Suggestion: 18+ Members Section

[Outlier]

I've given a few examples but like I said the main appeal of this section to me at least would be the vibe. It's hard to put into words but I liken it to a conversation you would have if it were just you and your friends then compare it to how you would talk if your younger brother or sister were listening in. That's not a knock on our younger members because a lot of them are very smart and mature and a couple of them are good friends of mine. But there'd be an undeniably different vibe in a section like this. Some of you don't think that alone warrants making a new section and I respect your opinion. I just wish that so many people weren't using taboo content as a reason for not creating a section exclusively for people 18 years and older.

A more mature version of the chit chat cafe shouldn't open up the floodgates for nothing but mindless smut. If this section were to become just that then feel free to come up to me and say I told ya so, but we're never going to know unless it's given a fair chance.

I'm just repeating myself at this point and so are many of you so I'm just going to quote BlahISuck whom I think said it best on page 2 of this thread.

Discussion is good, but "enforced" discussion to me seems fundamentally flawed - it takes away from the spontaneity. Ideally, I have nothing against this forum if it can be done right.

Going back to my point about "if it can be done right", we'll be needing some high-quality, heavy-duty mods in charge of the area. Under-policing it can cause us a lot of pain, but over-policing it will kill its purpose in the first place and make it redundant next to the CCC. So not only will we need people with good judgement, but also people open to this kind of discussion. That's a practical issue we have to think about: do we have the personnel capable of running such a section?

I don't think we should think too hard about a mandate of topics for the section, especially since its purpose is to reach a certain vibe and not necessarily to talk about certain things. Given my understanding of the memberbase as I've experienced it, I'm sure the discussion will come.

I just wish that you guys weren't so adamant against the concept of this section actually working. It could go wrong but I've seen this kind of thing work on other forums before including one that was predominately considered family friendly.

I'm just worried that if this section were given the green light we'd be receiving various complaints and reports from people who just want to see the section die without giving it a fair chance.

 

[Maruno]

...I've seen this kind of thing work on other forums before including one that was predominately considered family friendly.

You're welcome to go to those forums to make mature posts, then.

PokéCommunity has managed just fine without an 18+ section/posts until now, and I really don't think they're needed here. My strong opinion is that a Pokémon forum doesn't need a place to talk about sex (which is pretty much the only topic that'll actually be talked about in a "mature" section anyway, no matter what other subjects you can name). It doesn't matter how mature you say other members are, this is a PG13 forum, and it's only rated that high because of COPPA. It's just not necessary, and as Blah said an awful pain to moderate and keep the proper side of puerile.

 

[Outlier]

You're welcome to go to those forums to make mature posts, then.

PokéCommunity has managed just fine without an 18+ section/posts until now, and I really don't think they're needed here. My strong opinion is that a Pokémon forum doesn't need a place to talk about sex (which is pretty much the only topic that'll actually be talked about in a "mature" section anyway, no matter what other subjects you can name). It doesn't matter how mature you say other members are, this is a PG13 forum, and it's only rated that high because of COPPA. It's just not necessary, and as Blah said an awful pain to moderate and keep the proper side of puerile.

It's not just about the freedom to post about 18+ content. I'm suggesting this section on this particular forum because I've grown attached to the community at PC and think this would be a cool addition to the site as we have a lot of older members here. The kids who got into Pokemon when it first came out are now adults. So why not cater to us older members also?

 

[Nick]

I think people will be more receptive to this suggestion after 18+ content is actually defined. Only sex has really been discussed, and since we already allow sexual discussion here, I can sort of see the impression some people are getting that it would be full of -- intolerable for some -- profanity that really does have no place on a Pokémon forum.

Once that's really defined, I think it would be a lot more clear.

 

[Maruno]

It's not just about the freedom to post about 18+ content. I'm suggesting this section on this particular forum because I've grown attached to the community at PC and think this would be a cool addition to the site as we have a lot of older members here. The kids who got into Pokemon when it first came out are now adults. So why not cater to us older members also?

If there are members here who have grown up, and they're still here, then they're already being catered to with whatever this forum has already had to offer over the years. It has to be said that you are not one of those members.

I'll admit to skimming through this thread. How many people have expressed an actual desire for such an addition? And how many have just gone with the flow or don't have an opinion or want more details before they decide?

 

[Outlier]

If there are members here who have grown up, and they're still here, then they're already being catered to with whatever this forum has already had to offer over the years. It has to be said that you are not one of those members.

Haha wow. I don't remember asking for special treatment. I was just suggesting a section for ALL our older members, and out of those older members only those who were willing and interested would have to post there. I wanted to able to discuss things in an environment where I didn't have to worry about younger members possibly being exposed to inappropriate content as that does tend to be what older people talk about among themselves, not exclusively but that's undeniably a part of it. I wasn't trying to convert the whole forum into a giant cesspool of drugs, sex and rock and roll. You don't need to treat my like a ****ing degenerate outcast because you're not comfortable with my suggestion.

 

[Sydian]

Pro tip: That kind of attitude will likely not help your case.

 

[Ivysaur]

Ahem.

Some threads from the T-Dome, aka our former +18 section:

Creation vs Evolution
Government shouldn't collide with religion.
Cloning
Song mocking tsunami victims
Michael Jackson trial
Extraterrestrial beings, UFOs and conspiracy.
Which came first?The chicken or the Egg?
2004 Election
Sexual Preferences
24 Hours to Live, what would you do?
Masturbation

Essentially, I'm sure we have had all these threads in CCP/DD. All except "Masturbation", which happened to be the most active thread in the whole forum. By far. Very far.

The TDome had a reason to exist back then when Other Chat (which was CCP/DD combined) had a strict "no religion, no politics" rule because that was considered "mature". Nowadays, we are encouraging those threads because religion, politics, and even sexuality are things we all are aware of from a young age, not only after 18. And hell, UFOs aren't +18, no matter how many times you look at it. Tobacco? Drugs? We have had those threads in CCP and I'm fine as long as they are kept under mod control.

Seriously, the only topics we don't accept nowadays are explicit sex and explicit violence- and I'm not sure I want a board full of that. I'm even happy with making a +18 tag for threads about profanity but, again, those should be the minority.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I don't really see any point in an 18+ forum. All the site's I've seen have them, but they go inactive due to having other areas with more conversation, such as the DD and CCC sections we have. All I see are the more black areas over the line that would otherwise get you banned if posted in general areas.

If you want a section like that, its kinda pointless. Majority of what is wanted can be posted in the general discussions minus profanity. if they allow for 18+ threads profanity won't be an issue and only leaves the bannable material as not allowed.

I don't really see a point in making a new section and pulling roughly all the discussions over that could be deemed Mature, nor do I see a reason to make a thread that alienates other members due to a 5 year difference.

 

[Kanzler]

It doesn't matter how mature you say other members are, this is a PG13 forum, and it's only rated that high because of COPPA.

What does that mean? I've been reading this:

https://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

as well as

https://www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

.. and the requirements for compliance seems to be largely about data collection. I don't see much (if any, I'm not too confident of my ability to understand legal language) mentioning of having to comply with a certain kind of content.

 

[Nick]

What does that mean? I've been reading this:

https://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

as well as

https://www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

.. and the requirements for compliance seems to be largely about data collection. I don't see much (if any, I'm not too confident of my ability to understand legal language) mentioning of having to comply with a certain kind of content.

By collecting a user's email address, we're collecting data about them. In California, where our website is hosted (I believe, could be in Texas) and where the forum software comes from, COPPA restricts users under the age of 13 from having data collected about them on the internet. There's no way to know who lies about their age on the internet, but we enforce COPPA when it becomes known that someone is under the age of 13. If so, a user's parent/guardian has to contact us giving their permission for their child to be on the forums and for us to collect data (in this case, the email address). Because of that, we're a PG-13 forum.

 

[Kanzler]

By collecting a user's email address, we're collecting data about them. In California, where our website is hosted (I believe, could be in Texas) and where the forum software comes from, COPPA restricts users under the age of 13 from having data collected about them on the internet. There's no way to know who lies about their age on the internet, but we enforce COPPA when it becomes known that someone is under the age of 13. If so, a user's parent/guardian has to contact us giving their permission for their child to be on the forums and for us to collect data (in this case, the email address). Because of that, we're a PG-13 forum.

Neither what I read or what you said says nothing about having PG-13 content. It just talks about data collection and disclosure. When I think PG-13 I think content rating, but I don't see any reference to that in the law.

 

[Nick]

Its not really a content rating. It's just a generalization that's used now. I'm not sure where it originated, but because members aren't supposed to be below the age of 13 (or if they are, they have a parent or guardian supporting them being here), people say that we're PG-13.

 

[Kanzler]

Its not really a content rating. It's just a generalization that's used now. I'm not sure where it originated, but because members aren't supposed to be below the age of 13 (or if they are, they have a parent or guardian supporting them being here), people say that we're PG-13.

So if I'm reading you right, there isn't anything mandating us to achieve a PG-13 content rating, or catering to that "age group". The term merely refers to membership and how we collect/disclose personal information.

 

[Nick]

So if I'm reading you right, there isn't anything mandating us to achieve a PG-13 content rating, or catering to that "age group". The term merely refers to membership and how we collect/disclose personal information.

For the most part. Signatures are required to meet the standard PG-13 content rating, but a signature rule alone doesn't really dictate our rating as a community, I don't think.

 

[Golden Warrior]

So, after reading through about 2 pages of posts on this and seeing what the Admin himself posted I, too am convinced that one of these is not needed. Yeah, fine, you can look at my age and be like "It's obvious why he doesn't think one is necessary." But I honestly just thought I should contribute my opinion here.

On another forum I go to (FEShrine) we do have a "Maturity Domain" but it's not restricted to 18+ members and I've posted in it quite a bit myself. We've had topics ranging from politics to gay rights and I've never felt out of place and no one has ever said I was out of place. (Although the amount of times I've been called mature for my age is... it's a pretty high number.) People also posted about their personal lives and problems they were having, but it was still only called "mature" because you couldn't be unserious in the topics posted there. Maybe something like this could be made here, but I highly doubt people would go for that either, since the Chitchat Cafe can already act like this.

But, moreso, the reason I think one of these types of things is not necessary is because... well, what's mature anymore? The "worst" (I say this as others have different opinions on different topics) you could talk about is sex, rape, or other things that people would never talk about to begin with. Maybe this point is a bit weak, but it is a point nevertheless.

I am well aware this will get countered in various ways, but I will very likely hold true to what I'm saying now.

 

[Outlier]

Pro tip: That kind of attitude will likely not help your case.

I don't appreciate your "pro tip". You're the last person I'd seek advice from Everlark. My attitude? I didn't get defensive out of nowhere you know. I like how you try and imply that I'm the problem and conveniently skim over the fact that a mod practically told me that I'm not a part of this forum simply because he's not comfortable with my suggestion.

I don't really see any point in an 18+ forum. All the site's I've seen have them, but they go inactive due to having other areas with more conversation, such as the DD and CCC sections we have. All I see are the more black areas over the line that would otherwise get you banned if posted in general areas.

If you want a section like that, its kinda pointless. Majority of what is wanted can be posted in the general discussions minus profanity. if they allow for 18+ threads profanity won't be an issue and only leaves the bannable material as not allowed.

I don't really see a point in making a new section and pulling roughly all the discussions over that could be deemed Mature, nor do I see a reason to make a thread that alienates other members due to a 5 year difference.

This thread was NOT created to alienate anyone. More passive aggressive attempts to make me look like the bad guy. Like I said on the first page, is it discrimination to prevent minors from smoking cigarettes? Or to hold certain features and sections of this forum to members who donate money?

If there are members here who have grown up, and they're still here, then they're already being catered to with whatever this forum has already had to offer over the years. It has to be said that you are not one of those members.

^ I was completely rational up until this post. But keep portraying me as the bad guy, I now know what an easy target I am for the staff here.

And before anyone says I interpreted what he said the wrong way here's his first response to me for simply saying that I've seen sections like this work on other forums before.

You're welcome to go to those forums to make mature posts, then.

I wasn't threatening to leave, but I can read between the lines.

 

[Star-Lord]

As weird as this sounds I think people should also think of the stigma that will come attached to having a categorized "18 +" forum. Most people aren't going to think it's labeled as that age for a maturity thing. 18 is associated with being legally able to do adult things, which means that people are most likely going to assume that there's either a) pornography or b) other sorts of really sexually explicit discussion going on there. I mean obviously it's against the rules and wouldn't happen but people will see the prefix and jump to conclusions without having a real investigation.

all in all I think people worry too much over "people not being able to handle mature topics". I think it's honestly a non-issue and that people just need to realize that yeah, there are dumb people on the internet. If they say something dumb in a ~mature thread~ just report the post and move on.

 

[Sydian]

I don't appreciate your "pro tip". You're the last person I'd seek advice from Everlark. My attitude? I didn't get defensive out of nowhere you know. I like how you try and imply that I'm the problem and conveniently skim over the fact that a mod practically told me that I'm not a part of this forum simply because he's not comfortable with my suggestion.

I never said you were the problem, but I'm saying that if you want to advocate for this kind of forum, replying to Maruno in that way was completely unnecessary.

That being said though, I feel that you misunderstood Maruno's post. He was referring to older members that have been here a long time. For example, someone who is currently 22 who joined in 2007 that is still active. I don't know how old you are, but you haven't been around that long. You missed his point is what I'm saying, and there was no need to blow up at him, or myself.

Again, you're just going to ruin the chances for your case. You want a mature forum? Act mature.

 

[Nick]

If we can't even discuss the notion of adding a mature forum without getting into inappropriate arguments over how other posts were interpreted then I don't see a mature form popping up in the horizon any time soon.

Some people here are so over sensitive.