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Why are people irrational?

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  • This can apply to the denial of well known political issues: evolution denial, global warming denial, Holocaust denial, just to name a few, but also to an unhealthy confidence in products: trust in certain alternative medicines, "high-energy" water, and weight loss products. And then there are others: belief in conspiracy theories, doomsday scenarios, and the paranormal. All in all, these things are what most people consider ********.

    If these views are irrational, then how are they perpetuated in society? Why don't these ideas die down when or if they have been proven wrong?

    Why do people stick to their guns in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position? Is it a choice or is it a reaction? What about on a biological level? - this might be more controversial. Do you believe certain people are just genetically predisposed to believing irrational ideas or is their upbringing and childhood more important?

    On a more fundamental level, what right do we have to judge what is irrational or not? Isn't simply a difference in opinion? Is what the majority believe usually right?

    Discuss!
     
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    Belief.


    The belief is still there and it can cause a chain of events in ones head that keeps the idea alive. Some believe it to be true despite being proven wrong, such as life outside of our planet, global warming, political stances, religious stances, and scientific opinions.

    Belief is what holds a lot of our thoughts together. For some who are overly religious, the thought of same sex relationship is irrational because it goes against what they grew up believing and isn't something they believe to be a rational thought. While in reverse those who are open minded find it irrational that they would want to subjugate others to their will and force their beliefs upon them.

    Everyone can interpret political stances in various ways. We are all raised in specific ways and through that we grow up believing is specific things. No one person has the exact same belief and therefore causes the irrational behavior to come up due to the differences.
     
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    This can apply to the denial of well known political issues: evolution denial, global warming denial, Holocaust denial, just to name a few, but also to an unhealthy confidence in products: trust in certain alternative medicines, "high-energy" water, and weight loss products. And then there are others: belief in conspiracy theories, doomsday scenarios, and the paranormal. All in all, these things are what most people consider ********.

    If these views are irrational, then how are they perpetuated in society? Why don't these ideas die down when or if they have been proven wrong?

    Why do people stick to their guns in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position? Is it a choice or is it a reaction? What about on a biological level? - this might be more controversial. Do you believe certain people are just genetically predisposed to believing irrational ideas or is their upbringing and childhood more important?

    On a more fundamental level, what right do we have to judge what is irrational or not? Isn't simply a difference in opinion? Is what the majority believe usually right?

    Discuss!

    Because there isn't overwhelming evidence against their position. What you're saying might be true about climate change, evolution, and the holocaust, however, there is reason to be skeptical about many of the things you posit - widely-accepted narratives on historical events, widely-accepted scientific and medical paradigms, and prevailing opinion on global political issues especially.

    For instance, conspiracy theories are severely denounced in our society, yet there are many cases in which conspiracy involving various levels of government, private industry, and other organizations have been involved. Look at MLK Jr........James Earl Ray said he was innocent until his dying day, and the King family believed him. A civil court case filed by the King family in 1999 ruled that his assassination was, in fact, a conspiracy. Read about it on the MLK Center website here: https://www.thekingcenter.org/assassination-conspiracy-trial

    Regarding the infamous JFK Assassination, the Warren Commission's testimony is what is propagated by positivists in the intellectual, academic world as well as the media. However, the House Select Committee on Assassinations from 1976-78 concluded that the Warren Commission was gravely flawed, and that he was likely assassinated as the result of a conspiracy.

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. The fact that these shocking revelations are never discussed in the media, to me, suggests that there is a systemic lack of integrity on the part of both governmental institutions and mainstream journalism (both of which two of the foremost factors in the development of popular opinion) - the common thread between these two entities being that they are financed by very powerful forces in the private sector (for instance, NBC was owned by GE for a long time, and their biggest sponsor is Boeing).

    Now on to science. Well, it's true that people might doubt evolution and climate change for all the wrong reasons - previously inculcated religious doctrine, industry-fed information, etc.....however, scientific paradigms sometimes become a dogma in themselves among people whose critical thinking needs more rigor. For instance, I once voiced my skepticism about research regarding heritability of IQ - in which the researchers concluded that, IQ is an overwhelmingly inherited trait (a stance that is supported by much of the field). The heritability seemed weaker earlier in life (as in, the intelligence of the progeny could more often be at variance with that of the parents), yet seemed to align itself with that of the parent's much of the time following puberty. It was assumed that this was because the genes involved in determining intelligence took that length of time to fully express themselves, as with identifying physical features........

    I argued that the researchers hadn't nearly controlled many of the possible confounding variables...the only way to do that, it seemed to me, would have to involve micromanagement of every environmental factor discernable, which would inevitably be a breach of ethical guidelines.......it seems very obvious to anyone with a scintilla of reason that this would thoroughly confound any research on heritability of intelligence. Yet I was dismissed and even attacked as being too simple to understand the complexity of the research (though I understand enough to know that the researchers themselves probably have high IQs, in addition to very comfortable egos, having allowed their research to convince them that their superiority was purely innate).

    Another instance is with the Vaccine controversy. Now, pharmaceutical companies would be taking a foolish risk to market a product that they were aware isn't safe - this rarely happens, except for in a few cases. Nonetheless, medical research is far from flawless - the biggest pharmaceutical studies involve only 2,000 or so participants and the long term effects are barely studied for more than 10 years. If it so happened that there is a severe negative reaction to a drug for every 1 in 2,500 people, this could elude such a study. If every American were to take that drug, there would be 150,000 or so people who would have a severe reaction........

    Given that, it seems very plausible that there could be dangers to vaccines that elude researchers. Yet parents of children who, for instance, may have had a seizure almost immediately following a vaccination, are denigrated for speculating that it could have been the vaccine.

    My analysis of clinical research is incredibly generous to it - the 2,000 person phase is only to check for efficacy - checking for safety is as low as 100.

    Alright, I'll stop there for today, but basically the reason why people conflate rational thought with conventional opinion, is because they are either lemmings who just want to be comfortable and entertained, or not very strong thinkers.
     
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  • People become so lost and self-absorbed in their own view of the world that they cannot see any other alternative. Common sense ain't that common. And it's much easier to be irrational and ignorant than it is to be informed and rational. With regards to conspiracy theories, well, people tend to gravitate to the irrational and outright stupid because it's different or mysterious, and more interesting. ;(
     

    Corvus of the Black Night

    Wild Duck Pokémon
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  • I think a big part of it has to do with finding the answer, getting the evidence, as opposed to vice versa. I'm not gonna make this an evolution/creationism debate but it's quite frightening how much "scientific creationists" rely on this as a way to develop theories. Every single one of the "young earth" arguments presented by these kinds of "scientists" is built around this premise, around trying to prove things wrong to support evidence for something claimed 2000 years ago, as opposed to taking evidence and developing an opinion.

    This is just an example but it's very clear how it's built. It's not just people who read bibilical literal literally though. Many people are susceptible to it. Even Einstein fell prey to it - he introduced the cosmological constant into his equations because he had a bias in believing that the universe was unchanging and constant, and this little "fudge factor" balanced the universe in this way. Evidence later showed that he was wrong and he regretted the mistake as the "greatest mistake of his career"*.

    It's something I think honestly is a part of human nature.

    *A minor point is that cosmological constant has been reentered into equations due to mysteries regarding the rate of expansion of the universe but it is not used to exclaim that the universe has no beginning
     
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    On a more fundamental level, what right do we have to judge what is irrational or not?We have a right, in fact a responsibility to weed out what was is rational and what is not. It's essential for the enlightenment and advancement of the human race that we are constantly critiquing our ideas based on what can be proved rational or not. Think of bad things that happened in the past due to what would now be extremely rational concepts being accepted as perfectly normal, e.g. segregation in America, the Holocaust. It's up to us intellectuals who have critical thinking skills or anyone with a moral compass pointing somewhere in the right direction to crush irrational ideas and people, or at least not let them have as little influence to the world as possible.

    I think this goes for pretty much anything, however it is especially true of morality - that one's interpretation of morality is founded in assumptions, (e.g., it's wrong to kill another human) - and the more assumptions there are, the less logical something is. There is very little that can be truly be called rational, such as mathematics - and even that is based on the assumption of the reliability of human intuition with regard to what is 'self-evident' (the circular basis for deductive logic). People conflate reason with their moral preferences (and preferences in regard just about everything else), in order to garner authority and credibility for their viewpoints.

    In short, the holocaust, however horrible it seems to us now, is neither rational or irrational unless you postulate some pretense (which is exactly what an axiom is) as a foundation for it.

    With regard to the intellectuals whose alleged superior mental rigor and critical thinking skills merit the marginalization of those who disagree with them - I heartily disagree. Intellectuals claim profundity of thought, however, in light of the gaping holes in some of the thinking of many in the scientific and intellectual community, this seems to be a pretense that garners privilege and esteem, which in turn allows them to tell the rest of society what they ought to believe. What's more, in my view the exaltation of the intellectual caste actually makes them dramatically (sub-consciously) less-inclined to think critically, since they derive their esteem from the status quo established by the doctrinal truths of society of which they are, in large part, the framers.

    I already spoke about the faults regarding various forms of research, and the god-like powers granted to scientific researchers of being able to imagine, anticipate and control every potential variable the universe could present....the marginalization of those who are skeptical about said research makes scientists and intellectuals seem more like a secular priesthood than anything else.
     

    for him.

    I'm trash.
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    People are irrational for a number of reasons.

    I think one of the main reasons is because humans feel. We often do things because of what we are feeling. These things could be something stupid, but for some reason we just believe it works out in the end. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't.

    Morals may be another

    Honestly there is a whole list of reasons why people are irrational. It's kind of human nature I guess?
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
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  • Our brains aren't wired to be perfectly rational 100% of the time. They've developed to where they are over time by any number of influences and factors, and plenty of random chance as well. You may as well ask why some people do whatever weird things they do. People aren't wired to be completely rational and there are many things that influence our decisions other than logic, even for those who strive to act rational as much as possible. And some people are just wired in really weird ways.

    I think if you tend towards being more rational, the people around you will start to tend that way, too. And if they're not, well, you can usually call them out on it. That's the beauty of logic.
     

    Silais

    That useless reptile
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    In most cases, irrationality creates comfort. To be blatantly oblivious to the truth of a situation can shield the person from the unwanted reality of life. Some view reality as too strict and cruel for them, which gives them a "viable" reason to shun that reality. In many cases, such as with organized religion, the creation of "explanations" of why things happen in comparison to why they actually happen can be a way to soften the truth and make it more pleasing to think, say and believe in. It would be amazing to go somewhere after death, but death is the extinguishing of all bodily functions, including the brain and heart. There is not much left except a husk of your existence, which will eventually decompose and become part of the existing earth. To me, that's comforting. I will return to the place I came from, even if that means I cease to exist permanently. For others, this is an unacceptable truth that must be masked by fable or false reality.
     

    LoudSilence

    more like uncommon sense
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    If these views are irrational, then how are they perpetuated in society? Why don't these ideas die down when or if they have been proven wrong?

    Rationality is subjective, no? This is a difficult question to tackle because there is no one standard for normalcy or "the right answer". Perspectives and ideas fluctuate, science by definition is not a constant, and a "popular" opinion one day might be a decidedly unpopular one the next.

    You must also take intuition/"gut feeling" into account...I don't know if we fully understand it but this too plays a big role in many of our stances on issues. It's impossible for any of us to state, "this is the right way to judge this opinion" because even that differs from person to person.

    I think one can safely say, however, that popular opinion should carry no value to us: the number of people holding a belief has absolutely no bearing on its validity either way.
     
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  • In most cases, irrationality creates comfort. To be blatantly oblivious to the truth of a situation can shield the person from the unwanted reality of life. Some view reality as too strict and cruel for them, which gives them a "viable" reason to shun that reality. In many cases, such as with organized religion, the creation of "explanations" of why things happen in comparison to why they actually happen can be a way to soften the truth and make it more pleasing to think, say and believe in. It would be amazing to go somewhere after death, but death is the extinguishing of all bodily functions, including the brain and heart. There is not much left except a husk of your existence, which will eventually decompose and become part of the existing earth. To me, that's comforting. I will return to the place I came from, even if that means I cease to exist permanently. For others, this is an unacceptable truth that must be masked by fable or false reality.

    I do identify with this line of thought - that people are irrational not necessarily because it's "easier" - which has a passive implication that we're letting irrationality "happen" to us, but because it fulfills an emotional need - we actively construct our irrationalities. Humans, as animals, suffer from stress. Humans, as intellectually complex animals, have to deal with abstract concepts. If we combine these two ideas it would be reasonable to say that worldviews, ideas, and opinions could be perceived as harmful stimuli, and it is in our nature to escape the harmful stimuli just like we pull our hand away from a hot stove, or move around in bed because our position is irritating.

    Provided that we are all similar in that sense, that we run away (figuratively) from things that "make our brain hurt", we can adapt so logic doesn't hurt. After all, pain is only a signal. If we all carry this natural potential of creating irrational narratives to sooth our emotional pain, we can reframe our way of thinking so that logic doesn't hurt us. If rationality is objectively better, then why not change ourselves to be more comfortable to it instead of rejecting it out of emotional pain - taking advantage of our instincts? I'm trying to explain irrationality by reducing it to a reaction against pain, but hopefully that makes sense even when simplified. I think that's all I have to say about irrationality at an individual level.

    I don't think rationality is subjective - I think it's the very opposite. While everybody has a different "threshold" of how rational an idea is, the concept itself is about predictability and choosing what is optimal. I guess in this context, our criteria for choosing what is optimal hmm that's a tough one. I might have to get back to you on this over a night's sleep or something.

    Why is science = rational = good? I'm feeling towards justifying this on increasing our material wealth. Sorry, that's all I have on this for tonight :P
     

    LoudSilence

    more like uncommon sense
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    I don't think rationality is subjective - I think it's the very opposite. While everybody has a different "threshold" of how rational an idea is, the concept itself is about predictability and choosing what is optimal. I guess in this context, our criteria for choosing what is optimal hmm that's a tough one. I might have to get back to you on this over a night's sleep or something.

    Why is science = rational = good? I'm feeling towards justifying this on increasing our material wealth. Sorry, that's all I have on this for tonight :P

    Ah, but that's what I'm getting at. Our personal criteria vary so differently that in the end it does becomes subjective, doesn't it?

    Take the example of holocaust denial. You and I and most people know -- actually for the sake of my argument I should say "think we know" -- that this is ridiculous. Tons of historical evidence and what have you.

    Now to the denier, the idea that the holocaust happened may seem equally ridiculous: "history can be modified" etc. To them, it might just be irrational to think that someone would ethnically cleanse all those "non-Aryans" (I won't say Jews because people seem to forget the other 6 million who died).

    To us, rationality is one thing, to them it's another. Who gets the final say? Who becomes the standard? Reality is nothing but our perceptions and (educated) guesses at what it might be, right? This conversation can easily turn philosophical. And we're also assuming irrationality is conscious, but can we define it as such? Wouldn't the person doing something irrational actually be rational if they know it's irrational?
     
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  • Some believe it to be true despite being proven wrong, such as life outside of our planet, global warming, political stances, religious stances, and scientific opinions.
    You have to understand that it's impossible, for now at least, to prove that there is no life outside our planet, yet there's also no conclusive evidence so far that it exists.

    Political stances, on the other hand, aren't claims of fact, so they can't be proven or disproven, although facts that they rely on can be. (I clung to the idea that socioeconomic-based affirmative action was enough to ensure equality for years until I had it shoved in my face just how badly the establishment screws black people over regardless of class, for instance. Now, although not gladly, I support race considerations - but if I still didn't, no one would be able to prove me wrong.)
     
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    I do identify with this line of thought - that people are irrational not necessarily because it's "easier" - which has a passive implication that we're letting irrationality "happen" to us, but because it fulfills an emotional need - we actively construct our irrationalities. Humans, as animals, suffer from stress. Humans, as intellectually complex animals, have to deal with abstract concepts. If we combine these two ideas it would be reasonable to say that worldviews, ideas, and opinions could be perceived as harmful stimuli, and it is in our nature to escape the harmful stimuli just like we pull our hand away from a hot stove, or move around in bed because our position is irritating.

    Provided that we are all similar in that sense, that we run away (figuratively) from things that "make our brain hurt", we can adapt so logic doesn't hurt. After all, pain is only a signal. If we all carry this natural potential of creating irrational narratives to sooth our emotional pain, we can reframe our way of thinking so that logic doesn't hurt us. If rationality is objectively better, then why not change ourselves to be more comfortable to it instead of rejecting it out of emotional pain - taking advantage of our instincts? I'm trying to explain irrationality by reducing it to a reaction against pain, but hopefully that makes sense even when simplified. I think that's all I have to say about irrationality at an individual level.

    I don't think rationality is subjective - I think it's the very opposite. While everybody has a different "threshold" of how rational an idea is, the concept itself is about predictability and choosing what is optimal. I guess in this context, our criteria for choosing what is optimal hmm that's a tough one. I might have to get back to you on this over a night's sleep or something.

    Why is science = rational = good? I'm feeling towards justifying this on increasing our material wealth. Sorry, that's all I have on this for tonight :P

    In the sense that you're talking about it, reason is subjective; however, in the sense that someone in mathematics would think of it, it is objective - and for this reason, the term 'rational' has been re-appropriated to enhance the esteem and authority of things that are not strictly rational, but might just represent or reflect a personal or collective preference or doctrine. For instance, you mention science. Science attempts to use empirical findings to form ideas about the phenomena that it studies. If it were truly rational, it would be stuck on the question of whether there is an external reality at all that can be studied, of which there seems to be no real answer. Of course, some rational principles are applied during science, (not really any more or less than they are for theology and religion), especially where math is involved, but its foundation has nothing to do with rationalism.

    It's arguable that reason is subjective even for deductive reasoning, since its foundation (which relies the intuitive capacity of humans to consider certain things to be self-evident, i.e. 2 +2 = 4,) is circular (things are logical because they are logical......).
     
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  • In the sense that you're talking about it, reason is subjective; however, in the sense that someone in mathematics would think of it, it is objective - and for this reason, the term 'rational' has been re-appropriated to enhance the esteem and authority of things that are not strictly rational, but might just represent or reflect a personal or collective preference or doctrine. For instance, you mention science. Science attempts to use empirical findings to form ideas about the phenomena that it studies. If it were truly rational, it would be stuck on the question of whether there is an external reality at all that can be studied, of which there seems to be no real answer. Of course, some rational principles are applied during science, (not really any more or less than they are for theology and religion), especially where math is involved, but its foundation has nothing to do with rationalism.

    It's arguable that reason is subjective even for deductive reasoning, since its foundation (which relies the intuitive capacity of humans to consider certain things to be self-evident, i.e. 2 +2 = 4,) is circular (things are logical because they are logical......).

    Science is also rational in the sense that it is optimizing. It involves calculating utilities and building up a body of knowledge that allows us to seek it best. If science was to be stuck on whether there is a reality to be studied at all, well, that would be a very irrational use of intellectual power. Why not study what's worth studying? At least the labour bears mortal fruit. I think that's what makes science "rational", it allows us to manipulate our material world, it effects us.
     
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    Science is also rational in the sense that it is optimizing. It involves calculating utilities and building up a body of knowledge that allows us to seek it best. If science was to be stuck on whether there is a reality to be studied at all, well, that would be a very irrational use of intellectual power. Why not study what's worth studying? At least the labour bears mortal fruit. I think that's what makes science "rational", it allows us to manipulate our material world, it effects us.

    That doesn't have anything to do with rationalism, which in its strictest form is deductive logic.....when you use value-laden terms like 'best' and 'optimizing', it's very clear you're not talking about rationalism, but rather 'common sense'.......which is perfectly normal, since, as I said before, the term 'rational', with its evocation of alleged objectivity, is typically appropriated to garner authority for viewpoints that don't actually have much to do with rationalism.
     

    Khawill

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  • Being irrational is often not intentional.
    That being said, I do it on purpose. If I don't challenge people's beliefs of what's rational, then they will force their rationality down my throat
     
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