^Very much this.Regardless of our opinions on the new Chairman, the Democratic party represents the only viable alternative to the Republicans. They have the responsibility of leading the movement of those who are opposed to the current Republican order.
^Very much this.
I don't give a right **** right now how establishment the new DNC chair is. The issue right now is getting rid of Trump, not draining the Democratic party of center-right globalists. I don't care if it's Hillary again in 2020, anything is better.
The third-party/non-voting Bernie-or-busters need to get a damn grip and just vote to get Trump out of office. Please save your idealistic socialist or libertarian utopia for another time. And at this point, it's 100% official to me....if you don't vote, you have absolutely no right to complain and you need to sit in a corner of a dark room and rethink your life and all the choices you've made that brought you up to this point.
What? I mean, what?
You have no right to tell people who to vote for, especially when the candidate is absolute trash and especially when the DNC (Who, like you, have clearly learned nothing from Trump) screw over any candidate who has a platform that doesn't revolve around corporation pay outs
What I learned, good sir, from Trump is that voting third-party like I did was an idealistic mistake during an election that was more like a time of crisis and that when the country needed my vote the most, I chose to vote for a candidate who had zero chance of winning instead of Hillary. Honor before reason and all that...I can see now what bollocks it is. I'm not saying somewhere down the road we shouldn't start giving third-parties a chance, I'm the last person who will say we should stick to a two-party system. But in a time when the United States is under the very realistic threat of devolving into a dictatorship if he is left unchecked, it's practical to put dreams of third-parties on hold until we get the demagogue and his Breitbart compatriot out of office.What? I mean, what?
You have no right to tell people who to vote for, especially when the candidate is absolute trash and especially when the DNC (Who, like you, have clearly learned nothing from Trump) screw over any candidate who has a platform that doesn't revolve around corporation pay outs
What I learned, good sir, from Trump is that voting third-party like I did was an idealistic mistake during an election that was more like a time of crisis and that when the country needed my vote the most, I chose to vote for a candidate who had zero chance of winning instead of Hillary. Honor before reason and all that...I can see now what bollocks it is. I'm not saying somewhere down the road we shouldn't start giving third-parties a chance, I'm the last person who will say we should stick to a two-party system. But in a time when the United States is under the very realistic threat of devolving into a dictatorship if he is left unchecked, it's practical to put dreams of third-parties on hold until we get the demagogue and his Breitbart compatriot out of office.
And of course nobody has the right to tell you who to vote for, but that will never stop anyone from criticizing you for your choice. Better get used to it because that's going to stick around long after Trump is gone.
You're living in a fairytale if you think Clinton wouldn't of also signed a bunch of crap for rich companies, appointed a bunch of unqualified people for cash and pushed the world to the brink of war.
Hillary losing, in the long run, will be a gift to the world. Trump is going to damage the GOP very, very badly. And right now, the only big political voice taking him on is Sanders. If we can use Trump to kill off the neocon mess once and for all we'll be laughing.
You're living in a fairytale if you think Clinton wouldn't of also signed a bunch of crap for rich companies, appointed a bunch of unqualified people for cash and pushed the world to the brink of war.
Hillary losing, in the long run, will be a gift to the world. Trump is going to damage the GOP very, very badly. And right now, the only big political voice taking him on is Sanders. If we can use Trump to kill off the neocon mess once and for all we'll be laughing.
The problem is that it's obvious the Democrats would rather their own establishment candidate lose than Sanders to win, so the only choice Sanders has left is to organize a third-party of his own in manner not seen since the days of Teddy Roosevelt and even then, Roosevelt lost. There has never been, in the history of our country, a third-party or independent candidate that has won the presidency with the exception of George Washington. So forgive me if I'm skeptical to any possible success a third-party might have at this point.
It might be more practical to force a reform in the Democratic party or, like Livewire suggested, form a coalition of representatives to appeal to the Clinton and Sanders supporting factions of the core voters. Grassroots movements and electing new Senators/Representatives is the best chance the people have at taking back the Democratic party and putting a leash on Trump - necessary, as it appears very few GOP representatives feel inclined to do so themselves.
But of course, come 2020, the most practical solution in my view is to vote against Trump for a candidate who stands an actual chance of winning, which will most likely be a Democrat candidate unless whatever third-party Sander cooks up has a chance at gaining a voter base somewhere in the 50-million range.
Of course we also need to give up the infantile notion that not-voting makes you some kind of rebel or that voting doesn't do anything. The voter turn-out in America is depressing, but I will throw you a bone here in that this election is a blessing in disguise; I see more people than ever becoming aware that you can't just ignore politics. They might even give a third-party more of a chance. So who knows, maybe you are right and I'm wrong and if that's the case, it'll be the happiest mistake I've ever made.
But for now, I'll stick to my skepticism. I preferred Sanders in the race, but unless the core left can convince Democrats to see him as a chance of taking back their seats or we change house in the midterms, the end result is likely to be the same: a center-right neoliberal globalist candidate. I'd still take that over Trump.
If the next Dem candidate is Sanders or someone like him, all the better. If not...eh, better than the current loonie we have farting in the Oval.
Clinton wouldn't have made healthcare any worse, nor would she have acted in Syria any differently than what Trump has done so far. Betty DeVos wouldn't be head of the Education department. The head of the EPA wouldn't be a climate change denier.
I'm not too sure how much damage Trump can do to the GOP :S Could you explain a bit more about that?
Whilst all of those things are true and valid, we'd still see completely inappropriate, bought positions under Clinton. We'd still have seen her allow the pipeline mess to happen, we'd still see big tax breaks for the rich, we'd be at war, or rapidly heading to war, with Russia and we'd still see the poor suffer the most.
Trump is going to damage their image almost beyond repair. Give it a year or two, let him turn America into an Oligarchy like Russia. He'll cost the Repubs. the working class vote for decades to come. Him winning the rust belt is instrumental in showing the workers of America that neither side of the neo-coin is to be trusted.
I'm not really convinced. Obama rejected the pipeline, do you really think Clinton would've turned around and reversed his position? I don't think Clinton could scrounge up tax breaks as immense as the one's Trump has turned out. Not too convinced that there'd be a war or confrontation with Russia as well.
The trouble with turning a country into an oligarchy like Russia is that you might not come back. And what evidence is out there that he's costing the Republicans the working class vote? As much as I would hope for that to be true, I haven't read anything to that effect so far.
On the flip side, to the extent that the Republicans are losing working class support, is Perez and the DNC on the right track to exploiting that?