What happens after you die?

[Vapo41]

Exactly Tek and i's point. That is the thought that could occur if you don't believe in the afterlife. Very morbid. God changes the person for the better, not the worse. He loves everyone and wants them all to enter Heaven. You will be a changed person in the sense of your beliefs, morals, values, character, etc.

Can I just

"God changes the person for the better, not the worse."

...And yet there are people who use God to preach hate against homosexuality. Are you implying that's a good thing?

Also, thanks for letting me know I'm going to hell. I really appreciate it.

 

[GreenFlame]

Religion? Think about it, if there were a God, why is there so much evil and suffering in the world? Why would he create people who do not believe in him?

And what makes humans "special" enough to have God? How do we know Pigs don't have a God?

Anyway, my theory in death is that after you die you are instantly rebirthed (reincarnated) at any point in the future as anything that has its own perspective. There is no sense of time passing, you are just instantly reborn, because when you are dead you no longer exist - you cannot sense time or anything, there is no "you".

 

[Atomic Pirate]

Heaven is a place where believers of Jesus Christ and what He did go. You also must confess your sins and ask for forgiveness. Adolf Hitler was not a Christian. We aren't a works-righteous religion. We aren't a religion at all. It is a faith. We want to go to Heaven, and live eternally with God. There will be no sin and heartache there. You are misunderstanding the parts where God destroys cities and peoples. They were evil, terrible, horrific people and enemies of God. Their babies went to Heaven. It is ones choice whether they believe it not. I'm glad you posted that, so I can clear some things up. :)

No sin, no heartache, no humanity, no free thought, no life.

Just endless, desensitized, enforced happiness.

And no matter how "evil, terrible, horrific" the people that God committed genocide on were, it's certainly not just that God would kill everyone in the cities just because a few people are bad.

I'm sorry to say this, but you believing (and to an extent rejoicing in the idea that) trillions of fantastic people are being tortured for eternity is evil, barbaric, and quite disgusting.

 

[Monophobia]

I'm sorry to say this, but you believing (and to an extent rejoicing in the idea that) trillions of fantastic people are being tortured for eternity is evil, barbaric, and quite disgusting.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. {:3}

Also, how do religions revolving around the Bible not feel that the "Noah's Ark" story was terrible. I mean, God created a flood that destroyed EVERYONE and EVERYTHING besides one man, his family, and two of every animal. I mean, if you ignore the ridiculousness that is an ark that big (physically impossible), how are they to teach kids that God killed probably billions of people? It sounds evil to me.

On that note I should mention that the Devil has only killed Job's children in the Bible as far as I know.

 

[BadPokemon]

The whole city was evil, and same with the world with the flood. Sin, and Devil cause all that chaos in the world. Jesus came down and saved us from out sins by living a perfect life and dying in the cross. He defeated death by rising from the grave. It is your choice to believe or not. One sin makes us unable to enter Heaven. That is why he saved us and forgave us. It is your choice to believe, admit, and confess your sins. Christianity actually makes logical sense. It takes more faith to believe in the Big Bang than God. Here are the chances of a planet that supports compels life being created (and this is the chance that created earth according to your theory): 1: billion, trillion, trillion, trillion , trillion, trillion, trillion+ 'nuff said.

Let's try to stay on topic, I will try to. I just had to say that.

 

[Kameken]

Perhaps, but what if the way a person murders another person is less painful than how they would die later? Say, I murdered someone by slipping rat poison into their soup. If I hadn't though, they would have gotten hit by a train the next day. Which would you rather have?

Just a thought. I mean, heck, I'd rather be killed by rat poison than a train crushing my entire body.

I think the train would be less painful, actually. Probably a near instant death.

Besides, there's not really any way for you to know how someone's going to die in the future. "He was going to die more painfully tomorrow," is a pretty poor excuse for murder.


But, y'know, love how this thread is going straight to "Your beliefs are wrong!" on both sides. Bravo.

 

[Sopheria]

The reason I'm not a fan of that idea of the afterlife is because it's belief isn't really a choice. You can't just choose to believe something, either you believe it or you don't, based on how much evidence you have. And that said, there's a ton of people in the world who haven't seen any proof or evidence that any particular religion is correct, so it's not their fault that they don't believe. So having someone's fate in the afterlife based on their beliefs really wouldn't be a fair system.

If there were a heaven and hell, I think the fairest system would be one where your fate was based on how positive an impact you had on the world after you left it. That is, did your existence result in the world being a better place than it was when you first entered it? Of course, even that wouldn't be a completely fair system since that'd be nearly impossible to quantify (though I guess if there were deities judging you then of course they'd be able to do it).

But just basing it on belief seems like it would be a really bad system. Hell would be populated with tons of very good people who happened not to hold a particular belief, while lousy people who did believe would fall through the cracks and make it into heaven (making heaven a much less pleasant place as a result). That's the problem: belief says nothing about your character or who you are as a person.

But, y'know, love how this thread is going straight to "Your beliefs are wrong!" on both sides. Bravo.

I think that was inevitable, actually. Since none of us can really know for sure what happens after death, everybody's probably going to be wrong if they proclaim to know anything for certain.

 

[DanZC]

Pffft, koff~

We all know that it was Horus who created our planet and. . . wait. No that was Zeus from Olympus. . . no, Shiva. Wait, wasn't that Odin? Or that giant turtle? To say that your God is the only true God is not only ignorant, but rude and extremely violent.

Also, there is no feasible way to verify whether or not a book written by a group of old fogeys who sat around thinking that the earth was a couple thousand years old. Why? Because they had no sense of idea, they had no ability to verify true events. The bible is a book filled with glorious fantasy and grand epics full of dazzling sorcery and great triumphs over evil.

f you truly believe that the bible is true, please look towards Homer's grand epics. Once man had the ability to write, he had the ability to spin tales of fiction. For you to deny this fact is ridiculous.

Further more, the very first story in the bible surrounding Adam and Eve is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. If indeed this all powerful being created everything, that also means he created things down to the microscopic level and the new strains of viruses we continue to discover have just 'been there' with no mention of mutation or viruses' ability to evolve over time.

The bible is the only book in the world to spread hatred and death since it's creation. It still spreads hatred and violence to this day, look at your own words and tell me they don't just seethe with distaste at any and all who do not believe the same things you do. I believe that supporting the bible just feeds the flames and justifies the killings of millions, koff~

No sin, no heartache, no humanity, no free thought, no life.

Just endless, desensitized, enforced happiness.

And no matter how "evil, terrible, horrific" the people that God committed genocide on were, it's certainly not just that God would kill everyone in the cities just because a few people are bad.

I'm sorry to say this, but you believing (and to an extent rejoicing in the idea that) trillions of fantastic people are being tortured for eternity is evil, barbaric, and quite disgusting.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. {:3}

Also, how do religions revolving around the Bible not feel that the "Noah's Ark" story was terrible. I mean, God created a flood that destroyed EVERYONE and EVERYTHING besides one man, his family, and two of every animal. I mean, if you ignore the ridiculousness that is an ark that big (physically impossible), how are they to teach kids that God killed probably billions of people? It sounds evil to me.

On that note I should mention that the Devil has only killed Job's children in the Bible as far as I know.

OK. We get it. You're atheist. You hate Christianity.
You don't have to impose your Atheism on others just as I don't have to impose my Catholicism on others. You are obviously targeting Christians with your posts. Now, I for one, do not want to get into a religious debate, because this isn't a religious debate thread. But if you want to debate something PM me please so we can talk.

Now back on topic.

 

[BadPokemon]

OK. We get it. You're atheist. You hate Christianity.
You don't have to impose your Atheism on others just as I don't have to impose my Catholicism on others. You are obviously targeting Christians with your posts. Now, I for one, do not want to get into a religious debate, because this isn't a religious debate thread. But if you want to debate something PM me please so we can talk.

Now back on topic.

Make that vm, so I can join in, too. :)

Let's just drop the religion debate going on here and discuss life after death. The problem with the idea of if your good works trumps your bad ones is that you think. I may go donate a gazillion dollars, but cancel it out by thinking bad about someone, bad thoughts, etc. it would be inevitable that nobody would go to Heaven. Scary thought.

 

[Atomic Pirate]

The whole city was evil, and same with the world with the flood. Sin, and Devil cause all that chaos in the world. Jesus came down and saved us from out sins by living a perfect life and dying in the cross. He defeated death by rising from the grave. It is your choice to believe or not. One sin makes us unable to enter Heaven. That is why he saved us and forgave us. It is your choice to believe, admit, and confess your sins. Christianity actually makes logical sense. It takes more faith to believe in the Big Bang than God. Here are the chances of a planet that supports compels life being created (and this is the chance that created earth according to your theory): 1: billion, trillion, trillion, trillion , trillion, trillion, trillion+ 'nuff said.

The Big Bang isn't based on faith, it's based on observations. For example, the observation that the galaxies are all receding. If they're receding, common sense tells that at some point, they were all one.

And Christianity is logical? Yes, any religion that's holy book speaks of stoning one's children if they go against the parent's beliefs is so logical. The idea that 2 of every animal can fit on a single Ark is so logical. The idea that woman is not only inferior to man and must serve him, but came from one of man's ribs, that's so logical as well.

Make that vm, so I can join in, too. :)

Let's just drop the religion debate going on here and discuss life after death. The problem with the idea of if your good works trumps your bad ones is that you think. I may go donate a gazillion dollars, but cancel it out by thinking bad about someone, bad thoughts, etc. it would be inevitable that nobody would go to Heaven. Scary thought.

So wait, a single "bad" thought will ruin a lifetime of good actions?

And I go back to the question of how your God is just and good and not a horrible, evil tyrant.

Say there was a leader of a country somewhere in the world. He kept all the power to himself, giving the people absolutely no power. Under his regime, women had next to no rights and had to follow the orders of men. Gays were punished with death. The people had no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, and no freedom of expression. Any kind of knowledge was banned by the state, as knowledge was considered evil by the leader. Everything said by this leader was considered the rule of law, and it had to be followed perfectly, with execution being the judicial response for every crime. This leader would also perform massacres, sending his troops to any city in his country that he considered immoral to kill everyone in the cities. Men, women, children -- It wouldn't matter. This leader would rule on fear, on making his people fear his wrath.

What would we consider this leader? An ally? Absolutely not. He would be a tyrant, a dictator, and an enemy of the state. There would be, at the very least, huge economic sanctions against his country, and many people would certainly want to take military action against him.

The hypothetical political leader I described has the exact same traits and laws as the Christian God. Notice that the entire idea of Christianity is based on fearing God. Yet God is considered moral and just, yet any leader who rules on fear is a tyrant and a dictator. In Christianity, God is described as "vengeful" and "jealous". Those aren't exactly good traits.

 

[BadPokemon]

The Big Bang isn't based on faith, it's based on observations. For example, the observation that the galaxies are all receding. If they're receding, common sense tells that at some point, they were all one.

And Christianity is logical? Yes, any religion that's holy book speaks of stoning one's children if they go against the parent's beliefs is so logical. The idea that 2 of every animal can fit on a single Ark is so logical. The idea that woman is not only inferior to man and must serve him, but came from one of man's ribs, that's so logical as well.



So wait, a single "bad" thought will ruin a lifetime of good actions?

And I go back to the question of how your God is just and good and not a horrible, evil tyrant.

Say there was a leader of a country somewhere in the world. He kept all the power to himself, giving the people absolutely no power. Under his regime, women had next to no rights and had to follow the orders of men. Gays were punished with death. The people had no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, and no freedom of expression. Any kind of knowledge was banned by the state, as knowledge was considered evil by the leader. Everything said by this leader was considered the rule of law, and it had to be followed perfectly, with execution being the judicial response for every crime. This leader would also perform massacres, sending his troops to any city in his country that he considered immoral to kill everyone in the cities. Men, women, children -- It wouldn't matter. This leader would rule on fear, on making his people fear his wrath.

What would we consider this leader? An ally? Absolutely not. He would be a tyrant, a dictator, and an enemy of the state. There would be, at the very least, huge economic sanctions against his country, and many people would certainly want to take military action against him.

The hypothetical political leader I described has the exact same traits and laws as the Christian God. Notice that the entire idea of Christianity is based on fearing God. Yet God is considered moral and just, yet any leader who rules on fear is a tyrant and a dictator. In Christianity, God is described as "vengeful" and "jealous". Those aren't exactly good traits.

Again, misconceptions. Fearing God means loving and respecting Him. Not exactly immoral. These people were terrible beyondehat words can explain. If he was a tyrant, he wouldn't save us from our sins by dying on a cross , beat, and tortured to death.

One sin makes you unable to reach Heaven, which is why we need grace and forgiveness, which our God is.

 

[DanZC]

The Big Bang isn't based on faith, it's based on observations. For example, the observation that the galaxies are all receding. If they're receding, common sense tells that at some point, they were all one.

And Christianity is logical? Yes, any religion that's holy book speaks of stoning one's children if they go against the parent's beliefs is so logical. The idea that 2 of every animal can fit on a single Ark is so logical. The idea that woman is not only inferior to man and must serve him, but came from one of man's ribs, that's so logical as well.

Say there was a leader of a country somewhere in the world. He kept all the power to himself, giving the people absolutely no power. Under his regime, women had next to no rights and had to follow the orders of men. Gays were punished with death. The people had no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, and no freedom of expression. Any kind of knowledge was banned by the state, as knowledge was considered evil by the leader. Everything said by this leader was considered the rule of law, and it had to be followed perfectly, with execution being the judicial response for every crime. This leader would also perform massacres, sending his troops to any city in his country that he considered immoral to kill everyone in the cities. Men, women, children -- It wouldn't matter. This leader would rule on fear, on making his people fear his wrath.

What would we consider this leader? An ally? Absolutely not. He would be a tyrant, a dictator, and an enemy of the state. There would be, at the very least, huge economic sanctions against his country, and many people would certainly want to take military action against him.

The hypothetical political leader I described has the exact same traits and laws as the Christian God. Notice that the entire idea of Christianity is based on fearing God. Yet God is considered moral and just, yet any leader who rules on fear is a tyrant and a dictator. In Christianity, God is described as "vengeful" and "jealous". Those aren't exactly good traits.

Please. If you want to discuss this matter, PM me or something. This is a thread on what happens after you die, not a religious debate thread.

Now, I've already stated my beliefs on the matter. So does anyone have anything new they would like to add to the discussion of after-death?

 

[Atomic Pirate]

Again, misconceptions. Fearing God means loving and respecting Him. Not exactly immoral. These people were terrible beyondehat words can explain. If he was a tyrant, he wouldn't save us from our sins by dying on a cross , beat, and tortured to death.

One sin makes you unable to reach Heaven, which is why we need grace and forgiveness, which our God is.

Yes, I get it, you Christians are "saved".

Meanwhile, everyone else gets tortured for eternity. Eternal torture. Do you have any comprehension of how horrible and evil that punishment would be? And anyone who thinks for themselves gets this draconian punishment.

And having too much sex or the wrong kind of sex is "terrible 'beyondehat' words can explain"? Because that's pretty much what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, in which everyone was brutally massacred.

Tell me more about how forgiving and moral your God is.

 

[DanZC]

Yes, I get it, you Christians are "saved".

Meanwhile, everyone else gets tortured for eternity. Eternal torture. Do you have any comprehension of how horrible and evil that punishment would be? And anyone who thinks for themselves gets this draconian punishment.

And having too much sex or the wrong kind of sex is "terrible 'beyondehat' words can explain"? Because that's pretty much what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, in which everyone was brutally massacred.

Tell me more about how forgiving and moral your God is.

Must you insist on keeping this debate alive on this thread? This adds NOTHING to the discussion. PM me if you really want to debate.
Now, does anyone have anything they would like to add to the discussion?

 

[Meksal]

The only issue i've ever had with the whole thing, is that, if god is so forgiving, he should never let anyone, no matter how many sins they have committed, live their afterlife in hell, that is true forgiveness, to forgive one that needs forgiving, not the ones that never needed forgiving in the first place.

Anyway, as I said before, once your body dies, so does your mind, I don't really believe much in incarnation, I think that you live your life once, enjoy it, love it, but maybe i'm wrong.

Also, the fact that some people have the nerve to believe that transgenders and homosexuals will go to hell for simply being who they are, and who god made them, disgusts me. I have my own religion, bits and pieces ripped out of other religions to fit my needs perfectly, i'm sorry if I will go to hell for that, but it's off the subject.

 

[Tek]

I find the research on near-death experiences to be rather fascinating, though limited. NDEs don't definitively tell us whether there is an afterlife or not, because there is still electrical activity in the brain even after clinical death. The bodymind has not truly fallen still at that point.

One thing that is particularly interesting is that, during a NDE, so many people experience the basic process of dis-identifying from the body and uniting with an infinite light and then feeling a deep peace. This is same as the process of Enlightenment, or awakening from the illusion of separateness and experiencing the unity of all things. And the feeling of a deep peace and unity is exactly what living people who enter into a mental state of dis-identification with the bodymind report. Which lends strength to the principle that the unborn is also the undying, and it is just that which is the essence of every human being - I Amness.

Another thing I find interesting about the NDE is the phenomenon of the "life review". Rather than try to explain it fully here, I would direct interested parties to Google search "kenneth ring golden rule" and watch the three and a half minute video on youtube.

 

[Monophobia]

This thread is about afterlife. Religious debates are thought provoking and allow others to learn and share. It's perfectly acceptable here as long as it doesn't turn into mindless cursing. This IS D&D, and one of those letters stands for "debates".

 

[BadPokemon]

This thread is about afterlife. Religious debates are thought provoking and allow others to learn and share. It's perfectly acceptable here as long as it doesn't turn into mindless cursing. This IS D&D, and one of those letters stands for "debates".

True, but it needs a separate thread. This is for afterlife debating. And we are debating about debating about something else. How ironic.

 

[Monophobia]

True, but it needs a separate thread. This is for afterlife debating. And we are debating about debating about something else. How ironic.

Religion and afterlife go hand in hand depending on your beliefs. No separate thread necessary as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Sonata]

Nobody really knows what happens after you die. A lot of people say that what you see as you're dying is just DMT being released into your mind in large quantities because your body knows you're dying and is easing you into death by showing you fantastic and trippy imagery. Just because you're not a Christian doesn't mean you can't be morally and ethically correct in life, believing or not believing in one religion or another doesn't make you a better or worse person it just comforts you. Christians might preach about hate against certain morally wrong things, but the atheists that argue against the Christians that are against gay marriage for example are even more hateful than the Christians who are just speaking out against something they don't believe in. There are extremists in all religions, atheists are more generally dicks because they don't feel or in cases don't want to feel that they're being judged in this life on their actions so they feel that they can do whatever they want and act how they want and not be punished for it except for in this hellhole of a world we live in. I'm agnostic but lean more towards the Christian side of things because I've had experience with demons and angels both. I've felt and thought things that I know I'm not smart enough to have thought of on my own and know that some force out there is hinting at these subjects in my subconscious. I've only been to a church twice and haven't read much of the bible-- all in all maybe around 100 pages of the 1000+ page monster it is. Many scientists have even proven that it's statistically improbable that there isn't a God that created us because the statistical probability that we could just form in the way that we are is incredibly tiny that they believe there is a God. Many aspects of the bible have also been historically proven, including prophecies that had yet to occur in the time of writing and occured hundreds of years after. Unfortunately all of the webpages with research on these things are on my school loaned laptop which I had to send in because it's a piece of crap so I don't have any evidence but it can easily be googled.