What We Eat (And What We Don't)

[Oryx]

As per usual for me, I'll start out with the shortened version of my question: would you ever eat the meat of a pet animal - cats, dogs, etc? Why or why not?

Most everyone I know and speak to would respond with an immediate "no", without any thought as to whether or not their repulsion is logically consistent with their moral code. Often they just think of certain animals as pets, and certain animals as food, and have no further thought processes - I'd like to delve into those thought processes. Why are certain animals pets and others food? Would you ever eat a pig if you initially had one as a pet, as they're somewhat popular pets and incredibly smart? Or would you, like my boyfriend, refuse to ever have a pig as a pet because you acknowledge your bias and like bacon?

Bonus question: why is cannibalism (of already dead bodies) wrong?

Edit: I'd like to refrain from health-related issues and focus on the ethics of it - unless, of course, the health issues inform the ethics.

 

[Esper]

I'm a vegetarian (so my answer may not be as interesting) in part because of events in my past similar to the pet pig example you gave. Years ago my relatives had this little lamb on their property that I and my cousins would play with, etc. etc. and then one Thanksgiving... well, you can imagine. I was pretty upset because everyone seemed like monsters and because no one had told me that they were only keeping the lamb around to eat it. Being around the lamb I saw it as a living creature that would respond to things we did. I could see (in my limited childlike way) that it had a personality, was aware of things around it, and so on. To me, it was a kind of tiny sheep-shaped person that just couldn't speak or do a lot of things people can do. I wasn't put off eating meat for a long while after, but if I had really thought about it then I'd have probably given up meat sooner.

The cannibalism thing (aside from the health/medical reasons) is probably based on a lot of things: respect for a person, aversion to death, and the weird and creepy idea of thinking of ourselves as food. It's probably a sort of unspoken rule that we make with each other: don't kill me and eat me and I won't try to kill and eat you. You know, kind of like all those unspoken rules of being civilized like agreeing not to steal from one another.

 

[twocows]

I wouldn't have any moral problem with it, especially if it wasn't raised as a pet, the person eating it is starving, or the animal was already deceased.

I also don't have any moral problem with cannibalism of dead humans, provided the person being consumed was all right with it and the family doesn't have any problem with it. For example, in some cultures, burying your dead is abhorrent because they're being put into the cold earth, whereas eating them means you keep a bit of them with you wherever you go. It's not my thing, but I can see how that might be the case with some people.

I would be hesitant to eat "pet" meat, though, and I'm not sure I would ever partake in cannibalism.

 

[maccrash]

nah I wouldn't eat a dog or a cat. it just seems dirty. at first I was like "ew no why would anyone eat a dog or a cat those disgusting fools?" but now I'm struggling to think of a reason as to why I wouldn't. I love beef and pork and what have you soo I dunno.

cannibalism's a little different because we're eating each other. this post sucks.

 

[Blu·Ray]

I live on a cow farm, so I might be slightly biased, but I see absolutely no problem in eating "pet animals". I don't see the great difference between pet animals and production animals. When I was younger I even went to the cattle show with a calf, and you won't imagine how much this calf was cuddled and hugged and taken for a walk. I felt connected to this animal like you normally do with "pet animals", but it didn't keep me from eating beef. Not even the slightest.

I can see arguments for being completely vegetarian, some of which are actually really convincing, but I'm unable to find a good argument against eating "pet animals". All types of animals can be cute and pet-able, and that doesn't make them any less eatable.

 

[Timbjerr]

As a carnivore and a pet-owner my whole life, I agree that the taboo behind consuming "pet meat" is silly and unfounded. While I'd never have my own dog butchered for their meat, I wouldn't be opposed to trying dog meat at least once in my life. Therein lies the ethical question...who's to say that this dog deserves a long and happy life while that dog is only being raised to be eaten?

Nobody wants to be the one to make that distinction...and nobody really should. That's why it's easier just to say that certain animals are "off-limits" when it comes to your meat fulfillment.

...and as for cannibalism, it's really a matter of cultural beliefs as twocows mentioned. Seeing as I've been raised in the U.S., I don't think I'd ever partake in such a practice unless in a really desperate situation. :/

 

[Quzilax]

I'd eat cats/dogs no problem, their just another animal to me. Not sure about eating my own pet cat since hes family but otherwise yeah sure. Eating another human though? sure. I'd give it a shot if there was some legal way of trying it.

 

[Tek]

While I'd never have my own dog butchered for their meat, I wouldn't be opposed to trying dog meat at least once in my life. Therein lies the ethical question...who's to say that this dog deserves a long and happy life while that dog is only being raised to be eaten?

Nobody wants to be the one to make that distinction...and nobody really should. That's why it's easier just to say that certain animals are "off-limits" when it comes to your meat fulfillment.

While it's true for most people that it's easier not to decide which animals live and which ones die, I could not object more strongly that it is better to simply not make a distinction.


The general notion is that we would be doing a great cruelty to some animal by deciding that it is the one to be killed, and doing a great kindness to another by allowing it to live. But the available evidence indicates that everything that comes into being eventually ceases to be. Everything that is born also dies. Aren't we actually doing a kindness to cattle and other farm animals by ensuring a swift and relatively easy death?


We allow our household pets to get old and stiff and worn down, and then we do everything we can to prolong that miserable state, and we imagine we're doing them some sort of favor! Does that strike anyone else as completely insane?


It makes more sense to me to treat our dead pets in the same way we treat the animals that we hunt or raise on farms. If your kitty Mr. Skittles dies, and you find him before the flesh rots, make you some Skittle soup and a nice hat. Because it was not ever the flesh and blood that you clung to and loved and bonded with. What was actually important was the mutual space created by two living beings, and when one dies, the other is left only with the memories. "After all, these are just dirty skeletons." (from the Zenrin Kushu)

 

[The Void]

Would you eat a pet animal?

If it were a dare, sure, why not. Of course, I would research on that particular breed of animal I'd be eating first and see whether it's safe or not. There are many dog, cats, rabbits, and squirrels that are too unsafe to eat.

Why is cannibalism wrong?

It's unhealthy. I read somewhere that it has something to do with the toxins we overproduce, so we're actually more dangerous to eat than animals. And it's disgusting. So... yeah.

 

[Oryx]

Would you eat a pet animal?

If it were a dare, sure, why not. Of course, I would research on that particular breed of animal I'd be eating first and see whether it's safe or not. There are many dog, cats, rabbits, and squirrels that are too unsafe to eat.

Why is cannibalism wrong?

It's unhealthy. I read somewhere that it has something to do with the toxins we overproduce, so we're actually more dangerous to eat than animals. And it's disgusting. So... yeah.

I'd like you to explore the throwaway "it's disgusting" more deeply, which is the point of this post...why is it disgusting?

 

[Hiatus]

Meat is meat, and if you're able to consume one kind, same could be applied to pretty much all. Many people would refuse to eat certain animal meat, though, because they've grown attached to this particular group of animal emotional-wise and treat them similarly to how they'd treat human beings. I'm exactly like that, and personally, I feel that there's nothing wrong. As for others, they'd go out of their way to try anything they could get their hands on for the sake of curiosity. It's our lives after all, so we should do whatever we please (well, almost; don't mean it literally, haha) to satisfy our minds and keep ourselves happy. The more happy you are, the more positive of an effect you might have on those around you.

 

[Plumpyfoof]

I think the whole cannibalism thing is much more interesting.

First thing that comes to mind is how would you determine the cannibal didn't murder his lunch in order for them to become lunch? If cannibalism was a thing I am almost certain there would be a small minority out there who would do this kind of thing and think it okay.
The next thing that comes to mind is why do we think doing that exact thing ^ is only not okay when it happens to our own species? Like we kill cows so they become lunch, we don't wait for them to die first before getting out our cutlery.

After we pass those morally ambiguous questions for our civilisation and decide that cannibalism is okay (or the majority does and therefore dictates democracy) would we be forced to eat the deceased only after we have expired? That meat would be terrible! For the same reason we don't wait until cows turn 80 before chopping them up, they need to be ripe.
So would we farm humans? Would we selectively breed a divergent subspecies of human specifically for eating. Would they have rights? Would they be treated as just another farm animal in a cage, given bread and water until they're 21 and then chopped up and called "steak"?
Or! Would they be integrated into society? Creating an elitist rift between the "edibles" and the "diners"?
Just imagine the social and ethical implications of this it would be a massive problem with no true and simple solutions.


Oh man I'm writing a book.

 

[Tek]

So would we farm humans? Would we selectively breed a divergent subspecies of human specifically for eating. Would they have rights? Would they be treated as just another farm animal in a cage, given bread and water until they're 21 and then chopped up and called "steak"?
Or! Would they be integrated into society? Creating an elitist rift between the "edibles" and the "diners"?
Just imagine the social and ethical implications of this it would be a massive problem with no true and simple solutions.

Alan Watts was a vegetarian on the principle that "Cows scream louder than carrots." In other words, animals are more complex than plants, they have developed sensation, impulse, and rudimentary emotion. How much more complex is a human being?

Cows aren't really capable of accomplishing whole lot aside from eating and pooping. But people - or even just one person - can perform any number of useful tasks. Farming humans for meat would be like wiping your ass with the pages of a textbook. It's abrasive, and serves a much better purpose.

Even from a morally "neutral" perspective, it's just an utter waste of resources. It'd be like having the materials with which to build a house that would last decades, and choosing instead to burn it all for a couple nights' worth of heat.

Oh man I'm writing a book.

That's not a book. This is a book :P https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=8265697&postcount=24

 

[Plumpyfoof]

Alan Watts was a vegetarian on the principle that "Cows scream louder than carrots." In other words, animals are more complex than plants, they have developed sensation, impulse, and rudimentary emotion. How much more complex is a human being?

Cows aren't really capable of accomplishing whole lot aside from eating and pooping. But people - or even just one person - can perform any number of useful tasks. Farming humans for meat would be like wiping your ass with the pages of a textbook. It's abrasive, and serves a much better purpose.

Even from a morally "neutral" perspective, it's just an utter waste of resources. It'd be like having the materials with which to build a house that would last decades, and choosing instead to burn it all for a couple nights' worth of heat.


That's not a book. This is a book :P https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=8265697&postcount=24

A cow can't scream if someone were to remove its voice box, that quote says to me "you go to concert and lose your voice because you had a good time and you become no better than a salad until it comes back". I'm kidding by the way, the quote was inherently funny.

Useful relative to whom? To mans contribution to the ambiguously skewed betterment of our planet?
I actually rank plants above humans when it comes to "usefulness", as much as we have created we're destroying everything in our wake to achieve personal greatness. Once we transcend our blind destructive phase and can exercise our intelligence in tandem with the environment maybe I'll change my mind.

I do totally agree that humans would serve a much greater purpose than simply sustenance, consider the hypothetical implications of if human meat was a superfood high in all the good stuff low on the bad to the point where it becomes much simpler, cheaper, more cost effective etc. It's all round much easier to live off human meat than to go to the effort of a balanced diet and regular exercise.
Now if people are aware of this there is going to be an elite group of cannibal activists pushing for this to become normal. It's what people do, we can't do something we complain. We're children.

Of course the usefulness of a human selectively bred to be eaten is going to be much different when compared to one who wasn't. I imagine you'd be looking at someone between anywhere between 5'10" to 6'8" rather bulky build, incredibly dimwitted educated to the standard of a 5 year old or potentially an inherent mental disorder or learning impairment. You'd want them to be very passive, so you'd train all aggression out the subjects.
This is less complicated. They'd be useless in the workforce, would make zero contribution to science directly, essentially a sack of meat occupying space taking up resources before the time came they're made into my burger.

If you were to farm them of course. An integration into society would be much more complex because you would need to be able to slip in unnoticed while still displaying some degree of physical traits that link you to your relatives. Like the slower wits and bigger muscle mass but to lesser degrees. Until the revolution where they evolve to the point where they realise they can eat us as well and a war breaks out figuratively over spilt milk.

The only waste of resources comes from having to breed more of them to feed them into adulthood.
All that is to say that eaten human meat is more beneficial in several ways to eating anything else.


I'm thinking about turning this into musical actually hahah

 

[The Void]

It's disgusting because it's not in my culture to do so. I'm certain that if I were raised in a tribe in Papua New Guinea, I would have no trouble eating my own species. It's also deeply disturbing to know that the meat you are eating belonged to someone who lived and breathed the same way you did.

 

[Oryx]

It's disgusting because it's not in my culture to do so. I'm certain that if I were raised in a tribe in Papua New Guinea, I would have no trouble eating my own species. It's also deeply disturbing to know that the meat you are eating belonged to someone who lived and breathed the same way you did.

I'm asking you to think more deeply than "it's disgusting because that's what my people believe", and into your moral code. Why, logically, do you feel that it's wrong? Or are you trying to acknowledge that it's illogical, but you believe it anyway?

As far as "the same way you did", all mammals basically breathe the same way, so can I infer that you're a vegetarian from this?

 

[The Void]

I'm asking you to think more deeply than "it's disgusting because that's what my people believe", and into your moral code. Why, logically, do you feel that it's wrong? Or are you trying to acknowledge that it's illogical, but you believe it anyway?

As far as "the same way you did", all mammals basically breathe the same way, so can I infer that you're a vegetarian from this?

Oh. Sorry for being vague; I actually don't think cannibalism is wrong. The reasons I posted were why I wouldn't eat human meat myself even if it goes boom on the market.

Cannibalism isn't wrong morally, human meat is still meat, like Peitharchia said. And there's no reason for eating any sort of food to be morally wrong unless it infringes on someone else's rights (stealing, killing, etc.).

 

[Tek]

Useful relative to whom? To mans contribution to the ambiguously skewed betterment of our planet?
I actually rank plants above humans when it comes to "usefulness", as much as we have created we're destroying everything in our wake to achieve personal greatness. Once we transcend our blind destructive phase and can exercise our intelligence in tandem with the environment maybe I'll change my mind.

We humanize all of experience. Even the endeavor to put everything into strictly neutral, empirical terms is driven by the notion that it's better to be strictly neutral and empirical.


You can't ever get away from value judgements. Notice that you say that you'll consider humans useful when they aren't destructive. You're valuing something along the lines stewardship and respect for life, or the sustained existence of the biosphere.


(On a side note, I think you've pointed out something important by referring to the drive to "achieve personal greatness", but that relates more to overconsumption of resources and general unhappiness than the topic at hand.)




So to clarify, the tasks that humans perform are useful for increasing human happiness, in greater or lesser degrees.


Of course, the dialectic of progress is such that as the capacity for being constructive increases, so does the capacity for being destructive. Industrialization can produce food more efficiently than agrarian methods, and it can also produce toxins in much greater amounts.


But simpler mammals can't do either of those things on their own, and can thereby be considered less useful.






Since the rest of your post is based on the completely imaginary idea that human meat is a superfood, I assume that by this:

All that is to say that eaten human meat is more beneficial in several ways to eating anything else.

you actually mean that eating human would be beneficial if your hypothetical were true, right?

 

[Plumpyfoof]

Since the rest of your post is based on the completely imaginary idea that human meat is a superfood, I assume that by this:
you actually mean that eating human would be beneficial if your hypothetical were true, right?

Imaginary is the key here. I'm trying to identify a situation where eating human flesh can be rationalised. Because why would we be talking about any of this in reality when human flesh is relatively toxic to us and the simple act is already inherently disturbing and disgusting.

 

[Tek]

Imaginary is the key here. I'm trying to identify a situation where eating human flesh can be rationalised. Because why would we be talking about any of this in reality when human flesh is relatively toxic to us and the simple act is already inherently disturbing and disgusting.

I see. In that case you're on to something. Imagine the headlines. "Your Neighbor: The Next New Health Craze?" If you want to make it even more disturbing, postulate that baby meat is a superfood. There have been recent studies showing that transfusing the blood if younger mice into older mice has an age-reversing effect, so the baby-superfood idea wouldn't be quite as Farfetch'd.

Or embryos, cause you know, stem cells or something.


I actually Googled the toxicity of our city, of our ci-ity human flesh. There's no evidence to support that. But if you eat brains, you might die.

Certain proteins can get twisted up and malformed (they're called prions), and if you ingest them, it often causes a chain reaction in which your own brain proteins get all twisted up, basically turning your brain into a sponge. It's always fatal when this happens, although it doesn't always happen right away. The condition is called transmissible spongiform encephalopathy.

Basically the same thing as mad cow disease. And cooking the meat doesn't make it safe to eat.