Moveset Help & Other Questions

[Griffinbane]

Step 1: Select a Pokemon that you would like to use.
Step 2: Select a Pokemon that you think would pair well with it.
Step 3 (or move it above step 1): Decide on a strategy that you think you would be able to pull off (Trick Room, Rain, etc.)
Step 4: Select a Pokemon that will help you pull off this strategy.
Step 5: Determine your weaknesses and mitigate it.
Step 6: Repeat steps 4 and/or 5.
Step 7: Test your team.

That's really the gist of it.

 

[WingedDragon]

Step 1: Select a Pokemon that you would like to use.
Step 2: Select a Pokemon that you think would pair well with it.
Step 3 (or move it above step 1): Decide on a strategy that you think you would be able to pull off (Trick Room, Rain, etc.)
Step 4: Select a Pokemon that will help you pull off this strategy.
Step 5: Determine your weaknesses and mitigate it.
Step 6: Repeat steps 4 and/or 5.
Step 7: Test your team.

That's really the gist of it.

It seems to me that Chomp is only useful in Sandstorm teams am I wrong?

 

[Griffinbane]

Chomp is useful if you have a slot in your team where it can help cover your weaknesses, like if you don't have a heavy hitter or you have too many things that are fire/electric/etc weak. So yeah, you're wrong. Part of the problem seems to be that you're just crossing out Pokemon because you find them good in one and only one situation when they're a lot more flexible than they look on first glance.

For example, let's take a look at a Garchomp and Politoed combo. Politoed is weak to grass and electric but Garchomp shrugs off both types. Garchomp is weak to ice attacks but Politoed laughs at them. They can take care of each other's weaknesses and hit back hard. If you throw in something with Wide Guard (like Machamp or Hitmontop), you can use spread damage til your heart's content. Or throw in Tyranitar and take advantage of disrupting your opponent's weather control with your own double weather team and boost up Garchomp at the same time. While you're at it, bring a Swift Swimmer or Azumarill along. And if you're bringing in Belly Drum Azumarill, you're gonna need something to pull off damage from Azu or any other Pokemon that are in trouble, that means Rage Powder or Follow Me (aka Amoongus). If you find your team is crippled by status, Lum Berries or Safeguard is calling your name. It just keeps going and going.

 

[WingedDragon]

Chomp is useful if you have a slot in your team where it can help cover your weaknesses, like if you don't have a heavy hitter or you have too many things that are fire/electric/etc weak. So yeah, you're wrong. Part of the problem seems to be that you're just crossing out Pokemon because you find them good in one and only one situation when they're a lot more flexible than they look on first glance.

For example, let's take a look at a Garchomp and Politoed combo. Politoed is weak to grass and electric but Garchomp shrugs off both types. Garchomp is weak to ice attacks but Politoed laughs at them. They can take care of each other's weaknesses and hit back hard. If you throw in something with Wide Guard (like Machamp or Hitmontop), you can use spread damage til your heart's content. Or throw in Tyranitar and take advantage of disrupting your opponent's weather control with your own double weather team and boost up Garchomp at the same time. While you're at it, bring a Swift Swimmer or Azumarill along. And if you're bringing in Belly Drum Azumarill, you're gonna need something to pull off damage from Azu or any other Pokemon that are in trouble, that means Rage Powder or Follow Me (aka Amoongus). If you find your team is crippled by status, Lum Berries or Safeguard is calling your name. It just keeps going and going.

Im sure you have been doing the competitive thing a long time now, and Ive only been doing this a year more/less. Was it difficult for you that first year to even get an idea of what you want to do?

 

[Griffinbane]

What, doubles or singles? Singles I pretty much rebred my main team and used that in battle and then slowly edited it over time as I figured out my strengths and weaknesses. Doubles I've been playing in-game for a while and it was my favorite format. But doubles competitive, I literally went and built a team two days before my first VGC. Half a dozen people over at TC can vouch for me there because they dropped Pokemon on my head once I figured out my team... and figured out I couldn't breed it fast enough. Mind you, I didn't know how to battle doubles competitively, I ran a hyper-offensive rain team and caught my opponents off-guard.

 

[Nah]

Whatcha all think of this Greninja set?

Greninja w/Life Orb or something
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 136 Sp.Attack, 120 Attack, 252 Speed
Moves: Hydro Pump, Water Shuriken, Ice Beam, Power-Up Punch

Before you ask "dafaq is this?", I found it on Smogon's page discussing Greninja. It caught my interest. So I bred and trained a Greninja with this set. The idea apparently is to use Power-up Punch to boost attack to make Water Shuriken a deadly priority move, with Ice Beam for coverage and Hydro Pump for raw damage.

Do you think this set would work in Battle Spot battles (I'm not planning to use this for Showdown battles)?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Whatcha all think of this Greninja set?

Greninja w/Life Orb or something
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 136 Sp.Attack, 120 Attack, 252 Speed
Moves: Hydro Pump, Water Shuriken, Ice Beam, Power-Up Punch

Before you ask "dafaq is this?", I found it on Smogon's page discussing Greninja. It caught my interest. So I bred and trained a Greninja with this set. The idea apparently is to use Power-up Punch to boost attack to make Water Shuriken a deadly priority move, with Ice Beam for coverage and Hydro Pump for raw damage.

Do you think this set would work in Battle Spot battles (I'm not planning to use this for Showdown battles)?

Dedicated mixed Greninja isn't that strong. While 95 Attack is decent, it's not the best offensive stat to utilize. Greninja's physical moves aren't that strong, while Greninja itself is fast enough not to rely on priority. Water Shuriken is also unreliable and weak.

 

[Nah]

Dedicated mixed Greninja isn't that strong. While 95 Attack is decent, it's not the best offensive stat to utilize. Greninja's physical moves aren't that strong, while Greninja itself is fast enough not to rely on priority. Water Shuriken is also unreliable and weak.

Aw, that's too bad:(. I'm gonna have to breed up another one then. What set would you recommend instead (for Battle Spot battles)?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Aw, that's too bad:(. I'm gonna have to breed up another one then. What set would you recommend instead (for Battle Spot battles)?

-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-U-turn/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Hasty/Timid
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Protean

If you choose to use U-turn, you can just use Reset Bags in Super Training or EV-reducing berries to clear away the EVs that Greninja has.

 

[Ársa]

-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-U-turn/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Hasty/Timid
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Protean

If you choose to use U-turn, you can just use Reset Bags in Super Training or EV-reducing berries to clear away the EVs that Greninja has.

I may be of a minority, but I don't feel it necessary to sacrifice defense for the means of slightly increasing the power of U-turn. In all honesty, it's simply a means for scouting. Assuming 31 Atk/Def, you're giving up 24 Def points for 29 Atk points. Do those 29 points net Greninja a crucial 2/3HKO?

 

[PlatinumDude]

I may be of a minority, but I don't feel it necessary to sacrifice defense for the means of slightly increasing the power of U-turn. In all honesty, it's simply a means for scouting. Assuming 31 Atk/Def, you're giving up 24 Def points for 29 Atk points. Do those 29 points net Greninja a crucial 2/3HKO?

While U-turn is meant to scout, Greninja's Protean ability gives it a reason to use a Hasty nature, giving U-turn STAB and dishing out more damage with Hasty. I don't know how to use the damage formula/calculator, I'm afraid.

 

[Ársa]

I'm obviously aware of how protean can influence U-turn. However if you'll be using Greninja as a scout, there will be times where it may need to switch into a move. Most importantly, Greninja can switch into Azumarill's water moves and threaten with STAB Grass Knot. The lowered defense may hinder this ability, and that's only one example.

Either way, not intending to get into an argument, just giving my thoughts that's all.

 

[WingedDragon]

Can Wide Guard protect you from your own moves?

 

[Nah]

Can Wide Guard protect you from your own moves?

Yup, it can: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Wide_Guard

 

[WingedDragon]

How does one determine a team goal? All im doing is throwing random pokes together and lose -_-

 

[dreyko]

How does one determine a team goal? All im doing is throwing random pokes together and lose -_-

To get a team goal first determine what you want to accomplish. For example do you want to KO your opponents team with fast hard hitting beaters, or stall them out with SS/Hail + toxic/burn. (Obviously there are a lot more strategies than this) Once you have your strategy determined next you need to decide what pokemon, items and moves will help you best achieve those goals.

It is also important to decide what pokemon work well together and which compliment each others strengths. Team synergy is a good thing to have no matter what your strategy is.

 

[Xairmo]

What are some good special and mixed sets for Greninja?

 

[WingedDragon]

To get a team goal first determine what you want to accomplish. For example do you want to KO your opponents team with fast hard hitting beaters, or stall them out with SS/Hail + toxic/burn. (Obviously there are a lot more strategies than this) Once you have your strategy determined next you need to decide what pokemon, items and moves will help you best achieve those goals.

It is also important to decide what pokemon work well together and which compliment each others strengths. Team synergy is a good thing to have no matter what your strategy is.

is that why pokes r divided into tiers? or is that just a smogon thing?

 

[Ársa]

is that why pokes r divided into tiers? or is that just a smogon thing?

Tiers effectively scale-up. Staring at NU, the pokemon that are too powerful for that tier move up. This continues to Ubers. Just because a pokemon is tiered in UU however, does not mean it is useless in OU. However generally, the reason for a pokemon being below OU is one of either: bad stat distribution, limited movepool, considerably bad typing, or it is outclassed by another pokemon in close to every facet.

 

[Nah]

What are some good special and mixed sets for Greninja?

Greninja w/Life Orb or Expert Belt (or Assault Vest?)
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid/Hasty
EVs: 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed
Moves: Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Grass Knot/Spikes/Hidden Power

Most special Greninjas follow a set similar to that. The last moveslot gives you options depending on what you need/want. Mixed Greninja is harder because its Attack is just a tad bit too low (95 aint bad, but still). But to attempt a mixed set:

Greninja w/Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 136 Sp.Attack, 120 Attack, 252 Speed
Moves: Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Power-Up Punch, Water Shuriken

I was told this set isn't that effective, but if you wanna try it....
You could also try this as a mixed set:

Greninja w/Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 252 Speed, 244 Sp.Attack, 16 Attack
Moves: Hydro Pump/Surf, Night Slash, Ice Beam, U-turn/Grass Knot/Hidden Power

This I came up with offa the top of my head. Not sure if it'd work, but like I said, mixed Greninja isn't easy to do.