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US President Obama expands Afganistan War

Should the President have expanded the Afganistan War?

  • Yes, and we must finish our objectives there.

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Yes, but our commitments must not be open-ended.

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • No, we should have began withrawal ASAP.

    Votes: 8 57.1%

  • Total voters
    14
  • 9,468
    Posts
    16
    Years

    US President Obama expands Afganistan War

    Mr Obama said Afghanistan should not be likened to Vietnam​


    US President Barack Obama has delivered a speech spelling out his review of Afghan strategy and has ordered a surge of 30,000 additional US soldiers.
    Mr Obama also set out how the US would approach its exit strategy and urged allies to send more soldiers.
    The new deployment over six months will bring America's troop strength in the country to more than 100,000, in the fight against Taliban militants.
    Mr Obama believes the surge will help prepare the handover to Afghan forces.

    Taliban threat

    Mr Obama delivered his nationally televised speech to cadets at the West Point military academy in New York.
    He began by stressing that the US was in Afghanistan because of the 9/11 attacks on America by al-Qaeda militants.

    'Common security at stake'

    Calling on America's allies to boost their troop commitment, Mr Obama said: "Some have already provided additional troops, and we are confident that there will be further contributions in the days and weeks ahead.

    Nato officials said on Tuesday that President Obama had asked European allies to contribute between 5,000 and 10,000 new troops to Afghanistan.
    But President Nicolas Sarkozy has ruled out deploying more soldiers, although he might send military trainers, his special envoy to Afghanistan told AFP news agency.
    French Defence Minister Herve Morin said earlier: "If there were to be an additional effort, the only effort that would make sense would be in terms of Afghan army and police training."
    In Berlin, Chancellor Angela Merkel told a news conference Germany would wait until after a 28 January conference in London on Afghanistan before deciding on any troop increases.
    On Monday, Britain confirmed it was sending 500 more troops, taking the UK's total deployment to 10,000.
    Italy has also said it will increase its force, although without saying by how much.

    Oh well, compromise number of 30,000 Troop surge. I'm still kinda torn now on whether to support this or not. =/

    But meh, I'm leaning towards supporting...
     
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  • 4,294
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Age 31
    • Ohio
    • Seen Jun 6, 2017
    I'm against all wars, which is what this is.

    What I don't like this is that we are focusing everything on getting the Taliban out, while the Taliban shouldn't be at the top of our list. Al quada should be.

    Meh, I am split on this. Even though I am against wars, this is a war to spread freedom.

    I might also be misinformed too. :/
     

    Agent Cobalt

    Proud U.S. Army Soldier
  • 191
    Posts
    15
    Years
    Compromise? His top general asked him for 60,000! 40,000 as a bare minimum! Not only will Obama not even give the minimum requested by his Generals, he only is willing to commit half the requested amount laced with the proclamation that we'll be pulling troops out soon anyway. If I was an insurgent and just heard his speech at West Point, this would make my day. Except I'm not, I'm a soldier, and I think this is horrible. I'll support him when he sends the amount of troops his forces on the ground requested rather than treating us as commodities to improve his standing with the hard left. Took him three months to do absolutely nothing and make a speech attacking the previous president, troops in Iraq, and make the war about the economy.
     
    Last edited:
  • 9,468
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    16
    Years
    Shouldn't we be getting out of there by now?

    You might be confusing this with Iraq, we'll be out of there by next year.

    Now this war is apparently going to take a while as it was framed as "the good war" by the administration.

    Quite the agressive tone there Agent Cobalt, nobody on both sides of the aisle is happy with this as "The far left" is calling for no new troop deployments to outright withrawal. And the remaining Republicans (as you have shown) want higher troop amounts.

    Heck even some members of Congress are calling for a formal vote on the troop surge. :/
     

    JP

    wut?
  • 2,163
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Age 33
    • USA
    • Seen Dec 13, 2019
    Ow man, this is really disappointing. My friend is joining the Army sooner than later and this most likely means he'll get shipped out over there at some point.

    Really wish Obama hadn't done this. I'm not too fond of another war as well.
     

    Agent Cobalt

    Proud U.S. Army Soldier
  • 191
    Posts
    15
    Years
    Quite the agressive tone there Agent Cobalt, nobody on both sides of the aisle is happy with this as "The far left" is calling for no new troop deployments to outright withrawal.
    ...which is why he's appeasing them by sending half the requested amount and less than the bare minimum, so he won't look like he's some whacky militarist expanding the war. He's also giving time tables.
    And the remaining Republicans (as you have shown) want higher troop amounts.
    Right. However this isn't about being a Republican, this is about being a soldier. This isn't about the Commander In Chief ignoring the minority opposition; this is about him ignoring the military he is supposed to command.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
  • 4,307
    Posts
    15
    Years
    If he commits no troops, he's an uncompromising liberal. If he commits 60k troops, he's a warmonger and a traitor to the party. If he commits 30k troops, he's a pushover trying to appease both sides. He's already got the anti-war people calling him a traitor and the pro-war people calling him a pansy. He's trying to compromise, but people these days are too polarized. Honestly, though, I don't know what he should do. Public opinion is going to be against him no matter what, because things are bad and whenever things are bad we blame the people in charge. What's going to have the best effect? I'm not sure. No troops is probably out of the question; I may be anti-war, but if we just pull out, a lot of people are going to get hurt. Do we need 60k, though?

    A lot of people keep talking about the generals as though they're all-knowing war gods, which can't be true since I seem to remember a lot of generals offering contrary opinions during the Bush years. I don't know how the military works on the upper levels, but if it's anything like most hierarchical systems in the world (businesses and governments and such), the people on top really have no clue what they're talking about. If that were the case, then I'd guess that squad leaders and such would probably have a better idea of battlefield needs than the higher-ups. I'm probably completely wrong, though; I really know very little about the military, to be honest.
     

    Agent Cobalt

    Proud U.S. Army Soldier
  • 191
    Posts
    15
    Years
    If he commits no troops, he's an uncompromising liberal. If he commits 60k troops, he's a warmonger and a traitor to the party. If he commits 30k troops, he's a pushover trying to appease both sides. He's already got the anti-war people calling him a traitor and the pro-war people calling him a pansy. He's trying to compromise, but people these days are too polarized.
    A war with American lives involved should never be a compromise. The object of war is victory, not prolonged involvement.
    Honestly, though, I don't know what he should do. Public opinion is going to be against him no matter what, because things are bad and whenever things are bad we blame the people in charge. What's going to have the best effect? I'm not sure. No troops is probably out of the question; I may be anti-war, but if we just pull out, a lot of people are going to get hurt. Do we need 60k, though?
    War shouldn't be about public opinion. A Commander In Chief should do what is necessary and proper to bring victory in a just war. Obama himself has called this a war of necessity, so his main objective should be winning it and not worrying about poll numbers. A man who would let his poll numbers prevent him from executing just wars doesn't belong in the White House. This is no different than Lyndon Johnson playing politics with the Vietnam War by selectively choosing which targets American forces could bomb rather than letting the military do its job and end the war quickly. All this indecisiveness does is get more people killed and prolong conflict.
    A lot of people keep talking about the generals as though they're all-knowing war gods, which can't be true since I seem to remember a lot of generals offering contrary opinions during the Bush years. I don't know how the military works on the upper levels, but if it's anything like most hierarchical systems in the world (businesses and governments and such), the people on top really have no clue what they're talking about. If that were the case, then I'd guess that squad leaders and such would probably have a better idea of battlefield needs than the higher-ups. I'm probably completely wrong, though; I really know very little about the military, to be honest.
    Most of those generals were retired, were opponents of the president politically, or making suggestions that the president did in fact listen to. So armchair generals, the Colin Powells of the world, and every officer with something to gain by criticizing war efforts. Otherwise though, the main leadership like General David Petraeus, suggested more troops for Iraq and Bush supplied them in the troop surge. I'm not a fan of officers, especially guys like my buddy that go to ROTC and suddenly outrank guys that have been in for years, but the generals by and large have been around the block and are on the ground with the rest of the troops and know what's going on. These aren't armchair generals on the sidelines that don't understand the situation. Coincidentally General McChrystal was picked by Obama to be the Commander of Afghanistan Forces who he said knew what he was doing should be listened to since he was right for the job, and now after giving a 66 page report showing why we need 60,000 more troops, he isn't listening.
     

    jasonresno

    [fight through it]
  • 1,663
    Posts
    19
    Years
    If he commits no troops, he's an uncompromising liberal. If he commits 60k troops, he's a warmonger and a traitor to the party. If he commits 30k troops, he's a pushover trying to appease both sides. He's already got the anti-war people calling him a traitor and the pro-war people calling him a pansy. He's trying to compromise, but people these days are too polarized. Honestly, though, I don't know what he should do. Public opinion is going to be against him no matter what, because things are bad and whenever things are bad we blame the people in charge. What's going to have the best effect? I'm not sure. No troops is probably out of the question; I may be anti-war, but if we just pull out, a lot of people are going to get hurt. Do we need 60k, though?

    A lot of people keep talking about the generals as though they're all-knowing war gods, which can't be true since I seem to remember a lot of generals offering contrary opinions during the Bush years. I don't know how the military works on the upper levels, but if it's anything like most hierarchical systems in the world (businesses and governments and such), the people on top really have no clue what they're talking about. If that were the case, then I'd guess that squad leaders and such would probably have a better idea of battlefield needs than the higher-ups. I'm probably completely wrong, though; I really know very little about the military, to be honest.

    This. So. This.

    It's sad that a majority of Americans seem to be war mongerers and a majority of Americans seem to think that these generals are infallible. Which, time in and time out, is not true.

    I'm not enthused about him sending any troops over to be honest with you guys. I just don't want any more people to have to die for politics like all the lives wasted in Iraq.

    All that matters to me is that he has a plan and that it's a plan that can work.
     
  • 10,769
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    The object of war is victory, not prolonged involvement.War shouldn't be about public opinion.
    The military certainly shouldn't be able to decide things and expect everyone to follow them. It's a hammer and all it sees are nails. It needs checks and balances like everything else.

    I don't know what kind of effect 30,000 or even 60,000 soldiers would have in Afghanistan - "the eater of armies" - but I'm sure it's going to confuse people into thinking that only a military solution can "win" in Afghanistan and that if, for some reason, the war isn't "won" it was only because there wasn't a strong enough force.
     

    jasonresno

    [fight through it]
  • 1,663
    Posts
    19
    Years
    The military certainly shouldn't be able to decide things and expect everyone to follow them. It's a hammer and all it sees are nails. It needs checks and balances like everything else.

    I don't know what kind of effect 30,000 or even 60,000 soldiers would have in Afghanistan - "the eater of armies" - but I'm sure it's going to confuse people into thinking that only a military solution can "win" in Afghanistan and that if, for some reason, the war isn't "won" it was only because there wasn't a strong enough force.

    This again. Another intelligent post in a political thread on PC, I'm shocked.
     

    Agent Cobalt

    Proud U.S. Army Soldier
  • 191
    Posts
    15
    Years
    The military certainly shouldn't be able to decide things and expect everyone to follow them. It's a hammer and all it sees are nails. It needs checks and balances like everything else.
    Yeah, and it's called the Constitution. The problem isn't that the military doesn't have sovereignty over itself, the problem is that there's an ineffective Commander In Chief. The checks and balances for the military are the Congress. Regardless, that has nothing to do with what I said. Public opinion shouldn't guide wars, those fighting them should. The Commander In Chief should listen to his officers and not the polls.
    I don't know what kind of effect 30,000 or even 60,000 soldiers would have in Afghanistan - "the eater of armies" - but I'm sure it's going to confuse people into thinking that only a military solution can "win" in Afghanistan and that if, for some reason, the war isn't "won" it was only because there wasn't a strong enough force.
    The 60,000 would help achieve the same results in Afghanistan that we had in Iraq. A troop surge would help alleviate strain in certain areas and clear out strongholds for insurgents. No, numbers aren't everything. The Soviets proved that. However the Soviets were incompetent, and those before them were cowards. We accomplished more in our invasion of Afghanistan than the USSR did their entire war there. We've been able to reconnect with the Northern Alliance, overthrow the Taliban, secure gas pipelines and resources, and force the terrorists into hiding along the border. What problems we have left now, yes, can be dealt with with a strong enough force.
     

    Feign

    Clain
  • 4,293
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    Just so I get this straight, would a soldier be willing to sacrifice their own life under the orders of a superior, regardless of that order?

    Cobalt, you make it sound as though there shouldn't be any room for mediation, that is to say, that Obama should send all the troops required. Yet you speak of the soldiers as a commodity... a tool... I realize there is a war occurring though and decisions will be made...

    I'm not even sure what soldiers are fighting for down over there... If it is freedom from the oppressed people then you'd think those that follow in said belief would eventually make the Taliban (etc) become extinct...

    The thing is... an idea can never die... and it would seem that this is what the Taliban are fighting for (the rest being power).

    Kind of like the whole - when you kill one thing three more sprout right back up.

    Then how to you combat an idea...? Currently the only logical solution (it would seem) would be to blanket the area or leave it to their own devices...
     

    Spearow

    mr. nobody
  • 275
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    The thing is... an idea can never die... and it would seem that this is what the Taliban are fighting for (the rest being power).

    I'll admit it's hard for anyone (even with the advanced state of journalism through media) to know the state and inner workings of a country halfway across the world.

    But it's always seemed to me that the line between "insurgent/radical" and "civilian" in the Middle East is a little blurred. It's rarely a clear-cut thing who is on "our side" and who the "bad guys" are. Part of the reason why combat is particularly stressful there (and why it was horrible in Vietnam), or so I hear.

    I guess that's modern warfare for ya, though. We don't do that whole you-wear-this-uniform-I'll-wear-this-one-FIGHT thing too much anymore. It's all civil, internal conflict.
     

    Uecil

    [img]https://i.ibb.co/4jfYrCT/tHdpHUB.png[/img]
  • 2,568
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    im against all wars what is the point of sending out more soldiers if theyre gonna get blown up anyway what a waste like what are we fighting over? nothing basically cant they just like have a chat over a coffee break or somehting?
     

    Feign

    Clain
  • 4,293
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    15
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    • Seen Jan 25, 2023
    I'll admit it's hard for anyone (even with the advanced state of journalism through media) to know the state and inner workings of a country halfway across the world.

    But it's always seemed to me that the line between "insurgent/radical" and "civilian" in the Middle East is a little blurred. It's rarely a clear-cut thing who is on "our side" and who the "bad guys" are. Part of the reason why combat is particularly stressful there (and why it was horrible in Vietnam), or so I hear.

    I guess that's modern warfare for ya, though. We don't do that whole you-wear-this-uniform-I'll-wear-this-one-FIGHT thing too much anymore. It's all civil, internal conflict.

    Not to mention the implications of the Vietnam war (including the media blackout of an Indonesian planned genocide)...

    The media is a powerful tool... It can easily shape our thoughts...

    Of course it is easy for me to say this, but I wish for there to be no fighting whatsoever...

    Regardless of what the Americans are fighting for, it would be difficult to answer for what the others (such as the Taliban) fight for. Some would say for religion, others for power, and still others for themselves and others against America...

    The problem isn't really the soldiers, it is those that indoctrinate them, those that have the power of grandeur and charisma... Look at the Stamford Prison Experiment, given power 25% of the guards took their role as the guard too far, despite this being a college experiment. Thus the soldier feels the same as the guard, they have power over another. That empowering allows for easier usage as a soldier. Perhaps this is a good thing though... moving as a unit another words. But when it gets to be excessive, then it can be brought into question.

    Will we be stuck fighting power for ever?
     
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