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Things the Pokémon Fandom Seems to Want that You…Don’t

324
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11
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    • Seen Sep 1, 2023
    So I was watching a YouTube video earlier that got me thinking: are there any things that a big part of the fandom seems to want or think "should" happen that you don't want or at least don't understand?

    And I just wanna preface: this is not meant to chastise or belittle anyone's opinion or wants. I'm just explaining how I see things.

    So, having said that, there are a few things for me.

    The thing brought up in the video was…the Sound Type.

    I honestly don't know why, but a lot of Pokémon fans seem to think that Sound Type "should" be a thing, but…I REALLY don't buy the arguments in favor of it.

    One of the things they argue is that so many moves are sound-based. Therefore, they should all be retyped to be Sound Type.

    There's a reason why so many moves across types are sound-based: because almost EVERY LIVING THING makes sound of some kind. And there are different TYPES of sounds for different things. Bugs buzz, hence the move Bug Buzz. Evil beasts snarl, hence Snarl being Dark-type.

    The concept of "sound" is just too broad to build a type around. The only way would then be to limit it to Pokémon based on music or singing and that would get played out fast.

    And then what would you do with moves like Bug Buzz or Metal Sound? Or Pokémon like Noivern, Primarina, and Toxtricity? Retype them all?

    But anyway…what is that thing for you guys?
     
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    41,427
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  • I like the sound type on paper but don't have a huge desire to see it happen, or not anymore at least (since I do think I used to want it at some point). Seems like it would be a bit hard to rework things to fit that type at this point.

    Many of the other popular things I do think I also want though - mainly things like voice acting and permanent inclusion of megas. Lack of voice acting is one I can probably do without though, but seeing Piers sing in SwSh kind of cemented how weird it was that the game was still silent at parts. :x
     

    pkmin3033

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    An open world Pokemon game. This is something so many people want, and I have never been able to understand why...or rather, I can understand why, but I can't understand why they think it would be a good idea.

    I'm often somewhat appalled that people are so...selectively critical, shall we say, when it comes to Game Freak and Pokemon. There seems to be this general lack of awareness of where the problems come from, with recent Pokemon titles especially. Game Freak are an extremely small, notoriously inept team of programmers, who are under the iron fist of a composer who has absolutely no clue what he is doing...or rather, who has proven that he can't keep up with the demands of making a good quality video game on current system hardware. You can directly attribute a lot of the problems with recent Pokemon titles to Masuda's way of working. I'm not saying that there aren't other problems - most of them coming from TCPI and the merchandise train that the games have to keep up with, I'm sure - but if Masuda would be more flexible and logical in his way of working, the games wouldn't be half as bad as they have been in all likelihood. There should have been significantly more people working on SnS, but Masuda doesn't like working in larger groups. Masuda insists on starting every project from the ground-up, rather than building on past titles to create a more robust and refined experience. There is just so much wrong with Game Freak and the way they are run that it's impossible for them to make a high quality title now. Especially when you factor into this that they don't have the time to properly refine their titles.

    There's this (partially perceived) general desire for open world titles based on the success of a few titles without the understanding of what made those titles so good...and, in most cases, it wasn't because they were open world titles. The illusion of freedom is nothing more than that - an illusion. Linearity is an inherent trait in any game with an endgame goal; just because you can wander around in a bigger area doesn't enhance the quality of the experience. If anything, it makes it worse, because it is literally just padding. You're taking longer to run from one objective to the next, and that's all you're doing. There's this general assumption that if a game has an open world then it will be a good game; an appalling lack of recognition that it is the systems that support and require a game have an open world to make full use of them, not that the game has an open world, that make it a good game. Or basically, a focus on the style rather than the substance. Which I get, nobody really cares about why a game is good as long as it is good. But applying this to another franchise that works completely differently, assuming it'll be good just because of this, and begging for it to happen, is something I find almost painful to see.

    I've seen people who have loathed recent Pokemon games wish for an open world Pokemon game in the same breath, and there is an appalling lack of awareness in this...I mean, do you seriously expect Game Freak to be able to deliver on this? Game Freak are the problem with recent Pokemon titles, and those problems aren't going to magically disappear if you take them completely out of their element and have them make an open world game. That is going to make matters WORSE, not better, because they're going to have to start from scratch. Without the resources you would expect a AAA franchise to have. I would have thought that would be obvious with SnS especially, where the Wild Area was effectively one giant, empty route with absolutely no thought put into it, that Game Freak don't know how to make an open world title. People want an entire game like this? An open world Pokemon game would not magically "save" the franchise. Not if Game Freak, with their complete lack of understanding on how to make anything other than Pokemon Red/Blue with a fresh coat of paint, are the ones developing it.

    I get a headache just thinking about this. But then, I am someone who is not particularly impressed by open world games - I've played plenty of good ones (Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, etc.) but I've also played plenty of awful ones (Breath of the Wild, Assassin's Creed Valhalla, etc.) and it's very easy to mess these things up. Just having an open world is not enough to make a video game worth playing, and plenty of developers fail to recognise this. Given Game Freak's track record over the last decade or so, and their recent attempt at dipping their toes in the water with SnS' Wild Area, I think an open world game from them is the last thing we need, because it will be so threadbare, so lacking in content (or worse, it'll take cues from Breath of the Wild and add bullshit like crafting and stamina; things that are designed to waste time in the name of "immersion" when they're just padding the experience out rather than adding meaning to it) that if you condensed the actual content in it right down you'd have exactly the same thing as you would have if it was a "classic" Pokemon game, only without the hours spending running across empty scenery. It's just not going to work.
     
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    Nah

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    -pretty much any new type
    -the Battle Frontier
    -a dark story (I think this a thing people still want?)

    Though for that last one it's more that I want a good/well-written story than I don't want a dark story. Pokemon has never had a high quality story and they dropped the ball especially hard with XY and SwSh, so there's not any real reason to expect that it would be any good anyway. Nevermind that Pokemon has always had dark elements sprinkled into it (Team Rocket murdering a Marowak, half the Ghost Pokemon, Lysandre attempting genocide, Mega Evolution, etc).

    Open world gives me mixed feelings largely for reasons gone into detail by Dawn. An open world game done well can be a very enjoyable experience, and 4 of the 5 open world games I have played have been that (even if they were imperfect), but there's no reason to believe that the first (or any) open world Pokemon game will be great.
     
    64
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    • Seen Oct 29, 2021
    I like the Sound type a lot. You can see the diversity of Pokemon that would fit under it by looking at which current Pokemon you could retype.


    • Igglybuff/Jiggypuff/Wigglytuff -> Sound/Fairy (Sings you to sleep)
    • Misdreavus/Mismagius -> Ghost/Sound (Based on a banshee)
    • Wailmer/Wailord -> Water/Sound (Whales are famous for their loud and haunting vocalizations)
    • Whismur/Loudred/Exploud -> Sound (Self-explanatory)
    • Spinda -> Normal/Sound (This one's a bit of a stretch compared to the others, but Spinda has an underlying theme of rhythm and dancing)
    • Chingling/Chimecho -> Psychic/Sound (Based on bells/wind chimes)
    • Kriketot/Kriketune -> Bug/Sound (Based on crickets, and Kricketune is also basically a violin that strums itself)
    • Chatot -> Sound/Flying (Based on a talking parrot, also literally a musical note)
    • Audino -> Normal/Sound (Based around hearing)
    • Maractus -> Grass/Sound (Based on maracas, also constantly dancing)
    • Meloetta -> Sound/Psychic and Sound/Fighting (Based around singing and dancing, also incorporates sheet music in her character design)
    • Litleo/Pyroar -> Fire/Sound (Themed around roaring, signature move is Noble Roar)
    • Rillaboom -> Grass/Sound (Has a drum set and its signature move is literally called Drum Beat; making Drum Beat a different type would also encourage Rillaboom to actually use it LOL)

    For Pokemon like Noivern, Toxicitry, and Primarina, look at Celebi and Jirachi. Or look at the countless cute Pokemon that weren't made Fairy type in Gen VI. Not every Pokemon based around music or loud noises should be Sound type just like not every cute Pokemon or Pokemon based on mythological creatures should be Fairy type.

    Moves like Bug Buzz or Metal Sound would stay their types for the same reason Fire Punch is Fire type instead of Fighting type.

    Do we need a Sound type? Not really. But we also didn't need a Fairy type, yet we still got one and it has arguably made the games better.
     
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    1,178
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    -"Dark and serious" stories. Apparently some people are into Pokémon stories that take themselves too seriously, and believe that edgyness, endless dialogues, bad words galore, alcohol, blood, murdering/suicide and darkness make a more mature story.

    I believe it's the opposite though. The Pokémon universe and mechanics are just a terrible foundation for mature or convoluted and overly-dramatic stories, and the attempts I've seen in fan games of making one just ended up making those stories actually look more childish and silly. Better be self-aware and realize that Pokémon just doesn't give you the tools to make a serious story.

    -Sound, Light, Gas, etc. types:

    It would be a mess because many Pokémon would be forced to get retypings to have enough of these types. And it would be a mess for attacks, like imagine having to retype every sound or light based move which are spread across multiple types into Sound and Light type.
     
    64
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    • Seen Oct 29, 2021
    -Sound, Light, Gas, etc. types:

    It would be a mess because many Pokémon would be forced to get retypings to have enough of these types. And it would be a mess for attacks, like imagine having to retype every sound or light based move which are spread across multiple types into Sound and Light type.
    Didn't we already go through this with the Fairy type?
     
    46,464
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  • Idc about new types or stuff like the Battle Frontier. I've never even used the Battle Frontier anyway, it can stay gone.
    Megas were a neat idea, but I don't miss em at all. The G-max/Dynamax stuff can go too. I'd rather have new permanent evolutions than temporary stuff that will be gone next gen.

    Story wise: Less hand-holding would be nice. I'm not particularly interested in seeing a dark game though. Pokemon is a kids game in essence.

    This though:
    Lack of voice acting is one I can probably do without though, but seeing Piers sing in SwSh kind of cemented how weird it was that the game was still silent at parts. :x

    Voice acting for dialogues would be great. That Piers scene was super awkward to me lol.
    I imagine it would be a pain for their localizations teams though as they'd need to VA all the dialogues in every language. (still sounds possible at least imo)
     
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    Didn't we already go through this with the Fairy type?

    The Fairy type addition didn't make any Pokémon lose its former type except the 3-4 lines that lost Normal, which is essentially the "No type". Adding more types would require start messing with typings a lot more. Like Primarina and Toxtricity, which would fit the Sound type perfectly but would have to lose either Water/Fairy or Electric/Poison respectively.

    Fairy also didn't retype any attacking moves. Pre-existing moves retyped to Fairy, such as Moonlight and Charm, are status moves so it doesn't matter. All of the attacking Fairy moves were introduced in Gen 6 along the type itself.

    But we do have many Sound and Light based moves already. Sound attacks from different types (Boomburst, Bug Buzz, Snarl, Overdrive, etc.) would probably have to be retyped, as well as many Light based damaging moves such as Power Gem, Flash Cannon, Luster Purge, Solar Beam, and Doom Desire. Many Pokémon would lose valuable STAB moves.
     
    3,315
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    I've heard the sound type brought up so much over the years. I have zero interest in this or really any new type. Also, I have to agree with Dawn, an open world Pokemon game made by Game Freak would be barebones. I think we got a good taste of what it would be like from the wild area in ss. I would be a lot more interested in another studio doing it and having total control, at least then maybe it could be enjoyable. As for a better story in Pokemon I just don't care at all? I never liked Pokemon for the story, in fact I find it just gets in the way of what I want to do.
     

    Geewithabee

    Mess with the Grookey, you get the bazookey.
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    Ugh, the Sound and Light types. I'm so glad to see there are others who are sick of seeing this over the years.

    Trainers actively participating in combat is another one I've seen.
     
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    I dont want a return to 2d pixel while i love the style and how it looked in gen 5 i think they still have a lot to do with 3d like the new pokemon snap game. if having too many pokemon to model then just have like 100-200 pokemon in the game and make really good models and animations. i think going back to an old style just makes them want to also keep the gameplay like the old games too and not innovate. if they are trying new things with the art style they should also change up the gameplay too
     
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  • i'm not sure if i'd go so far as to say that i wouldn't want this, but i have mixed feelings towards the difficulty settings that most people in the fandom seem to want so much. :s

    if we take b2w2 for example, i don't think it was even really executed that well. at most, it was a few levels of a difference, which isn't difficult really if you're the grindy type. at the same time though, i'm not exactly sure what the right way to implement difficulty settings would be. would it be an increase in level as well as more competitive movesets? would it be adjusting the AIs to better predict what moves the player is going to make?

    i dunno. i suppose from my perspective, it doesn't matter how smart or competitive you make the AIs, if you outlevel them for the most part, you win. because of this, it removes the more challenging aspect unless you cap yourself to the gym leaders' highest pokemon.

    and see, that's the thing with difficulty in general. unless the player handicaps themselves in some way or fashion, it's very easy to trivialise a large part of the game. i may get laughed at for this, but i think SM/USUM were good examples of decently difficult games with totem pokemon. sure, there were ways to cheese them, but for those who didn't take that route, they can be rather annoying to face, and i think this is probably the route pokemon games should go as far as difficulty is concerned. in other words, make something naturally difficult by virtue of making it stronger in stats so the player would have to think of ways to overcome the initial disadvantage.
     
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    24,874
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    - Full Pokemon list. Describes this more as indifference than unwanted. Asks for a good variety of Pokemon during the main game, but nothing more. (Dislikes games with tons of Pokemon locked to postgame, for example.)

    Stems partially from some designs being similar. Refers to Pokemon like Tauros + Bouffalant, Amoongus + Shiinotic + Parasect, Jumpluff + Whimsicott + Eldegoss, Pikachu clones, Mareep + Wooloo, and so on. Recognizes their different typing and sometimes roles. Acknowledges limited time and resources too. Prefers 449 vibrant, polished models over 898 flat ones.

    - Mega Evolutions. Made them too powerful. Centered teams around them. Created only so many too. Reduced the (perceived) number of good strategies drastically.

    Would have been acceptable with far more Mega Evolution options. Helped some Pokemon in dire need. Wants "a team with Mega Mawile", however, not "a Mega Mawile team".
     
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  • Personally I think if they were to add a new type after Fairy I think It would be a sound type, and I do agree with you on the whole "sound type is too much of a broad statement" which can be fixed with a simple word change to something like vibration or something. Along with the fact that we do have a lot of moves that are "sound" base, Growl, Disarming Voice, Metal sound, roar, screech, perish song, sing, chatter, etc the list goes on. And the Pokémon with "sound" base designs or features are, the Whismur line, chatot, meloetta. noivern, jigglypuff kricketune, etc. Personally I think a "sound" based type would be a perfect addition to the Pokémon series 🤗
     
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