5th Gen Why do you think Black and White has recieved so many bad remarks?

[Atomic Pirate]

Yes if GameFreak made a super-complicated, super-armored giant half tiger, half dragon demon, FOR THE POKEMON GAMES, it WOULD be a Pokemon.

Yes, it technically would be a Pokemon, but would it look like one? Pokemon does, in fact, have a distinctive visual style that impacts every Pokemon, from the cute to the monstrous. You can't simply take something and call it a Pokemon. Even the Unova Pokemon that I constantly criticize at least slightly stick to the Pokemon style.

The whole idea of the Pokemon style is one that you Unova fans often overlook while bashing anyone who dares prefer the older games over the new ones. You hate the idea that most Pokemon have a certain artistic style. For a decent retrospective on the Pokemon style, just look at some beginner Fakemon. Many of them look nothing like actual Pokemon, and much of the time it's due to a style that is quite unlike that of Pokemon, whether it be because of a larger reliance on realism, a more cartoonish style, or a different factor.

Because people don't take off the nostalgia goggles. But that's all I'm going to say, as I don't want to be a part of this convoluted conversation.

Obviously you do want to be a part of this conversation, and you're just trying to add more fuel to the fire.

As for what you actually said, what part of "I started out with Gen. III" do you not understand? Just because I started with Gen. III, that doesn't mean I think that that generation is the only good one. In fact, I prefer Johto over the other generations.


I'll (hopefully) leave the conversation with this statement:

I don't hate all Generation V Pokemon.

Just look at my username: Elgyem

Sure, I do think that many of the Generation V Pokemon were lacklustre, but a few were decent. I thought that Elgyem and Beheeyem were cool, and the concept of Reuniclus was certainly interesting. I liked some of the more animal-inspired Pokemon of the Generation (ex. Joltik/Galvantula, Deerling/Sawsbuck, Stoutland, etc.). It's not that I hate, or even dislike, the games. They were still alright, but personally I didn't enjoy them as much as I enjoyed HG/SS. Overall, I thought the games were good, but not great. I certainly liked the Unova Pokemon better than the Sinnoh Pokemon, that's one thing for sure.

Overall, I'd give the games something like a 35/40. Not amazing, but still good. I just kind of wished the game was slightly harder and the postgame was better.

 

[Munchlax11]

There are only a few of the original designers still designing pokemon. The design style has really changed. There was nothing wrong with the games, but design wise I think they are going in the wrong direction. :(

 

[Ho-Oh]

Reminder time - guys, this thread is about why you think others dislike the games, not for your own personal opinion on why they suck/why they were good, which is what Perfect Score/Compared to other generations and so on is for. We get the same discussions over and over, and if every new thread that remotely discusses opinions turns into this then I don't really think the section needs it. From now on guys, please, keep in mind you're not saying why YOU dislike them, or YOUR issues with them, and instead address other people's issues, which are the common complaints about the games. These include post game, too easy, only Unova Pokemon, Unova Pokemon are ugly, and so on. I'm sure you've seen enough about the common complaints to be able to discuss from those. :(

 

[Kanto_Johto]

Reasons why I think bad remarks are made:

1. Some of the Pokemon's designs step over a lot of people's subconscious limit i.e. they're of the opinion that things like garbage and ice cream shouldn't form the basis of a Pokemon design. I'm slightly in agreement with this. I think that garbage and ice cream Pokemon is stretching a bit too far, but hey. It appeals to some people and has proven to be somewhat successful, so I can't knock Game Freak for that.

2. Simply put, many of us have grown older, which means it is impossible to replicate the feeling of excitement we once knew as kid playing Pokemon RGBY/GSC/RSE. In other words, nostalgia goggles are worn by too many people. I've grown to accept that newer Pokemon games will likely never be as special to me as the first three series of games, so now I just enjoy the games for what they are.

3. Problems that have cropped up before appear again in BW. Lack of post game, Gym Leaders cannot be rematched, too many legendaries etc.

To be honest, I preferred BW a whole lot more than I did DPPt. I could probably write pages of complaints about those games (or at least DP).

 

[Haseyo]

I had the exact same amount of excitement playing old games as a kid and playing these newer ones. Goggles don't effect me. I know a good improvement to a series when I see one.

 

[Rivvon]

Gen 5 Pokemon being the only ones available until post-game. Before you jump the gun and start labeling me as a nostalgic-filled person, I like the new Pokemon, they're a step-up from past gens, and they were the only things done right in the questionable design choices that has happened in these two games. However, Pokemon is known for the variety available and the fun of catching them all. I'm not saying B/W isn't really varied and that you can't "catch them all", but having a team solely built of one generation kills some of that, makes the experience more boring. Gen I had the excuse of being the first in the series, this doesn't apply to B/W. I am against nostalgia glass, just to clarify.

It actually does apply to BW, because Game Freak has stated time and again that it was meant to mimic what gen 1 did--it removes the tendency to rely on Pokemon you already know so well. It's a completely fresh start. It's also why there were 156 Pokemon introduced (more than any previous generation). If anything, this "issue" is fixed post-game, where you can find Pokemon of all gens in the tall grass.


Honestly, the only "bad" remarks I've seen are those of people that are too picky. "The Pokemon's designs suck because [X]." "There are like a million legendaries." "I don't like the shape of Unova." And the list goes on.
Some of it is nostalgia talking, but a lot of it is just pickiness. Sure, the games weren't perfect, but they weren't terrible; however, if you expect everything in the games to be 100% how you want it, you're going to be disappointed, because Game Freak isn't going to come over to your house and make a game custom-tailored to your every whim.

 

[crystalzapdos]

Speak English and I might understand you better. But, from what I can pick out from this grammatical disaster,

I misspelled on word, but whatever.

And you can't argue that B/W's piddly postgame was better than the colossal G/S/C/HG/SS postgames.

Never once did I say, "HG/SS had a worse postgame than B/W." You said, "There's effectively no postgame" which isn't true at all. It had more than R/S and the original R/B/Y, and its about even with D/P.

Wait, Seel? What? What's wrong with Seel?

Aside from its terrible name, it was so bland. Its basically just a seal. Nothing made it unique.

And Voltorb, Magnemite, and Grimer had good reasons to look man-made.

Oh, so its only okay for some Pokemon to be man-made, but not all of them. That makes alot of sense.

They were man-made.

I don't understand this reason at all. Its like saying water came out of a faucet because it did come out of a faucet.

Plus, Voltorb's Pokeball-like appearance is similar to the appearance of a Mimic, a common RPG monster that looks like a treasure chest.

Okay? That doesn't change the fact that its just a Pokeball with eyes.

Ditto transformed,

Fair enough.

and while Jynx was odd, it was in fact a novelty Pokemon even at the time.

So because its a novelty Pokemon, its okay for them to be bad?

Actually, I hate D/P/Pt more than B/W.

Hey, something we both agree on.

And plus, both games have 13 Legendaries, and I'm not even going into the insanely unnecessary amount of pointless Forms.

You were right on this one. I forgot to count Victini.

The region is full of gimmicky and forgettable locales such as Chargestone Cave, the ungodly number of bridges, and Pinwheel Forest, to name a few.

What classifies them as, "Forgettable." Maybe I think Mt. Mortar, Whirl Islands, and Ilex Forest are, "Forgettable."

I didn't say Lillipup has spikes. Druddigon, Haxorus, Ferrothorn, Excadrill, Scolipede, Bisharp, and a few others do. Those spikes serve no purpose, besides to "look cool".

So what if a certain object, not just spikes, are non a Pokemon just to look cool? Don't you want them to look cool?

The Safari Zone, like it or not, was a series mainstay and allowed for the capture of some of the most interesting Pokemon in the series (Scyther, Kangaskhan, Heracross, etc.). I liked it, and many other people did.

And I didn't, but I guess this is subjective.

Oh, you liked the fact that the rivals were your best friends? I'm sorry, but many people, myself included, liked the more aggressive rivals such as Blue and Silver.

I honestly don't care about wither or not my rival is my friend or not.

Oh, you're one of the people who actually likes the stupid Fire/Fighting starters?

We've had three Pure Grass and Pure Water starters, yet you don't complain about those.

Also, there's two other starters you can choose from if it bothers you that much.

Plus, the other starters, or at least one of them, should have gotten a secondary type.

Kanto had the same situation, and none of the Johto starters had a secondary type, yet you don't complain about them.

It's a game made for everyone to play. Not just little kids.

No, its made for little kids to play. If people like you and me want to play them then fine, but your not the target audience.

And if you've ever played any of the Kanto games, not that I'd expect you to,

My first game was FireRed, and my Third favorite region is Kanto.

you'd know that taking on the Kanto E4 and especially Champion Blue is a difficult task.

Yes, it was difficult when I was a little kid with less experience, but going back to it I don't find it harder than any other regions league.

Ah, now you've just gone from being passive-aggressive to aggressive-aggressive.

And this has what to do with anything?....

What you may not understand is that HGSS didn't need random matchup.

None of the reasons you gave had anything to do with this, but okay.

They already had rematches, Red,

Fun Fact: B/W had more daily rematches than HG/SS. In B/W, you had 16 daily trainers in the Stadiums, Morimoto, Cheren, and anywhere from 3 to 7 trainers on the Royal Unova. Sometimes you would be able to battle Cynthea, which make the total for B/W anywhere from 21-26 trainers a day. HG/SS had anywhere from 4-7 Pokegear rematches, 1-3 Gym matches, Red, and sometimes a rival battle. This means there's anywhere from 6-12 rematches a day.

a number of wild Pokemon,

Your point? Every game has wild Pokemon

an expansive region,

Johto had 10 cities while Unova, not counting B/W2 exclusive cities, had 13 cities. I don't see how Johto was bigger than Unova, let alone any other region. It's the smallest of the five.

And yes, if they had Random Matchup, I would still abstain from using it. I've never really used the Global Trade Station in any of the games (Yes, even in "precious" HG/SS), so I really don't care that HGSS doesn't have a random matchup system.

If you don't use it, why are you complaining?

They took everything that D/P/Pt did right, kept it, added new features and a truly interesting region, and all in all, set a precedent for the series. They were the series' best games at the time, and I really don't think that B/W lived up to them.

Subjective. Everything here is a opinion.

To you, convenience is the enemy! Eliminate the awful conveniences!

I just don't get why people praise HG/SS so much for that. Most of the time I would hit B anyways out of habit. I don't see how not having to hold B is a convince. Its not that hard.

Oh no! How dare Game Freak make a new feature that fans love! How DARE they!

I didn't love it. I would have been totally fine with the feature if you were able to turn it off. And, as with the running shoes, it was a feature that didn't really do anything. I don't think HG/SS deserve a 10/10 for a auto-run feature and Pokemon following you. I also don't think B/W should be hated on for not having these pointless features.

It's not exactly, you know, easy to get a team in the 60s. You need to work hard at it.

Yeah, it was pretty hard considering HG/SS had almost no rematches.

But, judging by your extreme hatred, I'd expect that you're too lazy to train.

Yeah, I kind of am. I play Pokemon to have fun, and I don't exactly find raising 6 Pokemon 15 levels against level 40 wild Pokemon just to fight some trainer in a mountain fun.

You're sure, huh? Well, I just did respond to it.

Yeah, I'm shocked. I applaud you for actually responding, unlike most people.

And why do you keep bringing up Seel?

Because, like I said earlier, I find it to be a bland, non-unique animal Pokemon that's named after a horrible pun.

I know you Unova-obsessed newbies

Again, my first game was FireRed so I hardly see how I'm a "newbie." I'm simply not stuck in the past like you seem to be.

Also, Unova isn't even my favorite region, Hoenn is.

are all "HURR DURR KAYNTO AND JOTTO SUKS BEKAZ MANGMITE AND GRIMER AND YEAH!!!!1111",

And you nostalgia-fans are all like, "HURR DURR UNIOVA SUKS BEKAZ KLANK AND RABBISH AND YEAH!!!!1111"

Really, I don't go around the internet hating on Magnemite and Grimer. The only time I do this is when you people say this.

Also, I don't quite get where you get the impression I hate Kanto.

but Seel? What's wrong with Seel? It has a simple design, it's slightly cute, and it was an interesting Water-type option for a Gen. 1 team.

I've already explained this twice, so.....

 

[Ninjagon]

Those are some good points guys, some of them i read, some i didn't. The reason why i didn't read some was because they were mostly just a great, big argument. Requility is right i just wanted your opinions :).

 

[Oblivion Wing]

Honestly, I wasn't expecting much from this game when I first was informed of it's release. Yes, I agree that the new Pokemon don't look like previous art. I gave it a chance and thought that the story was pretty good, nothing like previous games (again). But I think that you can't expect everything to be better than before (happens with everything, from games, to music, anything really), just expect something good out of it. :)

 

[Atomic Pirate]

Aside from its terrible name, it was so bland. Its basically just a seal. Nothing made it unique.

And Roggenrola was a better name? It's an even worse pun.

Oh, so its only okay for some Pokemon to be man-made, but not all of them. That makes alot of sense.

The few Pokemon that were man made are a good example of the human presence in the Pokemon World. However, they shouldn't all look robotic, it's Pokemon, not Robomon.

Okay? That doesn't change the fact that its just a Pokeball with eyes.

Yet I don't see you complaining about Amoongus, which is just a mushroom with a Pokeball-like cap. This just proves you hate the old and only like the new.

So because its a novelty Pokemon, its okay for them to be bad?

Yet again, I don't see you whining about the many bad B/W Pokemon. There are bad ones in every generation. If you're going to complain about Jynx, you can at least acknowledge that there were bad ones in Unova as well (Audino, Gothitelle, Swoobat)

So what if a certain object, not just spikes, are non a Pokemon just to look cool? Don't you want them to look cool?

Is Lugia cool? Judging by it's popularity, then yes, it is very cool. Does it have spikes? No. Spikes and armor don't make a Pokemon cool.

Kanto had the same situation, and none of the Johto starters had a secondary type, yet you don't complain about them.

No, Kanto had only 1 starter with only 1 type, that one being Blastoise. Venusaur is Grass/Poison and Charizard is Fire/Flying. And with Johto, the three starters all only had one type, which was consistent within the trio. With B/W, you had a pure Grass and a pure Water, but Game Freak decided they like the Fire/Fighting tradition too much, so they just had to make Emboar a Fire/Fighting.

And this has what to do with anything?....

It has to do with the fact that you're simply bashing me and my preferences without providing any real substantial points.

Johto had 10 cities while Unova, not counting B/W2 exclusive cities, had 13 cities. I don't see how Johto was bigger than Unova, let alone any other region. It's the smallest of the five.

I believe that you're forgetting the fact that the Johto games also featured Kanto.

I didn't love it. I would have been totally fine with the feature if you were able to turn it off. And, as with the running shoes, it was a feature that didn't really do anything. I don't think HG/SS deserve a 10/10 for a auto-run feature and Pokemon following you. I also don't think B/W should be hated on for not having these pointless features.

I know how much you hate conveniences, but when a Pokemon game has these conveniences, it's easy to get used to them. And I, personally, prefer conveniences over no conveniences.

Again, my first game was FireRed so I hardly see how I'm a "newbie." I'm simply not stuck in the past like you seem to be.

Yes, I know how awful it is that I prefer the older games. I'm so sorry that I have the opinion that the older games are better. It certainly is horrifying.

And you nostalgia-fans are all like, "HURR DURR UNIOVA SUKS BEKAZ KLANK AND RABBISH AND YEAH!!!!1111"
Really, I don't go around the internet hating on Magnemite and Grimer. The only time I do this is when you people say this.

I know you think anyone who dares like the older generations better is simply "stuck in the past", but I must ask you: Have you heard of opinions before?

 

[Kanto_Johto]

And Roggenrola was a better name? It's an even worse pun.

Opinions differ, my friend. Personally I would agree that Seel is less creative than Roggenrola, so I prefer Roggenrola over it.

The few Pokemon that were man made are a good example of the human presence in the Pokemon World. However, they shouldn't all look robotic, it's Pokemon, not Robomon.

1. Again, that's your opinion, it's not a fact.
2. Not all of them look robotic anyway.

Yet I don't see you complaining about Amoongus, which is just a mushroom with a Pokeball-like cap. This just proves you hate the old and only like the new.

I somewhat agree with you on this.

Yet again, I don't see you whining about the many bad B/W Pokemon. There are bad ones in every generation. If you're going to complain about Jynx, you can at least acknowledge that there were bad ones in Unova as well (Audino, Gothitelle, Swoobat)

Pokemon that are "good" or "bad" in terms of design is a subjective matter. It's all about opinion. A lot of people would list Pokemon like Audino, Gothitelle, Swoobat, Jynx, Garbodor or whoever else in a list of their favourite Pokemon. All a matter of opinion.

Is Lugia cool? Judging by it's popularity, then yes, it is very cool. Does it have spikes? No. Spikes and armor don't make a Pokemon cool.

Again, some people may be of the opinion that spikes and armour do make a Pokemon cool, so the matter of what makes a Pokemon cool is also subjective.

No, Kanto had only 1 starter with only 1 type, that one being Blastoise. Venusaur is Grass/Poison and Charizard is Fire/Flying. And with Johto, the three starters all only had one type, which was consistent within the trio. With B/W, you had a pure Grass and a pure Water, but Game Freak decided they like the Fire/Fighting tradition too much, so they just had to make Emboar a Fire/Fighting.

I don't see why this is a problem and I never have been able to. Emboar's Fighting type is just an added bonus to create a more diverse moveset for a Pokemon that actually does suit the Fighting type. I can't understand why it annoys people as much as it does. It really doesn't matter.

It has to do with the fact that you're simply bashing me and my preferences without providing any real substantial points.

Many of your replies to him are also based on your personal opinions.

I believe that you're forgetting the fact that the Johto games also featured Kanto.

They're still separate regions though.

I know how much you hate conveniences, but when a Pokemon game has these conveniences, it's easy to get used to them. And I, personally, prefer conveniences over no conveniences.

Small inconveniences like not having a permanent run button shouldn't be reasons for someone to dislike a game when it really doesn't matter all that much.

Yes, I know how awful it is that I prefer the older games. I'm so sorry that I have the opinion that the older games are better. It certainly is horrifying.

I know you think anyone who dares like the older generations better is simply "stuck in the past", but I must ask you: Have you heard of opinions before?

I agree with the opinion that the older games are better, but I'm sure crystalzapdos respects an opinion as much as anyone else on this board does and is simply arguing his point in the same way you are. Also, you accused him of being aggressive (which is somewhat true), but now you're being at least as aggressive, if not more so in your replies addressed to him.

At the end of the day, half of the posts on this forum include forms of opinions, which you may or may not agree with. There's no need for an unfriendly environment during these kinds of debate.

 

[Dantethesaint7]

1. Some people don't like any Nintendo DS pokemon games (or even any games outside of the 2nd generation)
2. The pokemon are ugly and unoriginal. (Trubish ugly) (Vanillish unoriginal)
I don't mind ugly pokemon but the unoriginal names are killing me
I love pokemon white and black i think it is one of the best duos and i think this game changed pokemon games forever.

 

[xelarator]

To ^ Get ready to have a stern talking to by one of these debaters.

NOW, I think Pokemon B&W has received bad remarks because of opinions on the character design. Other than that, I think B&W was a good game to add to the Pokemon series.

 

[Deokishisu]

Back from the grave to chime in on this topic.

To start off, I'm firmly in the "Gen 5 Haters" camp of Pokemon fans. I played through Black multiple times, trying harder each playthrough to like it and accept it as a legitimate continuation of the franchise, but I just couldn't.

Much of it is because of the Pokemon's designs, and how utterly cut-off from the older, more familiar Pokemon you are. It's a matter of how the Pokemon just don't LOOK like anything we've come to expect, which is a huge disconnect. It's as if Game Freak just decided to go a completely different style with this one, in regards to the Pokemon's designs, and it shows as it alienates many of the players that stuck with them all these years.

Part of me thinks it's to cater to the younger crowd. The spikes and the overly complicated "unPokemon-like" designs must make the kids squeal with how awesome and bada** they look. All in all, it makes the Pokemon this time around come off as hollow, wooden, and flat.

That's not to say we didn't get good ones this time! But normally, the good ones make up a majority of the new additions. This time, it seems they are in the minority. Pokemon like Joltik and Galvantula were welcome additions. Larvesta and Meloetta were wonderful designs as well. Many of the others were not. It didn't help that many of them used the same poses and graphics as their counterparts/evolutions. It's obvious that the Kling line was built on one sprite, in one uninteresting pose. The Thundurus trio is the same Pokemon with different tails. I could go on and on.

Gen 5 didn't really bring any new mechanics this time around either. Triple Battles and Rotation Battles got lukewarm reception, because they just weren't interesting. Double battles have been around since the second episode of the anime. They just fit when they were introduced in the Third Generation, and the new abilities played off them to make them feel incredibly natural and connected. In contrast, Triple Battles and Rotation Battles feel nothing like that. The system itself feels isolated and tacked onto the game as an afterthought. Another grab at "how awesome would this be?" without thinking it all the way through.

Reducing the pinnacle of Pokemon Contests as it was when it was introduced in Gen 3, to the sad but playable state in Gen 4, to dress up in Gen 5 was terrible. Taking away features, especially when there is no endgame and how linear and restrictive the region and story felt was a regrettable decision. The removal of the Safari Zone was also a strike against this generation. The difference between Black and say... Ruby in keeping the player engaged, during and after the story, is huge.

I felt like I was trapped on train tracks going through Unova. It was a frustratingly linear experience compared to where we were just a generation ago. I understand that roadblocks HAVE to be there occasionally. Snorlax kept you from being slaughtered in Gen 1 early on. Sudowoodo made sure that you couldn't head all the way to the Lake of Rage, catch powerful Pokemon, and come back to get your 3rd badge. Those Psyducks you need to pick up a SecretPotion to move were necessary as well. Unova, by comparison, felt like a game of "When will I be stopped next?". The answer to that question came up often. There are plenty of ways the story could've been written to allow for more player freedom, but they chose to constrict the player instead. Again, I believe that this may be another catering to the younger folks who may not get the story if it wasn't presented to them in pre-chewed little chunks at every stop.

I felt that the evil team this time around had a really, really good motive. How it was handled, however, right up to when Ghetsis turned into a stereotypical mustache-twirling villain, contradicted what they were founded on. You're working to free Pokemon from oppression... by oppressing your own by battling those who disagree with you. My house is on fire, I think if I chuck more fireballs at it, it'll go out. Team Plasma would've made a fine team, probably the best in the series, if they could really, REALLY make people think about what you were doing to your Pokemon. What the world was doing to Pokemon. With the exception of N, the grunts were stereotypical, power hungry, Pokemon abusing, thugs. The exact thing they were fighting against. Team Plasma should've been filled to the brim with incredibly caring, well intentioned people. People who cared about Pokemon enough to fight for their rights. I suppose it was the attitude of basically every member of the team that caused that disconnect. And Ghetsis turning into the flat take-over-the-world thing at the end was just terrible. Also, Plasma? That's what they named their organization? Reallllllly?

There was no endgame. You beat the evil team, and suddenly you find yourself 20 levels behind the wild Pokemon in the next area, with nothing to do. The online was full of hacks, hacks that Game Freak has already shown it has the technology to detect and weed out but didn't. Also, after the blissful convenience that was the HG/SS interface, it was jarring to be stuck with the mostly useless C-Gear.

All-in-all, Gen 5 turned out to be an incredibly disappointing and hollow experience.

Edited a bit for clarity and a few added points.

 

[Nolafus]

My first game was Pokemon Black, but I did go back and play the older generation games and it made me realise something. A lot of people just look at the new pokemon seeing ones like vanilluxe and chandelure and say that they are stupid while remembering the good ones from earlier generations such as Charizard and Lapras, but in fact every generation has pokemon that are kind of lame with the design and naming (I never liked Farfetch'd because it's a duck holding a stick and what's with the name?). People say that every gen 5 pokemon is terrible, but I never got what was wrong with Zebstrika, Gigalith, Excadrill, Liepard, and Eelektross. My point is that every generation has it's up and downs and that a few bad designs that are put out there shouldn't mean that a generation is ruined.

 

[Cyclone]

My first game was Pokemon Black, but I did go back and play the older generation games and it made me realise something. A lot of people just look at the new pokemon seeing ones like vanilluxe and chandelure and say that they are stupid while remembering the good ones from earlier generations such as Charizard and Lapras, but in fact every generation has pokemon that are kind of lame with the design and naming (I never liked Farfetch'd because it's a duck holding a stick and what's with the name?). People say that every gen 5 pokemon is terrible, but I never got what was wrong with Zebstrika, Gigalith, Excadrill, Liepard, and Eelektross. My point is that every generation has it's up and downs and that a few bad designs that are put out there shouldn't mean that a generation is ruined.

There is also the opinion factor. I for one can't wait to catch a Farfetch'd in the Route 1 swarms because I am curious what it can do,; even while playing older ROMs, I never caught one.

Cyclone

 

[Hikamaru]

My thoughts on why Black and White got bad remarks:

Pokemon designs - This was one of the biggest backlashes relating to B/W, when people saw Pokemon like Klinklang, Vanilluxe, Garbodor and Chandelure they thought Nintendo were running out of ideas. However, I actually like the designs of most of the new Pokemon.

Postgame - Now, this one was well complained about, the Trainers, although having Pokemon 10 levels higher than when you beat Ghetsis were still a challenge. Then you had to find 6 of the Seven Sages, and also rematches against Cheren, Bianca and the trainers in the Nimbasa Stadiums were there for extra training. However, once you find all the Sages, people thought there was nothing to do after that.

Only Unova Pokemon in main story - The reason why only Unova Pokemon were seen before the National Pokedex was due to apparent fans of older games who relied on older gen Pokemon. This disappointed some players but not others, who knew it was the definition of a fresh start.

Battle Subway - There was basically NOTHING to do here, that was my big disappointment with the game. And most people also knew how disappointed they were, cos on the Normal lines all the Trainers use only Unova Pokemon which again made some fans not like the games. Also, Anville Town is totally optional so don't even bother.

Pokemon Musicals - Many people who loved the Contests in earlier games knew the Musical was an inferior Contest. It received a lot of distaste among players.

The Unova Starters - As I've seen, most people claim Unova has the worst starters of any region. I disagree with that cos their designs look cool. The main point on why the starters got so much hate was due to their types. First, we have Snivy, which stays pure Grass throughout its evolution. Second, Tepig which sadly became the most hated starter due to being the third starter to get a Fire/Fighting type when it evolves. People also hated Emboar's design. And finally, Oshawott which, just like Snivy, stays purely typed throughout evolution, in this case Water. On the subject of Emboar, while Fire/Fighting is an awesome type combo, many people think Game Freak are hiding a tradition.

 

[Cyclone]

Also, Anville Town is totally optional so don't even bother.

Keep in mind an Ultra Ball and a Rare Candy are found there. Also, there are traders there on weekends, but you have to have stuff first (like two Escape Ropes for a Revive).

Cyclone

 

[Atomic Pirate]

Back from the grave to chime in on this topic.

To start off, I'm firmly in the "Gen 5 Haters" camp of Pokemon fans. I played through Black multiple times, trying harder each playthrough to like it and accept it as a legitimate continuation of the franchise, but I just couldn't.

Much of it is because of the Pokemon's designs, and how utterly cut-off from the older, more familiar Pokemon you are. It's a matter of how the Pokemon just don't LOOK like anything we've come to expect, which is a huge disconnect. It's as if Game Freak just decided to go a completely different style with this one, in regards to the Pokemon's designs, and it shows as it alienates many of the players that stuck with them all these years.

Part of me thinks it's to cater to the younger crowd. The spikes and the overly complicated "unPokemon-like" designs must make the kids squeal with how awesome and bada** they look. All in all, it makes the Pokemon this time around come off as hollow, wooden, and flat.

That's not to say we didn't get good ones this time! But normally, the good ones make up a majority of the new additions. This time, it seems they are in the minority. Pokemon like Joltik and Galvantula were welcome additions. Larvesta and Meloetta were wonderful designs as well. Many of the others were not. It didn't help that many of them used the same poses and graphics as their counterparts/evolutions. It's obvious that the Kling line was built on one sprite, in one uninteresting pose. The Thundurus trio is the same Pokemon with different tails. I could go on and on.

Gen 5 didn't really bring any new mechanics this time around either. Triple Battles and Rotation Battles got lukewarm reception, because they just weren't interesting. Double battles have been around since the second episode of the anime. They just fit when they were introduced in the Third Generation, and the new abilities played off them to make them feel incredibly natural and connected. In contrast, Triple Battles and Rotation Battles feel nothing like that. The system itself feels isolated and tacked onto the game as an afterthought. Another grab at "how awesome would this be?" without thinking it all the way through.

Reducing the pinnacle of Pokemon Contests as it was when it was introduced in Gen 3, to the sad but playable state in Gen 4, to dress up in Gen 5 was terrible. Taking away features, especially when there is no endgame and how linear and restrictive the region and story felt was a regrettable decision. The removal of the Safari Zone was also a strike against this generation. The difference between Black and say... Ruby in keeping the player engaged, during and after the story, is huge.

I felt like I was trapped on train tracks going through Unova. It was a frustratingly linear experience compared to where we were just a generation ago. I understand that roadblocks HAVE to be there occasionally. Snorlax kept you from being slaughtered in Gen 1 early on. Sudowoodo made sure that you couldn't head all the way to the Lake of Rage, catch powerful Pokemon, and come back to get your 3rd badge. Those Psyducks you need to pick up a SecretPotion to move were necessary as well. Unova, by comparison, felt like a game of "When will I be stopped next?". The answer to that question came up often. There are plenty of ways the story could've been written to allow for more player freedom, but they chose to constrict the player instead. Again, I believe that this may be another catering to the younger folks who may not get the story if it wasn't presented to them in pre-chewed little chunks at every stop.

I felt that the evil team this time around had a really, really good motive. How it was handled, however, right up to when Ghetsis turned into a stereotypical mustache-twirling villain, contradicted what they were founded on. You're working to free Pokemon from oppression... by oppressing your own by battling those who disagree with you. My house is on fire, I think if I chuck more fireballs at it, it'll go out. Team Plasma would've made a fine team, probably the best in the series, if they could really, REALLY make people think about what you were doing to your Pokemon. What the world was doing to Pokemon. With the exception of N, the grunts were stereotypical, power hungry, Pokemon abusing, thugs. The exact thing they were fighting against. Team Plasma should've been filled to the brim with incredibly caring, well intentioned people. People who cared about Pokemon enough to fight for their rights. I suppose it was the attitude of basically every member of the team that caused that disconnect. And Ghetsis turning into the flat take-over-the-world thing at the end was just terrible. Also, Plasma? That's what they named their organization? Reallllllly?

There was no endgame. You beat the evil team, and suddenly you find yourself 20 levels behind the wild Pokemon in the next area, with nothing to do. The online was full of hacks, hacks that Game Freak has already shown it has the technology to detect and weed out but didn't. Also, after the blissful convenience that was the HG/SS interface, it was jarring to be stuck with the mostly useless C-Gear.

All-in-all, Gen 5 turned out to be an incredibly disappointing and hollow experience.

Edited a bit for clarity and a few added points.

Wow. Just wow. What you said here is pretty much everything I was trying to say.

 

[pokemontrainer_samuel]

For someone who has been playing Pokemon since 1999 as an 8 year old, I still find myself quite excited about new pokemon games. Well sure, initially the pokemon would look really ugly (starting from div IV, I found that I disliked new pokemon designs until I start playing the games). Basically, after seeing the pokemon from BW for the first time, I kinda felt that they were quite messed up, like one of those fanboy creations of new pokemon. I mean, a starting pokemon that looks like a clown (Oshawott) and a Racoon that's infected by red eye and his evolution that looks like a ripoff from Lion King? Now, after playing for some time, I've sorta gotten used to the pokemon designs, and even love some of them.

Actually I don't see why so many people hate the game. I'm the only person with a DS in my class, and everyone would crowd around me watching me play the game and everyone was marveled by it (if you were wondering, all of us are aged 20 and above and have played every single game of the main series). Many of my friend loved the designs of the pokemon, especially Emboar. Emboar quickly became a favourite among them even though they were all Muslims (FYI due to religious reasons, pigs are quite a touchy issue for them to the extend that Tepig was the only starter excluded from McDonald's Happy Meal in Malaysia, but let's not discuss this please). So far the only pokemon which they found weird and funny was Patrat. So I kinda doubt that the design of Gen V pokemon are that bad since all the pokefans in my place love their designs (Well they didn't see all Gen V pokemon, but I have, and I don't think that they're exceptionally ugly or terribly designed).

I think BW received so many bad remarks because of it succeeding HGSS. But hey, BW and HGSS are two totally different types of games. I believed that Game Freak were trying to explore new concepts in BW. HGSS on the other hand, is basically GSC with better graphics and extra features. Although we cannot deny they added in some new features, but other than the pokewalker and the auto run button (which I found meaningless, since years of RSE and FRLG gaming has developed me a habit of holding down the B button when walking, no matter which RPG game I play, so it wouldn't matter at all since I'll be pressing B anyway), there isn't much originality to it. BW on the other hand, tried to introduce some new untested features (triple battle, rotation battle, random matchup, DW, camera angles, musicals, gym and E4 animations etc). Well we cannot deny that some of them were lousy (I've never touched the musicals after trying for the first time because I don't really understand it), but it was something which could potentially set a new hallmark for pokemon games and breathe new life into them, instead of producing 1001 remakes of previous versions.