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America becoming more fascist?

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  • The state of Arizona is currently attempting to make protesting - something protected by the 1st Amendment's guarantee of free speech - illegal by way of intimidation. If they, that is, Republicans in the state legislature, get their way you could become the target of asset forfeiture laws if you are in any way associated with a protest in which violence occurs. What that means is, the police would be able to take your property and keep it permanently if someone else, even someone you've never met, even someone who could theoretically be a provocateur sent by the police, even if you have not committed any crime, if just one person present at a protest you participate in gets violent. They're attempting to do this through a re-tooling of rico laws (the ones made to fight organized crime) and redefining the legal definition of a riot.

    This coming from the so-called party of small government.

    You may say this is just an outlier, one state out of 50, but there have been other attempts in other states to curtail the rights to protest, including ones that would allow people to run over protesters with their vehicles with no repercussions. There are more than enough examples of attempts to cut back the rights of people to speak or criticize the government. Take the recent banning of major news outlets from White House briefings - conveniently just ones which have been critical of Trump. But I guess that's okay when you're an "enemy of the state."

    Is this a trend? Are people aware of it? Worried? Do people not even see the problem with these proposed laws? Was America always this way, under its skin, and only now showing it?
     
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  • Let's do a quick check.

    PqsjkhR.png


    The US Government:
    1. Right-Wing [x]
    2. Unfairly targets immigrants with unjust laws [x]
    3. Creates propaganda directed at certain races and religions [x]
    4. That propaganda is rarely if ever based on factual information [x]
    5. Suppresses or tries to discredit any media outlet that opposes the regime [x]
    6. Bypasses the democratic process [x]
    7. Violates the constitution and the rights of its citizens as well as non-citizens [x]
    8. Heavily armed police force that disproportionately targets certain ethnicities. [x]

    Yes the US is becoming progressively more fascist. Some of this was already underway or on the cards before Trump though, so it can't all be blamed on him. He's just taken a lot of the undertones that have been present for a long time, made them public and taken them up to eleven.
     
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  • I believe that calling the current administration and Trump "fascist" is not an effective criticism. If it was, he wouldn't have been elected in the first place.
     
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  • I believe that calling the current administration and Trump "fascist" is not an effective criticism. If it was, he wouldn't have been elected in the first place.

    It's perfectly possible to democratically elect a leader who then transitions the government to fascism. It's happened multiple times throughout history. It's in every way a valid criticism.
     
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  • gimmepie said:
    It's perfectly possible to democratically elect a leader who then transitions the government to fascism. It's happened multiple times throughout history. It's in every way a valid criticism.
    I meant that media has been calling him that during the general election to discredit him, which obviously did not work.

    I'll start to believe the "fascist", "literally hitler" claims when he starts to actually shut down news outlets (shut down as in, cease for them to exist) and send minorities into concentration camps.
     
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  • I meant that media has been calling him that during the general election to discredit him, which obviously did not work. And using your logic, technically any democratically elected leader can transition the government into any form that he/she wishes.

    I mean, he lost the popular vote by a fair way. So clearly plenty of people believe there's at least a shred of truth there. You're not incorrect about that last part, technically speaking any democratically elected leader could potentially do that. It does help that the US was laying the groundwork a long time ago though.

    I'll start to believe the "fascist", "literally hitler" claims when he starts to actually shut down news outlets (shut down as in, cease for them to exist) and send minorities into concentration camps.

    I wouldn't go as far as "literally Hitler" but you'd have to be in complete denial to suggest he's not displaying some alarmingly fascist, or at least fascist-like, tendencies.
     
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  • I mean, he lost the popular vote by a fair way. So clearly plenty of people believe there's at least a shred of truth there. You're not incorrect about that last part, technically speaking any democratically elected leader could potentially do that. It does help that the US was laying the groundwork a long time ago though.

    I wouldn't go as far as "literally Hitler" but you'd have to be in complete denial to suggest he's not displaying some alarmingly fascist, or at least fascist-like, tendencies.
    I deleted the last part because I didn't think I was going anywhere with that argument. And popular vote does not matter in the outcome of the presidential election but that's an entirely different argument.

    He's admittedly showed some degree of authoritarianism but it's not even close to being nearly enough to make me worry about a change of government. To put it another way, I'm as much worried about Trump turning America into a fascist state as Sanders would have turned America into a communist state if he was elected.
     
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  • I deleted the last part because I didn't think I was going anywhere with that argument. And popular vote does not matter in the outcome of the presidential election but that's an entirely different argument.

    He's admittedly showed some degree of authoritarianism but it's not even close to being nearly enough to make me worry about a change of government. To put it another way, I'm as much worried about Trump turning America into a fascist state as Sanders would have turned America into a communist state if he was elected.

    Whether or not you're worried about it is pretty irrelevant. The question at hand is "is the US becoming more fascist and the answer to that question is yes.
     
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  • I mean, he lost the popular vote by a fair way. So clearly plenty of people believe there's at least a shred of truth there.
    I'm going to go on a limb here and say that you don't particularly understand how the Electoral College is supposed to work. For example, if Aeroblast and I were states with a population of a combined total of 120,000 people (we're fly over states, I assure you) and you (being a state yourself) have a total population of 3,030,00. If only 20% your citizens voted, while over 80% of our (Aeroblast and I) citizens voted, there is no possible way we'd win the popular vote. And you, being only one state, gets to decide what Aeroblast and I do despite the fact that our land mass and industries vary wildly from yours. Is that fair to you? That is the mark of a pure democracy, something the founding fathers were very much against:

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: "From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.
    - Alexander Fraser Tytler

    We need both the Electoral College and the Popular vote. Clinton wasted time campaigning in California, while Trump knew he wouldn't have a chance in hell to win California and went to campaign elsewhere while she wasted time and money. I think that's one of the reasons why she lost. The systems we have in place are used to balance each other, otherwise New York and California could potentially decide what the country does, regardless of what every other state believes.

    Popular Vote < County < State < Electoral College < Presidency

    Votes actually do matter, but on a county/state basis. It isn't a macro system and it never should be.

    My short answer for fascism is no. I'm actually seeing more fascist behaviour from the left than I am from the right.
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
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  • Let's do a quick check.

    PqsjkhR.png


    The US Government:
    1. Right-Wing [x]
    2. Unfairly targets immigrants with unjust laws [x]
    3. Creates propaganda directed at certain races and religions [x]
    4. That propaganda is rarely if ever based on factual information [x]
    5. Suppresses or tries to discredit any media outlet that opposes the regime [x]
    6. Bypasses the democratic process [x]
    7. Violates the constitution and the rights of its citizens as well as non-citizens [x]
    8. Heavily armed police force that disproportionately targets certain ethnicities. [x]

    Yes the US is becoming progressively more fascist. Some of this was already underway or on the cards before Trump though, so it can't all be blamed on him. He's just taken a lot of the undertones that have been present for a long time, made them public and taken them up to eleven.

    Define right-wing. Socially? Economically? Im going to assume socially because Hitler's economic policies were far from right-wing and rest in the center, maybe slightly left at center. Fascism often entails the combination of the government and big business, which the opposite of a free market or lightly regulated capitalism. That is just one example, but there are many more.

    Assuming all of these criticisms are true and factual, these are all top-down occurrences unique to the Trump administration. I am also going to assume socially right-wing. You yourself argue that laws will reflect the general culture (I would tend to agree with some differences) and the US population isn't even close at all to cultural fascism. Not in the slightest. The culture is too consumerist, liberal, modernist, etc to be anywhere close to culturally fascists. And the conservatives that voted for Trump weren't voting for socially conservative policies (other than anti-abortion), but rather to vote Hillary out. Trump's blue collar voters believed his rhetoric on the jobs being shipped over seas (in reality the great majority are being taken - not by immigrants or China - but by machines). The Alt-Right is the only thing that can be close or is cultural fascism. Considering half the country hates them and the other half either hates or tolerates them, I wouldnt consider them large or influential enough to call the US culturally fascist.

    Other things that may count are the public's increasing distrust of mainstream media. Trump dislikes the mainstream media, but he doesnt want to nationalize the media. It is fascistic to both silence certain media and nationalize and/or create state-run media.

    More people wanting border security to keep out illegal immigrants is not culturally fascist either. Most of these people just want those illegal immigrants to apply for legal citizenship.
     
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  • Would someone who doesn't think America is going down a fascist/autocratic path address the issue of the attempt to stop people from protesting? Like, how does that jive with your view of America being a democracy?

    For example, if Aeroblast and I were states with a population of a combined total of 120,000 people (we're fly over states, I assure you) and you (being a state yourself) have a total population of 3,030,00. If only 20% your citizens voted, while over 80% of our (Aeroblast and I) citizens voted, there is no possible way we'd win the popular vote. And you, being only one state, gets to decide what Aeroblast and I do despite the fact that our land mass and industries vary wildly from yours. Is that fair to you? That is the mark of a pure democracy, something the founding fathers were very much against:

    Just following on this example, if the State of Gimmepie were to split into two states of equal population would that be better for you and would you accept it as more democratic?
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
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  • Would someone who doesn't think America is going down a fascist/autocratic path address the issue of the attempt to stop people from protesting? Like, how does that jive with your view of America being a democracy?



    Just following on this example, if the State of Gimmepie were to split into two states of equal population would that be better for you and would you accept it as more democratic?

    Available resources, industry, land, culture etc. would still vary. Not to put put words into his mouth, but I doubt that the states having the same population makes a large enough difference because each state is so differently it is hardly fair (not does it make sense) that one state could ever make decisions for other states.
     

    Alex

    what will it be next?
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    I think it's a bit short-sighted to be calling America fascist in its current state. It's like the right wing crying communism when socialist legislation is introduced. Yes, there are authoritarian tendencies coming out of the government. You can certainly draw parallels between authoritarian regimes and fascist ones. But America hasn't gone full Mussolini yet. Don't jump the gun with these outlandish statements. It makes the left look a little lunatic - in the same way we roll our eyes at the cry of communism when trying to introduce government subsidized healthcare and education.
     
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  • Available resources, industry, land, culture etc. would still vary. Not to put put words into his mouth, but I doubt that the states having the same population makes a large enough difference because each state is so differently it is hardly fair (not does it make sense) that one state could ever make decisions for other states.

    Not to get off topic, but what is the optimal size/population then for a government or state so that it is not infringing on another? Because if one state shouldn't make decisions for another then why should one city, or even one individual?
     
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  • I don't claim to be an expert, but I get the general idea behind the electoral college system. I just disagree with it because it misrepresents the will of the people and allows for people who haven't actually won the majority vote to somehow lead a democratic nation. You can make any arguments you like about populations and landmasses, but as far as I'm concerned it's undemocratic no matter how you justify it.

    On a related note, it's literally impossible to be left wing and fascist. Right wing is literally a part of the definition. You can be left wing and authoritarian/totalitarian, but not fascist.

    Define right-wing. Socially? Economically? Im going to assume socially because Hitler's economic policies were far from right-wing and rest in the center, maybe slightly left at center. Fascism often entails the combination of the government and big business, which the opposite of a free market or lightly regulated capitalism. That is just one example, but there are many more.

    Considering the republican party is both, I don't think it really matters. As a general rule though, I think it talks more about the social side than the economic.

    Assuming all of these criticisms are true and factual, these are all top-down occurrences unique to the Trump administration. I am also going to assume socially right-wing. You yourself argue that laws will reflect the general culture (I would tend to agree with some differences) and the US population isn't even close at all to cultural fascism. Not in the slightest. The culture is too consumerist, liberal, modernist, etc to be anywhere close to culturally fascists. And the conservatives that voted for Trump weren't voting for socially conservative policies (other than anti-abortion), but rather to vote Hillary out. Trump's blue collar voters believed his rhetoric on the jobs being shipped over seas (in reality the great majority are being taken - not by immigrants or China - but by machines). The Alt-Right is the only thing that can be close or is cultural fascism. Considering half the country hates them and the other half either hates or tolerates them, I wouldnt consider them large or influential enough to call the US culturally fascist.

    I wouldn't go as far as saying that the US is culturally fascist or even that it is currently lead by a completely fascist government. However there have been vaguely fascist elements to US government practices for a while (the patriot act for example) and those elements are a lot less vague with the Trump administration in power, bearing in mind that Trump has openly praised corrupt and overly authoritarian leaders too.

    Yes, those things are all true and factual. At least I've not come across any legitimate evidence to the contrary.

    Other things that may count are the public's increasing distrust of mainstream media. Trump dislikes the mainstream media, but he doesnt want to nationalize the media. It is fascistic to both silence certain media and nationalize and/or create state-run media.

    Trump doesn't like any media outlet that reports the actual facts about his administration. He goes out of his way to suppress and discredit any media outlet that says anything about his administration that doesn't buy into his narrative or express praise. I'd say it's really not that big of a jump from that to total control of the media, the former is just easier to do.

    More people wanting border security to keep out illegal immigrants is not culturally fascist either. Most of these people just want those illegal immigrants to apply for legal citizenship.

    Of course not. Although there's definitely subsets of that group that are leaning towards the fascist side.

    Don't mistake me, I don't think anyone here is saying that the US is currently under the thrall of a fascist government. I'm saying that you're currently democratic government is growing more and more fascist elements and is currently under the leadership of a man who would very much like to be a totalitarian dictator like his idols.
     

    Hands

    I was saying Boo-urns
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    I meant that media has been calling him that during the general election to discredit him, which obviously did not work.

    I'll start to believe the "fascist", "literally hitler" claims when he starts to actually shut down news outlets (shut down as in, cease for them to exist) and send minorities into concentration camps.

    Woah, you don't have to actually commit another holocaust to be Fascist. Trump is closer to Mussolini than Hitler. Trump also isn't exactly the problem, though he is to blame for being a massive exasperation of it.
     
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  • I don't claim to be an expert, but I get the general idea behind the electoral college system. I just disagree with it because it misrepresents the will of the people and allows for people who haven't actually won the majority vote to somehow lead a democratic nation. You can make any arguments you like about populations and landmasses, but as far as I'm concerned it's undemocratic no matter how you justify it.

    On a related note, it's literally impossible to be left wing and fascist. Right wing is literally a part of the definition. You can be left wing and authoritarian/totalitarian, but not fascist.
    First off, the United States of America is not a Democracy, it's not. It's mainly a two party system, with the ability for other parties to sprout up. The Electoral College isn't setup to be Democratic and by design checks the Democratic process. Without it, California and New York would potentially be able to control the United States, which isn't the way our system works.

    California is a failing state, in my opinion. They're near dead last in education and home to the countries three largest gangs due to poor management and resource distribution. They have the second highest sales tax in the union along with high property taxes. They house two of the world's largest industries, being both pornography and Film and yet they can't seem to gain on any of it. California is not a state I would like preaching to me if I had a choice. They're like your broke and shady uncle talking about his next hair-brained money making scheme. . .

    It's actually not 'impossible' to be Left and Fascist, because that's what it is 'Far-Right of the Left-Right' spectrum which means it dips left first, then right not the other way 'round. Nazis were fascists, I'm sure we all agree, but good boy Adolf was actually a socialist. The name kind of gives it away: NAZI} National Socialist German Worker's Party. Hitler rose to power utilizing a broken Democratic system, enabling the masses to control the minority once installed. Hitler has pretty much always been more associated with Democrats than he has been with Republicans; let me explain, Hitler's policies involving Jobs, Abortion, Education, Health Care, Gun Control and blaming the 1% (Jews) smack of leftist control policy.

    Hitler supported abortion. Surely, if Republicans are against Abortion then that would make them 'literally Hitler'? Not that you make the 'LH' argument, but others do and it's laughable. *Read in a Texas accent "Abortion ain't ri'aigh-TUH! Against the wur-duh Gawd, yis it is!" - Republican somewhere in Backwater USA

    Adolf and Gun Control. Turn in your guns. All your guns. Other than Australia and Piers Morgan I haven't heard much about turning guns in. So, if the Jewish citizens hadn't turned their guns in then they'd be able to shoot at the Nazi party, yeah? Find me a Republican that says we should turn in our firearms and I'll show you a Democrat. Gun Control is good in certain aspects though, don't get me wrong, but criminals will always be able to get guns. Look at Japan and the UK. If not having guns is the law then how can there still be firearm related deaths? If you don't agree that criminals can't get guns then I don't know what to tell you other than that belief is wrong (unless you don't subscribe to that belief, then the last couple points of mine are moot)

    Hitler wanted the Jews to pay for 'what they've done' either by forced labour or by the gold in their teeth. 'They lost' the Great War and in essence sent Germany down the path of 'ultra debt'. Or at least, that's what they believe. I actually don't believe that it's individuals that cause all our lack of tax funding, but rather a vast majority of companies don't pay income tax because 'they're not people'. Another argument for another day.

    Considering the republican party is both, I don't think it really matters. As a general rule though, I think it talks more about the social side than the economic.

    I wouldn't go as far as saying that the US is culturally fascist or even that it is currently lead by a completely fascist government. However there have been vaguely fascist elements to US government practices for a while (the patriot act for example) and those elements are a lot less vague with the Trump administration in power, bearing in mind that Trump has openly praised corrupt and overly authoritarian leaders too.

    Yes, those things are all true and factual. At least I've not come across any legitimate evidence to the contrary.
    If we're boiling down to semantics then I suppose we can utilize Italy's and Germany's policies as a basis for what is actually fascism and like above, they more align with the left than the right.
    Trump doesn't like any media outlet that reports the actual facts about his administration. He goes out of his way to suppress and discredit any media outlet that says anything about his administration that doesn't buy into his narrative or express praise. I'd say it's really not that big of a jump from that to total control of the media, the former is just easier to do.
    So far this falls into the CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WP and a few others. All of which are largely discredited. Running with stories from Buzzfeed that originated from 4chan earn you a spot in the bin. The Washington Post, if I recall correctly, are the ones that started the fake news debacle and it blew up in their face. Not to mention memes. Pepe the frog is now a white supremacist hate symbol. This is news apparently.


    Would someone who doesn't think America is going down a fascist/autocratic path address the issue of the attempt to stop people from protesting? Like, how does that jive with your view of America being a democracy?

    Just following on this example, if the State of Gimmepie were to split into two states of equal population would that be better for you and would you accept it as more democratic?
    I don't think I follow. So, for your example, we'll take either Texas or California because both states have threatened to secede from the union (although Texas actually has full capability to do so due to some funny money law back in the day).

    Texas, as we all know, are full of gun toting, cheeseburger swallowing, ten gallon hat wearing cowboys that hate everybody that isn't white (stereotypical view but it'll help prove a point), now if we split all those cowboys into seven different states does that change the opinions of the cowboys? Not only that, but each state gets house seats depending on Population size. Alaska and Texas, while both larger than California in land mass don't get nearly half as many seats as California. Just because you shuffle lines around on a map doesn't change the population and geographical differences so not much would change, given your expansion of my example, if we look at the entire united states as a whole, it wouldn't make too much of a difference. California and friends (whatever states they hypothetically split into) would still receive a collective 55 seats. If your group of ten friends all run and hide to play 'hide and go seek', are they still your friends even though you're not together?

    A pure Democracy is a faulty system, so if anything I'd be against getting closer to it, it'd again have to be balanced with other such checks before it becomes feasible. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that can go get their friends to tell you how wrong you are (splitting states and votes). Taking away any part of our current system without injecting something else to check it in place then you open the door to . . . I don't know . . . DOOM apparently. Besides, I thought that the majority of the country is 'racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, islamaphobic, anti-muslim, you name it' so would the 'racist' majority vote eclipse the 'reasonable' minorities that light campuses on fire because they don't want to hear a speech on cultural appropriation?

    If anything, the left has lost more believers because of their behaviours over the past year or so, so would you really be willing to throw those dice when you have a 6+ armour save? You'd basically place your fate in the hands of the majority in either case so it's really up for you to decide if you want that to happen, because if you're wrong once, that's it. You're done voting, because of the 'entrenching' rule being that the majority can uproot the other parties and rule through power regardless if they're no longer the majority. It's what Hitler did . . . shrug.
     
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  • I took the post I quoted as saying, paraphrasing, "two small (population) states shouldn't be at the mercy of a larger (population) state."

    I've always gathered that people who advocate for states' rights take the view that a state is the ideal size of government and no higher/more centralized form of government should have authority over them (generally speaking).

    I was asking then, that suppose a large state, let's use California broke in two (or more, I guess) smaller states and didn't really change politically or anything significant. Would that then mean it would be more acceptable from a "states' rights" viewpoint that they still had (collectively) a larger population total when it comes to voting? Should they then be allowed more representation in Congress since they are now more states?
     
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  • First off, the United States of America is not a Democracy, it's not. It's mainly a two party system, with the ability for other parties to sprout up. The Electoral College isn't setup to be Democratic and by design checks the Democratic process. Without it, California and New York would potentially be able to control the United States, which isn't the way our system works.

    Yes... yes it is. Any system in which you vote for your leadership is a democracy. More specifically for the US, it's a representative democracy. You are voting in representatives to make decisions. It's not a pure/direct democracy because direct democracy on a national scale is horseshit and doesn't work. It's still a democracy though.

    The fact the electoral college is set up to "check" the democratic process is literally the reason it is broken. It means you can have the majority of the country being lead by a person/party they didn't elect. It's the sort of system that encourages distrust/dissatisfaction with the government and political violence. There is a reason electoral colleges are not that common. I don't understand how someone from the country that is known for preaching the value of a free people, is okay with most of those people being lead by someone they don't want to follow.


    It's actually not 'impossible' to be Left and Fascist, because that's what it is 'Far-Right of the Left-Right' spectrum which means it dips left first, then right not the other way 'round. Nazis were fascists, I'm sure we all agree, but good boy Adolf was actually a socialist. The name kind of gives it away: NAZI} National Socialist German Worker's Party. Hitler rose to power utilizing a broken Democratic system, enabling the masses to control the minority once installed. Hitler has pretty much always been more associated with Democrats than he has been with Republicans; let me explain, Hitler's policies involving Jobs, Abortion, Education, Health Care, Gun Control and blaming the 1% (Jews) smack of leftist control policy.

    Nope, it's literally impossible to be left and fascist, especially when talking socially. That's probably why right-wing is part of the definition. The Nazi party might have begun socialist and were still fairly left economically in the end, but socially they were extremely right. That balances out to Hitler generally being a few squares right of the center on the political compass. There is a reason Hitler is to the right on every incarnation of the political compass and it's not because he's left-wing. Here's a helpful diagram.

    77ee9445eccfa0935b142530ec45ba22.jpg


    Not perfect, but reasonably accurate.

    Hitler supported abortion. Surely, if Republicans are against Abortion then that would make them 'literally Hitler'? Not that you make the 'LH' argument, but others do and it's laughable. *Read in a Texas accent "Abortion ain't ri'aigh-TUH! Against the wur-duh Gawd, yis it is!" - Republican somewhere in Backwater USA

    If I'm not making that argument I see no reason to bring it up.

    Adolf and Gun Control. Turn in your guns. All your guns. Other than Australia and Piers Morgan I haven't heard much about turning guns in. So, if the Jewish citizens hadn't turned their guns in then they'd be able to shoot at the Nazi party, yeah? Find me a Republican that says we should turn in our firearms and I'll show you a Democrat. Gun Control is good in certain aspects though, don't get me wrong, but criminals will always be able to get guns. Look at Japan and the UK. If not having guns is the law then how can there still be firearm related deaths? If you don't agree that criminals can't get guns then I don't know what to tell you other than that belief is wrong (unless you don't subscribe to that belief, then the last couple points of mine are moot)

    I am not getting into the gun control debate here because it'll end up taking over the entire conversation and I'm not going to let this boil down to the one amendment the right in the US seem determined not to step on. Of course, it maybe helps that doing that gives them sway over a powerful lobbying group and that it's an outdated amendment that kind of forgets things like tanks and drones.

    Hitler wanted the Jews to pay for 'what they've done' either by forced labour or by the gold in their teeth. 'They lost' the Great War and in essence sent Germany down the path of 'ultra debt'. Or at least, that's what they believe. I actually don't believe that it's individuals that cause all our lack of tax funding, but rather a vast majority of companies don't pay income tax because 'they're not people'. Another argument for another day.

    That's surprisingly leftist of you.

    If we're boiling down to semantics then I suppose we can utilize Italy's and Germany's policies as a basis for what is actually fascism and like above, they more align with the left than the right.

    If we're talking semantics right-wing is still literally in the definition of the word fascism... not to mention both Italy and Germany were socially right wing in their fascist days.

    So far this falls into the CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WP and a few others. All of which are largely discredited. Running with stories from Buzzfeed that originated from 4chan earn you a spot in the bin. The Washington Post, if I recall correctly, are the ones that started the fake news debacle and it blew up in their face. Not to mention memes. Pepe the frog is now a white supremacist hate symbol. This is news apparently.

    I have to admit I'm not familiar with one of those initialisms but the CNN and New York Times are pretty reasonable as far as journalism goes. Washington Post... not so much but it's certainly no Breitbart. I don't see anything hugely wrong with reporting that a meme is being used as a hate symbol either. That actually is news and it's pretty useful information to know.
     

    Sir Codin

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    I think the best way to approach this is to really first try to find a clear concrete definition of what "FASCISM" even is:


    With regards to the political spectrum: it's best to look at the general philosophies of both "left-wing" and "right-wing."

    Left-wingers view the world in terms of oppressors vs the oppressed.
    Right-wingers view the word in terms of order vs chaos.

    Thus, on those two definitions alone, the right-wing is oft associated with authoritarianism as it is focused on absolute power to a single ruler or ruling class.

    However....:

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    This is just one of many interpretations of where ideologies lie on a two-scale spectrum

    Politics exists on a two-axis system, not just one: a social axis and an economic axis. It's possible to be economically right-wing and socially left-wing (libertarianism, classic liberalism) and it's possible to be economically left-wing and socially right-wing (Communism).

    With that being said, fascism's meaning has been debated to death and no one seems to know what exactly it means, but in general people tend to associate it with social authoritarianism (social right-wing).

    However, on the economic scale, things tend to get dicey. John T. Flynn, in studying Mussolini's Italy, described fascism as thus:

    1. Anti-capitalist, but with capitalist features
    2. Economic demand management...
    3....through budget deficits
    4. Direct economic planning, with partial economic autonomy through corporatism
    5. Militarism and imperialism (globalization has oft been criticized as being economic imperialism)
    6. Suspension of the rule of law

    Umberto Eco listed 14 characteristics of fascism:

    1. Traditionalist
    2. Anti-modernist
    3. Anti-intellectualism
    4. Anti-dissent, tendency of treating dissent as treason punishable by state law
    5. Xenophobia
    6. Appeals to the frustrations of the middle-class
    7. "Obsession with plot and appeals to xenophobia" or using propaganda to create a narrative that hamfistedly justifies how the dictator should remain in power ("Islamic terrorism" is a good modern example of an enemy a dictator could give, or if you want a classic: "Jews")

    8. Portraying enemies as being both too weak and too strong at the same time.
    9. Treating pacifism as trafficking with the enemy or propagating a mentality that constant warfare is for the good of the state and the people.
    10. Contempt for perceived "weaker societies"
    11. Hero-worshipping or the concept that those who are not heroes or true servants of the greater good for society are the ones who are afraid to give their lives for the state and the leader and the ideal.

    12. Obsession with ultra-masculnity and disdain for women, feminism, and homosexuality.
    13. "Selective populism"...everyone is a collective except for the leader.
    14. "Newspeak"...the leader employs limited vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning amongst the populace...goes hand in hand with anti-intellectualism.

    IT IS IMPORTANT, however, to take into consideration the political alignment of the definers: Eco I am not certain of, but Flynn was a right-winger.

    For more quick imputs:

    - Georgi Dimitrov, a Bulgarian communist, described fascism as "a dictatorship of the most reactionary elements of financial capitalism," which he argues in favor of fascism being an economic right-wing philosophy.

    - Benito Mussolini himself, had this to say in the Doctrine of Fascism: "Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State.......everything in the state, nothing against the State, nothing outside the state. Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people." This is an arguement that fascism is by definition at least socially authoritarian...socially right-wing.

    - Franklin D Roosevelt, 32nd president of the United States, stated: "The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power." His argument was that fascism was economically right-wing.

    - George Orwell, Shopkeepers at War: "Fascism, at any rate the German version, is a form of capitalism that borrows from Socialism just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes... It is a planned system geared to a definite purpose, world-conquest, and not allowing any private interest, either of capitalist or worker, to stand in its way."

    - Marxists in general define fascism as being: right-wing, nationalist, hierarchal, anti-equality, ultra-religious, capitalist, war-mongering, obsessed with voluntarist ideology, and anti-modernist.

    - Kevin Passmore: "Fascism is a set of ideologies and practices that seeks to place the nation, defined in exclusive biological, cultural, and/or historical terms, above all other sources of loyalty, and to create a mobilized national community. Fascist nationalism is reactionary in that it entails implacable hostility to socialism and feminism, for they are seen as prioritizing class or gender rather than nation. This is why fascism is a movement of the extreme right. Fascism is also a movement of the radical right because the defeat of socialism and feminism and the creation of the mobilized nation are held to depend upon the advent to power of a new elite acting in the name of the people, headed by a charismatic leader, and embodied in a mass, militarized party. Fascists are pushed towards conservatism by common hatred of socialism and feminism, but are prepared to override conservative interests - family, property, religion, the universities, the civil service - where the interests of the nation are considered to require it. Fascist radicalism also derives from a desire to assuage discontent by accepting specific demands of the labour and women's movements, so long as these demands accord with the national priority. Fascists seek to ensure the harmonization of workers' and women's interests with those of the nation by mobilizing them within special sections of the party and/or within a corporate system. Access to these organizations and to the benefits they confer upon members depends on the individual's national, political, and/or racial characteristics. All aspects of fascist policy are suffused with ultranationalism."

    - F.A. Hayek, a capitalist, wrote in The Road to Serfdom: "Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion." Hayek argues further, "Professor Werner Sombart in particular was hailed as a Marxist and was persecuted for his beliefs but later rejected internationalism and pacifism in favor of German militarism and nationalism...Western or English liberalism, which includes the ideas of freedom, community, and equality and rule by parliamentary democracy, is anathema in a true Germany, where power should belong to the whole, everyone is given his place, and one either obeys or commands. Oswald Spengler in his early writings advocated many of the ideas shared by German socialists at this time. Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, patron saint of national socialism, as Hayek calls him, claimed that World War I was a war between liberalism and socialism and that socialism lost. Like Plenge and Lensch, he saw national socialism as socialism adapted to the German character and undefiled by Western ideas of liberalism. Benito Mussolini's political origins are also socialist, being a leader in the PSI (Italian Socialist Party) before founding the first National Fascist Party."






    In conclusion, there are many conflicting definitions of "fascism" but at the very least most people seem to agree that it is socially authoritarian in nature, but has nebulous placings on the economic scale. The ultimate conclusion that most theorists have given is that it is somewhere on the right-wing in terms of economics, but people on all ends of the spectrum have used the term as a criticism of their opposition.

    Thus, the best that anyone can do is average it out based on philosophical and academic discussion, with the consensus that it is economically and socially right-wing, has nationalist tendencies, anti-dissent, and is an obsession with militarism.

    On these key topics, Trump ticks all the boxes: economic right-wing, his attitude towards immigration and "America first" has nationalist undertones (as does his supporters), his criticism of the judiciary and tendency towards absolute power through holding executive orders as the be-all-end-all of law has roots in social authoritarianism and anti-dissent, to say nothing of his disdain towards any media outlet not favorable towards him (which he publicly passes off as "fake news" in a manner bordering on propaganda), and Trump's plans to provide funding to the United States' already bloated military has roots in militarism.
     
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