For if you're going to keep on stating Yellow isn't canon (what people believe it isn't canon? I have never met any, clearly everyone else here thinks otherwise, and if they exist I don't... really want to meet them and go through this again only for them to continue ignoring valid points - it's a canon, maybe differing slightly to R/B but it is a perfectly legit canon in it's own, and part of the official games to boot),
I've started a thread with poll asking people to vote and explain why they think Yellow version is canon. You just said yourself it differs from RB, so I expect you'd vote for "alternate continuity". I did. The thread can be found here:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=5182588#post5182588
continuing to use breeding metaphors that don't apply to the Pokemon world and yet repeating them anyway like a broken record (if they don't apply, why use them?),
I was using breeding as a euphemism for domestication, which did apply. Wild Pokemon are effectively tamed, or domesticated, in much the same fashion real-life animals are.
go on tangents that had nothing to do with the original points long ago, claim a character is still not canon because he's in his 'own world' (that incidently is part of the official games - 3 of them, in fact,
I'm not arguing that the character himself isn't canon... What I'm arguing is that his role is non-canon. (It should be pointed out at this point, since people clearly don't get what I mean, is that when I say "non-canon" and so on I mean it didn't happen, not that it isn't a part of the world. Noah's flood is "non-canon" in much the same way... The story is real, but the event probably isn't) You can't possibly read a Pokemon's mind by looking at their footprints or even at their feet... It's far likely he just glanced at the Pokemon, noted they were happy, and made up a little story to go with it.
You keep saying I conveniently left things out... Well, you conveniently forgot to mention that the footprint man also says that wild Pokemon make fun of trained Pokemon for losing their wild instinct. This was my point all along: that not all Pokemon want to be trained, and the ones that are trained still may not want to be. Training requires the right temperament and mentality... Not all real-life animals can be domesticated.
We can't be blamed for reading and rebutting what you say. Heck, look at previous quotes of what you said, like in my previous post. If you truly didn't mean that, then you should have made yourself clear during the debate which you haven't yet done. Cheers for blaming that on providing points against what you said exactly, time and time again. =) Notice everytime I quote you, no? If I was twisting your words, show it. Or rather don't bother because i'm certainly not going to. You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it drink, as they say.
I meant everything I said, it was simply you and shrike that didn't know what I meant or else let your frustration cloud your interpretation.
At least you have finally shown us how the manga supposedly does gym badges - it took you long enough. Fact remains however that the manga =/= games, and the such applying to the games is complete speculation, not supported by game canon. You finally said it isn't - so it really doesn't count. It's an extension - made by completely different people. Like the anime! But you'll ignore this, no doubt.
I base this belief on the fact that the badge man in Cerulean city says "Pokemon up to level x will OBEY you with x badge"... Note he makes no mention of traded or otherwise. It's my belief that the trading factor was merely a gaming mechanic and that in-universe it can be inferred badges work similarly to in the manga. (The later generations may have retconned this, at least, since my research into GSC has shown some evolving concepts)
(like how Pokemon do fight in the wild as you stated they didn't, and how they have reasons to travle and battle with Trainers), despite claims certain characters - which you have never even encountered yourself! What basis then are you discounting him on? - don't count.
Again, I never said wild Pokemon don't fight... I said they don't battle like cocks in a pen for no reason.
Not until I was already writing my post, and not until after quite a few other posts had been made as well. Why didn't you just make a second post that I wouldn't have missed? You usually only need to edit your post if no one else has posted yet to avoid double posting... When you edit an old post, you should sort of expect people to miss it.
It kind of takes awhile to respond to each and every point and fix up the quote tags. I didn't expect people to post between my original post and the edit, and last I checked you weren't even on. Relax.
How is it your favorite generation if it's only your friends that have played the later games...?
I like the Pokemon, the characters, the designs, and the story. I don't need to play it for it to be my favorite.
And your point with all of this is...? It's the same thing I'm saying; animals, which are not on the level of a human in regards to intelligence and ability to think, don't have all three qualifiers. I am saying that Pokemon do, and so are on the level of a human. I said that in the post I brought all this up in, stop making me repeat it. Of course if I do manage to make this my last post here I won't anyway.
Then we agree. Misunderstanding fixed.
If you can bring up manga canon so often as support, I think I should be able to use anime canon. Otherwise, you drop the manga stuff.
The Special manga is based off the game's notes, the anime is not. There's a clear difference.
Tying into something else you're saying, the berserk gene is never mentioned anywhere. Therefore, by your own definition, it's not canon and so shouldn't be used in these arguments just like you don't want Yellow to be used. Characters, even memorable ones like the kid who likes shorts a little too much, also aren't canon I guess. The Sinnoh myths? Not mentioned anywhere else. Wow, guess you're right! They're not an integral part of the game so they're out of canon as well!
You're splitting hairs. The Mewtwo event is foreshadowed by the Mansion journals, the Sinnoh myths are established by NPC characters and researchers as well as being partly the focus of the entire story of the game, etc. There's a different between an in-game fixture, a feature, and a bonus. Lines of continuity are lax when going between the three.
Wrong on so many levels. Stem cells are not visible, they're just as microscopic as every other cell. What does a stem cell have to do with rewriting genetic code and genes anyway? Stem cells are just cells that lack any defined function and have the ability to adapt to a specific, undefined function.
So you're telling me if I had a vial of stem cell or any other genetic material I couldn't see it? That makes no sense.
This isn't Digimon, you know. They're clearly converted into energy, what else do you call all that red stuff the ball shoots out and goes inside the ball and everything? And in the anime they're not stored in the computer, they're stored alternatively at a Professor's laboratory (which is where Ash keeps his Pokemon) or at a Pokemon Center (which was shown in early episodes of the anime). The actual process of sending them through a computer is really just teleportation, and who knows how that works seeing as we don't have the technology. As for storage with the game, who knows? It's never clarified as to what's going on or how it works, so you can't really use it to prove anything.
They're converted into energy in the
anime. RBY at least has NPC characters
specifically state that Pokemon are converted into data.
The law of thermodynamics would only be violated if energy was created or destroyed. Since mass is already energy (I point again to e=mc^2, or energy equals mass times the speed of light squared), an equal reaction would be just fine. Just because we don't have the technology doesn't mean they couldn't. If anything, "digitizing" something would be even more of a violation of thermodynamics...
This post here proves the energy theory is scientifically impossible:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=4729342#post4729342
Then the berserk gene must also not be canon because it happens after you defeat the elite 4, which according to you seems to be the end of the game. Except with Pokemon games, there is no end. The only time when the elite 4 were the end of the game was in first gen, every generation after has included additional content after the elite 4 which extends the game and so means that the elite 4 are not the end. This includes G/S, which has the entire Kanto region (and the berserk gene) after the end of the game. The only end is when you've done everything in the game there is to do, including catching all Pokemon. I'd say that non-canon "bonus" endings are actually a lot rarer than canon ones.
As stated above, the Elite Four in generation 1 wasn't the end of the game... Mewtwo was sufficiently foreshadowed and hinted at in the main plot that it is the end of the game.
Newsflash: The whole damn lounge is against you. You're just blind to your own faults so stop trying to act like you have none and that you're better than everyone else.
I doubt the entire lounge is against me. I may be strong in my beliefs, but they're at least properly researched and logical whereas you and bob just keep attacking me.
Frankly, I think you're all being kind of thickheaded about this. I have absolutely no idea why any of you felt that the precise definition of a legendary Pokémon, or whether Growlithe are bred, or whether Redstar said they don't fight in the wild at all or just not for "no reason", or what counts as magic, or the exact definitions of sentience and sapience, are in any way relevant here. Half of this has been just a headache of splitting hairs and arguing over the semantics of completely irrelevant asides. I'm surprised you didn't start fiercely debating Star Trek after Klingons were brought up.
I don't know why Redstar didn't reply to my previous post, as its points still stand. I would also like to note that Red does have all three starters in G/S/C, since I saw that point raised.
I was unaware your apricorn post was directed at me.
Excuse me, I had GSC confused with Stadium.
Finally, I must point out that Pokémon game canon is a confusing, messy headache. Consider the fact we have three different equally valid scenarios of the same basic events in the same characters' lives in each generation. No, really consider it. Did Cyrus want to create a new world using Dialga, Palkia, or both while getting stopped by Giratina and sucked into the Distortion World? There is no actual canonical scenario here; these are all equally valid versions of the same story. And then there are the remakes on top of all that. Add in the fact that it's a video game - the player can choose what happens. You say Mewtwo can't be in Cerulean Cave in HG/SS because he was caught three years ago, but who says he was caught? You can play through the game just fine without ever catching Mewtwo, and there is absolutely nothing making it canon that Red ever did catch Mewtwo - the Berserk Gene in G/S/C could just as well be DNA traces left behind by Mewtwo after he left the cave on his own accord. One of the legendary beasts could have eluded Gold and escaped to Kanto. Or was it Kris who released the legendary beasts? It is impossible to sensibly argue any of the possible scenarios offered by the games to be the definitive canon. Pokémon has never been about the details of what happens in the games' plots, anyway.
Agreed. There's various levels of continuity which sometimes aren't compatible. I should point out that I never argued that my "badges as mind control" theory was anything more than fan theory... The only thing I did was that Pokemon are depicted as animals in the games, which they are.
Judging by this and the fact that I'm still seeing him on the recent viewers list of my profile (unless I happen to not get that many views a day), I take it someone's disappointed I like the company of women. If you know what I mean. And if you know exactly why this is relevant, you get a high five and an "awwright."
Oh yes. I totally project my frustration at not being able to bed you onto the Lounge through logical discussions that devolve into arguments because no one else knows how to read besides Dragonfree. Your insight into psychology is deeply intuitive and not at all pretentious and narcissistic.
