What is mathematics?

[gimmepie]

This came up in a Skype chat the other day and it proved an interesting topic, one that I've brought up here before a long time ago actually.

The question here is, is mathematics a language describing the universe or the physical laws of the universe themselves?

 

[£]

This came up in a Skype chat the other day and it proved an interesting topic, one that I've brought up here before a long time ago actually.

The question here is, is mathematics a language describing the universe or the physical laws of the universe themselves?

Maths is either of those, not just one of those.

If I were asked to think carefully about how to define my field, I'd go with the following:

Mathematics is a global language for which we can express a problem we wish to solve, analyse it, and as a result, gain greater understanding as well as potential conclusions with regards to the problem in question.

Everyone does mathematics, whether they think about it or not. Physics is simply applied mathematics. Statistical analysis comes into all sorts of fields. I could go on, but I think it's hard to refute the omnipresence of mathematics when you take a deeper train of thought into a matter!

 

[gimmepie]

Maths is either of those, not just one of those.

If I were asked to think carefully about how to define my field, I'd go with the following:

Mathematics is a global language for which we can express a problem we wish to solve, analyse it, and seek to understand it better and procure conclusions from the problem that has been carried out.

Everyone does mathematics, whether they think about it or not. Physics is simply applied mathematics. Statistical analysis comes into all sorts of fields. I could go on, but I think it's hard to refute the omnipresence of mathematics when you take a deeper train of thought into a matter!

Interestingly enough, this is pretty similar to what we eventually concluded also.

 

[Livewire]

Can't it be a language describing the physical laws of the universe itself? Newton's third law will always govern inertia and the excretion of force, regardless of what we call it. But it is a "law", so.

 

[Lotus the Cat]

I'm having a hard time trying to understand how the interpretation of "a language describing the universe" and "the physical laws of the universe themselves" can actually be two seperate things. Maths is a tool used to prove the physical laws of the universe, which in turn describes the universe.

I also disagree that physics is 'applied mathematics' as the physicist will determine a hypothesis and then prove it through observation and mathematics. A better comparison would be that engineering is applied mathematics, as it uses those equations to create things that act in the real world.

 

[Somewhere_]

Mathematics is an abstract concept that really doesnt exist.

I would have to agree that is a language that anyone of any language can understand with no boundaries. Its really just there for our convenience.

As you can see, I haven't thought of it much. All I know is that math isn't really helping my current GPA...

 

[gimmepie]

I'm having a hard time trying to understand how the interpretation of "a language describing the universe" and "the physical laws of the universe themselves" can actually be two seperate things. Maths is a tool used to prove the physical laws of the universe, which in turn describes the universe.

The comparison I used a lot in the Skype chat I mentioned was something along the lines of "Saying maths is the laws of the universe themselves is like saying that an apple is the same thing as the word apple."

At that time though I wasn't considering the English definitions/connotations mind you, just the logical ones.

 

[Talon]

"I'm not bilangual dumbass!"
"Do you know math?"
"Yes, but how is that relevant retard?"
"You are bilangual. Math is a language."
^ Argument I had with someone once. (I'm the one saying that math is a language btw. Just to clarify)

I think mathematics is the language of the physical and nonphysical rules of the universe.
1+1 always equals 2
1*2 always equals 2
4/2 always equals 2
3-1 always equals 2
The first derivative with respect to x of 2x⁴+3x²-2x+1 is always 8x³+6x-2 (please god tell I did that right. It would be really embarrassing to mess up simple Calculus here when I'm trying to make a point..)
That's just the way the universe works.
If I give you 2 sheep, 3 cows, and 1 horse, but you already had 9 pigs, you will now have 15 animals.
Math is the language of the way the world and known universe works. It visually and verbally describes what is happening, why, and what the outcome is.

 

[£]

"I'm not bilangual dumbass!"
"Do you know math?"
"Yes, but how is that relevant retard?"
"You are bilangual. Math is a language."
^ Argument I had with someone once. (I'm the one saying that math is a language btw. Just to clarify)

I think mathematics is the language of the physical and nonphysical rules of the universe.
1+1 always equals 2
1*2 always equals 2
4/2 always equals 2
3-1 always equals 2
The first derivative with respect to x of 2x⁴+3x²-2x+1 is always 8x³+6x-2 (please god tell I did that right. It would be really embarrassing to mess up simple Calculus here when I'm trying to make a point..)
That's just the way the universe works.
If I give you 2 sheep, 3 cows, and 1 horse, but you already had 9 pigs, you will now have 15 animals.
Math is the language of the way the world and known universe works. It visually and verbally describes what is happening, why, and what the outcome is.

very good.

now I'd like you to solve a second order partial differential equation showing your working in full to make it nice and clear to everyone what the true form of mathematics is... ****ing torture.

that's right. the true purpose of mathematics is to increase in complexity until you cry uncle. and when you reach that point, the zenith of your mathematical prowess, know that there are no winners in this game we play.

maths is imaginary and real.

maths is everything and nothing.

maths is love. maths is life. maths is strife.

 

[Banz]

When I was at school I read somewhere that maths is 'the science of numbers'. But then I realised it wouldn't be a science in itself because science deals with the study of the physical world. Mathematics is an abstract tool that we use to help us with the sciences.

I also disagree that physics is 'applied mathematics' as the physicist will determine a hypothesis and then prove it through observation and mathematics. A better comparison would be that engineering is applied mathematics, as it uses those equations to create things that act in the real world.

Applied maths is a branch of maths which we studied for engineering. But engineering as a whole isn't applied maths.
Engineering is one of the applied sciences, and my branch (Mechanical) mostly deals with the application of physics in moving bodies.