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Trapinch --> Charizard?

Redstar

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    If you look at this early artwork for Pokemon, you can see a slightly different Pikachu and Charizard, with Charizard itself having a much larger jaw akin to Trapinch:

    Trapinch --> Charizard?
    Trapinch --> Charizard?


    I've heard that Trapinch was originally intended to be the pre-evolution for Charizard, but was scrapped and not introduced until the third generation, and Charizard was slightly redesigned and became the final Fire starter.

    This is a situation similar to the whole "Butterfree/Venomoth" hypothesis, so I was wondering if anyone had an opinion or could find some facts to back it up, such as interviews or the like?

    I also know that Torkoal, Tropius, and the Spheal line were the original third-gen starters, so there's been a lot of mixing-and-matching before the games became finalized.
     
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    xXI JOE IXx

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    Where do you find out all this stuff? You might be on to something
     

    Tudj

    HeartGold :P
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    Hmmm, they sure look fairly similar, and it seems right they did some maxing to get a precise line of starters, but I couldn't imagine Trapinch being a fire-type, like what could it really do?
     

    Redstar

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    Tudj said:
    Hmmm, they sure look fairly similar, and it seems right they did some maxing to get a precise line of starters, but I couldn't imagine Trapinch being a fire-type, like what could it really do?
    Click to expand...
    Open that big mouth of his and shoot out blasts of fire? It has has the right coloration, and note Growlithe, for example, isn't exactly on fire but is still a Fire type.

    And JOE, I found this out because the third gen starters-thing was observed and pointed out before, and it's possible there was an old interview that mentioned a "big-headed orange Pokemon originally before Charizard" on a Japanese site.
     
    Timbjerr

    Timbjerr

    [color=Indigo][i][b]T-o-X-i-C[/b][/i][/color]
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    You're always on to some profound theory, huh Redstar? XD

    This one looks like it might be possible, seeing as how Trapinch's fully evolved for mis a dragon-type and Charizard is quite dragonic, possibly meant to be the GenI fire starter before they realized that Charmander was more marketable. :P

    However, as is the story with Gyarados, it was probably scrapped because they wanted the dragon-type to be exclusive to the Dragonite family, so other dragonic genI pokemon were re-typed to flying (Charizard, Gyarados, and Aerodactyl).
     

    Redstar

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    Yeah, that's probably how it went. Trapinch just isn't "cute" enough for the role, but definitely deserved a second chance and got it in third generation, though became more Bug than Dragon in the process.

    If I could just find that old interview, then we might know some more details on that "big-headed orange Pokemon" that didn't make the cut. I was reminded of the whole thing after seeing this art, and made the connection between the two.
     
    Sydian

    Sydian

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    From what I remember of my "tastes" back in the day, I don't think I would have ever chosen Trapinch to start a journey. It's the right color, yes, and it looks like it might could spew some Embers, but if that was the original gen I fire starter, I'm kind of glad they scrapped the idea. Then again, had Trapinch made the cut, no one would have known the difference back then anyway, considering there was only one generation to go by for quite a while. No one would have cared too much for it.

    I'd compare it to the other picture you posted so that I could say something else, but the pic isn't showing up. You sure you coded it right?
     

    Redstar

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    SilverSmeargleSplatter said:
    From what I remember of my "tastes" back in the day, I don't think I would have ever chosen Trapinch to start a journey. It's the right color, yes, and it looks like it might could spew some Embers, but if that was the original gen I fire starter, I'm kind of glad they scrapped the idea. Then again, had Trapinch made the cut, no one would have known the difference back then anyway, considering there was only one generation to go by for quite a while. No one would have cared too much for it.

    I'd compare it to the other picture you posted so that I could say something else, but the pic isn't showing up. You sure you coded it right?
    Click to expand...
    Well remember that Pokemon were originally more "monster-like", as evidenced by the early sprites and concepts. So monster-and-animal-like Pokemon would fit the theme. But Trapinch probably looked different, like having a tail.
     
    Sydian

    Sydian

    fake your death.
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    Wow, that concept art makes them really look closely related, and even more evidence is when you look at Vibrava and Flygon; they share no traits with Trapinch whatsoever.
     

    CriticalCrisis

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    Actually, I've heard this a few years back. Someone was talking about it, and everyone called him an idiot until he pulled out an interview... It was in Japanese, but a quick trip to Google Translate did turn up something about "Fire starter underwent many changes" and that one stage was "big-headed with buggy eyes". It was just one small section, but it dealt with how much work is gone into designing the Pokemon.
     

    Redstar

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    CriticalCrisis said:
    Actually, I've heard this a few years back. Someone was talking about it, and everyone called him an idiot until he pulled out an interview... It was in Japanese, but a quick trip to Google Translate did turn up something about "Fire starter underwent many changes" and that one stage was "big-headed with buggy eyes". It was just one small section, but it dealt with how much work is gone into designing the Pokemon.
    Click to expand...
    Really? I was there too, which is where I found out about this... But that thread is long gone and I don't know how to find the interview. Do you know where it is?
     
    The Bringer!

    The Bringer!

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    SilverSmeargleSplatter said:
    Wow, that concept art makes them really look closely related, and even more evidence is when you look at Vibrava and Flygon; they share no traits with Trapinch whatsoever.
    Click to expand...

    Then I'm guessing you don't know what he's actually based off of, do you? =P

    Trapinch is based off of an antlion (I don't know if it was in gen1, but now it's based off of one) which is a larvae that traps prey in holes that it lives at the center of and it has huge jaws. Later, it turns into a fly-thingy that looks very much like vibrava.

    Pokemon evolution isn't all about appearance, the actual concept matters too. That's why I get irked when people critisize remoraid --> octillery or flout about the venomoth/butterfree theory that is completely false.

    But, to be on topic, I can believe that trapinch was once going to be the fire starter. Back then they were much more monster like.
    (And I don't care what anyone says, I think trapinch is cute =3 )
     
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    Redstar

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    The Bringer! said:
    Then I'm guessing you don't know what he's actually based off of, do you? =P

    Trapinch is based off of an antlion (I don't know if it was in gen1, but now it's based off of one) which is a larvae that traps prey in holes that it lives at the center of and it has huge jaws. Later, it turns into a fly-thingy that looks very much like vibrava.

    Pokemon evolution isn't all about appearance, the actual concept matters too. That's why I get irked when people critisize remoraid --> octillery or flout about the venomoth/butterfree theory that is completely false.
    Click to expand...
    Trapinch actually doesn't look much like an ant lion, so the possibility it was once intended for a different line is feasible. Slap a tail on it and I could picture it being a first-stage form for Charizard.

    The Bringer! said:
    (And I don't care what anyone says, I think trapinch is cute =3 )
    Click to expand...
    Definitely agreed here. haha
     

    CriticalCrisis

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    Redstar said:
    Really? I was there too, which is where I found out about this... But that thread is long gone and I don't know how to find the interview. Do you know where it is?
    Click to expand...
    No, I don't think I can help. But I can say that the old thread was pretty convincing. Hopefully someone will get something.
     

    ShinjisLover

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    I can see some similarities between the two Pokémon and imaging Trapinch to be a pre-evolution of Charizard isn't difficult. .​
     

    xxChazxx

    It's Been a While
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    It makes sense logically, they do look similar and Trapinch does have a winged creature along his evolution line. I'd say it's very plausible.


    Also, why did Pinsir not evolve into Heracross? That always confused me.
     

    Niprop

    The Fighting Porygon Team
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    Let's see here, Change the eyes to resemble Charizard, strip away some of that carapace, attach a few scales, and slap a tail onto it, and, here, you've got a Pre-evo for Charizard!


    I don't think Trapinch is exactly what that "Big headed Bug-eyed" pok    émon was, but I think it was based off of the concept art, like Gastrodon was changed a bit from it's original concept before being released in generation 4.
     
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