Why is Johto considered the best gen?

[Dunsparce]

Not everyone who likes 2nd Gen the most is a nostalgia freak. I wish people like DonRoyale would realize that. In my case, at least, it's more of the game's Presentation as a whole.

I'm STILL playing them like they just came out.

For me, it isn't "OMFG Nostalgia". I mean, the games were released in 1999/2000. 10-11 years isn't enough to be considered "Old" IMO. You all talk about the 1st and 2nd Gen like is came out along side the Atari 2600 or something. For me, it seems like yesterday that I first got ahold of my Atomic Purple Gameboy Color and Pokemon Yellow.

 

[Luck]

Carnivine - Man The developers must of really been out of ideas on this one.

What are you talking about? It was a terrible execution, not a terrible idea.

Bibarel - Idiot looking, and foolish to catch. Even if it was shiny i doubt anybody would trade for it.

Yeah, because it's totally stupid since it is the only pokemon available early that can be a good choice and a great HM slave.

Also the story line on P/D/PT is a crap stain. They completely changed it from back at Generation 1.

Because the main point of Pokemon is always its storyline. :/

Back to the point... I loved G/S/C because when i finished the elite 4 i moved on thinking 'Yay i completed Silver!' Then what? It turns out you can go to Kanto...

Well oh my god, what could ever beat that?

Maybe a region that wasn't completely half assed? I'm just spit-balling here, don't mind me.


I want to say nostalgia, but that was my first game and I thought it was absolutely horrid compared to the others(it's still great, don't get me wrong.)
They certainly didn't have impressive pokemon for the most part, but they did make bugs not useless at all(forretress, scizor, and heracross say hi) and they did introduce dark and steel.
Other than nostalgia, it just impressed everyone with all of the new features. That's honestly the only idea that I can think of that is actually the closest to being objectively true.

Also Nica, stop stalking the thread.

 

[DonRoyale]

Not everyone who likes 2nd Gen the most is a nostalgia freak. I wish people like DonRoyale would realize that. In my case, at least, it's more of the game's Presentation as a whole.

I'm STILL playing them like they just came out.

For me, it isn't "OMFG Nostalgia". I mean, the games were released in 1999/2000. 10-11 years isn't enough to be considered "Old" IMO. You all talk about the 1st and 2nd Gen like is came out along side the Atari 2600 or something. For me, it seems like yesterday that I first got ahold of my Atomic Purple Gameboy Color and Pokemon Yellow.

Speaking to the people on this forum in general, you'll have to excuse me if I can't stand hearing "OMFG 2ND GEN IS TEH BESTEST" and "4TH GEN JUST SUCKS" and have their only reasons being "OH IT WAS JUST SOOOO COOL" or some half-assed argument.

Prove me wrong that half of the people who've replied in Johto's defense don't play the nostalgia card and hide behind that as some deluded way of backing up their argument. I'm not bashing you or anyone who makes valid points, but if someone wants to say Johto was the best, say why, else your argument isn't at all valid and nobody's going to take you seriously.

Also prove why Sinnoh sucks. And don't give me "the designs were uninspired"; it's not all about the presentation. Sinnoh is probably the most independent region out of the four and has better ways of implementing the 493 existing species than any of its predecessors.

 

["Shadow Lugia"]

To be honest, I actually quite like Sinnoh, personally.

 

[Zeta Sukuna]

I don't think he was specifically talking to you. And I do need to say something. While there are pokemon designs that some people hate, other people can like them. (Heatran says hi, Nosepass says hi, Dunsparce says hi.) (Can't think of one that's widely hated in Gen 1, but then again, no one ever seems to bring it up in comparison to Gens 2, 3, and 4.)

Anyway, to claim something is the best, only on the designs of the pokemon, in my opinion, while it is okay, it should not be the only thing to base your aspirations of 'the best' on. It seems we got that right with Gen 1, but not with anything else. Gen 2 did have things going for it. Day/Night, Two Regions, Highest level final boss, Social Variety, 16 gyms, good music (Though, I like the music from all equally, and others might hate it), improved graphics over Gen 1 and the ability to get 'custom' pokeballs.

Gen 2 cons: Levels too low, lack of environmental variety, and the plotline falls a little short. Sure, it is okay, but they could have stretched it out into Kanto. That Grunt doesn't count.

But let's look at what Generation 3 and 4 had.

Gen 3 Pros: Two evil teams, good music, environmental variety, not poorly leveled, pokemon contests, weather system, unique evolutionary habits, improved graphics over Gen 2, ability to re-challenge Gym Leaders, and the Battle Frontier. (FR/LG only: The ability to rechallenge a stronger Elite 4)

Gen 3 Cons: Lack of Day/Night system, too much surfing, nothing much to do after the game that you can't do before it ends, and the inability to trade from Gens 1 and 2.

Let's look at Gen 4.

Gen 4 pros: Weather/day/night system, plot that stretches after the Elite 4, social variety, environmental variety, though it's on the low end, great music, Battle Frontier, Physical/Special split, ability to re-challenge Gym Leaders, Pal Park, Wi-fi, Honey Trees, and the ability to challenge a tougher Elite 4.

Gen 4 cons: Slight lack of environmental variety, though I put environmental variety in the pros, there is also some lack of it.

Now, I'm missing some things, so if someone wants to help me with some of this, then please post a pro or con. Gen 1 will not be in this, since there is no point in putting that one in there. Oh, and don't throw in 'dumb pokemon', because that is a matter of taste. Likely there are a few things in here that are of my own opinion, and feel free to point them out. I'm not a great debater, I'm not even good, so some of you'll tear through this. It's been a while since I played an official pokemon game, but I do remember some things.

 

[Dunsparce]

.Prove me wrong that half of the people who've replied in Johto's defense don't play the nostalgia card and hide behind that as some deluded way of backing up their argument. I'm not bashing you or anyone who makes valid points, but if someone wants to say Johto was the best, say why, else your argument isn't at all valid and nobody's going to take you seriously.

Granted, most people who replied to this thread are all about nostalgia, but many people I know both Online and IRL really enjoy the first 2 Generations for valid, non-nostalgic reasons.

Also prove why Sinnoh sucks. And don't give me "the designs were uninspired"; it's not all about the presentation. Sinnoh is probably the most independent region out of the four and has better ways of implementing the 493 existing species than any of its predecessors.

You're probably throwing this at someone else, but for the record, I loved 3rd and 4th Gen. Even though FR/LG and HG/SS were my favorite games of each respective Generation, I still had a imense amount of fun traveling through Hoenn and Sinnoh. Hell, I preordered a Japanese Platinum because I couldn't wait for its US Release, As I did with HG/SS!

 

[Waffle-San]

I completely agree, every pokemon you see on G/S/C you think 'Wow that looks awesome' Where as in pearl you thing. ho-ly ****. I mean lets name a few...

Carnivine - Man The developers must of really been out of ideas on this one.

Probopass - Nuff said

Bibarel - Idiot looking, and foolish to catch. Even if it was shiny i doubt anybody would trade for it.

Also the story line on P/D/PT is a crap stain. They completely changed it from back at Generation 1.


Quoted from Gen I series 'We managed to clone this pokemon from the most powerful pokemon in the world'

'This means that this pokemon is now the most powerful pokemon ever!'

If you don't understand, its Mew and Mewtwo.

Now Arceus is?
Couldn't they even stick to the bloody storyline?
Even in Gen II they didn't make Lugia, Ho-oh stronger...

Back to the point... I loved G/S/C because when i finished the elite 4 i moved on thinking 'Yay i completed Silver!' Then what? It turns out you can go to Kanto...

Well oh my god, what could ever beat that?

P/D/Pt were mistakes.

Alot of this is opininated to begin with so I won't go there cause that's your opinion but as for what I bolded. This point is completely irrelevant. Lets take ancient Egypt as an exemple. Or even a time when we were still discovering planets in our solar system etc. Different texts will read different things, look back into history and historians will debate who is the most influential person of a countries' or the world's history. Or the most influential event. And using Egypt as an exemple, many different people will tell you different things about the power of each Pharaoh yet it's pretty safe to assume we don't know everything about each one, or even about the existance of each one. Same thing can be said about the Dinosaur's. We're still discovering new species. If you're hating on DPPt for trivial things like that than you're already in the mindset that you hate it and are now just looking for more reasons to feel that way.

I think it helped that it was a sequel, a proper continuation from the original story, rather than the same concept set in a differet region. It gave a greater sense of continuity and made the Pokemon world feel like one, connected story. Hoenn and Sinnoh were great and all, but they were seperate from all other regions and as a result felt... detatched and isolated.

Gen II made a big deal about being a continuation of Pokemon, not a new, separate generation. Trainers had new Pokemon, but still an abundance of old ones. Team Rocket and the original E4 were back, but with a twist. Johto expanded the Pokemon world, while Hoenn and Sinnoh created new ones. I think people prefer the large, connected, expanded story to new, isolated ones.

Anyways on topic. This quote above me sums it up for me.
Of course it was also my first game and has Totodile my favourite pokemon which helps. Besides that and what Charmageddon said it comes down to the towns. 2nd and 3rd generation are my favourite gens cause the towns have real personality something that 1st and 4th gen really lacked for me.

 

[インフェルノの津波]

The only thing that I don't like is that the game (1st Part, not Kanto) was very easy.

I mean, look:

Clair's highest leveled Pokemon: 41

Volkner's highest leveled Pokemon (Platinum): 50

9 Levels difference. And, the Elite Four in Johto are not that strong either.

The plot also seems very sped up to, don't cha think?

 

[Waffle-San]

Speaking to the people on this forum in general, you'll have to excuse me if I can't stand hearing "OMFG 2ND GEN IS TEH BESTEST" and "4TH GEN JUST SUCKS" and have their only reasons being "OH IT WAS JUST SOOOO COOL" or some half-assed argument.

Prove me wrong that half of the people who've replied in Johto's defense don't play the nostalgia card and hide behind that as some deluded way of backing up their argument. I'm not bashing you or anyone who makes valid points, but if someone wants to say Johto was the best, say why, else your argument isn't at all valid and nobody's going to take you seriously.

Also prove why Sinnoh sucks. And don't give me "the designs were uninspired"; it's not all about the presentation. Sinnoh is probably the most independent region out of the four and has better ways of implementing the 493 existing species than any of its predecessors.

Too be honest, reading your other post, most your arguments are opininated (Opinions on towns for exemple) just as the ones against Generation IV are. But when debating "favourites" it's hard to avoid that so I'm not faulting you at all. I agree with you for the most part. Generation IV is unfairly hated on. It definately did input the 493 pokemon better than any generation that can't be denied. Generation IV is probably the best generation as it keeps on building. It's not my favourite though, probably because though I liked Mt. Coronet adn Mt. Stark together they were too much mountain for me.

According to the people on here you have to like everything that's new and consider it an improvement upon the past, otherwise you're biased and basing that opinion on nostalgia.

That's incredibly stupid by the way.

The reason Gold/Silver/Crystal is the best genration is because it was the last generation with actual thought and creativity put into the gameplay; from the characters, to the towns, to the Pokemon. Pokemon games after that are just generic, bland, and overly-easily to guess.

You kind of contradicted yourself there, though Gen II was my favourite generation I think that generation IV is the best generation.
Johto was my favourite region because to me personally the towns had personality and they had flair. I like spending significant amount of times in each town. Another thing that I didn't like as much about Sinnoh was towns like Celestic town were essentially pointless. You talked to Cynthia's grandmother but there wasn't anything to do there. Johto's towns almost all had something to occupy your time with (especially Crystal)

That alone is huge for me, but I'll fully admit that nostalgia is a part of it, not only was it my first game (though I had played blue at friends houses) it came at a time in my life when I wasn't so critical. That and with FireRed and LeafGreen Johto became the "forgotten" region. It'd be so long for some of us that you just came to miss it, and when you miss things, you generally forget about the bad things associated with it. Whether they admit it or not that's a big part of it for everyone! But as some people in this thread have already shown it isn't entirally nostalgia. That's why it bugs me more when people unfairly hate on the later games.

 

[coolcatkim22]

But what frustrates me about this topic is that nobody ever argues why Johto is the best. People always go with the mindset that Gen II is the best. Why are you bringing up Kanto? Kanto's not a part of Johto.

Hey!
I argued why Johto is the best, it's just nobody read it because I was kind enough to give spoiler tags instead of leaving Wall-O-Texts every where.

 

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

Well, I say because of it's originality.

Johto was very abstract, and was it's own region, and having a lot of different aspects to it, and not just aspects that it borrowed from the previous region.

All the pokemon newly introduced were original, too.

And, it just sorta has it's own feel to it. I really like johto. If I were to live in the PokeVerse, I would definately settle down in the Johto region.
Hm, perhaps Violet City?

 

[yaminokaitou]

G/S/C was cool because it contained not only Johto but also Kanto. It had a day/night feature, the bug catching contest, the poketch thing where you could re-battle trainers, additional pokemon, and most importantly, the clone cheat. That was awesome back in the day.

 

[bobandbill]

My arguments in that Johto was not the best region stem from the fact that as a standalone region, it sucked. It was more of a sequel than a standalone region, and that's part of what makes me prefer the later generations (Especially Gen IV) - Johto needed Kanto; without it, it outright sucked. Imagine not being able to travel to Kanto and get the other 8 badges, do that pointless and tedious Power Plant quest, and most importantly, partake in the epicness that is the Red battle. Would you be so inclined to sing its praises? You came all this way to fight an Elite Four who caps off at the halfway mark? Yeah, fail.

I feel that had Kanto not been included and Johto kept separate (which would have been a bit odd given the geography of what the regions are based on...), than Johto would have been bigger, the quest longer and the levels higher. One could do what-ifs with the other regions/generations as well I suppose... besides, i did like Johto as well - places like the Lighthouse had that...vibe, for instance. The Ruins of Alph had all of those secret caves to explore, and parts to it like the hidden radio signal that added that little bit that got to me when I played the games. I loved sitting in Dragon's Den to find my rival sitting there while listening to the music. I found the Ice Path fun with the puzzles it threw up at me - probably my favourite Strength puzzle even if now I can do it as quickly as I please - and again the music (and the HGSS version of it too) was one of my favourite tunes - I still on occasion hum it. It's hard to say exactly why I liked a lot of the places in Johto, but I certainly do like it, and not just for nostalgia I feel either - it's a whole bunch of stuff.

Dark and Steel were introduced solely to balance Psychic-types. IMO, Steel is an unbalanced type nowadays because most of the offensive Steel-types are incredibly difficult to take down and force Fire attacks to be used.

Well, Fire and more so Fighting I feel (especially with the Rock-Steel types). But yes, they were made to balance out the (broken) Psychic type.

Violet = that place you go so you have 1000 directions to track the dogs in.
Azalea = some old guy makes balls for you
Goldenrod = gigantic and confusing, and you're here all too much.
Ecruteak = actually a neat and generally interesting place. plus there's ho-oh. and the dogs.
Olivine = that tedious lighthouse and that random gym leader with no flunkies that's actually really hard in gen II.
Cianwood = you get your badge here and then never go here ever again. except in gen IV, when they fixed this.
Mahogany = like goldenrod in that you're here for too long. stupid team rocket...
Blackthorn = omfgdragons. the place is so boring it makes me sick. the dragon's den is sorta nice but it's still a rather dull city IMO.

What was that about an interesting region?

Oh, and the Dark Cave / Mt. Mortar; possibly the most useless dungeons EVER? Every single dungeon in Johto felt tedious, unnecessary, and boring. The only saving grace is the Ice Path, whose wild Pokemon are at least interesting.

Matter of opinion, I suppose. Many of the places you disliked I liked a lot though... and a lot of these comments I find I could apply to every other region as well (say, the comments on so-and-so a dungeon being useless - what was useful about the cave under Cycling Road in D/P/Pt for instance? That was by far more tedious IMHO, without even a ready access to Flash for a good while, nor a reusable form of it either, and when it's less effective as well).

But yeah, each to his/her own on GSC and Johto or any other gen/region. I suppose it's a debate that'll never end really, given the debates I've seen on them throughout forums. XD

 

[blueblur155]

G/S/C was the best because of the INNOVATIONS that it added to the series. True, R/B/Y created one of the most popular franchises in video game history, but G/S/C perfected the formula by: 1) adding two more types to balance power between all types, 2) adding the day and night change and making different pokemon appear at different times of the day, and 3) letting you go back to all previous regions in the series (even if it was only kanto) and exploring all of the new things a different region could offer. And, of course there was them adding more pokemon, but not too many to overload the player like the following games in the series would eventually do.

As you may or may not be able to tell from this, I really like G/S/C

 

[Bluerang1]

Wow, you people convinced me.. *shakes head* NO! I don't get the hype for this lame generation with ugly Pokemon. I really should play Silver, because that's what peoples opinions are focused on with Kanto in it and all that, to see the hype. If only someone could lend me it 0:-)

 

[Charmageddon]

You don't get the hype for a game you haven't played? Maybe you should play it, then you'd get a better idea. ;)

 

[Amore]

My guess is this:

1.Lots of people on here started with G/S/C
2.It has 2 regions, and by the sounds of it, a more complete quest (i mean, come on, you go to all that effort conquering your home-region, then just hang around there battling the same old people again and again even though you're way stronger than them?)

 

[Uecil]

I always figured it's because a lot of the users here were at an impressionable age when they played Gold or Silver for the first time, so those games impressed them the most. Being less impressionable nowadays, newer games fail to leave an impression.

thats is so true, i could be possibly lucky cos i remember the first time
the first pokemon game came to the UK being at 16 yrs old, and most of the johto stuff was quiete popular i think.

 

[lucariojon]

its because its where most people started there Pokemon journey( w/ Pokemon Gold/Silver)


and Jhoto is a region,not a gen XD

 

[joshay]

I personally love the fact you can play KANTO + JOHTO. Plus, im increasingly getting the feeling that as the Generations progress we're distancing ourselves further and further away from the classics like Oak and Gary (Blue) and all those 1st gen pokemon which are no doubt the best ;)