[Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl] Will HMs make it over?

[Sheep]

Do you think HMs will return in Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl? They were a core mechanic of the original games and one could argue if this is a fully faithful remake they'll keep them, but on the other hand, traversing the world without them is so much easier.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

Since we still needed them in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, we probably will still be using them.

 

[pkmin3033]

I think they will make it over, yes. I suppose judging based off ORAS having HMs would be an awkward comparison since HMs were still a thing back then, but given that these are remakes and they'd have to either redesign the puzzles or incorporate an entirely new mechanic similar to what was in Gen VII to get around it, just bringing back HMs seems like an easier option, development-wise. Although given that Game Freak aren't the ones developing these, they could opt for a more player-friendly approach of having something like the ride system again.

But an easy way to get around HMs would be to just have them as forgettable moves like TMs. That way they're not permanent, which makes them much easier to tolerate.

 

[Skystrike]

While they did keep them in ORAS, starting in Generation 7 they've been trying to have them less and less. Sun and Moon had Poke Rides, LGPE had Secret Techniques that the Partner Pokemon could perform, and Sword/Shield just didn't have the elements in place for it. I could see them keeping HMs, but there's a good chance that they just replace them with something else. Hopefully it's the latter, because good lord does Sinnoh need it

 

[Lysander]

Sincerely hope not, could do without needing to use Defog or needing five HMs to get through Victory Road again

 

[FeraligatrMaster]

I hope HM's stay away forever. If they have to return, I want to see something like in Pokemon Unbound, Pokemon Coral, and Pokemon Crystal Maeson, in which Pokemon can use HM moves without having them in their movesets.

 

[Nah]

They're definitely gonna have HMs and it's gonna be exactly the same as it was in the originals

 

[Setsuna]

Since we still needed them in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, we probably will still be using them.

My memory isn't the best so please forgive me if I'm saying anything wrong here, but I did wanna give my take.

I think this is a good point but it's not really the same between ORAS and BDSP. ORAS was made before Sun and Moon, which was the game that took out HMs in favour of Ride Pokemon. Anything before that still used HMs, including X and Y. Since ORAS was built pretty much in the same way as XY, HMs were still the norm. This is our first remake since HMs have been phased out, so I think it's less likely we'll be using them for the sole reason that ORAS did.

For me, personally I hope they're aware that DP is the game notorious for having lots of HMs and having them be pretty bad (Plentiful uses of Rock Smash, awful surfing speed, hell the west end of Route 226 requires several uses of Rock Climb to even pass through) and if any game needs them phased out, it's DP. A big hope I think I share with a lot of people is the games will be sped up, and remakes are the perfect time to introduce quality of life changes like that.

That's more what I want and not what I think will actually happen.
...To be honest, I think they'd care more about being faithful to the originals than greasing the wheels, so unfortunately while I hate to admit it, I think it is likely we'll see continued HM usage in BDSP.

 

[Caite-chan]

In a remake of a game that had a bunch in the first place yes. But in the future if say Sword and Shield ever get a remake then no because they never had them in the first place.

 

[Catto]

I hope so. I know a lot of people hate those but I think they add an extra difficulty to the games and are perhaps one of the reasons why SwSh feel so empty. Apart from the world being too big there's almost nothing to interact with the environment and it lacks puzzles.
One the other side, I wish we could make our pokémon learn them without taking one of the 4 attack slots in the game. Like you still need a pokémon that's able to use it but you don't have to sacrifice a strategy line only to get across the land... ><

 

[Iceshadow3317]

My memory isn't the best so please forgive me if I'm saying anything wrong here, but I did wanna give my take.

I think this is a good point but it's not really the same between ORAS and BDSP. ORAS was made before Sun and Moon, which was the game that took out HMs in favour of Ride Pokemon. Anything before that still used HMs, including X and Y. Since ORAS was built pretty much in the same way as XY, HMs were still the norm. This is our first remake since HMs have been phased out, so I think it's less likely we'll be using them for the sole reason that ORAS did.

For me, personally I hope they're aware that DP is the game notorious for having lots of HMs and having them be pretty bad (Plentiful uses of Rock Smash, awful surfing speed, hell the west end of Route 226 requires several uses of Rock Climb to even pass through) and if any game needs them phased out, it's DP. A big hope I think I share with a lot of people is the games will be sped up, and remakes are the perfect time to introduce quality of life changes like that.

That's more what I want and not what I think will actually happen.
...To be honest, I think they'd care more about being faithful to the originals than greasing the wheels, so unfortunately while I hate to admit it, I think it is likely we'll see continued HM usage in BDSP.

You are 100% correct. I had forgotten we didn't stop using HMs till Sun and Moon, and we very sparsely used them in Unova and Kalos. However we did still require them a lot in ORAS.

That being said, I think that is the very reason we will be using HMs. Because they were required so much in Sinnoh. Because this is just a remake of a game with already established routes and what not, we will probably still need HMs. I think it would be hard to incorporate anything that isn't HMs without changing the entire game.

Let's Go you could argue used Pika/Eevee Powers instead, however, Let's Go was a completely new game. There was barely anything the same as it was in Red and Blue. It was completely remade. Technically it isn't even the same game since in that game, it is canon the Red, Blue and Green all had already done their journeys.

Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar were all built with that in mind, so they were built to require very few HMs or none at all. ORAS was already established, so they couldn't really change it, which is why we needed HMs so much compared to Unova and Kalos.

With them saying size and stuff was all kept in mind, I don't think there is much they can do unless they rebuilt the entire game like with Let's Go. If they did rebuilt the game, which I don't think they did, then I'd me more inclined to believe that there would be no HMs.

That being said, I think having ride pokemon in Legends is for that exact reason. They built the game with the idea of no HMs in mind.

 

[Setsuna]

That being said, I think that is the very reason we will be using HMs. Because they were required so much in Sinnoh. Because this is just a remake of a game with already established routes and what not, we will probably still need HMs. I think it would be hard to incorporate anything that isn't HMs without changing the entire game.
With them saying size and stuff was all kept in mind, I don't think there is much they can do unless they rebuilt the entire game like with Let's Go. If they did rebuilt the game, which I don't think they did, then I'd me more inclined to believe that there would be no HMs.

While I agree with you on that, I think saying that it would change the entire game is an exaggeration. They could simply just use other methods to limit progress, and the game would still feel the same. For example instead of needing Roark's badge to use Rock Smash, maybe you get a different item from Roark that would allow you to smash those rocks? It'd be the same kind of thing, the prerequisite and end goal are the same, but the idea of teaching your Pokemon a move for it would be removed, which I think is everyone's biggest problem with having HMs at all. I think it could be similar to Sun and Moon's Ride Pokemon (You're totally right about them keeping the size of the game in mind, I think Ride Pokemon specifically would just be too big to fit in spaces like caves where you require Rock Smash) and I think the originals already do this in some way, with the south end of Route 207 having a slope you need the bike for, which you won't get until after Gardenia. They could've put a Cut tree there and accomplished the same goal.

Though I think this does start to blur the lines between having HMs and not. They'd basically just be the same thing anyways, and you could argue Ride Pokemon are just "new HMs" from the beginning.

 

[Raticate128]

Hmmmm, they did mention something about "modern conveniences" in these games. Maybe getting rid of HMs is one of them?

 

[Momoro]

Sadly, I highly doubt it. HMs are a really good memory of the older generations for me, but I just can't see them returning. 😔

 

[adelgirl]

I hope not, but do still expect them to be in due to oras still using them.

 

[PageEmp]

Hopefully not, although I won't mind if they are still there. Gen7 was the first time we saw no HMs, and ORAS were made before that, so I don't think we need to bring that into the equation.

 

[Figure]

HMs are my complete nothing, if they are or aren't in the game, won't make any difference to me becasuse I can plug them all into the team I am gonig to use anyway. We spent what, like close to 20 years with them before they were taken out of the games anyway so it won't really feel like a drag.

 

[Palamon]

That line on the website about modern conveniences of newer Pokemon games makes me think they won't have HMs. Let's go Pikachu and Eevee didn't have them, and those were, by definition remakes as well.

But, if there are HMs in this game, I hope they handle them like that secret teqniques in LG/PE so they don't take up move slots. I don't think they'll just remove all the obstacles the original games had, but maybe there will be a middle compromise.

You can also argue that in ORAS, once you got the Eon Flute, you didn't need HMs, but I digress.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I can't imagine that they would include them. Every set of remakes has incorporated elements of the generations they're in to make the games more enjoyable. Mobility throughout the region in particular is an element that's been brought up to speed in all of the remakes.

 

[Zeostar]

I hope they never return. I always catch a wild pokemon for the weak HM's anyways, so personally it saves the tedium. It's also a terrible feeling when I can't learn a powerful move because "Cut" is taking up a spot.