Question: Sexual threads

Dakota said:

I was thinking something along the lines of having a Mature subforum to GC. 18+ members would automatically have access to it. Based on behavior seen around the for, but also in GC, underage people can be granted viewing permission to this forum. Likewise, 18+ members who act too irresponsibly could have said privilege taken away. Yes, I know its work, especially on the GC mods who would be the ones debating who is eligible (Andy lets face it, you don't really do much as a GC mod, I'd know), but it's an idea.

Click to expand...

Who would decide who's "responsible" enough and who isn't? What defines someone as being "responsible" enough to view the section? Underage/overage members in general who act irresponsibly shouldn't be removed viewing permission to the forum, rather they should be infracted like any member would in any other section.

Personally, I like the idea of prefixes. That way, people who are offended by mature content are warned beforehand, and if they choose to enter the thread then that's their own choice. If they then get offended, (I don't mean to sound blunt), but too bad.

But ineivtably with whatever solution we come up with, there will always be discrepancies between what is considered appropriate and what isn't. It's natural. Not all of the staff have the same wavelength or view when it comes to explicit topics. Like issuing infractions, some of us are more lenient while others are harsher. It's important we do realise this.

I agree a line needs to be drawn somewhere though. There's a big difference between having healthy, open discussion about sex and inappropriate discussions about topics Adventure mentioned.

What about sexploitation? Luring? Sex coaching? Burning when you pee? I don't think the parent side of those young and teenage members would be too thrilled with this public discussion of what should be a privacy.

Aquacorde said:

I kind of like this idea, though I wouldn't go so far as to say NSFW. Maybe being tagged as [Mature] might be better and maybe keep a close eye on those threads? That would at least give a distinction.

Alternatively, pop another subforum in for "Mature Chat" that's not age-restricted but keeps all the topics that get uncomfortable for a lot of people in one place. I do think PC should in general be a PG-13 environment. But what I really think PC needs is solid rules that are unanimously enforced, forum-wide. Staff needs to be in consensus more than I've seen.

Click to expand...

curiousnathan said:

Who would decide who's "responsible" enough and who isn't? What defines someone as being "responsible" enough to view the section? Underage/overage members in general who act irresponsibly shouldn't be removed viewing permission to the forum, rather they should be infracted like any member would in any other section.

Personally, I like the idea of prefixes. That way, people who are offended by mature content are warned beforehand, and if they choose to enter the thread then that's their own choice. If they then get offended, (I don't mean to sound blunt), but too bad.

But ineivtably with whatever solution we come up with, there will always be discrepancies between what is considered appropriate and what isn't. It's natural. Not all of the staff have the same wavelength or view when it comes to explicit topics. Like issuing infractions, some of us are more lenient while others are harsher. It's important we do realise this.

I agree a line needs to be drawn somewhere though. There's a big difference between having healthy, open discussion about sex and inappropriate discussions about topics Adventure mentioned.

Click to expand...

Like I said, it was an idea. What I was thinking when I was writing that up was something like the senior tier in the server. Not the best of comparisons, for obvious reasons, but I do think it's viable. As for who, staff of course. I'm not saying it's the best idea, it's simply an idea. The prefix suggestion, as I already said, is something I like.

Xebelleon said:

What about sexploitation? Luring? Sex coaching? Burning when you pee? I don't think the parent side of those young and teenage members would be too thrilled with this public discussion of what should be a privacy.[/SPOILER]

Click to expand...

It's probably a bad thing that I don't know what the first three mean, but if it's like the fourth, that's a little too personal. Which goes against what I was thinking. Perhaps you can go a little general with the thread ideas (for the last one, anyway), but as it stands, no. Again, do remember the thread in question was asking for quantitative material, not qualitative.

Or maybe we're all overthinking things and the world wouldn't end if some teenagers saw sexual topics that they'd just look up elsewhere on the internet in a less controlled environment anyway.

As to where to draw the line on this "slippery slope" some people seem so worried about, I think I am capable of determining what's too far and what's not. I may be quite liberal as you can all see, but at the same time I'm not blind. I have the common sense not to let anything get too graphic or gross and I'm sure I'd have a whole forum full of watchful eyes ready to report something the second it did.

What it all essentially comes down to is this: I'm 23 years old and know that when I was a teenager I really didn't like the idea of older people talking down to me or deciding what I was or was not too old to discuss. I'm really not comfortable doing that to you guys either. I don't want to restrict the freedoms of the many to talk about whatever they like to save the delicate sensibilities of a few that don't even have to look if they don't want to. It's really not right.

Katholic Nun said:

Or maybe we're all overthinking things and the world wouldn't end if some teenagers saw sexual topics that they'd just look up elsewhere on the internet in a less controlled environment anyway.

As to where to draw the line on this "slippery slope" some people seem so worried about, I think I am capable of determining what's too far and what's not. I may be quite liberal as you can all see, but at the same time I'm not blind. I have the common sense not to let anything get too graphic or gross and I'm sure I'd have a whole forum full of watchful eyes ready to report something the second it did.

Click to expand...

I suppose that's the problem though. What might be a little crack in the dam to looks like a bomb just went off to others.

Dakota said:

I was thinking something along the lines of having a Mature subforum to GC. 18+ members would automatically have access to it. Based on behavior seen around the for, but also in GC, underage people can be granted viewing permission to this forum. Likewise, 18+ members who act too irresponsibly could have said privilege taken away. Yes, I know its work, especially on the GC mods who would be the ones debating who is eligible (Andy lets face it, you don't really do much as a GC mod, I'd know), but it's an idea.

Click to expand...

As I said previously, I just don't think a restricted-access forum is the way to go. Maybe keep it restricted to members-only, but that's as far as I'd go. Those places become terrible really quick. I'd much rather just have a subforum where all those topics can be collected and ignored if the person so chooses; where people can have their discussions and be moderated by considering a bit different criteria to the rest of the community. I don't like age-restriction and I don't think manually making exceptions like that would work very well; we have a significant amount of younger but pretty mature teens here. And idk I do appreciate the idea that sex could be an open topic and handled at least somewhat educationally- we do have a lot of people at the age of questioning and figuring things out. Could be helpful. The trick is to not let it get out of hand. And that's where drawing some clear lines needs to happen. If a member is causing trouble in this forum, they can be punished according to PC's infraction system rather than simply having privileges for that forum be taken away. There needs to be some rules in place for users' protection- not just in this hypothetical forum, but across the board and as it is now.

Ozzy was a little extreme in his examples imo but he does raise some valid concerns- some things really are inappropriate. We can't really revolutionize society through one community, nor all at once. We can become a little more lenient with our limitations and we can encourage mature discussions, but we have to have an enforced set of rules. We have to keep a careful eye on these things because wow people accidentally get themselves over their heads and don't know what to do or who to go to. We may say talk to a staff member, but that requires 1) the member to feel comfortable with that, 2) the staff member to not be dismissive and 3) the staff to be able to resolve the situation. If we're allowing mature content, I feel like staff really have to be more alert to potential discomfort; even if people feel confident sharing in a mature thread, that doesn't mean they are comfortable with potentially creepy responses. I posted in a thread once that was like "are you comfortable being nude in a locker room" and said yes, I'm fine with it. I got a response from someone that I am not friends with, nor had any interaction with, essentially that being nude in a locker room would be a dangerous thing because I'd get people staring at me and increase the chances of sexual violence/perversion. Like, he would definitely stare at me! And that's really damn creepy and inappropriate tbh. And that wasn't even a topic I would consider mature. I don't know why I didn't report that tbh. But I mean, if I didn't report it... what are the chances that someone else really creeped out by something would report it?

If we're going to allow discussions that have the potential to turn into something even more uncomfortable than that, someone really needs to be looking out for people. Sometimes you just don't know how to react. Sometimes you get shaken up and just leave. Sometimes you get talked at more on the subject when you'd like to drop it. And you think you can handle yourself, or you think the staff won't care, and you just try to deal with it. That shouldn't have to be the case.

Another thought: Some people are severely uncomfortable with the discussions in D&D, whether is be politics, sex, violence, mental illness, whatever. So they avoid that forum. However, GC is meant to be a chit-chat forum for everybody. It really hurts activity and a sense of community when people feel like they can't go in there without seeing things that make them uncomfortable. As we have many younger members and people who just don't like that stuff, we certainly have a good amount of people that really are uncomfortable with seeing so many sexual/mature topics, even the titles and the hovertext that includes the first few sentences.

If nothing else: There are RPs and fanfic with M/NC-17 ratings on here iirc. They are required to be labelled accordingly. I'd like to see the same in GC if mature threads will be around.

I'll just go straight to the point (like they say, the word "sex" is one that stands out most!): Sexual conversation has no place here, or at least not at the moment. Moderation has restricted us from talking about what we really want to say (for one: curse words) and how we really feel for a lack of a better phrase. Yeah I know, this is hard to relate to a Pokemon-discussion board.

There should be a sense of freedom of the individual to post what they want (however unfortunate, there are quite a few adults here!) as long as it's in the proper place.

I'm in favor of including a "NSFW" or "Mature" tag that allows for posting things of this nature. Maybe we're all familiar with Reddit's format, which seems to filter the "inappropriate" stuff at least on the surface. I'm not saying this place should become an over-moderated police state like Reddit is now, but their guidelines are very practical.

And it wouldn't take much maintenance to put this in place! Not to say that the really young ones belong here, even though it seems this website is harmless to a ten-year-old.

I like the idea of a tag/filter to hide mature content at will - at least it gives those uncomfortable with the topic at hand to ignore or avoid it completely. I think a subforum strictly for this sort of thing would turn pretty horrible after a while, so a tag or filter is the way to go for me. Maybe something that can be edited in the Options menu, or something age-specified. Sure, the topics don't blend well with the whole Pokemon theme, but in the first place, it's not all Pokemon. GC is what it says on the tin: general, so these topics are basically allowed there, though bound by rules. Maybe the mature tag that can be toggled to be hidden would work best in my opinion.

I think the Tumblr/DeviantArt idea is a good one. Have an option in the control panel to hide/show mature(ish?) content, and you could only look at the aforementioned posts if you were a registered member of TPC.

This site may be Pokémon-based, but we have to remember that this is a forum on the Internet, not your grandma's Bible study. As long as it's controlled (no pictures or highly detailed posts), than I really don't see what the big deal is. The thread that was locked up was simply a poll in my eyes, and it didn't ask for anything in detail. Kind of like a census.

A lot of us who have been here a long time joined initially for Pokemon when we were younger, and don't actually care about Pokemon all that much anymore. However, we already know most of the people here, and enjoy the community, so we would like to stay and continue to talk to them. Considering we're adults now, we talk about a large variety of things, some of which are very serious, and potentially not appropriate for kids. We have our own separate space to do that though, and it's not mixed in with the Pokemon part of the forum at all. I see no reason to disallow discussing a taboo subject. Allowing it hurts no one, banning it helps no one.

For the more sensitive people, requiring a mature tag sounds like a good idea. Doesn't inhibit discussion at all, and people know if they should avoid the topic. You could also enforce some sort of age restriction if you want. Maybe require the account's age to say they're 16+ to look at threads marked as mature.

Team Fail said:

Just like Tumblr and Twitter, that kind of content is disabled by default and must be enabled in settings. Could perhaps we have a filter so that if it's tagged [Mature], it hides it, and if you want to see that content, you must explicitly enable it in your settings? That way, people that don't want to see it don't have to.

Click to expand...

I'd rather it just be limited by age by default, and give the option to block it altogether if you want. Making it invisible by default could decrease participation quite a bit in the future, because new members may not realize it exists.

I suppose using the mature tag to filter instead of a subforum would be a good alternative. Nevertheless, access to mature threads shouldn't be a privilege that can be restricted or granted. It should be a choice we could default to be turned off at least for minors, and participating in these threads should assume a degree of responsibility and maturity.

Gym Leader Mark said:

This site may be Pokémon-based, but we have to remember that this is a forum on the Internet, not your grandma's Bible study.

Click to expand...

I don't know what's more hilarious: that you're comparing PC to a Bible study, that the Bible is actually full of the stuff people don't want on PC, or that my grandma's an atheist.

Gumball Watterson said:

I don't know what's more hilarious: that you're comparing PC to a Bible study, that the Bible is actually full of the stuff people don't want on PC, or that my grandma's an atheist.

Click to expand...

Well, regardless of my ability to make comparisons...

Usage of the Internet comes with the knowledge that not everything you see online is going to be rated G, and if parents start throwing fits, you can simply tell them that there's a magical thing called parental controls that can fix all of their problems.

If there does end up a forum, or at least tags that end up being toggle-able, I do like the idea of having them invisible as default. Maybe for under-16 rather than under-18, but I do think that is a good solution if mature threads are going to be pervasive. It wouldn't be restricted to 16+, just invisible unless manually toggled. For those that want it, that can exist. For those that don't, they don't have to deal with it at all.

Idgi. I really do not get it. Guys, it is 2014. We are at a turning point where old habits are actually dying and bringing new ways and experiences. If looking at it in a technical way, I don't see any rule on PokeCommunity that disallows mature content. We don't allow pornographic images or links. Ever. It has been this way since PC started. I get it how people can get offended by such material but tbh, why read it? You can just move on, and don't reply or do anything. Since PC is 13+, I'm pretty sure most of the younger users 13-17 are at that age where they "discover" themselves. It is natural tbh.

Anyways, I'm bad at debating but here were just my 2 cents on this matter.

On the topic of the mature threads, I agree with putting a [Mature] tag on PC. If anyone wants to see them, then so be it. If anyone doesn't then they can just disallow [Mature] threads. Simple as that. I don't really get how this is complicated tbh. But once again, these are just my 2 cents.

I brought this up in HQ recently. We need a filter. Tags stating topics of various maturity. Normal threads, age 15+ threads, and 18+ threads, and anyone with their age set below them cannot enter. If they set their age to something different and complain about the maturity of topics; then that's a redundant complaint as it's their own fault. If younger users wish to not enter topics that are on the mature side, at least this way they know before they do open the thread. Same goes for anyone who is intrigued by a thread title and doesn't want to be slapped in the face by some topic on sex, incest, violence, or anything equally as jagged. We need to be considerate of all audiences, without taking away the more "developed" kind of topics away from PC.

That's all I feel we should do.

abnegation said:

I brought this up in HQ recently. We need a filter. Tags stating topics of various maturity. Normal threads, age 15+ threads, and 18+ threads, and anyone with their age set below them cannot enter. If they set their age to something different and complain about the maturity of topics; then that's a redundant complaint as it's their own fault. If younger users wish to not enter topics that are on the mature side, at least this way they know before they do open the thread. Same goes for anyone who is intrigued by a thread title and doesn't want to be slapped in the face by some topic on sex, incest, violence, or anything equally as jagged. We need to be considerate of all audiences, without taking away the more "developed" kind of topics away from PC.

That's all I feel we should do.

Click to expand...

For GC and D&D or for all of PC? Is this problem even present in other parts of PC than the offtopic forums?

Adventure said:

For GC and D&D or for all of PC? Is this problem even present in other parts of PC than the offtopic forums?

Click to expand...

Currently it's only prevalent in our "General Chat" and "Discussions and Debates" sections, as you say. If I were to give a recommendation, it would be to limit mature threads to these sections alone. We don't have much need for discussions outside of them, and for sections that actually have mature themes (such as some of the creative writing, and art aspects of the forum) a prefix or forewarning has sufficed up until this point.

I would personally rather keep all Pokémon related sections appropriate for all audiences if at all possible. We have no need of Poképhelia topics and the likes, here. So I would suggest applying such a filter to GC, and D&D. From there, we can see how it goes. If there is ever a situation in which we need to consider a filter for other sections then we can discuss that if the time comes. I would wager that this would be unnecessary, however.

In my mind's eye, that ultimately results in a PokeCommunity full of 18 year olds.

So be it. At least this way people will have the knowledge of which topics are rated mature, and which are not. It doesn't really matter what people set their age to (COPPA aside), since it can be hidden anyway. Again, at least this way people have freedom of choice, and mature topics will be tagged appropriately.

abnegation said:

I brought this up in HQ recently. We need a filter. Tags stating topics of various maturity. Normal threads, age 15+ threads, and 18+ threads, and anyone with their age set below them cannot enter. If they set their age to something different and complain about the maturity of topics; then that's a redundant complaint as it's their own fault. If younger users wish to not enter topics that are on the mature side, at least this way they know before they do open the thread. Same goes for anyone who is intrigued by a thread title and doesn't want to be slapped in the face by some topic on sex, incest, violence, or anything equally as jagged. We need to be considerate of all audiences, without taking away the more "developed" kind of topics away from PC.

That's all I feel we should do.

Click to expand...

I think this is a good idea, but I really think that only a [Mature] tag is needed, for the same reason that Katholic Nun brought up:

Katholic Nun said:

What it all essentially comes down to is this: I'm 23 years old and know that when I was a teenager I really didn't like the idea of older people talking down to me or deciding what I was or was not too old to discuss. I'm really not comfortable doing that to you guys either. I don't want to restrict the freedoms of the many to talk about whatever they like to save the delicate sensibilities of a few that don't even have to look if they don't want to. It's really not right.

Click to expand...

I do not think that the forum should decide whether or not you are mature enough to view or post in, and that the members should decide whether or not they are mature or not to view or post in those sorts of topics. It could be hidden by default, however, it would achieve the same effect that Gav described, that the threads would only be visible to those who wanted to see it and it would be silly for anyone to complain if they themselves enabled it. I am going to quote Dipu and say that "age and maturity do not go hand in hand." I am 17, but I believe I am mature enough to post in any type of thread that's here on PC. Or at least view it, if I want to, and I know it's not a big deal to change my age to 18 I think it would be a little silly for me to have to do it. If this is really what it comes down to, if I see that a thread has a [Mature] tag next to it, I know what kind of topic I'm going looking at (although, about the thread in question, I don't see how anyone could click on the thread titled "Sex Drive" and not expect a "mature-rated" discussion, but whatever).