Where did Legendary Pokemon come from?

[zidiane]

Legendary Pokemon, in the Pokemon world, are supposed to be super rare, almost never seen phenomenons. So, where exactly did they come from? In the anime, sometimes there might be a few separate versions of the same legendary, but that's pretty much it. So, I got to thinking.... maybe Legendary Pokemon are special evolutions of other Pokemon?

There are all kinds of weird requirements for certain Pokemon, like leveling at a certain time of day, or when their moods are right, or in a certain place, or holding a certain item, you guys already know that, but what if certain Pokemon had such bizarre evolution conditions that the fact that they were even met was a miracle? Like being traded for this specific pokemon, while both are holding this special item, while eating a special berry, at 5:00 pm on April 28th of leapyear. And think about it: Isn't it weird that most Pokemon evolve twice, while other evolve only once if at all? and some even need to be out of their natural habitat to evolve?

SO! I want to make this thread for three reasons. ONE: Ask what you think about this theory. TWO: What Pokemon could have, if I'm right, evolved into which Legendary? THREE: What types of unlikely conditions do you think were required?

I'll post just a couple I think could have happened.

Fearow leveling in Chargestone Cave/Fiery Path/Icy Path turning into Zapdos/Moltres/Articuno (Fearow kinda looks weird, but its body kind of matches the birds, especially the beak (two out of three, at least))

Ditto leveling after holding the forms of many different Psychic types turning into Mew (Same colors, both normal and shiny, both having the ability to use any moves)

 

[Sharpshooter★]

I thinkt hat they were born like normal Pokemon, but their strenght made them enter in legends and to escape humans trying to catch them they fled.

 

[zidiane]

Maybe, but then are they the only pokemon in their evolutionary line? What did they start out as? What was the first pokemon that became so badass that it became "Legendary"?

 

[psyanic]

I feel like Legendary Pokemon were just made that way. A niche was to be filled as "guardians" of whatever sector they happen to rule and Arceus just made them as such. For example, Groudon and Kyogre were created to make Land and Sea while Regigigas was made to shape the Land. Rayquaza guards the sky and the ozone layer, and also serves as a mediator for the former Pokemon. Ho-Oh... not too keen on origins, but the dog trio was clearly identified and created.

Mew, on the other hand, was said to have been a part of a more populace species. Where they went is anyone's guess, but they probably were the father of all Pokemon since both the games and the anime suggest that Mew contains all the genetic material of all Pokemon. Mewtwo, obviously, was created as a stronger counterpart to Mew. Lati@s were said to be part of a herd, and so the theory also points to that Legendary Pokemon were simply made that way and adapted to become stronger, possibly.

So no Pokemon will evolve into a Legendary. Not even Phiony evolves into Manaphy, yet that's what comes out of a Manaphy egg. That's changing species to something else, not what they are. That's like saying a Charizard can evolve into a Blaziken if the conditions are right. And Fearow looks similar to the bird trio simply because it's a bird.

 

[User19sq]

If Pokemon Snap counts for anything, it's said that the legendary birds were born from eggs, without the need for evolutons or pre-evolutions. Arceus's and the lake trio's pokedex entries suggest that they were born from eggs too in the same manner. A theory could be that it possible is: legendaries are born like regular Pokemon, only that they are special in many ways. Some are born from nature, and others are born by means that should be kept mystery. As to the theory of regular Pokemon ascending to legendary status, that's only accountable for growlithe, and even then it's not an official legendary Pokemon; only by pokedex.

 

[Jobrjo]

Except for a few exceptions, I'd say Arceus created Legendaries to "keep the peace", to "create balance", and to "be rulers" or "govern" the pokemon world. I do disagree with special evolution theory you have, though I won't lie: it's original and a provoking thought...

 

[Pokemonmaster_draco]

I'd go with the post above me ^. It's pretty much it. Just think of it as arceus as god and the legendaries as the angels :). This is how it works out

 

[zidiane]

I feel like Legendary Pokemon were just made that way. A niche was to be filled as "guardians" of whatever sector they happen to rule and Arceus just made them as such. For example, Groudon and Kyogre were created to make Land and Sea while Regigigas was made to shape the Land. Rayquaza guards the sky and the ozone layer, and also serves as a mediator for the former Pokemon. Ho-Oh... not too keen on origins, but the dog trio was clearly identified and created.

Except for a few exceptions, I'd say Arceus created Legendaries to "keep the peace", to "create balance", and to "be rulers" or "govern" the pokemon world. I do disagree with special evolution theory you have, though I won't lie: it's original and a provoking thought...

Just think of it as arceus as god and the legendaries as the angels :). This is how it works out

I never really bought that Arceus is a god/creator type Pokemon. I mean, that's the Legend, and Mythology and whatnot, but Legends also say that Mew is the ancestor to all Pokemon. Unless you want to say that Mew had an egg by itself that was Arceus, then Arceus created the Pokemon that gave it birth and then the rest of the Pokemon, or maybe that before Arceus was in the egg he created Mew to have the egg in the first place. So yeah, I never give any weight to anything that say "According to legend" or "It's said" before it. I also don't think it really makes sense for the actual, living and breathing GOD of the Pokemon universe to be captured and take part in petty battles with any trainer (You/me).

Course that's just me. And from the way I see it, most of the Legendaries aren't guardians of anything anyway, they just fight in huge epic battles for no reason, for petty reasons, for territory (Which I guess they COULD be guarding), or sometimes just because they happen to cross paths. And if you ignore that, if they ARE guardians, then what are they doing coming with you when you catch them? They are abandoning everything they were guarding to live in a box on your computer. Not just in the games, there are anime legendaries that are caught too; did they ALL leave their position as guardians behind as well?

Also, what about pokemon games that let you catch the same pokemon in different places? Like Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Ho-oh, Lugia, The three dogs, Latios, Latias, etc. Are those all second versions of the legendary seen before (Because each game literally thrusts them into your face to catch, implying you catching them is what's supposed to happen), or does each game stand alone? Which can't be true, because people like Cynthia, Caitlin, and the entire second half of gsc/hgss say otherwise.

What's going on here, Legendaries?

So no Pokemon will evolve into a Legendary. Not even Phiony evolves into Manaphy, yet that's what comes out of a Manaphy egg. That's changing species to something else, not what they are. That's like saying a Charizard can evolve into a Blaziken if the conditions are right. And Fearow looks similar to the bird trio simply because it's a bird.

Where did you get that from? Who said anything about Charizard or Blaziken? Those are two established third forms, of seperate evolutionary lines. What I'M satying, is that there could be hidden evolutions. Poliwhirl, Gloom, Scyther, Chansey, Lickitung, Tangela, Electabuzz, Magmar, Evee, and more. These are all Pokemon with evolution conditions that weren't discovered until later. And there are Prevolutions that are also discovered later. That's what I'm suggesting is possible about Legendaries. Not that Gyarados can evolve into Dragonite, or whatever other crazy suggestions you can think of.

And no, I'm not saying their similar because their birds. Fearow has the most similar body structure and beak out of anyone when compared to those three. If I said Swellos, or Mandibuzz, then that'd just be because they are birds.

As to the theory of regular Pokemon ascending to legendary status, that's only accountable for growlithe, and even then it's not an official legendary Pokemon; only by pokedex.

It's only accountable because it's the only one we know of. If we knew of another Pokemon who evolves into a legendary, and could breed, they wouldn't be considered so legendary (By the people existing in the Pokemon universe). Like Dragonite: If the previous forms of him were never seen, he would be considered a legendary alongside the birds (because people don't know mew or mewtwo).

 

[voicerocker]

I never really bought that Arceus is a god/creator type Pokemon. I mean, that's the Legend, and Mythology and whatnot, but Legends also say that Mew is the ancestor to all Pokemon. Unless you want to say that Mew had an egg by itself that was Arceus, then Arceus created the Pokemon that gave it birth and then the rest of the Pokemon, or maybe that before Arceus was in the egg he created Mew to have the egg in the first place. So yeah, I never give any weight to anything that say "According to legend" or "It's said" before it. I also don't think it really makes sense for the actual, living and breathing GOD of the Pokemon universe to be captured and take part in petty battles with any trainer (You/me).

In HG/SS, the event Arceus can create a new Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina for you, so it does have the power to create new life. Also, if you go by the Arceus movie, it has existed for a very long period of time, so that could hint at it possibly being immortal. Legendary Pokemon often have more than one story of origin which then adds to the speculation of where exactly it came from. As far as having the "god Pokemon" be captured, it is still technically a Pokemon, so it isn't totally impossible to say it can't be captured. But I think that's looking too deep into it. No use in making complete sense out of a fictional video game universe!

Course that's just me. And from the way I see it, most of the Legendaries aren't guardians of anything anyway, they just fight in huge epic battles for no reason, for petty reasons, for territory (Which I guess they COULD be guarding), or sometimes just because they happen to cross paths. And if you ignore that, if they ARE guardians, then what are they doing coming with you when you catch them? They are abandoning everything they were guarding to live in a box on your computer. Not just in the games, there are anime legendaries that are caught too; did they ALL leave their position as guardians behind as well?

Just because you capture Dialga, doesn't mean that time stops. Some Pokemon seem to serve as guardians, but many don't. Again, you might be trying to make logical sense out of a video game.

Also, what about pokemon games that let you catch the same pokemon in different places? Like Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Ho-oh, Lugia, The three dogs, Latios, Latias, etc. Are those all second versions of the legendary seen before (Because each game literally thrusts them into your face to catch, implying you catching them is what's supposed to happen), or does each game stand alone? Which can't be true, because people like Cynthia, Caitlin, and the entire second half of gsc/hgss say otherwise.

What's going on here, Legendaries?

Some Legendary Pokemon are considered one of a kind only. (Mewtwo, Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina...) But with other Legends, like Celebi, more than 1 exists. This calls into the mystery of some of the Pokemon being deities or gods. In the anime, there were 3 separate Lugia: the mother and baby, and the one from the movie. Also, it would seem to make sense that there should only be 1 Giratina the lives in the Distortion World, however you can create a new one in HG/SS.

I think it helps to view each individual game as an alternate universe. (This would be the best way to see Pokemon, since there should only be 1 Mewtwo, yet you can obviously battle other trainers through wi-fi that also have a Mewtwo.)

Where did you get that from? Who said anything about Charizard or Blaziken? Those are two established third forms, of seperate evolutionary lines. What I'M satying, is that there could be hidden evolutions. Poliwhirl, Gloom, Scyther, Chansey, Lickitung, Tangela, Electabuzz, Magmar, Evee, and more. These are all Pokemon with evolution conditions that weren't discovered until later. And there are Prevolutions that are also discovered later. That's what I'm suggesting is possible about Legendaries.

It has been suggested in the games that Legendary Pokemon exist without a need for evolving. One of the Profs. mentions that, but I can't remember which one. I think this could also link back to the possibility of them being considered gods by the people in that world. But to answer your question, I don't think any ordinary Pokemon could have evolved into a Legendary. You compared Fearow to the 3 birds, but I don't think that would make much sense.

 

[psyanic]

I also don't think it really makes sense for the actual, living and breathing GOD of the Pokemon universe to be captured and take part in petty battles with any trainer (You/me).

You're taking the games too literally. What's the point of a game if you can't even complete it? That's mocking players, so of course Arceus has to be available. If it wasn't, there'd be some petition to get an event going or something along the lines of a boycott. Not that extreme, but you get the point. If you want a better source where people respect the powers of the legendary Pokemon, look at the anime. Or even the manga. Those are the sources where you'll see the logic of not being able to catch certain Pokemon. The anime has many episodes dedicated to some evil team wanting to catch a corresponding legendary. There was the Power of One movie where catching the three birds would have completely screwed up the balance of the world. Catching them would have made a drastic effect on the environment or their territory, whatever.

You mention anime legendaries caught. However, you didn't notice that the legendaries caught aren't the ones destined to control the world, or something along those lines. For example, no one caught a Giratina. There's the problem of actually getting to it since it rules the reverse world, and the fact that it's big and you probably won't even dent it. There was the Darkrai and Latios that Tobias used, and that almost makes sense. Except, why had had them in the first place, but that's a different discussion. Darkrai isn't some major entity that can devastate the world because it got captured. Its powers are strong, sure, but it's not destroy-the-world powerful. Also, Latios was said to have been a herd Pokemon. I'm getting that from the PokeDex entry, so obviously, its power on the balance of the universe is a lot less significant than, say, Arceus. Lati@s don't have a real position in the fabric of the world. They're a lot like Mew, Celebi, etc. They were said to have been numerous, but now borderline close to extinction and people barely believe in them. Even people in Alto Mare (in the anime) barely believed in them, until they saved the place. Some legendary Pokemon don't have that role, of guarding something powerful or protecting whatever. Some legendary Pokemon are legendary because they're like a myth, a dream, or an illusion.

Course that's just me. And from the way I see it, most of the Legendaries aren't guardians of anything anyway, they just fight in huge epic battles for no reason, for petty reasons, for territory (Which I guess they COULD be guarding), or sometimes just because they happen to cross paths.

Raikou did try to save Electric-type Pokemon the short Pokemon series, "Raikou: The Legend of Thunder" or whatever it was called. That's pretty guardian-like, isn't it? Latios sacrificed himself at Alto Mare to save the town from completely submerging under water. That's also rather like a protector. Manaphy had to fulfill the role of being the prince of the sea in the Water Palace and needed to protect all water Pokemon. Rayquaza got in a nasty fight with Deoxys because it thought Deoxys was some kind of threat since it did invade his turf and it also probably thought it did blast Rayquaza back to kingdom come. And come on, it's an alien. Wouldn't you run home and grab a baseball bat to club them flat?

A few legendary Pokemon aren't guardians though. They're moreover just legends, like a tall tale. Kyogre created the sea, so there's the fact that the sea is already there, so it's not needed anymore. So it just went to sleep or sometimes hopped around and saved Manaphy. Groudon is the same and it rests in eternal slumber and Regigigas is right up in his alley.

Also, what about pokemon games that let you catch the same pokemon in different places? Like Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Ho-oh, Lugia, The three dogs, Latios, Latias, etc.

This is relates to what I said earlier: Legendary Pokemon must be available in enough games so that fans are happy they can complete the PokeDex. Wouldn't you be aggravated if you didn't have any of the RSE games, yet you desperately wanted to catch a Kyogre? They made it possible, so there it is. I don't see you point about Ho-Oh and Lugia, since they are pretty much set as only catchable in Johto games. However, there were some events in Gen III so they could be obtainable. This is completely understandable since you can't trade from Gen II to Gen III, so they had to make them available.

Where did you get that from? Who said anything about Charizard or Blaziken? Those are two established third forms, of seperate evolutionary lines.

Those two Pokemon are solely examples and can be used interchangeably with any other Pokemon, except of course, a Pokemon from their evolutionary line. Most of the Pokemon you listed were part of a none evolutionary line to begin with, so I suppose that Game Freak wanted to make them stronger so they added an evolution. Let's face it: Tangela was useless, while Electabuzz and Magmar had something going but not the stats to really back them up. But look, you're suggesting that some Pokemon can evolve into legendaries because there could be some new technique or another. Truth is, no legendary Pokemon has been able to evolve and none are part of an evolutionary line. Like I said, not even Phiony evolves into Manaphy. If a Fearow could evolve into a Zapdos, then Zapdos wouldn't be legendary anymore, would it? They'd just be a common Pokemon that anyone can have, meaning everyone else in the games. They'd lose that legendary status as soon as they become common as Spearow.

And no, I'm not saying their similar because their birds. Fearow has the most similar body structure and beak out of anyone when compared to those three.

Fearow has a similarity in its beak, however, its beak is a bit crooked in ways. It also has some tuft or feathers around its neck, which none of the birds have. Except maybe Articuno, but its tuft is more smooth and elegant whereas Fearow's is aggresive along with its design in general. And its neck itself is quite contrasting except Moltres's, since the other birds seem to have their heads stuck on their bodies without one, or follow a smoother style. And fatter.

Like Dragonite: If the previous forms of him were never seen, he would be considered a legendary alongside the birds (because people don't know mew or mewtwo).

Actually, it's not the fact that they wouldn't know about its evolutionary line. It's more about how there's only been one seen in the world and people rarely saw it, because it would be called a legendary due to the fact that not many people believe in its existence.

 

[zidiane]

In HG/SS, the event Arceus can create a new Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina for you, so it does have the power to create new life. Also, if you go by the Arceus movie, it has existed for a very long period of time, so that could hint at it possibly being immortal. Legendary Pokemon often have more than one story of origin which then adds to the speculation of where exactly it came from.

I wasn't saying that Arceus couldn't/can't create Pokemon, just that him being the first who created everything (Literally God) doesn't seem likely, especially since we're going off of folklore.

As far as having the "god Pokemon" be captured, it is still technically a Pokemon, so it isn't totally impossible to say it can't be captured.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible to catch it, just that... well, if you were God, would you become a slave to any human? Even if you WERE caught, you have the power to create Legendary Pokemon at the very least, you'd think you could break the bonds of a pokeball.

But I think that's looking too deep into it. No use in making complete sense out of a fictional video game universe!

I'm sorry, I can't ever bring myself to not think sense. And besides, the only time you can use that argument (No use in making complete sense out of a fictional video game universe!) is when someone is comparing the game world to real world logic. No matter what, everything has to abide by the rules it has governed for itself. I can use fiction logic to make sense of the fiction universe, because if I couldn't then it'd at best be a flawed story. Sure, I'm assuming the story should make sense, but I don't think you can really penalize me for that.

This is the logic I'm abiding by to come to the conclusion that it MAY be POSSIBLE that Legendaries evolve or have previous forms, if you wanted to know:
ONE: Pokemon evolve.
TWO: Knowledge of Pokemon is ever expanding, frequently providing new evolutions to old Pokemon.
THREE: Pokemon often have unusual evolution requisites that aren't found for years.
FOUR: The more a Pokemon is studied, the more is discovered about it.
FIVE: Most Pokemon evolve at some point, somewhere.
SIX: Legendary Pokemon aren't very well known, and most people have never seen them.
SEVEN: Because they aren't well known, people tend to make folklore about them.

Just because you capture Dialga, doesn't mean that time stops. Some Pokemon seem to serve as guardians, but many don't. Again, you might be trying to make logical sense out of a video game.

Dialga can manipulate time, and I may be wrong cause I haven't seen the movies, but I don't think he's the embodiment of time. Meaning, he is not the physical manifestation of time that keeps it moving. I think he can stop time, move it forward or backwards, and some other stuff, but taking him out wouldn't make time stop. Again, there's logic to everything. Mine may be wrong, but that doesn't mean this game doesn't abide by logic of some sort.

Some Legendary Pokemon are considered one of a kind only. (Mewtwo, Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina...) But with other Legends, like Celebi, more than 1 exists. This calls into the mystery of some of the Pokemon being deities or gods. In the anime, there were 3 separate Lugia: the mother and baby, and the one from the movie. Also, it would seem to make sense that there should only be 1 Giratina the lives in the Distortion World, however you can create a new one in HG/SS.

I don't understand. Why does only one of a legendary mean that they are a God? Also, with Legendaries that have more than one of them, that means they are just ridiculously strong normal Pokemon, right? So, for them, evolving or having prevolutions doesn't seem so farfetch'd to me even if you disagree with most else I've said.

I think it helps to view each individual game as an alternate universe. (This would be the best way to see Pokemon, since there should only be 1 Mewtwo, yet you can obviously battle other trainers through wi-fi that also have a Mewtwo.)

I view all of wi-fi as one big alternate universe room. How else would tens of thousands of the same person meet up. None of that is real, or canon to anything ever. It's too much to say that every game is it's own continuity though.

It has been suggested in the games that Legendary Pokemon exist without a need for evolving. One of the Profs. mentions that, but I can't remember which one. I think this could also link back to the possibility of them being considered gods by the people in that world.

Professors also at one point said Pikachu was the first in it's evolutionary line. And that Scyther doesn't evolve, and that Evees only evolve into three separate Pokemon. Like I said before, their knowledge is constantly growing, which is why they tend to say such in the beginning of the games. They say things like Pokemon are mysterious, or they're researching them, or whatever. If the Professors knew everything about the Pokemon already, then they wouldn't call themselves researchers. They'd call themselves... Scribes, or Librarians. Something that has nothing to do with finding NEW things.

But to answer your question, I don't think any ordinary Pokemon could have evolved into a Legendary. You compared Fearow to the 3 birds, but I don't think that would make much sense.

I compared Fearow because I was trying to have fun. This was intended to be a fun little game about baseless speculation, where all the little Pokeboys and Pokegirls could take a load off to compare Pokemon for no reason other than to relieve some boredom. I was kinda serious about the Mew one, though.

You're taking the games too literally. What's the point of a game if you can't even complete it? That's mocking players, so of course Arceus has to be available. If it wasn't, there'd be some petition to get an event going or something along the lines of a boycott. Not that extreme, but you get the point.

Alright, I'll give you that, but only for event Pokemon. But what about when they literally throw the Pokemon in your face, and you either have to capture or kill it (Well, not literally kill)?

If you want a better source where people respect the powers of the legendary Pokemon, look at the anime. Or even the manga. Those are the sources where you'll see the logic of not being able to catch certain Pokemon. The anime has many episodes dedicated to some evil team wanting to catch a corresponding legendary. There was the Power of One movie where catching the three birds would have completely screwed up the balance of the world. Catching them would have made a drastic effect on the environment or their territory, whatever.

I'm sorry, could you speak up? I couldn't hear you over my Icee.

You mention anime legendaries caught. However, you didn't notice that the legendaries caught aren't the ones destined to control the world, or something along those lines. For example, no one caught a Giratina. There's the problem of actually getting to it since it rules the reverse world, and the fact that it's big and you probably won't even dent it. There was the Darkrai and Latios that Tobias used, and that almost makes sense. Except, why had had them in the first place, but that's a different discussion. Darkrai isn't some major entity that can devastate the world because it got captured. Its powers are strong, sure, but it's not destroy-the-world powerful.

Alright, let's exclude Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, and Gritana from further discussion. It's obvious they're a different "Tier" of legendary, no one can dispute otherwise. There are still a butt load of others, those are the only ones I'm talking about. So yeah, Lati@s, Darkrai, Mew, Celibi, Pokemon like that.

Raikou did try to save Electric-type Pokemon the short Pokemon series, "Raikou: The Legend of Thunder" or whatever it was called. That's pretty guardian-like, isn't it? Latios sacrificed himself at Alto Mare to save the town from completely submerging under water. That's also rather like a protector. Manaphy had to fulfill the role of being the prince of the sea in the Water Palace and needed to protect all water Pokemon. Rayquaza got in a nasty fight with Deoxys because it thought Deoxys was some kind of threat since it did invade his turf and it also probably thought it did blast Rayquaza back to kingdom come. And come on, it's an alien. Wouldn't you run home and grab a baseball bat to club them flat?

Those are all things that normal Pokemon tend to do. If I had a Charizard, and I was in trouble, and the thing didn't hate every breath I took, it'd probably try to help. Does that mean it was made by a deity for that sole purpose? Answer: no. I didn't mean to imply that they don't protect people, just that they weren't made by Arceus for that explicit purpose. They're just like normal Pokemon, but way stronger.

A few legendary Pokemon aren't guardians though. They're moreover just legends, like a tall tale. Kyogre created the sea, so there's the fact that the sea is already there, so it's not needed anymore. So it just went to sleep or sometimes hopped around and saved Manaphy. Groudon is the same and it rests in eternal slumber and Regigigas is right up in his alley.

The ocean is a REALLY deep place. And the ground goes REALLY far down. for all we know, there could be multiple Kyogre on the ocean floor, and none of them come up unless the water is disturbed. Same for Groudon. It doesn't seem like everything we've seen exists on one land mass, so Who's to say there's aren't a few living in each land mass?

This is relates to what I said earlier: Legendary Pokemon must be available in enough games so that fans are happy they can complete the PokeDex. Wouldn't you be aggravated if you didn't have any of the RSE games, yet you desperately wanted to catch a Kyogre? They made it possible, so there it is. I don't see you point about Ho-Oh and Lugia, since they are pretty much set as only catchable in Johto games. However, there were some events in Gen III so they could be obtainable. This is completely understandable since you can't trade from Gen II to Gen III, so they had to make them available.

I didn't mention Lugia and Ho-oh because I really don't want to mention every legendary every time I type. Like I said earlier, I can understand event Pokemon, everyone wants them so they add events. But if they were going to add an event, then why didn't they put them in the game for everyone to get in the first play-through? Answer 1: Keeps people's interest in the game longer. Answer 2: they aren't supposed to be considered a part of that games canon. In FRLG, the three dogs were part of the story (Post story). That means that there were three dogs before HSSS's, which were meant to be caught. Ohhhh... I'm tired of talking. I'm hungry.

Those two Pokemon are solely examples and can be used interchangeably with any other Pokemon, except of course, a Pokemon from their evolutionary line. Most of the Pokemon you listed were part of a none evolutionary line to begin with, so I suppose that Game Freak wanted to make them stronger so they added an evolution. Let's face it: Tangela was useless, while Electabuzz and Magmar had something going but not the stats to really back them up. But look, you're suggesting that some Pokemon can evolve into legendaries because there could be some new technique or another. Truth is, no legendary Pokemon has been able to evolve and none are part of an evolutionary line. Like I said, not even Phiony evolves into Manaphy. If a Fearow could evolve into a Zapdos, then Zapdos wouldn't be legendary anymore, would it? They'd just be a common Pokemon that anyone can have, meaning everyone else in the games. They'd lose that legendary status as soon as they become common as Spearow.


Fearow has a similarity in its beak, however, its beak is a bit crooked in ways. It also has some tuft or feathers around its neck, which none of the birds have. Except maybe Articuno, but its tuft is more smooth and elegant whereas Fearow's is aggresive along with its design in general. And its neck itself is quite contrasting except Moltres's, since the other birds seem to have their heads stuck on their bodies without one, or follow a smoother style. And fatter.


Actually, it's not the fact that they wouldn't know about its evolutionary line. It's more about how there's only been one seen in the world and people rarely saw it, because it would be called a legendary due to the fact that not many people believe in its existence.

I'm saying that if it exists, it came from somewhere. I posted my logic numerically last post. Ex. If Charizard was found in the wild, and was extremely rare, and no one knew that Charmander could evolve, and Charizard didn't have eggs, Charizard would be a legendary. Now, if it was discovered that only a Charmander who holds this specific item could evolve, it would change our perspectives on said Charizard. Everyone, seeking this Charizard, would search for this item, give it to their Charmander, and Charizard would no longer be Legendary. Does any of that make sense?

 

[Moonmover]

It is possible that the Legendaries are just strong, but ordinary Pokémon.

However, that would be boring and suck.

It's more fun for them to be demigods created by Arceus*, and the games suggest that this may be the case, and therefore I choose to believe it.

Besides, if you look at the Pokédex entries, many of the Legendaries seem to embody forces of nature. Zapdos** is storms, Kyogre is the ocean, et cetera.

*Excepting Mewtwo, the Lions, and any other Legendaries that explicitly have different backstories.

**Zapdos is based on the mythical thunderbird. That's pretty explicit.

 

[psyanic]

Alright, I'll give you that, but only for event Pokemon. But what about when they literally throw the Pokemon in your face, and you either have to capture or kill it (Well, not literally kill)?

Okay, let's look at the RSE games (because I love them that much). The character has to stop whatever weather crisis is present, which really depends on the game. The player is given that power because of their huge involvement with whatever team is present in the games and Steven thinks that they're the only ones that can do it, which does kind of make sense since you do beat Steven later on, or Wallace, again, depends on the game. So that Legendary Pokemon is literally thrown into your face and you have the choice to kill/capture it. Of course you'd be the ones to do that. The same thing happens with Team Galactic and all, especially the Lake Guardians. There's the fact that you had some early encounters before you officially go on your journey, at the lake with Barry, and it only strengthens the desire to go out and stop some baddies from abusing the Lake Guardians. And besides, the professor and other people urge you to do so, and it wouldn't make sense for a righteous trainer to turn down a chance to save some Pokemon and probably the world.

But most legendaries, you have to go out and capture them. Lati@s are roamers, just as the dog trio, and the bird trio in a few games, so you have to go out and find them. A lot of legendaries aren't even needed for their game's plot, so their capture is entirely optional. You don't need to catch Zapdos before you challenge the Elite Four in the Kanto games. So from the ones that you have to encounter, it's mainly driven by the game's plot.

I'm sorry, could you speak up? I couldn't hear you over my Icee.

That picture is from the Magical Pokemon Journey manga, so obviously, that picture is entirely irrelevant to the point that I was getting at. The birds were said to be oh-so key to the balance of the world in the anime universe, whereas in the, say, Pokemon special manga, that's less of a fact. The birds are strong deities that people have a hard time believing in. They are rarely sighted, blah, blah, blah.

There are still a butt load of others, those are the only ones I'm talking about. So yeah, Lati@s, Darkrai, Mew, Celibi, Pokemon like that.

I feel like I already explained them. The Lati's were said to have been some herd Pokemon, and are legendary due to their extraordinary power (such as their ability to turn invisible) and the fact that they're hardly believed to exist. Not even people in Alto Mare believe of their existence, so they're legendary based on those terms. Capturing them is more common because the world doesn't depend on them as much, because of the state of their "legendary-ness" and it's more common since they were believed to have been numerous. Mew was thought to have been an extinct Pokemon, until one came into view somewhere in the world. I think of it as like the Lati's, since they were both perceived as rare and almost unreal. Except there's only one Mew, apparently, while there are more Lati's. I can't really explain that since that's just a big plot hole in the Pokemon universe to start with.

The same kind of goes with the other less significant legendary Pokemon. Their legendary status aren't based on them being a guardian, but kind of like above, as they aren't believed or completely established as Pokemon since too few people have physically seen them, and those who do don't believe them. They're simply rare, except beyond rare. They're like uber rare. So the possibility of seeing more is likely, even though it's extremely slim, like winning the lottery ten times in your life.

Those are all things that normal Pokemon tend to do. If I had a Charizard, and I was in trouble, and the thing didn't hate every breath I took, it'd probably try to help.

Would your Charizard be able to stop a flood? Probably not. If it tried and believed it could, it would drown in the process. On the other hand, like I said, a few legendary Pokemon are legendary not because of how Arceus made them, but their low credibility in existence. Like Santa Claus. Like how Rayqauza did look like it was made as some protector. Its main role is to stop any kind of unbalance in the earth, specifically with Kyogre and Groudon, so it's understandable to see it patrolling the earth all the time.

I'm actually not sure on the dog trio, since they just happen to do things. They're legendary because there is actually only one, and that's Ho-Oh's job. It resurrected them as more awesome Pokemon after three dog-like Pokemon died in the tower fire. However, an ordinary Pokemon wouldn't always try to save its fellows. Pokemon have personality too, I presume.

The ocean is a REALLY deep place. And the ground goes REALLY far down. for all we know, there could be multiple Kyogre on the ocean floor, and none of them come up unless the water is disturbed. Same for Groudon. It doesn't seem like everything we've seen exists on one land mass, so Who's to say there's aren't a few living in each land mass?

Me. I say there is only one of each. Let's use Pokemon Special as an example. I don't want to spoil too much, but someone tries to use Jirachi to make a legendary Pokemon. This was after this person failed to completely utilize Kyogre, so it went back to sleep while he lost the orb to control it. So anyway, he does get Jirachi and makes a wish. That wish was to make some weird Kyogre. However, it wasn't the same. It was like a Kyogre, except it wasn't completely real and fully replicated. Knowing that it wouldn't work, why would this person have bothered? Because he can't control the one Kyogre already existing, so he had to take the next best thing.

There's also the Jirachi movie with Groudon. God, what's with Jirachi and making Hoenn legends. Anyway, it's in the anime and a guy uses Jirachi to create some really big and fake Groudon. Team Magma funded him and all, and they wondered why they should bother waiting with him when they could just go out and search for that one Groudon. The creation from the wish was some big fake Groudon or whatever. It didn't work.

I think the orbs are really the big clue about how there's only one of those legendary Pokemon. First, there's the stupid legend about them and we can pretty much assume that the legends are pretty accurate. They're pretty accurate in other contexts of the game, mainly Sinnoh since there are a lot of myths there, so we can assume the Hoenn creation myth as canon. The orbs wouldn't exist unless they controlled something or awaken something, since that was their purpose. In the games, they appear in the Cave of Origin, implying there to only be one. It's the same with Rayquaza, except it's Sky Pillar. The Pokemon are all at rest, etc.

I didn't mention Lugia and Ho-oh because I really don't want to mention every legendary every time I type.

Actually, you did mention them.

That means that there were three dogs before HSSS's, which were meant to be caught.

Their legend starts before the first games even started, so it's completely logical to assume that they'd roam around Johto and Kanto since they're right next to each other.

 

[voicerocker]

I wasn't saying that Arceus couldn't/can't create Pokemon, just that him being the first who created everything (Literally God) doesn't seem likely, especially since we're going off of folklore.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible to catch it, just that... well, if you were God, would you become a slave to any human? Even if you WERE caught, you have the power to create Legendary Pokemon at the very least, you'd think you could break the bonds of a pokeball.

Alright, we can go with ficitional logic.

Arceus fits the part of "god" much better than Mew would. Yes, Mew can learn every move, but that might just be what makes it unique in the Pokemon world, its "talent". Mew's and Arceus's legends somewhat contradict each other, with Mew being the ancestor of all Pokemon, yet Arceus supposedly created the world. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that Mew gave birth to Arceus using any form of logic.

Now, in-game, I know that in Gen. 4 and 5 that the Legendary Pokemon only reveal themselves to trainers that they deem worthy of capturing them. This has also been the case a few times in the anime as well. Again using Arceus, even though it is supposed to be the god Pokemon, if it were to deem you worthy of its power, would that mean it was a "slave" to a human? "Slave" implies the misuse of a Pokemon for evil intentions, as most Pokemon willingly battle for their trainers. And in the games, we all play as good trainers and as a hero with a certain quality that the Legendary Pokemon seem to admire.

I'm sorry, I can't ever bring myself to not think sense. And besides, the only time you can use that argument (No use in making complete sense out of a fictional video game universe!) is when someone is comparing the game world to real world logic. No matter what, everything has to abide by the rules it has governed for itself. I can use fiction logic to make sense of the fiction universe, because if I couldn't then it'd at best be a flawed story. Sure, I'm assuming the story should make sense, but I don't think you can really penalize me for that.

This is the logic I'm abiding by to come to the conclusion that it MAY be POSSIBLE that Legendaries evolve or have previous forms, if you wanted to know:
ONE: Pokemon evolve.
TWO: Knowledge of Pokemon is ever expanding, frequently providing new evolutions to old Pokemon.
THREE: Pokemon often have unusual evolution requisites that aren't found for years.
FOUR: The more a Pokemon is studied, the more is discovered about it.
FIVE: Most Pokemon evolve at some point, somewhere.
SIX: Legendary Pokemon aren't very well known, and most people have never seen them.
SEVEN: Because they aren't well known, people tend to make folklore about them.

ONE: Not ALL Pokemon evolve, even amongst normal Pokemon.
TWO: The previous generation offered no such pre-evolved form or further evolved form of any of the previous 493 Pokemon.
THREE: Which is odd considering Prof. Oak is supposed to be one of the most intelligent scientists in the Pokemon World, yet he originally claimed that there were only around 150 Pokemon. While he said there was the possibility that there could be more, I doubt that several years ago he would have suggested that there were nearly 500 more.
FOUR: True, but that doesn't always hint towards evolution.
FIVE: Most, yes. But again, since the creation of Pokemon, Legendary Pokemon do not evolve.
SIX: Which is part of the mystery of Legendary Pokemon and one of the factors that makes a Pokemon "legendary".
SEVEN: And some don't think they even exist.

I would just like to remind you of something. Why are 100+ Pokemon discovered every 4 or 5 years? Because Game Freak wanted them to be! In the end, that is the only reality that is certain. It makes no sense that Prof. Oak wouldn't know about an entire continent like Hoenn, Sinnoh, or Unova from the beginning. These games aren't always going to make logical sense. I once tried to breed a Snorlax and a Ditto to get a Munchlax. I got an egg, but it hatched into a Snorlax! If Munchlax is the pre-evolved form, why did I get its evolved form from my egg? Doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense at all that a male or female Pokemon can breed with a genderless Ditto.[/QUOTE]

Dialga can manipulate time, and I may be wrong cause I haven't seen the movies, but I don't think he's the embodiment of time. Meaning, he is not the physical manifestation of time that keeps it moving. I think he can stop time, move it forward or backwards, and some other stuff, but taking him out wouldn't make time stop. Again, there's logic to everything. Mine may be wrong, but that doesn't mean this game doesn't abide by logic of some sort."

Maybe it isn't the embodiment of time, but you suggested that catching it would interfere with its duties to keep time regulated. However, legends suggest the Dialga IS the embodiment of time, which adds to the speculation about it.

I don't understand. Why does only one of a legendary mean that they are a God? Also, with Legendaries that have more than one of them, that means they are just ridiculously strong normal Pokemon, right? So, for them, evolving or having prevolutions doesn't seem so farfetch'd to me even if you disagree with most else I've said.

That is what some of the people in the Pokemon world believe. Once again, it is that mysterious aspect of their origins that make them so interesting. Some people think they're gods, others don't. It's a matter of what you personally believe to be true.

Maybe the other Legends are just strong Pokemon, however, would you consider time travel normal? If you were to, then Celebi is a totally normal Pokemon. I think you may be trying to force something that isn't there with these theories of Legendary evolution. It has never been suggested anywhere that a Legendary Pokemon has evolved or will evolve. Also, Legendary Pokemon are MEANT to be mysterious. Regardless of game logic, Game Freak made them that way for a reason. They are our Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, Yeti, Chupacabra, and any other mythical creature you can name.

Professors also at one point said Pikachu was the first in it's evolutionary line. And that Scyther doesn't evolve, and that Evees only evolve into three separate Pokemon. Like I said before, their knowledge is constantly growing, which is why they tend to say such in the beginning of the games. They say things like Pokemon are mysterious, or they're researching them, or whatever. If the Professors knew everything about the Pokemon already, then they wouldn't call themselves researchers. They'd call themselves... Scribes, or Librarians. Something that has nothing to do with finding NEW things.

Once again, the "knowledge" that the professors learn is provided to them through Game Freak. At some point, you have to realize that. Using game logic though, yes they do discover things. But I believe that the Pokemon world has suggested time and time again that the Legends don't evolve.

Those are all things that normal Pokemon tend to do. If I had a Charizard, and I was in trouble, and the thing didn't hate every breath I took, it'd probably try to help. Does that mean it was made by a deity for that sole purpose? Answer: no. I didn't mean to imply that they don't protect people, just that they weren't made by Arceus for that explicit purpose. They're just like normal Pokemon, but way stronger.

The ocean is a REALLY deep place. And the ground goes REALLY far down. for all we know, there could be multiple Kyogre on the ocean floor, and none of them come up unless the water is disturbed. Same for Groudon. It doesn't seem like everything we've seen exists on one land mass, so Who's to say there's aren't a few living in each land mass?

I didn't mention Lugia and Ho-oh because I really don't want to mention every legendary every time I type. Like I said earlier, I can understand event Pokemon, everyone wants them so they add events. But if they were going to add an event, then why didn't they put them in the game for everyone to get in the first play-through? Answer 1: Keeps people's interest in the game longer. Answer 2: they aren't supposed to be considered a part of that games canon. In FRLG, the three dogs were part of the story (Post story). That means that there were three dogs before HSSS's, which were meant to be caught. Ohhhh... I'm tired of talking. I'm hungry.

Remember the alternate universe/timeline. The events of FR/LG aren't directly and totally linked to the events of HG/SS. If you play as Red in FR/LG and you catch Mewtwo, would it makes sense for it to appear in the wild again in HG/SS? No.

I'm saying that if it exists, it came from somewhere. I posted my logic numerically last post. Ex. If Charizard was found in the wild, and was extremely rare, and no one knew that Charmander could evolve, and Charizard didn't have eggs, Charizard would be a legendary. Now, if it was discovered that only a Charmander who holds this specific item could evolve, it would change our perspectives on said Charizard. Everyone, seeking this Charizard, would search for this item, give it to their Charmander, and Charizard would no longer be Legendary. Does any of that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense from a logical standpoint. This would be the same as saying that Dragonair holding a special item could evolve into Rayquaza or Giratina. But let me ask you this: Would you really want that? These concepts make sense for arguing purposes only. To suggest them as ideas that could appear in future Pokemon games sounds horrible. I would absolutely HATE to find out that Giratina is just the evolved form of Dragonair, as that takes way everything that is mysterious about Giratina. The legends that say it is a deity would be proven false and would entirely remove its status as a Legendary Pokemon.

Legendary Pokemon are supposed to be mysterious, even more so than regular Pokemon. If we take that away from them, they don't seem that interesting anymore.