Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

Archer99 said:

I was beated by Shadow Ball Raikou and Icicle Crash Weavile... Holy ****.

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Weavile is really underrated, which is sad because it's really useful.

Archer99 said:

Weavile would be great if we didn't had a meta full of Stealth Rock. But it runs Ice Punch on the LO set.

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Icicle crash is less accurate but packs a bigger wallop and has a flinch chance. Fair trade.

Weavile would be even better if people could tear themselves away from their ever present Garchomps and Talonflames and EXPERIMENT WITH OTHER POKEMON!!!!

Yeah, I hate OU. There's no imagination.

Xairmo said:

So I wanna make the transition into VGC competitions, would anyone be willing to tutor me or just give me some pointers? Maybe help me analyze my OU team and see if it's viable for VGC doubles?

Edit: also just from what little experience I have on Battle Spot I feel like in VGC I'm gonna have to spam a lot of Smogon Banned stuff like Prankster, Double Team/Evasion hax, Mega Kanga/Gengar, etc. is it right to assume this?

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I've honestly never seen anyone using evasion exploits in doubles battle spot anyways - besides once back in B/W with a dang Chansey. Prankster isn't swagon banned so far as I know though, and Mega Kanga / Gengar are very present, but kinda run out of town quickly since they draw a lot of attention. They have to fit protect onto that moveset if they want to be a lasting threat in doubles imo.

Polar Spectrum said:

I've honestly never seen anyone using evasion exploits in doubles battle spot anyways - besides once back in B/W with a dang Chansey. Prankster isn't swagon banned so far as I know though, and Mega Kanga / Gengar are very present, but kinda run out of town quickly since they draw a lot of attention. They have to fit protect onto that moveset if they want to be a lasting threat in doubles imo.

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Whoops meant to say Prankster/Swagger combo. I know Prankster isn't banned but Swagger was right? The more I play battle spot - Singles or Doubles - the more inclined I feel to have Greninja again and now either Mega Kanga/Gengar (probably Kanga).

Archer99 said:

Sometimes you can't afford a miss, You lose a battle for this. And sometimes you NEED to have that perfect attack.

About OU, I have to say that I really disagree with you. It's up to you to make things work. Ok, Somethings are usless and outclassed but that's logic. It's not that hard to see what works and what doesn't work.

And... What do you mean with imagination?.

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Weavile is meant to function as a sweeper/revenge killer. It needs the power and if you've got a Victini as well (like I do) then the 90 accuracy doesn't matter.

I have quite a rant about OU and the tier system in general so get ready.

First, OU. Stands for "Over Used" which kinda gives a hint about the lack of diversity. From what I've seen, about 82% of everyone who plays in this tier has at least one Pokemon in common with any other given player. For a more firsthand analysis - literally every OU player I've faced ALWAYS, without fail, has had at least one of the following: Talonflame, Garchomp, Sableye, Blaziken, Mawile and/or Charizard,
There is so little experimentation in this tier; it's all so standard and generic. I hate generic stuff with an absolute PASSION. The fact that almost everyone leans on one of the afore-mentioned Pokemon is almost saddening.
To an extent, I think Smogon's idea in naming the tier "overused" was a hint that too many people blatantly lean on these select few, and should explore other possibilities rather than just going with the masses. Based this idea of nonconformity I play exclusively in UU or below nowadays, and that's when I use the tier system at all.

Second, I just have an issue with the tier system itself, or at least what fans have taken it to mean. The crux of the matter is what the tiers are based off, which is frequency of use of any given Pokemon - overused, underused, rarely used and never used. Contrary to popular belief, these tiers do not separate Pokemon based on how powerful they are.
For example, a common misconception is that UU pokemon are in said tier because they aren't good enough to be used in OU. I think this is completely wrong - UU Pokemon are in such a tier because OU players can't pry themselves away from their steroid-jacked dragons and burning chickens; they don't even make an EFFORT to use the Pokemon in UU and below.
It could be argued that UU and below Pokemon are in fact "underused" because they aren't good enough to be used frequently or their stats aren't high enough. Again, wrong. It comes back to the narrow-mindedness of many OU players. Granted, some Pokemon ARE very bad stat-wise (like Dunsparce) and so have a reason for not being used a whole lot, but really every single Pokemon has something that makes it usable. To reiterate, the Pokemon aren't to blame, the people are. Why? For dismissing them so casually without even TRYING them.

In the interests of civility, I'm not attacking anyone by saying this stuff, nor am I trolling, nor generally being a twat. I simply wish to express my frustration at the narrow-mindedness that is, to be honest, far to common in the online battling community as a whole.

Archer99 said:

Actually, That's not that logic. Some pokes from BL, UU, Damm even RU! are used in OU. If something is from a tier under OU, It just takes a bit of time and a small research on Internet. To see why it's on another tier or what outclasses it on another tier. It's logic. Why I'm going to use something that sucks against what everybody is running?, You need a Check/Counter for certain pokes.

Of course, OU haves broken stuff running wild (I'm looking to you, MegaMeta, Mega Sableye...) But, It's just a matter of time until they're gone for good if you ask me.

Excuse me???. So, Everybody who plays on OU sucks at pokemon and runs the same teams for you?, That's not even logic. It's stupid as can be if you ask me. OU isn't ruled by Dragons on the actual meta, If you didn't knew about it.

I played UU the whole afternoon today, And I saw pretty generic teams too. It's not a tier thing, It's how things work. You can be creative as you want, But sooner or later you notice that you can't be THAT creative



Um, That's wrong. It's not about the BST sometimes. Some pokes are just outclassed by others with a better ability, Or a better BST spread.

PS: Mawile and Blaziken are banned from OU.

PSS:

Miss on Lando-T when you predicted well says hi.

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I don't think you really read my post.

First, "narrow-minded" doesn't mean the same thing as "sucks". It simply means that the person in question will only use a very small selection of Pokèmon and disregard everything else without even trying them out.

Second,"logic" was never part of my argument so stop bringing it up.

Third, when influenced by Victory Star (remember Victini?) Icicle Crash has perfect accuracy, so missing's not a problem.

Khaotic Kebab said:

Third, when influenced by Victory Star (remember Victini?) Icicle Crash has perfect accuracy, so missing's not a problem.

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Victory Star only works for Victini itself and any allies it has out in doubles/triples, not for the entire team.

PlatinumDude said:

Victory Star only works for Victini itself and any allies it has out in doubles/triples, not for the entire team.

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At what point did I say that Victory Star boosts the whole team? That's right. I didn't.

Archer99 said:

I read your post, And I say my thoughts.

It's pretty much the same thing, With different words. And yes, There's that kind of people. But most of them are noobs and they can make things work.

Why should I???. There's nothing wrong with it.

And, Plat answered already to that.

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Look, I'm not asking you to agree with my viewpoint (nobody else does, let alone understand it), but I am asking you to respect it. If I've agitated you I apologise, but give my opinions some thought.

Khaotic Kebab said:

At what point did I say that Victory Star boosts the whole team? That's right. I didn't.

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I misread that. And there's no need to point that out rudely. >_>

Archer99 said:

I understand, But if logic is not a part of your argument. This is what happens.

Of course, All of us have different points of view. And different ways to say things.

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At the risk of sparking the argument again..... arguments themselves are logic vs logic battles. You can't have an argument and not back it up with logic, but I digress.

srinator said:

Mfw I see x scissor excadrill, can we ban stupid ass set shits pls ;/

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It could be worse. It could've been Sap Sipper Azu.

Khaotic Kebab said:

At what point did I say that Victory Star boosts the whole team? That's right. I didn't.

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I think that the issue here is that you're talking about doubles, and Archer/Platinum/etc are talking about singles. Victory Star doesn't help anyone besides Victini in singles.


....But guys, let's not get into another "discussion" about Smogon and/or its tier system. We've been through this like 2 or 3 times in this thread alone already, and it never does anything constructive. If you have a beef with Smogon and/or the tier system, I think that the more appropriate thread to post in would be this one here called "Flaws in the Metagame".

Anyway, when is Rock Head Tyrantrum gonna be usable on Showdown? It is legal now and I reeeeeeeeeally wanna use one.

holy shit rock head tyrantrum!!

bye-bye scarf lando, hello scarf tyrantrum

#hyped

srsly tho stab head smash!! asdfghjkklqwertyuiop

Zekrom said:

It could be worse. It could've been Sap Sipper Azu.


I think that the issue here is that you're talking about doubles, and Archer/Platinum/etc are talking about singles. Victory Star doesn't help anyone besides Victini in singles.


....But guys, let's not get into another "discussion" about Smogon and/or its tier system. We've been through this like 2 or 3 times in this thread alone already, and it never does anything constructive. If you have a beef with Smogon and/or the tier system, I think that the more appropriate thread to post in would be this one here called "Flaws in the Metagame".

Anyway, when is Rock Head Tyrantrum gonna be usable on Showdown? It is legal now and I reeeeeeeeeally wanna use one.

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The Hidden/Dream World Ability Tyrunt will be distributed to the participants of the Battle of Hoenn competition on January 30.

Khaotic Kebab said:

Look, I'm not asking you to agree with my viewpoint (nobody else does, let alone understand it), but I am asking you to respect it. If I've agitated you I apologise, but give my opinions some thought.

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I agree with some of what you're saying, but ferrealz I've exhausted this 'discussion' here like six days a week for almost a year now lol. Let's just PM each other about our loathing for tears and swagon and agree in secret, so this thread can just be mutual community grounds. Because this place is minimum 90% swagon supporters anyways, and you'll just get ridiculed for having different viewpoints than everyone else.



Rock Head Tyrantrum; please. Strong Jaw is neat, buuut... much better for Mega Sharpedo. It doesn't even fully compensate for the lack of stab on all those biting moves Tyrantrum has access to. Crunch on M Sharpedo thoooo - wrecks.

Don't laugh at me, but I'm kind of interested in a snow warning Aurorus too hahah. Just so I can have something that induces Hail, without using an Abomasnow. I don't like its face. Even though as bad as grass / ice is, it's better than rock / ice.

Honestly I'm a bigger fan of Banded Tyrantrum. STAB Head Smash coming off of that base 121 attack will definitely punch some holes in stuff. I'm not too excited to use a Scarf set because that base 71 speed in OU is sort of underwhelming, even with the boost.

Polar Spectrum said:

I agree with some of what you're saying, but ferrealz I've exhausted this 'discussion' here like six days a week for almost a year now lol. Let's just PM each other about our loathing for tears and swagon and agree in secret, so this thread can just be mutual community grounds. Because this place is minimum 90% swagon supporters anyways, and you'll just get ridiculed for having different viewpoints than everyone else.



Rock Head Tyrantrum; please. Strong Jaw is neat, buuut... much better for Mega Sharpedo. It doesn't even fully compensate for the lack of stab on all those biting moves Tyrantrum has access to. Crunch on M Sharpedo thoooo - wrecks.

Don't laugh at me, but I'm kind of interested in a snow warning Aurorus too hahah. Just so I can have something that induces Hail, without using an Abomasnow. I don't like its face. Even though as bad as grass / ice is, it's better than rock / ice.

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Fair enough.

Rock Head Tyrantrum sounds OP, especially if you scarf it, but I'm looking forward to Snow Warning Aurorus too. Ice is my favourite type and Aurorus itself is one of my favourite Pokèmon ever! Dunno if I wanna give up Refrigerate Hyper Voice though....

King Syn said:

Honestly I'm a bigger fan of Banded Tyrantrum. STAB Head Smash coming off of that base 121 attack will definitely punch some holes in stuff. I'm not too excited to use a Scarf set because that base 71 speed in OU is sort of underwhelming, even with the boost.

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In OU yeah. Scarf set is probably nicer in UU where the overall speed of things is lower.

banded or scarfed it's still scared of any burn or paralysis. Which yeah, base 71 even with a scarf It has to accept as a threat from things. still, that 121 base Attack Stab on a 150 base move. Scary. Good thing it still has only 80 accuracy.

Excadril 4x resisting rock along with conkeldurr and Bisharp still being a thing and resisting though - it won't be OP. Just a thing now

There's still plenty of use for a super powerful rock type move in all tiers, though, because of the popularity of birds and fire types, Kyurem-B and Weavile, Volcarona, u no...

Tyrantrum will never be Tyranitar but he can do good work.