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Pinkie-Dawn

Vampire Waifu
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    I don't know that he'll actually leave and stay gone though. I think if he hears them start talking about another one he'll come back because MGS is like his baby. You don't let someone else take your baby. That's how series turn to muk.
    That may be already too late for him, because Konami is already making a new Metal Gear game without him.


    The same thing happened with Masahiro Sakurai. He was ready to leave it all behind after brawl, but when they started making the last one he just couldn't let someone else take it over and he decided to come back. And he'll probably be with it until he dies.
    And then his fans will constantly belittle future Smash Bros. titles with him as director simply for the lack of playable Ridley or any other highly-requested fan favorite.


    off-topic: w00t, 4000 posts!
     

    Morkula

    [b][color=#356F93]Get in the Game[/color][/b]
  • 7,297
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    Don't worry, you're not the only one.

    Only Metal Gear game I've ever touched at all was the original one on the NES, and uh...I was so bad at it I couldn't get past the second screen or so. It's a bit embarassing. :X And I've never thought to try out the other games at all.
    After many years of trying to get into the series, I beat MGS1 last year on Easy and still found it to be pretty difficult - partly because it hasn't aged very well at all. I've made up my mind to catch up with the series and play MGS5 this year, so I have plenty of it ahead of me. Tried picking up MGS2 tonight, started on Easy, alerted every single guard and died on the very first screen.

    Yeah, this is gonna take a loooooooong time.
     

    machomuu

    Stuck in Hot Girl Summer
  • 10,507
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    After many years of trying to get into the series, I beat MGS1 last year on Easy and still found it to be pretty difficult - partly because it hasn't aged very well at all.
    You know there was a remake for the Gamecube by the name of Twin Snakes, right? Generally I recommend that to people instead, though MGS1 is probably the more convenient title to get (due to availability).

    I'm a big MGS fan, but I don't really find the idea that there are people who haven't played unbelievable. It's a classic series but not really a universal household name in the way of average players.
     
  • 13,131
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    After many years of trying to get into the series, I beat MGS1 last year on Easy and still found it to be pretty difficult - partly because it hasn't aged very well at all. I've made up my mind to catch up with the series and play MGS5 this year, so I have plenty of it ahead of me. Tried picking up MGS2 tonight, started on Easy, alerted every single guard and died on the very first screen.

    Yeah, this is gonna take a loooooooong time.
    Ah ha ha whoops!

    I'm pretty certain that's how it would go down with me if I tried playing those at all. Being stealthy, what is this concept I don't get it.

    I'm a big MGS fan, but I don't really find the idea that there are people who haven't played unbelievable. It's a classic series but not really a universal household name in the way of average players.
    I know in my case, it was a combination of not being able to find the games easily plus not being much into those kind of games, so I didn't really go looking for them. Give me a copy and I'd probably try it, but otherwise nah.
     

    Satoshi Ookami

    Memento Mori
  • 14,254
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    Okay, who was first with bringing Kojima info? =D

    I think this is more Kojima's decision then Konami's
    It's both, it's probably something like...
    Konami: Hey, we wanna moneeezzz, so... create some new crappy MGS
    Kojima: How about no?
    Konami: Ok, you're fired
    Kojima: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    What are Konami even thinking.
    Kojima doesn't start with P.
    PES and Pachinko are.
     

    Mark Kamill

    I like kitties
  • 2,743
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    • Age 31
    • Seen Jun 13, 2023
    I think both sides are wrong, from what it seems Kojima has a big ego, but Konami has a bigger wallet. Kinda fitting that such a franchise should finish over politics and power-struggles within the company.

    But yeah, who is left at Konami? The Hudson Soft merger was probably fruitless, and major players from there probably left years ago, Iga vanished a couple of years ago, Yamaoka and Ito are long gone, and those Love Plus dudes also jumped ship. At this point they're literally the PES company from here on out. I mean, they killed Castlevania by stupidly giving it to Cox, just imagine MGS in the hands of a western developer. *Shudder*.
    Sorry for the language, but I'm pretty sure this a pretty apt summary at this point:

    Image Removed - please don't use images with profanity as it's censor bypassing - Matt/El xoxo
     
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    Yukari

    Guest
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    It's both, it's probably something like...
    Konami: Hey, we wanna moneeezzz, so... create some new crappy MGS
    Kojima: How about no?
    Konami: Ok, you're fired
    Kojima: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Wouldn't surprise me if that was exactly what happened.
     

    Alexander Nicholi

    what do you know about computing?
  • 5,500
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    I've never been much of a challenge gamer, lol. But I did like Columns III, and since you couldn't play the later bosses but on a harder difficulty, it got tough.

    Often times what we'd play on my dad's PS3 were just thrift shop games or something, and they were okay. Not great games at all but he's Mr. Frugal and has to get the best of the best...

    I really didn't like Sonic Heroes for the PS2, but loved Burnout Takedown and Revenge like nothing else. I've watched my uncle play Need For Speed (if that's the one that's a police chase) and I... didn't really care for it. Burnout Paradise City was also lovely too.
     

    Hi!

    or some say Kosm...
  • 191
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    • Seen May 3, 2017
    If Metal Gear goes to shit, Konami will fade into video game irrelevancy as that one company who makes a football game now and then along with shitty Metal Gear games. They just have to hope that whoever they put onto Metal Gear projects in the future can carry Kojima's vision and talent I suppose? I saw they're already hiring for future projects.
     

    Yukari

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    Wouldn't surprise me. When Inafune left Capcom Megaman went to hell in a hand-basket.
     

    pkmin3033

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    I think it's a shame that the series is probably doomed either to infinite remakes or outright death with this, as it certainly isn't going to do Konami any favours, but...well, it's not a series I really care for. Much as I enjoyed the first game and the Twin Snakes remake on Gamecube, the other titles really didn't do much for me.

    I expect something similar but better will come along eventually, though...something always does. Some people might even argue that it already has! Although anyone looking to carry on with Metal Gear is going to be under constant scrutiny, and I don't envy anyone who tries.
     

    machomuu

    Stuck in Hot Girl Summer
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    Wouldn't surprise me. When Inafune left Capcom Megaman went to hell in a hand-basket.

    I think it's a shame that the series is probably doomed either to infinite remakes or outright death with this
    But...is that really so bad? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love both Megaman and Metal Gear, but Metal Gear Solid 4 had what I considered to a good ending to the series (well...almost, if you've beaten it, you'll know), and Megaman has lived through various iterations and dozens of games. They've lived long lives, so I don't see why we can't just leave it at that.

    If we don't let older series pass on, we won't really be able to pave the way for the originality and inspiration of games and franchises to come. I've personally never been a fan of asking for sequels of series that have lived full lives (remakes are a different story, as they're a good way of modernizing- or at least preserving older games, which I have no problem with). And I know this is a strange thing to say, as gaming is still very new and we don't really have a lot of series that have passed on, but I feel that we shouldn't keep trying to get companies to shell out more entries for games that already offer so much and don't really promise to offer more than they've given.
     

    Yukari

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    But...is that really so bad? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love both Megaman and Metal Gear, but Metal Gear Solid 4 had what I considered to a good ending to the series (well...almost, if you've beaten it, you'll know), and Megaman has lived through various iterations and dozens of games. They've lived long lives, so I don't see why we can't just leave it at that.

    If we don't let older series pass on, we won't really be able to pave the way for the originality and inspiration of games and franchises to come. I've personally never been a fan of asking for sequels of series that have lived full lives (remakes are a different story, as they're a good way of modernizing- or at least preserving older games, which I have no problem with). And I know this is a strange thing to say, as gaming is still very new and we don't really have a lot of series that have passed on, but I feel that we shouldn't keep trying to get companies to shell out more entries for games that already offer so much and don't really promise to offer more than they've given.
    If, after the newest Metal Gear, Konami never touched the series again, I'd be okay with that really. What I'm more concerned with is that they'll continue making horrible games just for the sake of making money. And I really don't want that to happen with Metal Gear.
     

    pkmin3033

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    Is there not room for both? I don't see why we can't encourage new IPs whilst preserving the older ones, modernizing them for newer generations and improving upon them as the gameplay mechanics they introduced are refined as times goes by. The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive: old series don't have to die for good new ones to come into their own. Old series can always be improved upon, the same as any others.

    Just because the media takes the view that every action-adventure title is a Legend of Zelda clone, or every RPG is inferior to Final Fantasy VII, doesn't mean that we have to. Regardless of whether or not popular, long standing series continue, fresh new IPs and ideas are going to come out, and those comparisons are going to continue to be made; it doesn't make a difference if they continue or not.

    Video games are constantly improving - at least on balance; you get good games and bad ones, but gameplay mechanics are constantly being enhanced and improved upon - and I think as long as this is the case, no series should be summarily dismissed just because it's been around for a while. There are still plenty of ways they can improve upon Metal Gear Solid's gameplay, plenty of ways they can continue the story, and this has zero bearing on the quality of new IPs by comparison.

    I can see your point, and to an extent I agree with you - as I said, I didn't much care for the series beyond the first game - but if we're going to start doing away with franchises that have out-stayed their welcome, Metal Gear Solid wouldn't even come close to being near the top of the list.
     

    machomuu

    Stuck in Hot Girl Summer
  • 10,507
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    Is there not room for both? I don't see why we can't encourage new IPs whilst preserving the older ones, modernizing them for newer generations and improving upon them as the gameplay mechanics they introduced are refined as times goes by. The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive: old series don't have to die for good new ones to come into their own. Old series can always be improved upon, the same as any others.

    Just because the media takes the view that every action-adventure title is a Legend of Zelda clone, or every RPG is inferior to Final Fantasy VII, doesn't mean that we have to. Regardless of whether or not popular, long standing series continue, fresh new IPs and ideas are going to come out, and those comparisons are going to continue to be made; it doesn't make a difference if they continue or not.

    Video games are constantly improving - at least on balance; you get good games and bad ones, but gameplay mechanics are constantly being enhanced and improved upon - and I think as long as this is the case, no series should be summarily dismissed just because it's been around for a while. There are still plenty of ways they can improve upon Metal Gear Solid's gameplay, plenty of ways they can continue the story, and this has zero bearing on the quality of new IPs by comparison.

    I can see your point, and to an extent I agree with you - as I said, I didn't much care for the series beyond the first game - but if we're going to start doing away with franchises that have out-stayed their welcome, Metal Gear Solid wouldn't even come close to being near the top of the list.
    Yeah, I'd agree with that, I wasn't really trying to put the "out with the old, in with the new" point as the crux of my argument, it was more of a related point. But it's more the case that I don't really think there's a need to constantly extend older series to modernize them. Remakes, for instance, offer a lot in the way of freedom in terms of design in moderation. Some take the orthodox route and just improve the graphics and tighten controls/features (ie Ocarina of Time 3D/Majora's Mask 3D) while others go all out and change aspects of the story, gameplay, characters, and the like (ie Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;birth). Similarly, I don't think there's anything wrong with revival entries either, ones meant to revive old series or completely restart them- since I don't think they have to stay dead.

    My only real point here is that I don't think we should keep asking for more and more sequels to series or, if they do, expecting the same or a similar experience as they've been receiving if they do get them. I'm not trying to say that something like Metal Gear has been here too long to keep on going, but when a series has an ending- a point where it can stop and leave the player satisfied, I don't really see any reason to push it- and I guess "push" is kind of the idea here. With Metal Gear Solid 5, that wasn't something that was called for because of massive outcry, that was a Kojima development (or possibly a Konami one, for financial reasons). With something like that, I don't really see any reason to worry. But with something like Megaman, where Keiji Inafune has left the company, pretty much anything Capcom does with the series comes under scrutiny, and people still ask for more...you're really playing a dangerous game.

    And I'm not saying that series need to die, but when I see series that have recently come to an end and lived something of a full life (which the length of, I'd say, varies from series to series) and then people ask for more, I often have to wonder if they got anything out of the experience at all. It really seems to be the difference between potato chips and an expensive steak from a high class restaurant, where in the case of the latter you just eat and you eat, and at the end you want more. There's not so much a sense of fulfillment as there is the enjoyment of eating it in the moment, while in the case of the steak you enjoy it and, once it's gone, you're sad (so to speak), but you're glad you had it and the experience left you satisfied.

    Or, I guess a more relatable way to put it is the difference between Call of Duty and Chrono Trigger, because it's the same way really. But in the end, I guess it's better for me to say that I don't think that we should constantly ask for companies to shell out more and more from series that have lived full lives rather than that they should pass on. Having said all of this, I can't well say that there's anything wrong with wanting more out of a series you love or a company responding to demand, as there is always potential for a series to go on and still feel fresh. It's just that, if pushed to a certain extent, it can become unhealthy for a series (especially in the case of something like Megaman or any series that is samey throughout several entries).
     

    pkmin3033

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    Yeah, I'd agree with that, I wasn't really trying to put the "out with the old, in with the new" point as the crux of my argument, it was more of a related point. But it's more the case that I don't really think there's a need to constantly extend older series to modernize them. Remakes, for instance, offer a lot in the way of freedom in terms of design in moderation. Some take the orthodox route and just improve the graphics and tighten controls/features (ie Ocarina of Time 3D/Majora's Mask 3D) while others go all out and change aspects of the story, gameplay, characters, and the like (ie Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;birth). Similarly, I don't think there's anything wrong with revival entries either, ones meant to revive old series or completely restart them- since I don't think they have to stay dead.

    My only real point here is that I don't think we should keep asking for more and more sequels to series or, if they do, expecting the same or a similar experience as they've been receiving if they do get them. I'm not trying to say that something like Metal Gear has been here too long to keep on going, but when a series has an ending- a point where it can stop and leave the player satisfied, I don't really see any reason to push it- and I guess "push" is kind of the idea here. With Metal Gear Solid 5, that wasn't something that was called for because of massive outcry, that was a Kojima development (or possibly a Konami one, for financial reasons). With something like that, I don't really see any reason to worry. But with something like Megaman, where Keiji Inafune has left the company, pretty much anything Capcom does with the series comes under scrutiny, and people still ask for more...you're really playing a dangerous game.

    And I'm not saying that series need to die, but when I see series that have recently come to an end and lived something of a full life (which the length of, I'd say, varies from series to series) and then people ask for more, I often have to wonder if they got anything out of the experience at all. It really seems to be the difference between potato chips and an expensive steak from a high class restaurant, where in the case of the latter you just eat and you eat, and at the end you want more. There's not so much a sense of fulfillment as there is the enjoyment of eating it in the moment, while in the case of the steak you enjoy it and, once it's gone, you're sad (so to speak), but you're glad you had it and the experience left you satisfied.

    Or, I guess a more relatable way to put it is the difference between Call of Duty and Chrono Trigger, because it's the same way really. But in the end, I guess it's better for me to say that I don't think that we should constantly ask for companies to shell out more and more from series that have lived full lives rather than that they should pass on. Having said all of this, I can't well say that there's anything wrong with wanting more out of a series you love or a company responding to demand, as there is always potential for a series to go on and still feel fresh. It's just that, if pushed to a certain extent, it can become unhealthy for a series (especially in the case of something like Megaman or any series that is samey throughout several entries).
    Remakes don't encourage creativity and progression in quite the same way a brand new title does, though. When you're remaking a title, you're bound by certain conventions: you can update the gameplay and add aspects to the story, yes, but you're still essentially re-relasing content several years old. It might still be good, but it isn't a fresh idea, so I think a continuation of a series is needed every now and then, so that developers can experiment with all-new ideas, rather than covering the same ground again and again, just in a slightly different fashion. I realize you can argue that they do that with sequels and such anyway, but the option not to is always there.
    I think a reboot would actually be a better way to go, though - it's a great compromise in that it gives people more of the series that they love, and lets developers modernize the series and take it in a completely new direction. Plus the reboots I've played in recent years (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow springs to mind here) have been fantastic; sometimes it's exactly what is needed.

    Oh, I'd agree with you...the misplaced sense of entitlement fans have of series these days is ridiculous; just because a game is slightly different to its predecessor or expectations does not mean it should be shunned, or dismissed, and so on. These things shouldn't be pushed, but at the same time, just because they have a definitive ending to a story doesn't mean that they have to come to an end...prequels, alternate stories, or sequels from different perspectives should always be possible. Pushing a story that's got a definitive ending is bad, I'd agree, but I would say that the series shouldn't be bound by a single story thread - the world is bigger (or should be bigger) than a single character. In the case of Metal Gear Solid, something like Metal Gear Rising is a great way to carry things on.
    But I think, regardless of who develops a game in a series, there is going to be scrutiny; it's inevitable when a series is popular. Look at the debacles surrounding FFXIII, DmC: Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 5/6, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker...the list is endless. Once a title hits it big, everything that follows it is compared to it, and if things don't measure up to ephemeral, often unrealistic and wholly unreasonable vocal majority expectations, there is hell to pay, regardless of how good or bad the title actually is. I don't think Metal Gear Solid should be tied to Kojima because, whilst he might have started the series off and made it what it is, that doesn't necessarily mean he's the only person who can carry it on, and scrutiny will come regardless of who does it. The same would apply to any other title. As long as the idea is solid, I don't think it necessarily needs to come to an end. Of course, if the idea isn't solid then that's another matter entirely, but just because one person can't do it doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there who is equally competent, if not more so.

    I guess it's because people get so much out of a series that they want more of it - the phrase "too much of a good thing" doesn't really seem to apply to video games for a lot of people, because things remain fun. I mean, I buy and will continue to buy a lot of series, because I doubt I'll ever get bored of them, and I love the little things that are changed or added in each instalment to make them feel fresh. I think it depends on the frequency and the nature of the titles, really. As you say...the difference between Call of Duty and Chrono Trigger.
     

    Pinkie-Dawn

    Vampire Waifu
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    I think a reboot would actually be a better way to go, though - it's a great compromise in that it gives people more of the series that they love, and lets developers modernize the series and take it in a completely new direction. Plus the reboots I've played in recent years (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow springs to mind here) have been fantastic; sometimes it's exactly what is needed.
    Lords of Shadow isn't really a good example of an excellent reboot, because it's more of an example of how not to foolishly allow western developers to handle a Japanese franchise, as shown with the sequels.
     

    pkmin3033

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    Lords of Shadow isn't really a good example of an excellent reboot, because it's more of an example of how not to foolishly allow western developers to handle a Japanese franchise, as shown with the sequels.
    I can't agree with that - whilst Mirror of Fate had its flaws when compared to past handheld titles, and the sequel had a couple of thoroughly aggravating gameplay flaws, the original was absolutely fantastic, and a superb example of how to reboot a series properly. It had fast paced and fairly balanced combat (at least until you unlocked Ultimate Light...), one of the best voice casts I've ever seen in a video game, and the story was excellent, especially considering the twist at the end. It was considerably better than the PS2 and N64 attempts to bring the franchise to 3D.
     

    Mark Kamill

    I like kitties
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    I'm sorry, but as faulted as Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness were, they had the markings and makings of a Castlevania game through and through. Next you're gonna tell me Silent Hill Homecoming was another great example of Konami trusting western devs with another of their failed franchises.


    On an off-note, Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness easily have the best Vania OST's by far.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5skhBmzOS90
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokFRRJJK94&index=32&list=PLC9359A4F839EBF37
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSqb_H80JtM&list=PLC9359A4F839EBF37&index=41
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX_IQJoFNKY&index=21&list=PLhHcMbVmbwCdK5kWCn-zzwnp_PBtLGyFK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xquXNv7RMKI&list=PLhHcMbVmbwCdK5kWCn-zzwnp_PBtLGyFK&index=56
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BqRA7WyesQ&index=50&list=PLhHcMbVmbwCdK5kWCn-zzwnp_PBtLGyFK

    What I would do for remasters....
     

    Judge Mandolore Shepard

    Spectre Agent
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    If I would like to point out that I have never played any of the Metal Gear games.

    In other gaming news, last week I saw a trailer for the next Lego video game. The next Lego video game is Lego Jurassic World. It is based on the Jurassic Park movie franchise. Course the trailer I saw showed that it will becoming out in June and that two of the systems it is coming out on are Xbox 360 and Xbox One.
     
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