I'm getting bored of this and want to do some other stuff with the rest of the night and weekend so this'll probably be my last post on this as well. I'll try to make it short. I'll probably fail.
Redstar said:
What are you talking about? I responded to your post.
Not until I was already writing my post, and not until after quite a few other posts had been made as well. Why didn't you just make a second post that I wouldn't have missed? You usually only need to edit your post if no one else has posted yet to avoid double posting... When you edit an old post, you should sort of expect people to miss it.
Redstar said:
Sentient means "self-aware". Sapient means "wise". A sentient being can be sapient (the many learned humans), but a sapient being must always be sentient... You can't be one or the other.
Did you even read most of the post that I brought those up in...? I'm not saying they're sapient and not sentient, I'm saying that to be on the level of a human you have to be all three, and normal animals are not all three. What you should be saying instead of all this other stuff is that they don't have all three. That's what this whole argument was about until it became more focused on what canon is.
Redstar said:
I never said that nothing after second gen wasn't canon... Third gen is my favorite generation.
Redstar said:
Well I'm just going on RBY and GSC, but Pokemon are pretty much treated like animals in those gens. My friends that have played the later games say they're still treated that way
How is it your favorite generation if it's only your friends that have played the later games...?
Redstar said:
Ants are very commonly compared to a computer, with each ant forming a biological component of switches... They can compute a lot of things, but surely you don't believe ants are sentient?
Chimps have near-human intelligence, and have been noted to conduct strategy for war, making tools, and art... Yet they have no concept of teaching their young, of cooperation for the benefit of the whole, and are severely patriarchal with the females raped. Their intelligence is specialized. I would argue that they're sentient, but not sapient. Possibly not even self-aware.
And your point with all of this is...? It's the same thing I'm saying; animals, which are not on the level of a human in regards to intelligence and ability to think, don't have all three qualifiers. I am saying that Pokemon do, and so are on the level of a human. I said that in the post I brought all this up in, stop making me repeat it. Of course if I do manage to make this my last post here I won't anyway.
Redstar said:
I have done research. I own the game.
Redstar said:
I've never talked about Colosseum before now. All I've said are things I've read about the game, or I've seen my brother do when he plays the game.
Seems like your brother's the one who owns it (unless you mean XD, in which case they're sort of the same thing). Things you've read about it and seen your brother do are hardly research. Your lack of knowledge regarding what purification actually entails is proof enough of that.
Redstar said:
It's not game canon. It's anime canon. There's different lines of continuity, which don't always intersect.
If you can bring up manga canon so often as support, I think I should be able to use anime canon. Otherwise, you drop the manga stuff.
Redstar said:
Actually, they are. Several episodes explain that all the humanoid beings in the Milky Way were implanted by an ancestor race that prodded evolution along with preprogrammed DNA.
Damn, should have seen that coming. <_< Fine then, Battlestar Galactica. In both the original and new version the humans on Earth (both Earths in the new one) are all the same as the humans on the colonial colonies with no common relation.
Fiction hardly matters anyway. It's not like bipedal = humans, nor does humanoid = **** sapien. They're just traits the living beings may have.
Redstar said:
Breeding is canon, because they're explicitly referenced by other people in the game. A gameplay feature is separated from that by either never being mentioned or being mentioned in a very vague way. Pikachu not being able to evolve in Yellow is a feature because it was never explained... The footpring guy is a feature because he occupies his own little world and his sole purpose is providing insight into things requring features: friendship.
Tying into something else you're saying, the berserk gene is never mentioned anywhere. Therefore, by your own definition, it's not canon and so shouldn't be used in these arguments just like you don't want Yellow to be used. Characters, even memorable ones like the kid who likes shorts a little too much, also aren't canon I guess. The Sinnoh myths? Not mentioned anywhere else. Wow, guess you're right! They're not an integral part of the game so they're out of canon as well!
Redstar said:
Stem cell is kinda, you know, visible.
Wrong on so many levels. Stem cells are not visible, they're just as microscopic as every other cell. What does a stem cell have to do with rewriting genetic code and genes anyway? Stem cells are just cells that lack any defined function and have the ability to adapt to a specific, undefined function.
Redstar said:
Yes, exactly what I said. New canon is, once again, canon that has been expanded or retconned so takes precedence over older canon.
That's...not what I said though. I'm saying that your concept of separating canon through its age is ridiculous and that the normal canon separation is between the game, manga, and anime.
Redstar said:
Pokemon aren't converted into energy... They're digitized. That's stated in canon with the whole, you know, putting them in computers thing. Converting them to energy would also violate the laws of thermodynamics.
This isn't Digimon, you know. They're clearly converted into energy, what else do you call all that red stuff the ball shoots out and goes inside the ball and everything? And in the anime they're not stored in the computer, they're stored alternatively at a Professor's laboratory (which is where Ash keeps his Pokemon) or at a Pokemon Center (which was shown in early episodes of the anime). The actual process of sending them through a computer is really just teleportation, and who knows how that works seeing as we don't have the technology. As for storage with the game, who knows? It's never clarified as to what's going on or how it works, so you can't really use it to prove anything.
The law of thermodynamics would only be violated if energy was created or destroyed. Since mass is already energy (I point again to e=mc^2, or energy equals mass times the speed of light squared), an equal reaction would be just fine. Just because we don't have the technology doesn't mean they couldn't. If anything, "digitizing" something would be even more of a violation of thermodynamics...
Redstar said:
Christians hold lambs sacred as representative of Christ, and shun snakes as representative of Satan.
We don't hold lambs as sacred, we hold Jesus as sacred. -_- They're a metaphor, nothing else, and unless you're one of the crazy people who take everything in the bible literally, they don't really mean much else.
Redstar said:
It happened because putting legendaries previously unable to be caught into a game raises sales. You'll note that the events to capture them happen after the main game, suggesting they are outside the normal continuity. No one suggests that Sgt. Johnson making out with an Elite at the end of Halo is canon... It happened at the end of the game, as a bonus. That's all I'm saying. Bonuses are rarely, if ever, considered canon.
Then the berserk gene must also not be canon because it happens after you defeat the elite 4, which according to you seems to be the end of the game. Except with Pokemon games, there is no end. The only time when the elite 4 were the end of the game was in first gen, every generation after has included additional content after the elite 4 which extends the game and so means that the elite 4 are not the end. This includes G/S, which has the entire Kanto region (and the berserk gene) after the end of the game. The only end is when you've done everything in the game there is to do, including catching all Pokemon. Saying they end when you finish the main, initial "goal" is like saying that The Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion both end when you finish the main quest, despite there being a ton of other stuff you can still do afterwards. I'd say that non-canon "bonus" endings are actually a lot rarer than canon ones.
Redstar said:
And this is why I try not to argue anything regarding the manga since I'm unfamiliar with it. Still though, as Bobandbill said, manga and game canon are separate and I thought we were arguing game canon here. The manga is generally radically different from the game and anime so perhaps they are like animals and stuff there, but that means little for any other aspect of Pokemon. The manga directly contradicts the anime in that regard (badges clearly don't have any special properties in the anime and Pokemon are clearly intelligent) so you can't say that anything in the manga has relevance to the games.
Redstar said:
I don't see why anyone would ignore me considering I've raised valid points, explained my rationale for believing them at every turn, and held steady even while being attacked by bobandbill and Shrike simply due to their inability to read. Plus you can certainly be a hypocrite like Valentine and "ignore" me publicaly, in which case I'll still respond.
Newsflash: The whole damn lounge is against you. You're just blind to your own faults so stop trying to act like you have none and that you're better than everyone else.
Redstar said:
My arguments are sound, it's just bob and Shrike's rebuttals. They keep totally misinterpreting what I'm saying and attacking them.
The only sound argument you've given in all this has been the manga scans you just posted. But they're not even related to the original point anyway, that being game canon. Everything else has just shown an inability to read and admit your own faults.
Okay, so that failed. Whatever. I still want this to be my last post here.
How do you deal with the more mechanized parts of pokémon battling as in the games? Stats, levels, elemental strengths, etc.?
I don't. They don't exist in TFC, which inherits that much from the anime. Well okay elemental stuff does exist, like in the anime. I'm supposed to hate the anime why am I talking about it so much.
