Suggestion: 18+ Members Section

[Outlier]

@Introvert - I would suggest if you could actually give non-sexual yet practical topic suggestions you could possibly alleviate some of Magic Fox's doubt. But as it stands nobody has really been able to do that.

The reason some of us seeing a forum like that turn out that way is pretty clear to me, although guys do correct me if I am wrong, because we have already seen that the community members who will most likely post there cannot be trusted to follow the rules and the guidelines as to create at least somewhat meaningful discussion - I think that the fetish thread is a perfect example of that.

I mean, as I said. I'm not a staff member. So I can only guess at their reasoning, but that is certainly a large part of my own reasoning for thinking that such a forum isn't such a great idea and that is without going into why I don't think it's practical or fair again.

How about topics/posts involving videos of songs, movies and tv shows that could be considered inappropriate for minors? Not just because of sexuality but also due to potential swearing and violence.

It all sounds like superficial smut on paper but again I think the biggest appeal of this section for me at least would be the vibe of the place. I refer to my example of the difference in a conversation you would have with your friends than you would if your little brother was listening in. Other than that I'm out of non-sexual related examples.

I will say this though. Why are some of you acting as if talking about sex is inherently a bad thing?Taking into consideration that this discussion will be held among adults.

 

[Kanzler]

Discussion is good, but "enforced" discussion to me seems fundamentally flawed - it takes away from the spontaneity. Ideally, I have nothing against this forum if it can be done right.

I think it would be helpful if we had a clear, objective analysis of what our obligations are under the law and what we fear may happen under the law regardless of the obligations - separate what we must do from what isn't explicitly asked of us but is something we might have to do to cover our asses. The fact that we're "supposed" to be a PG-13 forum and even a Pokemon forum is arguable. Communities evolve over time and I don't see why we should stop that from happening in order to stay true to a certain identity.

Going back to my point about "if it can be done right", we'll be needing some high-quality, heavy-duty mods in charge of the area. Under-policing it can cause us a lot of pain, but over-policing it will kill its purpose in the first place and make it redundant next to the CCC. So not only will we need people with good judgement, but also people open to this kind of discussion. That's a practical issue we have to think about: do we have the personnel capable of running such a section?

I don't think we should think too hard about a mandate of topics for the section, especially since its purpose is to reach a certain vibe and not necessarily to talk about certain things. Given my understanding of the memberbase as I've experienced it, I'm sure the discussion will come.

 

[gimmepie]

@Introvert - I don't think talking about sex or sexuality is a bad thing if it is handled the right way, but it is almost never done so and it seems a bad idea for a place labelling itself as a community to go needlessly setting the scene for people to end up upset and offended. The problem isn't the subject matter, its that a lot of the people on this site can't be trusted to handle such things in an adult manor, regardless of their age.

I think that you do raise an interesting point about said music videos, but again I think simply having the 18+ tags on them in the Culture and Media (or whatever we're calling it now haha) and Video Games sections would be a neater and more practical method for handling this - without going overboard too because really it is ridiculous to hide a little swearing since we all grow up around such language one way or another anyway.

Really the only "benefit" I could see to such a forum would be the loosening of the language filter but let's face it, what's the point since if you just asterisk a few letters we're probably still going to know what your obscenity of choice is. So again, there's really just no point.

Edit: I feel the need to make my stance on the matter perfectly clear because I am seeming really negative about this. I don't have a problem with a forum like this if it is handled well, the posters are mature and friendly and if it doesn't detract from the CCC or D&D sections. However, at this stage I just don't feel as though this is the case. If the the powers-at-be think otherwise so be it, but right now I'm really uncertain as to whether how well a section of the sort would turn out.

 

[Cordelia]

I don't know if I really see the benefit of an 18+ section on PC tbqh. It was tried before with the T-Dome and shut down. Each time it's brought up, it just doesn't work. Does this mean that another time will fail? I'm not sure, but I'm not too keen on the idea. I don't really see the point... I don't want to talk about gore and deep sexuality with any people here, but maybe others do. I just think that should be handled by another board... or another form of communication and not on PC in general.

 

[Outlier]

I don't know if I really see the benefit of an 18+ section on PC tbqh. It was tried before with the T-Dome and shut down. Each time it's brought up, it just doesn't work. Does this mean that another time will fail? I'm not sure, but I'm not too keen on the idea. I don't really see the point... I don't want to talk about gore and deep sexuality with any people here, but maybe others do. I just think that should be handled by another board... or another form of communication and not on PC in general.

Not familiar with the T-Dome but I have seen this kind of thing work before.

To address the highlighted though sexuality and gore wouldn't be all we would talk about lol. Not everything has to be excessive. Besides if that kind of content offends you then you could simply stay out of the section entirely. I mean that will all due respect for the record.

 

[bobandbill]

Even discussion of porn can affect kids, just like M-rated fanfiction.

But... PC allows fics that have M ratings. Granted, a warning is required about it in author notes, but... that's happened just fine.

The mention of a tagging system for age stuff interests me. Unsure about the section - one thing that comes to mind is what would its effect be on the D&D section, the place that is already there for 'more mature' topics than other sections? People who are interested in such topics would probably gravitate to the most mature, not the 'in-between' one. If that makes sense.

Would there also be much activity to warrant its own section? There's a few people interested in it, but it'd need more than that for a fair bit of time to keep the section from being dead, and with age restrictions that's a chunk of the userbase out already.

 

[curiousnathan]

What exactly would this forum hold, is what I'm interested in, considering most of the topics I'm sure could be posted in D&D or Chit Chat Cafe and thrive if monitored properly.

I just don't see any solid purpose for it to exist other than to create a "mature"/"over eighteen vibe" which I don't think is a good enough reason to warrant the creation of a whole new section.

Another aspect that concerns me is that if this essentially goes ahead (either the 18+ tags with restriction on access/forum) I'd be shut out of discussions about topics that I can definitely say I'm mature enough to partake in. I might not be 18, but I'm also not 10. What happens to users like me? One could say it's just a case of tough luck and that I'd just have to wait, but I don't think that would be fair.

Perhaps instead of a section or tages that place restriction on access, the latter could serve as a warning. Anyone would be able to access the 18+ thread, but Pokecommunity would not be held responsible if any problems were to arise if a person under 18 entered the thread; considering that they were warned. (If that makes sense?)

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. C:

 

[Kakarot1212]

Nope, not a good idea!
Because you can easily fake your age, right?

 

[Outlier]

I think I've finally figured out the real reason that most of you wont approve this idea.

You're worried that if I only post in this new section it could leave a massive void among the rest of the forums. Well guys I understand that I'm a well respected and beloved user here so allow me to put your minds at ease.

I hereby promise that if this section gets approved I will continue to post and remain active in all other sections of PC as well, thus continuing to grace members with my presence and spread joy throughout the community.

Now that we've addressed the real issue here can we make this section official?

 

[Puddle]

I think I've finally figured out the real reason that most of you wont approve this idea.

You're worried that if I only post in this new section it could leave a massive void among the rest of the forums. Well guys I understand that I'm a well respected and beloved user here so let me put your minds at ease.

I hereby promise that if this section gets approved I will continue to post and remain active in all other sections of PC as well, thus continuing to grace members with my presence and spread joy throughout the community.

Now that we've addressed the real issue here can we make this section official?

True.

No really, I've been thinking of what you could post about in an 18+ section. Drugs, Cigarettes, Alcohol, Rated R movies, Rated M games, and then the last one I'm not gonna say cause I hope no one posts about that on this forum.

The amount of topics you could get wouldn't really make sense.

Maybe the only other thing that could be added to it would be the censor being removed.

 

[gimmepie]

@Introvert - That's one problem sure but there has been numerous other brought up. Furthermore, a guarantee from one member really does not mean much in the grand scheme of things and any promise can be broken anyway.

 

[Nick]

Possible solution:

Forego the 18 section idea, but still prosper some more "mature" discussions.
Instead of limiting it to users 18 or older, don't limit it at all.
Prefix it with a "Mature" thread prefix.
Force an agreement that says that you're viewing it at your own discretion, sensitive topics within, blah blah blah.

Being 18 or older doesn't mean you're suddenly more mature.
Being under 18 doesn't mean you can't handle those types of discussions.

As long as the user agrees at their own discretion to viewing the thread and partaking in the discussion, then the community has no fault and it rests entirely on the user. If a user doesn't want to be involved in those discussions, don't go to those threads and don't agree to the statement before being able to view the thread.

Seems like a common ground.

 

[antemortem]

I like Ace's last suggestion, though I cringe in the forethought of people ~13-15 coming in with their totally off-kilter posts. Then again, I don't want to generalize the populace so I could live with it.

 

[Mana1]

I still don't get what else is being added here. Mature warnings on existing threads is one thing but I disagree with what people seem to be implying that such a tag would allow for more extreme mature topics to be posted here.

 

[Zeffy]

I would like to point out that in three pages worth of posts, no one has clearly defined what one should consider to be a "mature" topic. Vague definitions, yes, but if PC were to apply such a feature, a more concise and straightforward guideline should be followed. Shame on you if you think that one should leave such decisions to moderator discretion.

 

[Nick]

I think people are greeeaaatly exaggerating the T-Dome. I've seen it since they've archived it, and it wasn't nearly as bad as what people are making it out to be.

Also, I don't really know what will classify as more mature either in this case, so there's that. I enjoy the thought of promoting more mature discussion, but I do recognize the fact that we already permit heated topics like sex and religion as it is. Its just rare to see those types of discussions these days.

 

[Kanzler]

I think it would be a better idea for "mature" topics to be on a section of their own, not mixed in with the rest of D&D and CCC. D&D because I believe nothing that would otherwise belong in D&D is too mature for D&D - if that was so I'd imagine it's just people discussing controversy for the sake of sounding controversial which is besides the point of D&D to begin with. CCC also has a vibe of "here's a topic and lemme talk about myself" that isn't the flavour we're getting at here.

You can think of this hypothetical section we're discussing as the smoker's room. It's the only place where you /can/ post mature topics whatever they happen to be, and enter at your own discretion. The mature topics are here only because there is nowhere else for them to go. Again, I think figuring out a portfolio of topics is the wrong way to go about it. It would be much more productive to think about it as a "vibe". You guys are right, strictly 18+ things would be things like gore and sexual practices and so on which wouldn't really fly - which begs the question, why would we want an 18+ section where we are limited to 18+ things? CCC is pretty rigid to me in terms of how structured it is: who, what, where, when, why - I did a, b, c, d, e - moves on to next thread.

Is this just, like, suggesting the mod hangout but for everybody? I'm not sure I understand.

This is taken from that other thread about an "other" section, but I think the suggestion is relevant here. It's a more open environment, and it's frankly a lot more interesting because of that. So to recap, I don't think of it as a section /for/ 18+, it's a section which includes 18+ due to a freer, less structured, environment.

 

[Squirrel]

I'm really confused after reading this all - people are only discussing how to get around the age restriction point but not on what the topics will actually be? Like Peter said a few posts up, what topics would be posted in the 18+ format that wouldn't be totally obscene? Literally all I can think of that would fit in an 18+ section and won't fit anywhere else is a thread dedicated to discussing rape, and even that could be made in the discussions forum with some warning. Threads about sex and worse could obviously be made, but why would anyone want those on a forum like PC? I just fail to see the point of this addition - it strikes me as entirely unnecessary and as something that would only promote people 'pushing the limits' on the rest of the forum if it's shown to be okay in one section.

 

[Outlier]

Why on earth would anyone make a thread about rape? Some of you sound like Nancy Grace with all of this fear mongering. I don't know for sure what kinds of threads would be made in a section like this but I'd like to trust our community more than that. Jesus Christ.

 

[Squirrel]

Why on earth would anyone make a thread about rape? Some of you sound like Nancy Grace with all of this fear mongering. I don't know for sure what kinds of threads would be made in a section like this but I'd like to trust our community more than that. Jesus Christ.

I didn't mean it in that way, I meant the only topics that could be covered by an 18+ section and no others would be to do with serious/obscene subjects such as that, and there's literally no need for this content on a forum like PC (or most other forums I'd say?). Certain things are 18+ for a reason, and your reaction just then was a perfect example of why. Considering no one can think of any ideas for topics for this section, and the only topic ideas that have been mentioned have all been turned down instantly or would be fine in the debates section, I don't think that's a good sign for its purpose ending up the way you're hoping.

People would be a lot more open to your idea if you can give some ideas for topics and discussions that'd happen in an 18+ section that wouldn't happen elsewhere, and I'd personally be very interested to see what you come up with. If there's reasonable content to put there that has a place on PC then by all means go ahead with the section, but right now the idea just doesn't have any force or reasoning behind it other than "we have mature members". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea could use some brainstorming before being considered and that's not turning out fruitful so far.