† Sinnoh Victors † - The Fourth Generation

[Squirrel]

Should Arceus been seen as the Pokemon God? In my opinion, no. In all honesty I don't know the stories behind it, but one thing I do know is that they'll create something better and more important in the future. It does seem weird that the God Pokemon was introduced in Gen IV like Olli said, but I suppose there are valid reasons for that. For example its temple is in Sinnoh (iirc?) so I don't see how it would've been found in earlier regions :3 Although there certainly should've been references to him in the old games (or even Gen V!) if he really was the Pokemon God. I can't even think of any references to him in the Gen IV games, let alone the rest of the series!

 

[miltankRancher]

Well I personally don't think he deserves the title at all, no matter what his background is, because of course Gamefreak decided that they wanted a God and gave him a story and stuff, though he was introduced 4 generations in. If they ever wanted to make a Pokémon God, they should've done it if they chose to end the series of games. Now it'll be harder to make up legendaries who stand up to his level, which will just result in getting desperate results of legendaries. I know B/W did pretty well, but we can't expect that to hold up, which is why I don't think he deserves the title of god.
And as Golem said, I don't think the Pokémon world should have a God, as it just kind of ruins the concept of all the other legendaries, making them seem much more worthless :<

This. I just said that Arceus is deserving because of all the supporting story behind him. But barring that, no, he has no right to claim ownership to the throne. I mean, there are far better legendaries there that could be called the god, even without their story. Zapdos, Mewtwo, Reshiram; all could be considered gods. Arceus is a broken legendary.

 

[Cosmotone8]

This. I just said that Arceus is deserving because of all the supporting story behind him. But barring that, no, he has no right to claim ownership to the throne. I mean, there are far better legendaries there that could be called the god, even without their story. Zapdos, Mewtwo, Reshiram; all could be considered gods. Arceus is a broken legendary.

They could? What do you mean?

 

[Halcyon]

Name: Halcyon
Partner Pokemon: Radar 2000 the Magnezone
Reason for Joining: I do feel that Generation IV is the most underrated generation out of the bunch. I think it deserves some love! That being said, the designs (especially new evolutions and pre-evolutions) this generation are really creative and interesting in my opinion. :D

 

[Olli]

Name: Halcyon
Partner Pokemon: Radar 2000 the Magnezone
Reason for Joining: I do feel that Generation IV is the most underrated generation out of the bunch. I think it deserves some love! That being said, the designs (especially new evolutions and pre-evolutions) this generation are really creative and interesting in my opinion. :D

Welcome to the club, Halcyon, I hope you'll enjoy your stay here in the club, have fun and hopefully stay active n_n
You're right about Gen IV being too underrated than it should have been, 'cause even though it's not my favourite generation, I don't think it should get so much hate either. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but both DPPt and BW has gotten a lot of hate because of Pokémon designs and other new stuff from people who are too affected by nostalgia to realise that some of the designs, features etc. are actually pretty good.

Anyways, the topic about Arceus is still open for discussion, but I'm starting a new topic anyways.

'What was your thoughts on Cyrus' intentions for Team Galactic?'
Closing an eye for all the insanity of the plan, how did you like the intentions of Cyrus' plan? Do you think a world without emotions would possibly be a better place? (making it relative to Pokémon, so like there would be no abuse of Pokémon, but no bonding with them either)

 

[Cosmotone8]

I guess it could be alright. But like Cynthia says, without joy there is no sorrow and vice versa. It would be so boring, but there would be no conflict.

 

[Squirrel]

'What was your thoughts on Cyrus' intentions for Team Galactic?'
Closing an eye for all the insanity of the plan, how did you like the intentions of Cyrus' plan? Do you think a world without emotions would possibly be a better place? (making it relative to Pokémon, so like there would be no abuse of Pokémon, but no bonding with them either)

Interesting question... I think there would obviously be a lot of negative effects of his plan, but there would be some positives too. A world without emotions means no joy, no love, no happiness, no empathy; it means a world where no one could care for anyone else and the only thing to do would be to survive. However; that may not necessarily be a bad thing. If emotions didn't exist, people wouldn't be able to feel sad or lonely or worried; maybe this would cancel out the negative affects mentioned before as it'd be impossible to feel negatively towards them. Life would basically lose all meaning! And as far as Pokemon are concerned, people would no longer train them or bond with them; it'd be all-out war! The Pokemon would have no reason not to attack trainers or even random people walking by; they wouldn't even stay by their trainer's side. But then again they also wouldn't be abused... Overall, I reckon Cyrus' plan would be a horrible thing indeed and I'm glad he was stopped!

Sinnoh Victors: Bringing philosophical debates to Pokemon Clubs since 2012!

 

[Cosmotone8]

Interesting question... I think there would obviously be a lot of negative effects of his plan, but there would be some positives too. A world without emotions means no joy, no love, no happiness, no empathy; it means a world where no one could care for anyone else and the only thing to do would be to survive. However; that may not necessarily be a bad thing. If emotions didn't exist, people wouldn't be able to feel sad or lonely or worried; maybe this would cancel out the negative affects mentioned before as it'd be impossible to feel negatively towards them. Life would basically lose all meaning! And as far as Pokemon are concerned, people would no longer train them or bond with them; it'd be all-out war! The Pokemon would have no reason not to attack trainers or even random people walking by; they wouldn't even stay by their trainer's side. But then again they also wouldn't be abused... Overall, I reckon Cyrus' plan would be a horrible thing indeed and I'm glad he was stopped!

Sinnoh Victors: Bringing philosophical debates to Pokemon Clubs since 2012!

I thought we would all be like zombies. We wouldn't care if we were attacked.
BTW, that last sentence made me crack up.

 

[Olli]

We wouldn't exactly be zombies. Taking away our emotions doesn't make us mindless, we just aren't emotionally affected by things. Like beating someone in battle wouldn't make us feel any kind of joy or happiness and we wouldn't feel any sadness when losing anything important, though we're still able to feel pain, since we haven't lost our senses and intelligence, thus making us care if we were to be attacked by Pokémon.

But yes, I agree, Alex. I guess Cyrus' intentions were kinda like the villain of the Vicini movie's. Cyrus probably believe that the world would be better off without emotions, though he apparently couldn't see the insanity in it. He probably only saw the positive effects of a world without emotion and were to caught into that image, that he didn't even consider all the negative effects. Like in the animé where he ends up leaving into his "perfect" world alone, thinking about it, he was probably lead to misery, not only due to the negative sides of the world, but also due to realising the negative effects :I

You're right, this is getting philosophical >_<

 

[miltankRancher]

@Cosmotone: (too lazy to quote. sorry) I mean, if its power we are talking about, there are several other legendaries that could match Arceus.

on the topic:

Cyrus certainly has something to say; he just failed to make it through. I am an absolute Cyrus fan. But, I am not biased. I agree with you on us being zombie-like entities, crawling in the pokemon world, feeding off things and such. But think. Without emotions, yes, there would be no happiness. No joy, no sense of fulfillment. But look, free anesthesia no pain! No sorrow. The world would exist as a neutral entity, possessing individuals with neither love nor hate. It will be a new world, but wouldn't it be beneficial to all? Petty disputes over pokemon, brother against brother to gain a badge, and who is getting hurt? Ash does. The Pokemon. We forcefully capture them when they are low in health, and forced them to battle for us. to win our battles. to settle our disputes. what would you feel if you are being used?

Therefore, I agree to some extent with cyrus' plan. his plan of eradicating all emotions is partially a good thing. except you can never experience the joy of eating a pizza again. Pokemon would be living wild, untouched, and free. And so do people.

 

[Olli]

Again, I disagree with the fact that you make it out like the lack of emotions will zombify us. Our intelligence and senses are still intact, thus making us feel and think like most humans would normally do, we just wouldn't be emotionally effected by anything. Even though I agree that a life would seem better without the negative emotions that affect our decisions and actions and make us do horrible things, though a life without emotions seems empty. You mentioned that the Pokémon are being used by the trainers, though what we've come to learn from the animé series at least, is that the Pokémon are willingly going into battle, whether it's to satisfy their owner, or if they possibly get some satisfaction out of battling themselves. So all in all, few Pokémon are actually getting used, though there still are the nasty kind of trainers and those people who only use Pokémon for research, or those who use them for their evil plans, they are the ones who shouldn't have those negative emotions.

Now a possible way out of all this, would probably be if it was possible to only remove all the negative emotions, like sadness, anger, etc. from the world, yet still keep the positive ones, so that everything would remain positive, which would obviously be a better world, though that seems more like a dream wish, one which would be even more impossible than simply removing emotions.

 

[Sector]

And as Golem said, I don't think the Pokémon world should have a God, as it just kind of ruins the concept of all the other legendaries, making them seem much more worthless :<

What both you and Golem have said, a single Pokemon as a God, which is also a LEGENDARY Pokemon, shouldn't be accepted. They can have 'leaders' like king or queens of all Pokemon, but not God. After all, I really hate how they messed up the whole story behind what they created Mew for and they brought in Arceus and messed it up. Big time.

Name: Halcyon
Partner Pokemon: Radar 2000 the Magnezone
Reason for Joining: I do feel that Generation IV is the most underrated generation out of the bunch. I think it deserves some love! That being said, the designs (especially new evolutions and pre-evolutions) this generation are really creative and interesting in my opinion. :D

Welcome to the club Halcyon!

'What was your thoughts on Cyrus' intentions for Team Galactic?'

Cyrus intention for Team Galactic, to me, is nothing more than what Team Rocket wants. Power. Trying to mess with history (Dialga/Palkia, Time/Space). That's something that shouldn't be messed with and is very, very risky to bring forth.

I honestly do not remember a much about the Sinnoh storyline though. Been a long time since I completed the storyline..

He isn't as cool as N though!

 

[miltankRancher]

You mentioned that the Pokémon are being used by the trainers, though what we've come to learn from the animé series at least, is that the Pokémon are willingly going into battle, whether it's to satisfy their owner, or if they possibly get some satisfaction out of battling themselves.

We actually have really small proof that pokemon wanted to battle with each other. If we take what the anime portray as the only REAL TRUTH, then yes, that would be true. But what of N, who says he can understand what each Pokemon speaks of? I think he has some kind of basis, like a few Pokemon who is against battling.

Now a possible way out of all this, would probably be if it was possible to only remove all the negative emotions, like sadness, anger, etc. from the world, yet still keep the positive ones, so that everything would remain positive, which would obviously be a better world, though that seems more like a dream wish, one which would be even more impossible than simply removing emotions.

Now this is a good idea. If Cyrus aims to remove just the negative aspects of the emotional brain, then he would have amassed more supporters from the pokemon community.

 

[BZW Golem]

Time for what I think about Cyrus :3

Yea, Team Galactic was not really different form Team Rocket.
The both wanted power, the only thing that made them a bit different is that TG was more into space and time domination, and TR cared more for money.
Cyrus wanted to destroy and then create.. but IMO he was just a psychopath who had a sad childhood and just couldn't accept the world as It is.

To be honest.. N was probably the first antagonist in pokemon that was not "just a psyho wanting power to do something" xD

 

[miltankRancher]

Time for what I think about Cyrus :3

Yea, Team Galactic was not really different form Team Rocket.
The both wanted power, the only thing that made them a bit different is that TG was more into space and time domination, and TR cared more for money.
Cyrus wanted to destroy and then create.. but IMO he was just a psychopath who had a sad childhood and just couldn't accept the world as It is.

To be honest.. N was probably the first antagonist in pokemon that was not "just a psyho wanting power to do something" xD

Cyrus is actually a child born in anger. And yes, I quite agree with you that Cyurs is just a psychopath who wanted to remodel a world in his own might. But, that is not saying that his intentions were bad. Maybe its good, but the way he was going to accomplish it is bad.

 

[Cosmotone8]

Quote:
Petty disputes over pokemon, brother against brother to gain a badge, and who is getting hurt? Ash does. The Pokemon. We forcefully capture them when they are low in health, and forced them to battle for us. to win our battles. to settle our disputes. what would you feel if you are being used?

This sounds more like Ghetsis to me than Cyrus, with the liberation and being forced. Oh and a sidenote, N has always confused me.

 

[Olli]

Alright, it has been a great discussion and you're free to continue it, though it's quite the time for a new topic too.

Which was your favourite town in Sinnoh?
Remember that you can base your answers on both the games and the anime and what else comes to mind, just so you don't limit it to stuff in the games only ;)

And as a little side topic which I'm probably gonna add from time to time. Which Pokémon do you think should be the next featured Pokémon of the club?
It would be great if you could provide some pictures, so that it'd be easier to choose ^^

 

[miltankRancher]

Sunyshore. Sunyshor is the only city in Sinnoh that actually appealed to me. I love the tower, and I love Volkner. He is so cool, too bad that he quickly fall to EQ's. :\


Bibarel please!

The very best HM slave the games had produced!

 

[Nagaraja]

My favorite town in Sinnoh was definately be Floraroma Town. It's just beautiful. I love flowers, and the music for it isn't to shabby. :D
It's been so long since I've played D/P/P, I had to literally fly everywhere in Platinum just to see where the heck I was talking about. XD

 

[Hikamaru]

My fave town/city in Sinnoh is Hearthome City due to Amity Square and the Contest Hall.

It's so cute.