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[日本語] Japanese Help/Discussion/Community Thread: Learn Japanese through Pokemon!

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  • I don't know if this thread was where the learnin' was supposed to happen or not, but I figured no one would mind if I stepped in and tried to get something started in case anyone is itching to learn.

    ---------

    So, you want to learn Japanese, eh? One of the first things you'll learn about the language is that it is (probably) very different from your native language. For starters, Japanese doesn't have an alphabet. What it has is something called a syllabary. Instead of single letters like A, Q, and G, it has sounds (technically they're called morae) and it's easiest to think of them as syllables. (If you forget, syllables are how many 'sounds' a word has. For example, the word 'happy' has 5 letters, but only 2 syllables.)

    Most of these morae will have one of 5 vowel sounds, which it letters are written: a, i, u, e, and o, and that is their "alphabetical" order. In Japanese these five sounds can be written:

    あ い う え お

    For most other morae you will see that they're a combination of a vowel sound (like one of the above 5) and a consonant sound like that made by the letters S, T or K. In English (or most likely whatever your native language is) if you wanted to add a "K" sound to an "A" sound you would just put the two letters side by side - ka.

    This is not how it works in Japanese. In Japanese a consonant/vowel combination has its own individual kana (a single written character that represents a mora) which includes both sounds. For example, you know that the sound "a" is written like this:



    But to write the sound "ka" you don't include
    あ, you write it like this:



    Makes sense, right? All in all there are dozens of combinations which cover nearly all of the sounds you might find in Japanese (there are sounds which aren't common for Japanese speakers and so there are a couple of tricks to get around this, but let's not worry about that now). Knowing and eventually memorizing these is important because they are going to be one of your foundations of learning Japanese.

    Below is a partial list of kana with their corresponding transliterations (how they can be written in letters). These are actually from one of two syllabaries that Japanese has, this one called hiragana. Ideally you would practice writing them down over and over until you memorize them, but on the internet I suppose it's good just to familiarize yourself with them.

    あ い う え お
    (a i u e o)

    か き く け こ
    (ka ki ku ke ko)

    さ し す せ そ
    (sa shi su se so)

    た ち つ て と
    (ta chi tsu te to)

    な に ぬ ね の
    (na ni nu ne no)

    は ひ ふ へ ほ
    (ha hi fu he ho)

    ま み む め も
    (ma mi mu me mo)

    や ゆ よ
    (ya - yu - yo)

    ら り る れ ろ
    (ra ri ru re ro)

    わ を
    (wa - - - wo/o)


    (n)

    You'll probably notice that some of them don't quite follow the pattern that most of them do. That's because there are some sounds which aren't normally a part of Japanese. There are also some gaps where you would expect to see some kana that you won't see for the same reason.

    That's probably enough for now. It's going to look like really basic stuff for anyone who's already studied it, but if you haven't done this for a while or are starting out new then it's good to learn this and learn it good well.

    If you would like to test yourself a little then below is a small quiz with the answers in spoilers.
    1. か
    2. ほ
    3. へ
    4. い
    5. め
    6. し
    7. き
    8. つ
    9. ん
    10. て
    Spoiler:


    1. ma
    2. o
    3. wa
    4. su
    5. fu
    6. re
    7. to
    8. ni
    9. no
    10 e
    Spoiler:

     

    Buoysel

    Trust me, I'm a Professional*
    2,006
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    15
    Years
  • I'm always confusing nu, ne, me, and re. I'm going to practice those tomorrow on lunch brake.
     

    Azumi

    ★七色に光る女★
    1,631
    Posts
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    Years
  • I don't know if I'm allowed to do this but if you don't mind, I'm going to post up a little tip for you all.

    ***​

    Here's a way I myself identify the hiragana for re, wa and ne, as well as me and nu - usually, anyway.
    First, re, wa and ne are put into one category because they look similar, while me and nu is in another.

    Then, I see it this way:
    れ (re) is the one that goes out;
    わ (wa) is the one that goes in; and
    ね (ne) is the one with the curl.

    It's basically the same for me and nu:
    め is the normal one; and
    ぬ is the curly one.

    That's all for this little tip. You don't need to use this tip if you don't want/have a pressing need to. ^^
     

    Khengi

    Nostalgic Trainer
    68
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • Sorry, sorry, sorry! I've been busy so much this week with school that I haven't been able to log in. We'll definitely start before or on Friday.

    I totally welcome any help with Japanese for people. Feel feel to post whatever you feel will help others!

    Also, he's a tip for Nu and Ne (I teach children Japanese):

    ぬ is the second sound of the word 'Dog', いぬ。 Try and picture a dog curled up sleeping with its tail looping.

    ね is the first sound of the word 'Cat', ねこ. Try to picture a cat upright with its tail looping.
     

    chaos11011

    [untitled]
    1,400
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    • Age 27
    • MA
    • Seen May 4, 2021
    I would like to help. I know Katakana extremely well. (I know every letter by memory) But I just started Hirigana and Kanji.
     

    Alice

    (>^.(>0.0)>
    3,077
    Posts
    15
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  • ^ He had tons of interest, but hasn't logged in since December 8th. He got everyone hyped up, and then never started it.
     

    Ru-Kun

    bleh...
    847
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • ^ He had tons of interest, but hasn't logged in since December 8th. He got everyone hyped up, and then never started it.

    Well he probably has a very busy life. We can all just step up and work a little by ourselves while we wait.

    Well I'd like to join. I've been learning Japanese since my freshman year (so a little less than a year) of high school, well not in school, but self teaching. Soon I'm going to order Michel Thomas because I've had some great reviews of it. So now I'll introduce myself in my limited Japanese.

    こんにちはみんなさん! はじめまして. ルです. じゅうごさいです. こうこうのにねんせいです. ひらがなとかたかなをしっています. かんじをちょっとしっています. まいにち日本語をべんきょうします. 日本のうたうが大すきです. ハロ!プロのうたうが大すきです. モーニング娘は すごいです! よろしくおねがいします.
     
    10,769
    Posts
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    Years
  • Well, I may as well post something more since I left a few things out of my first one.

    More Hiragana

    Okay, so in my previous post about hiragana I showed a bunch of them. (They're in the spoiler if you want to look). But I didn't show all of them and there's a reason for that.


    Spoiler:


    The above hiragana cover pretty much every different shape you'll see, but there are others which take some of the above shapes and add a little something to them to make new hiragana. Once you have the above kana memorized these new ones shouldn't be as difficult to remember.

    First, let's go back to a few of those groups of hiragana who will be the stars of this lesson:

    か き く け こ
    (ka ki ku ke ko)

    さ し す せ そ
    (sa shi su se so)

    た ち つ て と
    (ta chi tsu te to)

    は ひ ふ へ ほ
    (ha hi fu he ho)

    These four groups are special because by adding little marks to them they become different kana. We'll add what's called a dakuten and all that really means is we'll be adding a mark that looks a lot like a quotation mark (") but that's slightly slanted, like so (゛).

    か --> が

    Easy. The two little lines always go in the upper right corner, usually on the outside, but depending on the shape sometimes they go slightly under. Now we'll do it to all 20 kana.

    が ぎ ぐ げ ご
    (ga gi gu ge go)

    ざ じ ず ぜ ぞ
    (za ji zu ze zo)

    だ ぢ づ で ど
    (da di/ji dzu/zu de do)

    ば び ぶ べ ぼ
    (ba bi bu be bo)

    You'll see that for the most part the changes to the pronunciations follow the same consonant pattern that these kana had before we added the dakuten. The irregular kana (marked in bold, the ones whose pronunciations don't follow the predicted patterns) are in the same places as they were before with the exception of the ふ (fu) kana which becomes a regular ぶ (bu).

    You'll probably also notice that ぢ (di/ji) and づ (dzu/zu) have two pronunciations, one each that is unique and one each that matches the pronunciation of the kana above them, じ (ji) and ず (zu). This is because ぢ and づ are fairly similar in pronunciation to the kana above them, so much so that their usage is pretty rare and you don't often see them used except in a few specific words. For anyone just learning hiragana it's probably enough to know that they exist and what they look like.

    Linguistically, there's a fine reason for these kana with dakuten to be related to their non-dakuten base kana. The "k", "t", and "s" sounds are all what can be called voiceless sounds, meaning your vocal chords don't vibrate when you make these sounds. Similarly, "g", "d", and "z" sounds are all called voiced which, you guessed it, mean they are all pronounced by vibrating your vocal chords. Try making a "k" sound (without adding a vowel sound) and then try a "g" sound. You'll see the difference, but you'll also see that to make the "k" and "g" sounds you position your mouth and tongue in the exact same place and that is the secret connection. The dakuten means you're voicing the sounds.

    I didn't include the "h"/"b" connection for a different reason. And that's because there's yet another level of changes that this group makes. So far we have these two related groups.

    は ひ ふ へ ほ
    (ha hi fu he ho)

    ば び ぶ べ ぼ
    (ba bi bu be bo)

    But there is a third.

    ぱ ぴ ぷ ぺ ぽ
    (pa pi pu pe po)

    To make this group of kana you need to add a different dakuten, a little circle instead of two small lines. This is the only group with uses the circle.

    The linguistic connection here (for anyone who cares to know) is a little backwards from the other examples, but it's the same principle. "p" and "b" sounds are also voiceless (the "p" sound) and voiced (the "b" sound). There's no real linguistic reason they are both connected to the "h" sound, though.

    So, now that we have those five extra groups we can enlarge our list of hiragana:

    あ い う え お
    (a i u e o)

    か き く け こ
    (ka ki ku ke ko)

    が ぎ ぐ げ ご
    (ga gi gu ge go)

    さ し す せ そ
    (sa shi su se so)

    ざ じ ず ぜ ぞ
    (za ji zu ze zo)

    た ち つ て と
    (ta chi tsu te to)

    だ ぢ づ で ど
    (da di/ji dzu/zu de do)

    な に ぬ ね の
    (na ni nu ne no)

    は ひ ふ へ ほ
    (ha hi fu he ho)

    ば び ぶ べ ぼ
    (ba bi bu be bo)

    ぱ ぴ ぷ ぺ ぽ
    (pa pi pu pe po)

    ま み む め も
    (ma mi mu me mo)

    や ゆ よ
    (ya - yu - yo)

    ら り る れ ろ
    (ra ri ru re ro)

    わ を
    (wa - - - wo/o)


    (n)

    And that's pretty much it for hiragana. There are a couple of other peculiarities, but I can go over them in another post if anyone is interested.

    Quiz!

    If you would like to test your memory again then below is a small quiz with the answers in spoilers.
    1. で
    2. が
    3. び
    4. べ
    5. ず
    6. ぽ
    7. ご
    8. じ
    9. ぷ
    10. だ
    Spoiler:


    1. ze
    2. pa
    3. do
    4. bo
    5. pe
    6. dzu/zu
    7. gi
    8. za
    9. ge
    10. gu
    Spoiler:

     

    yaminokaitou

    りゅうのマスター
    350
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • こんにちは。私も入りたいです。 大学の時日本語を勉強してて今あまり勉強できないです。日本語が少し分かっているけど、たんごと読みが下手です。どうぞよろしくね。
    (Good afternoon. I would like to join too. I studied Japanese in college, but I can't study it much now. I understand a little Japanese, but I am bad at vocabulary and listening.)
     
    Last edited:
    10,769
    Posts
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    Years
  • Much thanks for all the info/help your posting Scarf. Its been helping me quite a bit.
    You're welcome. :3 It's nice to know I'm not just repeating something everyone already knows.

    Aaaannnnd to make more use of this post I guess I'll add some odds and ends about hiragana.



    Odds and Ends

    So there are a few more normal things we can do with hiragana to make some more sounds and they involve making pairs of kana. First we take all the kana that make the "i" sound (except for the actual "i" kana itself). For repetition's sake I've marked them in bold.

    By the way, if anyone could help me find a better way to format these into nice even tables or something so it's neater looking that would be most appreciated.

    あ い う え お
    く け こ
    ぐ げ ご
    す せ そ
    ず ぜ ぞ
    つ て と
    づ で ど
    ぬ ね の
    ふ へ ほ
    ぶ べ ぼ
    ぷ ぺ ぽ
    む め も
    や ゆ よ
    る れ ろ
    わ を


    Now, normally when you put two kana side by side there's nothing special about that. ね (ne) next to こ (ko) is just ねこ (neko) and き (ki) next to や (ya) is just きや (kiya).

    So why are those "i" sound kana special? When you take one of them you can add a small-size version of や (ya), ゆ (yu), or よ (yo) and make a new sound.

    きよ --> きょ

    (See how it's smaller in the example on the right?)

    What we're doing is taking two sounds (in the example above "ki" and "yo") and mashing them together (making "kyo). We can do this because the sounds are similar enough that they can be combined into a single syllable. The "y" sound (in English, mind you) at the beginning of words is similar enough to an "i" sound (which, to make sure we're thinking of the same sound, is the "ee" sound in "cheese" and not the "i" sound from "pit"). Try pronouncing "yam" as "iam" or "yoke" as "ioke" without making two separate vowel sounds.

    So, we can take any of the "i" sound kana (for instance, "ri")



    Add one of the "y"-beginning kana ("yu")

    りゆ

    Shrink the "y" kana

    りゅ

    And we have a new and distinct sound ("ryu").

    Now, some of these combinations are more common than others. A lot of words contain the sounds for "sho", "kyo", and "ju" while "hyu" and "pya" are probably going to pop up mostly as sound effects in manga and rarely, if ever, in "real" words.

    I also realize that I'm being a little inconsistent (and possibly confusing) in how I'm transliterating some of these combos. In the examples I just gave I mentioned both "sho" and "ju" and the careful reader will notice that neither has a "y" in them, unlike every other example. This is a convenience issue. Ideally, for consistency's sake, we would write "shyo", "shyu", "jyo" and so on. However, it's most common (meaning easier) for English speakers/learners of Japanese to drop the "y" whenever a pairing includes the kana for shi, ji, or chi (and the di/ji kana on the rare occasions when it is used).

    Other Ways to Write It

    Since I brought up transliteration I should also mention that in some circles it's accepted/preferred to use a more consistent system to write Japanese than the one I originally presented. What I mean is that while most of the time you'll see the kana つ represented with the letters tsu, it is just as acceptable to write it as tu. This would give you a more streamlined way of writing Japanese so that the "t" group would be "ta ti tu te to" ("chi" becomes "ti") rather than "ta chi tsu te to". The reason you'll see "tsu" (and the others) used more often is because that's a closer approximation to how the kana are pronounced, but it does lead to some confusion when you have a kana like づ which you might see transcribed in various places as du, dzu, zu, or tzu.

    Missing Kana

    Another fun bit of trivia involve the "w" group of kana. There are only 2 of them, right? Well, there are now, but there were 2 more in the past. Kana for the sounds "wi" and "we" used to exist in standard Japanese, but because their pronunciations are close enough to "i" and "e" they were gradually weeded out and replaced. But you might run into them and want to know what you're looking at, so here they are:

    ゐ ゑ
    (wi we)

    Just don't confuse them for み (mi), ぬ (nu), る (ru), or ろ (ro).

    Edit: I mistakenly said the last two obscure kana were in the "y" group when they're actually in the "w" group.
     
    Last edited:

    SharKing319

    King o' Sharpedo, baby.
    4
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    • Seen Jul 25, 2011
    If it's possible, can I still become a student? If it'll get started (if it hasn't already), I'd like to see this. I'm quite interested in learning Japanese.

    (Just so you know, I already have hiragana and katakana memorized.)
     

    Buoysel

    Trust me, I'm a Professional*
    2,006
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • I might as well throw my two cents in:

    Taking the tittle of the thread literally: I am going to learn / help you learn the Katakana through Pokemon.

    There is an order (an alphabet order so to speak) for the Japanese writing system but the way I am going to learn/teach does not follow said order. It is a good idea to know the order and it can be found by looking at Scarf's posts. The Kataka follow the same order as the Hiragana.

    Now on to Kataka learning.

    First thing first: Pokemon

    As we all know Pokemon is short for Pocket Monsters. In Japanese pocket is poketto and monster is monsuta.

    Write these down as you go alone, the only way to master Japanese writing is to practice it!!!!

    Japanese has a stroke order for its alphabet. It is a good idea to follow said order. It makes it much easier to write the characters correctly if you use the correct stoke order. About.com has a nice article starting with "a" here

    So lets look at Pokemon first: ポケモン

    The first character ポ (po), as you can see this character has a small circle on the upper right corner, there are a couple of names for it but I am going to call it the shorter name which is maru. The maru is a mark chaining the sound of the character, originally the character is ホ (ho) but when we add the maru to ho it changes to po.

    The next character is ケ(ke) the rest of the characters are plain and simple

    モ(mo)
    (n)

    In Japanese no syllable is stressed, so when you say Pokemon its po-ke-mo-n (When you stress the syllable like us English speaking people like to do it sounds more like po-key-mon)

    Now test your self:

    I can see the Japanese word Pokemon twice in this image can you?

    [日本語] Japanese Help/Discussion/Community Thread: Learn Japanese through Pokemon!
     
    10,769
    Posts
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    Years
  • Okay, more lesson for everbody!

    If you've got hiragana down then it's time to go over katakana.



    Katakana

    Hiragana and katakana are the two (mostly) phonetic syllabaries of Japanese. Although written differently they parallel each other in a similar way to English's capital and lower-case letters. So for us "JAPANESE" would be pronounced the same way as "japanese" and it's the same idea with hiragana and katakana.

    Let's take the first row of hiragana as an example:

    あいうえお

    Which is katakana is written

    アイウエオ

    But pronounced exactly the same. There's not much similarity with these five, is there? A few katakana are nearly identical to their hiragana counterparts, but for the most part you'll need to remember completely new kana. Here's a comparison of the two with the hiragana equivalents in parentheses:

    アイウエオ
    (あいうえお)​
    A I U E O

    カキクケコ
    ガギグゲゴ
    (かきくけこ)​
    KA KI KU KE KO
    GA GI GU GE GO

    サシスセソ
    ザジズゼゾ
    (さしすせそ)​
    SA SHI SU SE SO
    ZA JI ZU ZE ZO

    タチツテト
    ダヂヅデド
    (たちつてと)​
    TA CHI TSU TE TO
    DA JI DZU DE DO

    ナニヌネノ
    (なにぬねの)​
    NA NI NU NE NO

    ハヒフヘホ
    バビブベボ
    パピプペポ
    (はひふへほ)​
    HA HI FU HE HO
    BA BI BU BE BO
    PA PI PU PE PO

    マミムメモ
    (まみむめも)​
    MA MI MU ME MO

    ヤ・ユ・ヨ
    (や・ゆ・よ)​
    YA YU YO

    ラリルレロ
    (らりるれろ)​
    RA RI RU RE RO

    ワ・・・ヲ
    (わ・・・を)​
    WA WO

    (ん)​
    N

    I should say that according to most people who study Japanese (me included), katakana is harder to learn than hiragana. Or rather, it's harder to read. So take your time going over them because it's easier to get confused by them. In particular be careful for:
    ス (su) which looks quite similar to ヌ (nu) except that with ヌ the two lines cross.

    ク (ku) and ケ (ke). On ケ the horizontal line extends out to the right further.

    マ (ma) and ム (mu)

    ワ (wa) and ウ (u), and also フ (fu), ラ (ra) and ヲ (wo)

    チ(chi) and テ (te). チ has angled parallel lines and the curved line touches both of them. テ has horizontal lines and the curved line does not reach the top line.

    Also be especially careful with:

    ツ(tsu) and シ (shi). They look very similar. The main difference is that with ツ the two lines are more vertical and with シ the lines are more horizontal. This is one of the instances where it's very beneficial to know the stroke order of a kana, meaning how exactly it's supposed to be written.
    [日本語] Japanese Help/Discussion/Community Thread: Learn Japanese through Pokemon!


    ソ (so) and ン (n). It's the same situation as above. ソ is more vertical and ン is more horizontal.
    Katakana follows the same general rules as hiragana for making combined sounds. So, if you wanted to write "kyo" (きょ) in katakana you would still make the katakana "yo" (ヨ) smaller (ョ) and end up with キョ.


    Something New

    There's also something fairly common to katakana and not very common with hiragana (so much so that I didn't bother mentioning it before). In Japanese every kana ends with a vowel sound (except ン/ん). Each one of these can be extended to create a long vowel sound. For that we use this character: ー

    As you can see, it's a line. What a long vowel sound actually means is a little more complicated. You'll recall that Japanese is composed of morae (usually a combination of a vowel and consonant) and each mora is like a syllable. It's a little difficult to explain so I'll just use examples as I go along.

    Let's start with the kana と (to). Now let's add to it the kana う (u). What we get then is とう (tou). In effect, what we have done is extend the sound と makes by adding a second kana. When spoken とう should have a noticeably longer sound than と by itself. You don't change the sound you make; you simply hold the sound a little longer. You also (in normal speaking) don't try to make them two separate sounds. In English we would still consider とう a single syllable, just like we would for と alone.

    Each of the five vowel sounds has a particular way of extending its sound.
    For "a" sounds (ka, sa, etc.) you add あ (a).

    For "i" sounds (ki, shi, etc.) you add い (i).

    For "u" sounds (ku, su, etc.) you add う (u).

    For "e" sounds (ke, se, etc.) you add い (i), not え (e).

    For "o" sounds (ko, so, etc.) you add う (u), not お (o).
    What you end up with are the sounds "_aa", "_ii", "_uu", "_ei", and "_ou" . (The underline represents the space for whatever consonant sound you're working with.) "_ei" and "_ou" are the most common of these sounds in native Japanese words, but all are common with loan words.

    Now back to that line I introduced. The examples I gave were all in hiragana, but something different happens when we're using katakana. Instead of using a specific kana (ア, イ, ウ, エ, or オ) you simply add ー. So then カー would be "kaa", キー would be "kii", クー would be "kuu", ケー would be "kei", and コー would be "kou".

    Several Things to Note

    Using a line (ー) rather than a kana isn't always how you'll see these extended vowels. You are more or less as likely to see something written like コー as you are like コウ and they would be pronounced the same way and transliterated the same way. ー is more likely to appear in loan words, which are almost always written in katakana, than in native words which are written in katakana.

    The transliterations of extended vowel sounds are sometimes written with a macron over the vowel (kō) rather than with an extra letter (kou). Sometimes you'll see different accent marks used, but it can be confusing as there isn't always a standard of what marks mean. Sometimes you'll see the word 'anime' written as 'animé' in which case the accent would mostly likely stand for a pronunciation mark and not to indicate that you are meant to lengthen the "e" sound.

    Katakana is known for being the syllabary for writing loan, or foreign words. This is true, but it is not limited to that function. Among other things it is what Pokémon names are written with.


    Quiz Yourself

    1. [FONT=&quot]ピカチュウ[/FONT]
    2. [FONT=&quot]ヤドン[/FONT]
    3. [FONT=&quot]エネコ[/FONT]
    4. [FONT=&quot]ルギア[/FONT]
    5. [FONT=&quot]フシギダネ[/FONT]
    6. [FONT=&quot]ストライク[/FONT]
    7. [FONT=&quot]ニドリーナ[/FONT]
    8. [FONT=&quot]リオル[/FONT]
    9. [FONT=&quot]チャーレム[/FONT]
    10. [FONT=&quot]アンノーン[/FONT]

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