Poke-Fallacies

Endless said:

Yeah, Gyarados being partially flying-type doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It could learn a few flying moves, yes, but I suppose that's not exactly a good reason for them to categorize it as such. If it were something along the lines of dragon instead, in my opinion, it would've been a lot better. Though, seeing such a Pokémon evolve from something like Magicarp might run value of that type-group in some people's eyes, but I'm sure those would have been only the minority; not everybody actually cares for things like this, you know?

Making it part dark also would've made sense, considering how scary and vicious it looks, but they've fixed that up with its mega-evolution form.

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My guess is that they gave it the flying type as a reference to the story of the Karp jumping (or something worded as flying) over the waterfall (hence Gyaradosite's location actually...), which even Magikarp references in it's dex entries.

Darmanitan and V-Create. Let's do some checking:

- Has some form of V shaped thing somewhere: check. Its eyebrows. As unconventional as it sounds, it's still a V!
- Is Fire-type: check.
- Has a high Attack stat: check. While this doesn't mean much, it'd make more sense to me if they gave V-Create to something with that.

Now, I get that it's an event move, but it basically ticks the proper boxes.

Tinfoil hat said:

Okay gyarados's move set (and moves its capable of learning) is weird given its type, but you know what i find weird about gyarados? The fact that its also a flying type! How does that work? How does it avoid ground attacks, does it float 5 feet off the ground, is it capable of any interpretation of flight, or better yet does it give any implication of being a flying type? I will never know.

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I hadn't thought of Rayquaza getting sky attack, then again I'm not sure if I eve knew it didn't get it. : , seems like it would've hahah. Does it get Hurricane or something at least?

Marisa said:

Darmanitan and V-Create. Let's do some checking:

- Has some form of V shaped thing somewhere: check. Its eyebrows. As unconventional as it sounds, it's still a V!
- Is Fire-type: check.
- Has a high Attack stat: check. While this doesn't mean much, it'd make more sense to me if they gave V-Create to something with that.

Now, I get that it's an event move, but it basically ticks the proper boxes.

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This one never occurred to me either, even though it's an event legend's signature, yeah it would make a lot of sense.


Anyone wanna explain how Dugtrio sucker punches? By LEVEL UP nonetheless. Not even an egg move. While we're on sucker punch, Gastly how are you doing that? Shuppet? Bonsly?! Spiritomb? Arbok??? Misdreavus??? And then it can be tutored onto friggn' ELECTRODE. As well as huntail.... How. How do things without arms sucker punch.

Polar Spectrum said:

I hadn't thought of Rayquaza getting sky attack, then again I'm not sure if I eve knew it didn't get it. : , seems like it would've hahah. Does it get Hurricane or something at least?



This one never occurred to me either, even though it's an event legend's signature, yeah it would make a lot of sense.


Anyone wanna explain how Dugtrio sucker punches? By LEVEL UP nonetheless. Not even an egg move. While we're on sucker punch, Gastly how are you doing that? Shuppet? Bonsly?! Spiritomb? Arbok??? Misdreavus??? And then it can be tutored onto friggn' ELECTRODE. As well as huntail.... How. How do things without arms sucker punch.

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Looking at Sucker Punch's name in Japanese one sees that it isn't actually a punch move as it's called Surprise attack.
Oh I also found this in Bulba which explains it better: "Despite its name, Sucker Punch is not a punching move. The term sucker punch refers to an unexpected or cheap shot at an opponent, akin to its Japanese name, which translates to surprise attack. Thus, many Pokémon that do not possess arms can learn this move, and its base power is not increased by Iron Fist. "

One thing I thought of that no one else pointed out yet is Emboar's speed...
Accorinding to it's pokedex entries, it can use attacks at blinding speed,
& yet, it's one of the SLOWER pokemon!
What is up with these hypocritital pokedex entires?!?

EDITED IN:

"It has mastered fast and powerful fighting moves. It grows a beard of fire."
This is the pokedex entry I speak of...
If not a higher speed stat, then it should at LEAST have Mach Punch...
But it doesn't learn that at all!

Stoney the Mewtwo said:

One thing I thought of that no one else pointed out yet is Emboar's speed...
Accorinding to it's pokedex entries, it can use attacks at blinding speed,
& yet, it's one of the SLOWER pokemon!
What is up with these hypocritital pokedex entires?!?

EDITED IN:

"It has mastered fast and powerful fighting moves. It grows a beard of fire."
This is the pokedex entry I speak of...
If not a higher speed stat, then it should at LEAST have Mach Punch...
But it doesn't learn that at all!

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I wonder about that one too. Originally I thought it was talking about Flame Charge but that's a fire move. Also a similar issue shows up in Swampert's dex entry which calls it as fast as a ski boat yet the Pokemon is quite slow...but it's getting Swift Swim for it's Mega so hopefully that'll fix that. Hopefully they'll fix that fallacy by giving Emboar Speed Boost or something for it's Mega Ability.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I wonder about that one too. Originally I thought it was talking about Flame Charge but that's a fire move. Also a similar issue shows up in Swampert's dex entry which calls it as fast as a ski boat yet the Pokemon is quite slow...but it's getting Swift Swim for it's Mega so hopefully that'll fix that. Hopefully they'll fix that fallacy by giving Emboar Speed Boost or something for it's Mega Ability.

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To go with the Pokedex entry, I see Mega Emboar having a Fighting-type variant of Gale Wings...
(Maybe it'd be called Swift Fist?)

I honestly don't think they give much thought into PokéDex entries, really; those are just some fillers to make the device seem more systematic. How many of us actually take our time to read them? Out of about ten people or so, I'd say about four would, which isn't exactly that much. Those who do read don't usually pay much attention to other things, such as Emboar attacking at blinding speed (while it isn't necessarily the case). If such things were more relevant to players, they would've taken them much, much more seriously.

As for Emboar having fighting-type variant of Gale Wings, that would be pretty cool, actually! Though, if they do go towards this route, they'd probably have to give this ability to certain other Pokémon as well, in my opinion, so that it doesn't remain exclusive to only one (which isn't bad, but it usually doesn't seem right to make things limited only to a certain Pokémon unless they're legendaries).

Endless said:

Yeah, Gyarados being partially flying-type doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It could learn a few flying moves, yes, but I suppose that's not exactly a good reason for them to categorize it as such. If it were something along the lines of dragon instead, in my opinion, it would've been a lot better.

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Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

Pingouin7 said:

Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

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Oh, right, haha. They could've had this change in generation two rather than one, though; it would've been able to co-exist with Kingdra pretty easily, and maybe also go head-to-head in terms of popularity.

Pingouin7 said:

Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

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Then again, Gen 1 was already pretty broken, so yeah.

Speaking of which, the Dragonite family always confused me. You start off with a little reptile-snake thing, that turns into a fabulous reptile-snake thing, and then BOOM. You got yourself a dragon. Doesn't even have the same colors, same eyes, same nothing. It looks NOTHING like it's prevolutions. What the heck.

Pingouin7 said:

Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

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It could have been a pure Water-type. Why is this thing part Flying-type anyway?

Why do all fossil Pokémon have to be part Rock-type? The Anorith and Kabuto lines could have been Water/Bug, Lileep and Cradily could have been Water/Grass, Aerodactyl could've been Dragon/Flying, etc.

Another thing that kind of bothers me is that there are so many Fighting-type Pokémon that are compatible breeding partners with Mienfoo, yet only four of them get Drain Punch as an egg move.

Here's some other questions I have:

Why is Lucario Fighting/Steel instead of Fighting/Psychic?

Why are the Goomy line Dragon-types?

GoldfishHorde said:

Then again, Gen 1 was already pretty broken, so yeah.

Speaking of which, the Dragonite family always confused me. You start off with a little reptile-snake thing, that turns into a fabulous reptile-snake thing, and then BOOM. You got yourself a dragon. Doesn't even have the same colors, same eyes, same nothing. It looks NOTHING like it's prevolutions. What the heck.

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Perhaps it's metamorphosis? Drastic change occurs during this process, usually, so if you take that into account, it should all be explainable.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Looking at Sucker Punch's name in Japanese one sees that it isn't actually a punch move as it's called Surprise attack.
Oh I also found this in Bulba which explains it better: "Despite its name, Sucker Punch is not a punching move. The term sucker punch refers to an unexpected or cheap shot at an opponent, akin to its Japanese name, which translates to surprise attack. Thus, many Pokémon that do not possess arms can learn this move, and its base power is not increased by Iron Fist. "

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Ooo, why thank you. That was very enlightening, and makes a lotta sense. The Japanese names for moves especially shed some light on a bunch. I suppose the no bonus from Iron Fist should've given it away.

Stoney the Mewtwo said:

One thing I thought of that no one else pointed out yet is Emboar's speed...
Accorinding to it's pokedex entries, it can use attacks at blinding speed,
& yet, it's one of the SLOWER pokemon!
What is up with these hypocritital pokedex entires?!?

EDITED IN:

"It has mastered fast and powerful fighting moves. It grows a beard of fire."
This is the pokedex entry I speak of...
If not a higher speed stat, then it should at LEAST have Mach Punch...
But it doesn't learn that at all!

Click to expand...

A lot of pokemon's speed stats and descriptions don't match up. Pidgeot, is said to be able to fly at MACH speeds. Mach speeds man. But it's outsped, by galvantula. Galvantula. A tarantula, is faster than a bird that flies at mach speeds. Idunno man, Idunnoooooo lol

Endless said:

As for Emboar having fighting-type variant of Gale Wings, that would be pretty cool, actually! Though, if they do go towards this route, they'd probably have to give this ability to certain other Pokémon as well, in my opinion, so that it doesn't remain exclusive to only one (which isn't bad, but it usually doesn't seem right to make things limited only to a certain Pokémon unless they're legendaries).

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Well, they actually keep a LOT of abilities exclusive to non legendary pokemon. Even the one we're comparing it to, gale wings - is only on Talonflame sadly. Which sucks, because all anyone ever does with it is brave bird roost and occasionally acrobatics. If it were on more pokemon, there might be more ways to use Gale Wings than just spamming brave bird. Things like Grass Pelt, Fur Coat, Aroma Veil, all should be spread around too though imo.

Pingouin7 said:

Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

Click to expand...

It would've still been weak to dragon, actuallehhhhh

Stoney the Mewtwo said:

One thing I thought of that no one else pointed out yet is Emboar's speed...
Accorinding to it's pokedex entries, it can use attacks at blinding speed,
& yet, it's one of the SLOWER pokemon!
What is up with these hypocritital pokedex entires?!?

EDITED IN:

"It has mastered fast and powerful fighting moves. It grows a beard of fire."
This is the pokedex entry I speak of...
If not a higher speed stat, then it should at LEAST have Mach Punch...
But it doesn't learn that at all!

Click to expand...

If you think THAT'S messed up, just look at Escavalier's Pokédex entry in Black:
"They fly around at high speed, striking with their pointed spears. Even when in trouble, they face opponents bravely."
And yet, it has 20 base Speed. One of the slowest Pokémon of all time. Yeah, seems about legit.

Polar Spectrum said:

Well, they actually keep a LOT of abilities exclusive to non legendary pokemon. Even the one we're comparing it to, gale wings - is only on Talonflame sadly. Which sucks, because all anyone ever does with it is brave bird roost and occasionally acrobatics. If it were on more pokemon, there might be more ways to use Gale Wings than just spamming brave bird. Things like Grass Pelt, Fur Coat, Aroma Veil, all should be spread around too though imo.

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I haven't noticed that at all, haha. You're right! Though, it'd be really nice to see Gale Wings make it onto other bird Pokémon, as they could definitely benefit from it. If it were available for something like Skarmory, maybe people would start using it more offensively rather than defensive, and expand its horizons. Its defenses are great, but its Attack stat is good, too, but not many of us seem to utilize this Pokémon for it, usually; most of the time, we find ourselves using it to set up entry hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes. It's fantastic at them, I'll admit, but it'd be awesome if, in general, there were more options than just that.

Polar Spectrum said:

It would've still been weak to dragon, actuallehhhhh

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I rest my case.

Pingouin7 said:

Spoiler:

I rest my case.

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xD I forgot about that, good point. For some reason I thought outrage was gen 1.


This isn't the most obvious; but scyther can't learn bug bite by breeding or level up. :1 it's gig technician too. Ouch.

Pingouin7 said:

Gyarados being Water/Dragon would mean it would have had no weaknesses in Gen. 1, though. Gotta keep that in mind.

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Now I wonder if that's the reason why, then why did they go ahead and make a Pokemon without weaknesses two gens later, and then another one the next, and another one (but this one was thanks to it's ability) the following, until this current Generation nerfed the previous mentioned too. A bit ironic now that Gyarados' Mega got hurt by the nerf too...and would've been nerfed it were a Water/Dragon too xD.