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6th Gen Mega Kangaskhan WAY TOO OVERPOWERED

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  • Burning doesn't seem to do much in my experience. I find paralysis is better. A burned Kangaskhan is still incredibly powerful after it has powered up once or twice. Maybe if you have a highly defensive team the burn is more effective.



    Kangaskhan would use Earthquake to avoid this.

    Yeah. I haven't really had any problems with mega kangaskhan but I furfrou is the only tactical stalker I use so I posted it... but I really have taken out m kanga with a good bit of different pokemon. Any fast or bulky fighting type pretty much takes him.
     

    §1

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    Mega Kahn has Parental Bond so your ghosts are safe.
    not on switch-in it doesn't. the evolution doesn't occur until after the switch; forcing me to let a pokemon take the fall before i can switch to a ghost. (though, this might only be in pokemonshowdown)
     
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    DynamicD

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    I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.
     
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    I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.

    For me it depends. I forfeit if there's no chance I can win. But if I think I can take on an Uber, I go for it until all hope is lost. When you pull it off, it makes for a good battle video. Granted, a lot of people with all uber teams tend to shut off the game if you start to win.
     

    KittenKoder

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  • I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.

    Hate to break it to you, but Battle Spot does not follow Smogon rules, get use to it or go to Smogon for battles instead.

    The only thing I hate about Kangas, it's just too popular, even now with all the counters for it people have. It's so boring to battle now I often play around with it to see what other random things will mess it up. My favorite is still hypnotize and gastro acid it, then just wail on it while the trainer tries too figure out what just happened.
     
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    Hate to break it to you, but Battle Spot does not follow Smogon rules, get use to it or go to Smogon for battles instead.

    The only thing I hate about Kangas, it's just too popular, even now with all the counters for it people have. It's so boring to battle now I often play around with it to see what other random things will mess it up. My favorite is still hypnotize and gastro acid it, then just wail on it while the trainer tries too figure out what just happened.

    Yeah, but like 70% of the people who use Battle Spot have enough integrity not to stack their teams with ubers. Likewise, most passerbyers and pretty much all of my friends have fair teams. All this usage of Mega Kangaskhan (especially among friends) I think will die down now that he's been smogonized as uber.
     

    KittenKoder

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  • Yeah, but like 70% of the people who use Battle Spot have enough integrity not to stack their teams with ubers. Likewise, most passerbyers and pretty much all of my friends have fair teams. All this usage of Mega Kangaskhan (especially among friends) I think will die down now that he's been smogonized as uber.

    Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

    1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
    2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
    3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
    4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.
     
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    Ive used my Lucario Close Combat on it with pretty decent success. If that doesnt take it out entirely I go for a sucker punch/night slash w/ super luck absol
     
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    Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

    1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
    2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
    3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
    4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.

    I don't see how this relates though. The average semi-competitive battler knows how overpowered Kangaskhan is and thusly avoids using it (just as some people avoid using mewtwo and other pokemon like that). In addition, contrary to your point 4, enough people DON'T use Kangaskhan so that Battle Spot fights can still be good.

    There are always going to be people obsessed with winning enough that their entire team will be stacked with Ubers... but that's just life. Still, there are enough people not doing that so that you can still have strategical fun even if you haven't built a team around countering specific ones.

    I find that Battle Spot battling can be enjoyable for anyone. As far as passerbyers and friends, just keep your friends with reasonably fair teams and dump the rest (unless you're looking for high-tier/OPed battles). lol
     
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    Mega Kangaskhan is now banned from OU in showdown. Not surprised to say the very least.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

    this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore, they just plug stats into a calculator and go "Oh, too powerful! ban!" it's ridiculous. I am waiting to actually fight some Mega kangaskhans to actually learn from the battles and learn how to counter, not just ban because it's too hard to beat. It seems (going by the moves the smogon link was mentioning) many of the ghost pokemon right off the bat would be immune to the fighting and normal type moves put on the Kangaskhan and the dark type would be an obvious problem for the ghost type, unless you throw in Spiritomb who is only weak to fairy moves. I mean, I'm hardly saying Spiritomb is the counter to mega kangaskhan, but my point is that counters should be tried and figured out rather than just basing everything on the stats and then dictating what should and shouldn't be used. I could get a fantastic winning streak if I dictated what pokemon could and couldn't be used and what moves they were and weren't allowed to be used, but I would rather lose 100 battles, learn from them and then win just a single battle based on what I learned and eventually came up with a strategy to beat them rather than tie their hands and achieve a hallow, meaningless victory because I can't handle this pokemon, that pokemon, this move set, that moveset and I just have to keep banning pokemon and moves until I can finally win. If a sentret with double team can wipe out my whole team, I would say that move isn't flawed, I would say my strategy is flawed.

    Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

    1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
    2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
    3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
    4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.

    #2 and #4 especially! Let's be best friends! :D
     
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    this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore

    I think what you're having difficulty looking at is the perspective of what it means when a SINGLE pokemon requires specific counters to deal with. When you have to use obscure counters to deal with a single pokemon, it changes the face of the game altogether. Devising counters is something that should be done DURING the match.

    A well-balanced team should be able to stand a chance against another team provided the correct decisions are made.

    Uber/Over-powered pokemon require you to create specific counters for it individually (and counters that may be useless against most else at that). That is why it is too powerful to be allowed in standard play (for smogon).

    Outside of smogon, it creates situations where people must forfeit when they see the uber that they are not prepared for (you can't possibly prepare for every uber). If you create a team that can stand up to Kangakshan (without using an uber yourself) then you don't stand a chance against, say, Mewtwo or Kyogre. And god forbid your opponent's team is all ubers. lol

    Inclusion of Ubers makes battles over before they begin, even for balanced teams. You either have the counter or you don't. This is why smogon has that system. It's not about figuring out counters, because creating counters for particular ubers would require knowing their team before the battle begins.

    Getting the ubers out of standard play allows well-balanced teams to have good fights against each other. The strategical aspect then occurs IN the battle itself, rather than BEFORE the battle begins (in which case it's incredibly luck-based).

    That being said, the best way to prepare for ALL ubers is to use unreliable gimmicks.
     
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    Nah

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    this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore, they just plug stats into a calculator and go "Oh, too powerful! ban!" it's ridiculous. I am waiting to actually fight some Mega kangaskhans to actually learn from the battles and learn how to counter, not just ban because it's too hard to beat. It seems (going by the moves the smogon link was mentioning) many of the ghost pokemon right off the bat would be immune to the fighting and normal type moves put on the Kangaskhan and the dark type would be an obvious problem for the ghost type, unless you throw in Spiritomb who is only weak to fairy moves. I mean, I'm hardly saying Spiritomb is the counter to mega kangaskhan, but my point is that counters should be tried and figured out rather than just basing everything on the stats and then dictating what should and shouldn't be used. I could get a fantastic winning streak if I dictated what pokemon could and couldn't be used and what moves they were and weren't allowed to be used, but I would rather lose 100 battles, learn from them and then win just a single battle based on what I learned and eventually came up with a strategy to beat them rather than tie their hands and achieve a hallow, meaningless victory because I can't handle this pokemon, that pokemon, this move set, that moveset and I just have to keep banning pokemon and moves until I can finally win. If a sentret with double team can wipe out my whole team, I would say that move isn't flawed, I would say my strategy is flawed.

    Mega Khan is banned (I've never liked the term "banned" in regards to a Pokemon; its just been moved to Ubers is all) because it takes almost no skill to use one in OU. People DO look for counters (I gave one in an earlier post), but there's only a few of them in OU. Ubers is an environment where things are much more even in regards to Mega Kangaskhan; it can't sweep everything in sight in Ubers. It's not like everything is banned anyway.

    As for your insistance that evasion moves and abilities shouldn't be banned: no one likes losing because of pure luck, which is what evasion moves are. Not being able to be hit isn't skillful or clever, its just annoying.

    Edit: Greninja'd. Cassie basically said what I said, but a bit better. XD
     
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    Mega Khan is banned (I've never liked the term "banned" in regards to a Pokemon; its just been moved to Ubers is all) because it takes almost no skill to use one in OU. People DO look for counters (I gave one in an earlier post), but there's only a few of them in OU. Ubers is an environment where things are much more even in regards to Mega Kangaskhan; it can't sweep everything in sight in Ubers. It's not like everything is banned anyway.

    As for your insistance that evasion moves and abilities shouldn't be banned: no one likes losing because of pure luck, which is what evasion moves are. Not being able to be hit isn't skillful or clever, its just annoying.

    Edit: Greninja'd. Cassie basically said what I said, but a bit better. XD

    And that just illustrated one of my points, people jsut go "Oh, that move is pure luck, I won't even try to figure out a way around it" when there's, what, 15 - 20 moves that will counter it? How is evasion luck based when all it takes to negate it is a large number of other moves? Heck, increasing your own accuracy helps negate the opponent raising of evasion. It's easy to blame it on luck, but when you can counter their move obviously it's not luck, it's called being prepared. Seriously, when a Pidgeot can negate double team (and yes, as of Gen 6 Keen eye also ignores boosts to evasion) how exactly can you say double team is luck based when there's SO many counters? Even if you didn't have any of the moves to counter, there's almost 30 pokemon that jsut by being in battle negate double team by having the Keen Eye ability. Again I say, when you can't counter a move that is SO easily countered it's really the strategy you're using that's to blame, not the move.

    I think what you're having difficulty looking at is the perspective of what it means when a SINGLE pokemon requires specific counters to deal with. When you have to use obscure counters to deal with a single pokemon, it changes the face of the game altogether. Devising counters is something that should be done DURING the match.

    A well-balanced team should be able to stand a chance against another team provided the correct decisions are made.

    Uber/Over-powered pokemon require you to create specific counters for it individually (and counters that may be useless against most else at that). That is why it is too powerful to be allowed in standard play (for smogon).

    Outside of smogon, it creates situations where people must forfeit when they see the uber that they are not prepared for (you can't possibly prepare for every uber). If you create a team that can stand up to Kangakshan (without using an uber yourself) then you don't stand a chance against, say, Mewtwo or Kyogre. And god forbid your opponent's team is all ubers. lol

    Inclusion of Ubers makes battles over before they begin, even for balanced teams. You either have the counter or you don't. This is why smogon has that system. It's not about figuring out counters, because creating counters for particular ubers would require knowing their team before the battle begins.

    Getting the ubers out of standard play allows well-balanced teams to have good fights against each other. The strategical aspect then occurs IN the battle itself, rather than BEFORE the battle begins (in which case it's incredibly luck-based).

    What you literally just said is what I said in my rant, in that "anyone can get a good winning streak if they put arbitrary rules on what pokemon and moves can and can't be used in a battle" but I stand firm by my statement of "if a sentret with double team can wipe out your team, your strategy is at fault, not the move" Obviously no one can be prepared for every single pokemon out there, but you don't get ideas for inventive strategies and team building by dictating what can and can't be used, otherwise you get players that have no idea how to handle extremely easy to deal with situations like double team or sleep. Yeah, ofcourse if your team is nothing but pokemon with subsititute, earthquake, power up punch, or whatever high powered moves with items geared to specifically power up one aspect or one single move ofcourse you're going to have trouble with a gastly who knows hypnosis. If you have a balanced team and are prepared not only for a heavy hitting battle but also some strategice moves and teams, you'll be prepared for a huge variety of what the opponents could throw out at you rather than only using the pre approved smogon (or whatever) teams so you know "Oh, I'm playing this tier, so it will likely be this handful of pokemon so I'll just pick the counters in my team" rather than not having any idea what the opponent could be throwing out and you needing to build a team that can handle a big variety of things rather than a small focus.

    Again, it's ridiculous that stupid things are being banned (Double team? TONS of counters! Speed boost Blaziken? If my pokemon is already slower than blaziken when the battle starts, there's absolutely no benefit to Speed Boost whatsoever. It doesn't get extra moves based on how fast it is, just throw out some powerful tank that can withstand a hit or two from it, smack it back AFTER it moves and it's dead. It doesn't matter how fast it is, it still only gets 1 move per turn) and like I said it's turning gamers who can't handle extremely simple moves that have MANY counters. It's not luck based at all, it's all up to your own preparedness.
     
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    It's not luck based at all, it's all up to your own preparedness.

    No.

    If you run such gimmicks it is luck-based. Especially in 6v6 battles. When someone runs gimmicks like those, you can pretty much tell who should win the battle BEFORE the battle even begins just by looking at the teams.

    Smogon's system makes teams typically even. With their tier system it makes it so that battles are typically decided by the strategies you use during the match making for more enjoyable battles.

    Also your sentret you might win sometimes but just because you beat someone doesn't mean their team sucks or that they need to make a new team. lol. It just means they didn't have a team suited for your gimmick.
     

    Nah

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    Chill, Howmander, chill.

    Yes, evasion moves can be dealt with. But at what cost? Using Pokemon and/or moves that have absolutely no use besides countering the evasion moves, which leaves you exposed to other threats. No one wants to use something to deal with just one thing.

    Tell me something, Howmander. Would you honestly be ok with fighting a Kyogre or a Xerneas with a team of OU Pokemon (and you didn't know that they were on the opposing team)?

    Are you familiar with the term "overcentralizing"? Some things are banned because they are OP, and so everyone would use them, which then causes the metagame to revolve around a certain few things, which kills creativity and critical thinking because you have to use and/or deal with the OP thing in order to not get your ass handed to you every single time.

    And ya know what? If you don't like Smogon's rules, don't play in places using Smogon's rules. The Battle Spot, Battle Maison, and VGC follow different rules and ban lists.

    There is one point I agree on with you, though: Speed Boost Blaziken doesn't need to be banned. It's not that OP.
     

    iTeruri

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  • If Mega Kangaskhan is so powerful it'll be used a lot, put a counter on your team. If people with Mega Kangaskhan on their team know a lot of people have specific Mega Kangaskhan counters, they'll stop using her. That's the very definition of a metagame; the game outside of the game. Knowing what you might face and prepare for it.

    Take the age old game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, for example. If you play the game against your friend and know he picks paper 7 out of 10 times, you can pick scissors to beat him 7 out of 10 times. That is, unless he starts to catch on and you'll have to outpredict eachother.

    The Pokémon metagame is much more complex than the Rock, Paper, Scissors metagame, but you get my point. If you know 7 out of 10 people run a Mega Kangaskhan, why don't you put a counter on your team and win 7 out of 10 times?

    On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan can be pretty risky if people start to catch on. One has to evaluate her strength and the likelihood of running into a counter, thus making her worthless and losing you the battle.

    In other words, the Pokémon you'll see on teams will shift as the metagame catches on and progresses, but not if it doesn't get the freedom to evolve.
     
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  • If Mega Kangaskhan is so powerful it'll be used a lot, put a counter on your team. If people with Mega Kangaskhan on their team know a lot of people have specific Mega Kangaskhan counters, they'll stop using her. That's the very definition of a metagame; the game outside of the game. Knowing what you might face and prepare for it.

    Take the age old game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, for example. If you play the game against your friend and know he picks paper 7 out of 10 times, you can pick scissors to beat him 7 out of 10 times. That is, unless he starts to catch on and you'll have to outpredict eachother.

    The Pokémon metagame is much more complex than the Rock, Paper, Scissors metagame, but you get my point. If you know 7 out of 10 people run a Mega Kangaskhan, why don't you put a counter on your team and win 7 out of 10 times?

    On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan can be pretty risky if people start to catch on. One has to evaluate her strength and the likelihood of running into a counter, thus making her worthless and losing you the battle.

    In other words, the Pokémon you'll see on teams will shift as the metagame catches on and progresses, but not if it doesn't get the freedom to evolve.

    The thing is, when you need a dedicated counter for just one Pokemon, you know that one Pokemon is just too OP to stay in that tier. As such, it limits team building.
     
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    I don't like the 'limits team building' line. You could argue that entry hazards limit team building. You either need a rapid spinner, a defogger or to not use pokemon that are weak to rocks.
    I think Mega Kangha was worth smogon banning to ubers but still disagree with that line.
     
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