gamers playing old video games who are so confused as to what to do next that they have to post about it in search of assistance.

And as for the plot contributing to bad-pacing, that's your opinion. I'm sorry you didn't appreciate the little touches and saw them as distractions (From what, I have no idea).

 

[Vehks]

They actually made EV training much more user friendly and actually VISIBLE this time around!

But my main gripe with X/Y (aside from there being a lot less post game activities vs past gen) is that they left the IV system pretty much untouched and just threw out yet another tweak to breeding which is ok, but is still incredibly tedious and just not all that fun in my opinion.

So according to Gamefreak, Pokemon are your friends and should be treated with love and respect!

... unless you are a competitive trainer which you should then force inbreeding and abondon pokemon babies by the hundreds.

 

[Thief]

I've been a fan ever since Red came out (although I dwindled a bit around Gen 2, I picked it right back up again in time for Gen 3)... I do surprisingly agree with a lot of what you've said, but at the same time, I still love the games enough to keep playing them. I do agree there is so much more they could do with the series (especially in terms of lore and adventure aspects) instead of using these games with the same reptitive formula over and over again, but now that they've transitioned to XY and given us trainer customisation, new features etc... I say just wait it out and give it a chance. This was a pretty big leap for them. I've never bothered with competitive before this generation, but now that EV/IV training is easier, I'm actually enjoying it. So I don't begrudge them for that.

I don't think I know of any game that goes into as much detail as the questions you listed at the bottom of your post (like the satellite/Rayquaza thing, c'mon), but I still see your point. Even if GF doesn't bring out something like what you've described, I'm sure they've got a few tricks left up their sleeve, especially as technology and consoles keep advancing at the current pace.

 

[hiff8]

You realize this game is literally not built for you? Enjoy it for what it is, enjoy it as an indulgence of your inner child, or don't play it O-O. But really, do you think I have time to read an essays worth of Pokemon complaints?

Naw...I'm out fool

 

[UKNOWJUSTIN]

You can spend all those hours killing hundreds of magikarp to ev train if you want to. I'm glad they have super training and horde battles now. And as for the exp share, that's invalid to complain about seeing how you have a choice to use it.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Why exactly is an emphasis on online battling a bad thing? I personally like it. To me and to many, it is a great source of replayability. The Battle Chateau provided a nice way to be able to level up, and it was a decent replacement for Gym Leader rematches (Though I'd still like to have the Gym Leader rematches...). As for the story, it's never the main reason anyone plays Pokemon, and it shouldn't be. I know I don't give a damn what the story is, as long as the game provides a decent roster of Pokemon and some good replayability.

Seriously, though, even with all its flaws, this is still a damn good game. Sure, if you don't like to battle (Which is kind of odd if you play Pokemon, I mean battling is the main part of the game), then you might find the game poor, but if you enjoy battling, then this game is definitely up there in the series.

Last generation, it was the Generation I fans that were the most annoying. Now, though, the fandom has seen rise to a much worse species of whiner: The "I hate all the games but DPPt" guys. You know, the guys who kiss ass when regarding Generation IV (Which wasn't all that), and regard the other games as trash.

Generation I? OUTDATED GARBAGE ONLY GENWUNNERS LIKE IT!!!

Generation II? OVERRATED!

Generation III? WORST GAME IN THE SERIES BECAUSE TRUMPETS!!!

Generation V? AARGH CHILDISH TOO LINEAR!!!

Generation VI? AAAAAAAARRGGGHHHH! IT HAS KANTO POKEMON AND KANTO POKEMON SUX AND TOO MUCH BATLING AND ONLINE MODES SUCK!!!!

But Generation IV? AMAZING AMAZING BEZT GAIM EVAR BEST PLOT EVER BEST POKEMON EVER NO FLAWS EVER!!!

Seriously, guys, chill. Sinnoh isn't that amazing, Kanto doesn't suck that much, calm down. People will still like Kanto Pokemon. Deal with it.

There's people who think Generation IV is the best? This is the first time I hear of them...I know theres fans of the other five...I'm one of the third. I enjoyed Sinnoh though, it was good imo.

I felt the plot of the plot had holes, not the plot kind, but just strange pauses, more so than the last generations I've played (3-5).

 

[Mega Missingno]

Actually, I've been a fan of Pokémon since Johto, and I've played every game since LeafGreen (Except FireRed and Ruby) and the franchise isn't stale to me at all!! I actually think they've gotten better and better!!! I love these games so much! I even love the Exp. Share! During BW2, spending hours Audino training my team took away from the wonder of Pokémon more than add to it. It made training tedious and boring. Now, I get to train while doing my favorite thing, catching Pokémon and working on my Pokédex! And it made the adventure fun for me since I didn't have to stop everything to Audino train or just grind. Not to mention demgraphicstho. In fact, I think Pokémon pet the heads of genwunners (not saying you are one haha) in this game so much that it actually annoyed me. I'm still waiting for a gen 5 mega!! There are gen 5 fangirls out there, Gamefreak! Ah well, I'm just ranting at this point.


Everyone's entitled to their opinion, though, so I respect your views. Not everyone is going to agree and that's fine! c:

but it's wayyyyy too early to give gen 5 fans a nostalgia kick. We just came out of Gen 5 not too long ago, so it seems silly for GF to "pander" to that gen as much as they have with the first gen; which was eons ago.

 

[Trainer Evan]

(like the satellite/Rayquaza thing, c'mon)

Hey, all I'm saying is if I'm on a transcontinental flight, I really, really don't want to cross paths with Rayquaza's patrol trajectory. That would be bad.

 

[Eruption]

I can understand the original posters' opinions, most of them come down to nostalgia which certainly isn't a big thing. You just have to come to terms with the fact that you'll prefer the older games to the newer ones.

I personally think X/Y have been welcome games because B/W were just off par for me. Perhaps it was because they were on the same console as the last generation they were so little advanced technlogically, but it also didn't help that they didn't let us catch any old pokémon until we were finished with the main story especially since most of the Unova pokémon were just horrific knock offs of the original 151. While B/W's story was probably the best of any entry in the series, the rest of the game's experience was just a bit underwhelming.

X/Y is refreshing on the other hand, it's great to see everything in 3D on a handheld and almost all the Kalos pokémon have great designs. Mega evolutions and fairy type shake things up in a good way even though I originally thought I would hate the concepts. Furthermore, super training has encouraged to actually bother making an effect with the more complex side of the game and attempt competitive battling in future perhaps.

I still prefer the first four gens to X/Y, but there is a good game there and I have had a lot of fun with it. As I had with B/W even though they were my least favourite so far.

All we need now is Pokémon bank so I can get some of my favourites on my team.

 

[scprepschool]

As long as tms remain infinite and I can spam max repels without having to go to my bag ( need shaking grass back ) I don't care what they do... the stories are kind of brief really and always have been. I enjoy it taking a more competitive growth... it may be the only key to the franchise surviving the future of gaming. I mean... I only bought a 3ds to play pokemon. If I'm playing other videogames when im not playing x,y its call of duty or something multiplayer or highly competitive and fast paced... I'm almost positive even the best video game stories will fail without a great online interactive experience to go with it in the future of gaming. This is my opinion, but there are millions who feel the same. So pkmn's just getting hip to it, this is a good thing, its a great sign that they may be able to stay alive for many years to come.
To summarize that : IMO game freak/Nintendo/pkmn are making EV/IV training and competitive online interaction more accessible and more understandable so that they can have a broader spectrum of interaction online.

 

[LoudSilence]

Now, everything is available on the internet. As much as I wanted to go in blind, I already found out lots of things about Gen VI. Even things like the Friend Safari would have added a lot if you didn't know about them beforehand. Like, beat the E4 and then finding out about this cool feature. Even Wonder Trade is probably more fun if you found out about it by yourself in the game, instead of finding out about it via internet. With new generations, you go in the game knowing everything.

True, it is a little saddening. I encountered spoilers while actively trying to avoid them.

I think releasing this worldwide on the same day offset that spoiler-fest, at least initially...a lot of the game thankfully felt new because no one could consult a region that got it first for answers. I wonder why people even like ruining the sense of discovery for themselves.

words

Hey, this is a casual convo, you don't have to get so heated. You also can't come in and say "X/Y have these flaws" and then refuse to elaborate, saying that's not why you posted.

At any rate, the OP makes certain points but they're all pretty subjective so it's hard to agree/disagree. I feel like GameFreak picked up the ball they had dropped in Gen5 (Black/White and their sequels are my least favourite of the series). Lots of improvements and they balanced catering to the youth and older players pretty well.

There are plenty of neat little touches that indicate a serious labour of love; whatever faults I felt the game had I was able to overlook them because you can tell this isn't just some cash-in iteration. They truly attempted to innovate and they succeeded.

 

[s0nido]

I feel like you, OP, are missing the point of what these games are supposed to be. You can't put Pokemon in the same class as other RPGs like Final Fantasy, which place a huge emphasis on the single-player campaign (they don't have any multiplayer features as far as I know). Pokemon has always been an RPG focused on multiplayer features and the single-player campaign isn't really the focus of the game. While I do think that the campaign of X/Y was a tad short (okay, REALLY short, I finished it in a week while I was supposed to be "taking my time"), I was drawn into the metagame of Pokemon like never before. I always told myself I'd get into competitive battling in previous generations, but the metagame always intimidated me. Now, however, it seems inviting, with Super Training making it far easier and more accessible to more players. I understand your gripes with the new games, but honestly, I feel like X/Y has changed Pokemon for the better. The series has become far from stale with gen 6 - it's been given new life and has brought people back into the series who've abandoned it for so long.

 

[CoffeeDrink]

That's weird, koff~

Don't be that guy man, that guy that says the next scratch ticket will be a winner. . . okay maybe the next one. . . not this one then the next. . . okay, two more. . . I was hoping a few games that came out this year didn't blow (Dead Space 3 and The Last of Us) and where did that get me? Hating that I held out hope. Don't hope. At all, just take it like it is. Don't say the next one will be better, because in the minds of many, it won't, koffi~

 

[morrison]

I disagree with the motion of some to put it intp a home console game. simply because all i have ever owned are handhelds.

I agree with some points. like being shown everything, and obv I am older, but some poster wrote that they were 4 yo ? I couldnt even read at 4 yo so I wouldnt expect a 4 yo to understand the game. I know I got terribly lost in mt moon when I was first playing it and even in the silph co building but it was totally worth it I think.

 

[Drivillian]

I've been playing since Red and Blue and I do have to agree with you on some points. Nowadays, a lot of games are about online multiplayer. Look at the COD franchise. I can honestly say I never played the campaign on Black Ops 2, all I've done on that game is Online Multiplayer and the majority of my friends who play it do the same thing. Everyone is complaining about other games storylines being too short, its just the common tend anymore =/

 

[L0RD G3NGAR]

Well honestly what do you expect? They come out with a new main sieries game every year now, and that needs to stop. They need to spend more time creating a better pokemon game.
Also, It's the first Main siries game for 3DS, ofcourse it's going to lack stuff.
They need to just spend 2 years on a new pokemon game and It WILL likely be alot better than what they do in 1 year.

Sure, I get it. GF want's to make money, but pokemon already makes enough. If they spent 2-3 years on a game it would likely be filled with adventure, and it would have a even better metagame.

They release another game each year because people will by them, simply because they are Pokemon games.
I also hate how all these events are wifi, not everyone has wifi(lots do but still) if they did not make mystic pokemon event, they could make you have to find them in game which would be ALOT more fun.

Tho they did make the game pretty good considering how much of a change it was and the fact that its the first Pokemon game for 3ds, because now GF knows what they did wrong and what they can improve on.

 

[Trainer Evan]

I find it interesting how many people feel like Pokemon can't be in the same league as great RPG's(despite having insane potential) without sacrificing the metagame. ****, they could just port the metagame we have now to the next game with only minor tweaks, and spend all of the development time making a truly epic game. They don't have to make anything new, just be more creative with what they already have and add more of it. Add Quest Bulletin Boards, like in Mystery Dungeon, or even cooler "Bounty Boards" where you're rewarded for catching problem pokemon in the area or dungeons. Throw in a randomized loot system....So much could be done with so little effort.

 

[Cerberus87]

A pokemon game needs to be made where beating the Elite 4 ISN'T the primary objective.

Yet you sing praises of 1st gen where the objective of the game was exactly, and only, that.

In BW the primary objective was to stop Team Plasma. Of course, you had to go through the E4 first, but the last battle wasn't against the Champion. There's your game.

 

[CoffeeDrink]

Sure, I get it. GF want's to make money, but pokemon already makes enough. If they spent 2-3 years on a game it would likely be filled with adventure, and it would have a even better metagame.

Well, koff~

The third generation of games came out in about the time you're talking about (2-3 years after Gold/Silver) and to me it was the worst Pokemon Game I've ever played, Leaf Green and Fire Red were okay, but RSE, not so much.

Also, I'm sure they've spent quite a few years putting this thing (Pokemon X/Y) in motion. All of the 3D models and graphics they had to play with and update would take quite a bit more than just 2 years. I'd bet money that they were working on it when Black and White came out, they just didn't have the right time to put it out. Now that the 3DS is a little cheaper, Pokemon is available to far more people I think, koffi~

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I find it interesting how many people feel like Pokemon can't be in the same league as great RPG's(despite having insane potential) without sacrificing the metagame. ****, they could just port the metagame we have now to the next game with only minor tweaks, and spend all of the development time making a truly epic game. They don't have to make anything new, just be more creative with what they already have and add more of it. Add Quest Bulletin Boards, like in Mystery Dungeon, or even cooler "Bounty Boards" where you're rewarded for catching problem pokemon in the area or dungeons. Throw in a randomized loot system....So much could be done with so little effort.

I agree, it'll be so much nicer if it had a more rpg like system. Also maybe change the way moves work, and instead make pp into some sort of energy bar. They could introduce items that allow the use of less energy but still the same amount of power, that could take the place of pp up and pp max. Seriously the pp system is kind of outdated...and kind of boring...