Would you consider Anime/Manga as something of literary value?

[RaveSage]

As a long time anime watcher and avid analytical reader, I've wondered if Japanese animation and (possibly) manga could be treated in the same manner as popular movies and novels that have deep underlying themes in them. It's clear that many animes meant for older audiences can present deep questions, outline some literary technique, or present a viewpoint of the writer/director. The question I keep thinking of though is would it be possible to write such things down and have it be taken seriously? Especially in American culture where anime is often debunked to child entertainment. Feel free to post your thoughts on anime's literary value in general or examples of themes, tones, ect that you've noticed in anime. You know, the stuff you should be learning in high school English classes.

 

[twocows]

Certainly. Anime is sometimes ignored in the US because nobody cares enough to look into the medium, but it really shouldn't matter how you tell a story, so long as you tell one.

 

[Dawn]

Eeeh, no. Not books. Movies, yes. But not books. Anime cannot meet a good book in literary value.

 

[T3h Kaiser]

I certainly think that as an art form it has potential, and that's what really matters. But unlike cinema it doesn't really have much of a foundation. It hasn't really proved itself yet. Unfortunately, the anime industry started it's maturation process in the Internet Age, and thus is trapped in an endless cycle of fanbase pandering; with the anime studios in such a constant connection with their fans, they have had no time to build up a repertoire of classics with real value... only time giving people what they want, which is almost always a bad thing.

Before Hollywood really got into a rut it put out things like Casablanca, It's a Wonderful Life and Veritgo. Anime doesn't really have anything like that.

Eeeh, no. Not books. Movies, yes. But not books. Anime cannot meet a good book in literary value.

I think it's sort of a shame that people put books on such a high pedestal. Sure there are some literary greats, but the written word really hasn't been the same since the turn of the 19th century. Where we once had works like Beowulf and Gilgamesh and Outlaws of the Marsh, now we have... Twilight and Eragon, meaningless garbage. Seriously, go make a run down through your local bookstore and you'd be surprised at how much of it is just awful; books aren't the perfect, infallible medium like people try to make it out to be.

 

[shookie]

Before Hollywood really got into a rut it put out things like Casablanca, It's a Wonderful Life and Veritgo. Anime doesn't really have anything like that.

Thank goodness I read that twice, for a moment I thought you were saying Hollywood got into a rut and released Casablanca.

It isn't just anime and manga that's being turned down as sources for analytical feedback. Western comics and cartoons aren't always revered as fantastic sources either. Chances are a high school English teacher will turn down any kind of comic or cartoon, whether it's Dragonball Z or Spider Man.
Most animation/manga takes themes that are already widely used in former literature as well, or they're just plain old based off of stories that already exist. Miyazaki is a great example of this, just look at Ponyo and Howl's Moving Castle.

But you can't overlook the obvious thing, either. Teachers were raised, taught, and have taught in a much different generation. When you're looking at things from a high school class aspect, it's also much MUCH easier to give everybody in the class used copies of books or stories that they already have on hand, with class outlines they already have prepared. That's not to say they can't change it over the years, but there's only so much change they can put into their class.

College is much more "free" about it, though. They might not offer specific classes for it at liberal arts colleges, but some do hold lectures or workshops revolving around Japanese literature/manga/anime, and depending on your major, art schools will mention it in some courses.

 

[Esper]

Generally shoujo and shonen manga don't have much in terms of themes and all that deeper literary stuff. Josei and seinen manga can have it, but a lot of is just bawdy or violent, i.e., not suited for kids, but not really with any literary merit. Most manga is mass produced, easy entertainment, but even some of these can have a lot more to them. Take a widely popular manga (in Japan, that is), Glass Mask, a story about a girl who wants to be a stage actor, and as you read through it you'll see plenty of cliche romance and drama, but some of the volumes are devoted entirely to showing the plays the characters are in and include lots of well written dialogue and narration. It has believable characters and real character development.

For movies, a classic example is Ghost in the Shell. It's widely accepted (even outside of Japan) as being better than 95% of movies out there. It's got everything one of your deeper, thought-provoking movies has. If you want something that's just moving and human then watch Grave of the Fireflies. You'll cry. You will. Millennium Actress is another movie I think stands toe to toe with many of the good movies out there and miles above the money making, but lackluster movies like Twilight.

I think it's sort of a shame that people put books on such a high pedestal. Sure there are some literary greats, but the written word really hasn't been the same since the turn of the 19th century. Where we once had works like Beowulf and Gilgamesh and Outlaws of the Marsh, now we have... Twilight and Eragon, meaningless garbage. Seriously, go make a run down through your local bookstore and you'd be surprised at how much of it is just awful; books aren't the perfect, infallible medium like people try to make it out to be.

There are so many good authors and books from the 20th and 21st centuries. Hemingway, Nabokov, and since we're in the Japanese forum, Murakami. Most of what's written isn't very good, just like most movies aren't very good, but even back in the 19th, 18th centuries there were loads of mediocre books. They just haven't survived beyond some archives somewhere and we're left with the best. No one will be reading Twilight a hundred years from now, but they will be reading things like A Farewell to Arms.

 

[T3h Kaiser]

There are so many good authors and books from the 20th and 21st centuries. Hemingway, Nabokov, and since we're in the Japanese forum, Murakami. Most of what's written isn't very good, just like most movies aren't very good, but even back in the 19th, 18th centuries there were loads of mediocre books. They just haven't survived beyond some archives somewhere and we're left with the best. No one will be reading Twilight a hundred years from now, but they will be reading things like A Farewell to Arms.

Right, I'll agree to that. I just think it's sort of a shame that people cling to this idea that everything should be compared to books, as if they're somehow pure. Sort of like how the mainstream gaming industry seems intent on comparing itself to Hollywood.