Are we too soft?

[Her]

I'm a bit tired of this being such a frequent tangent in threads, so I think it is much more convenient to just divert such discussion into a single topic.

A common opinion is that we as a society (the society in question typically being the Western kind) are becoming too soft/babied/coddled/etc, particularly those of a younger age. Especially so when one goes online.
Do you agree with this? Do you disagree? Is there more to it than just the previous generation being out of touch with their offspring? What do you think?

 

[Biogoji]

This question was answered the second two privileged women went and complained to the UN about people hurting their feelings on the internet.

People bitch and whine about so much stupid shit these days from wanting a gender or sexuality that they made up five seconds ago to recognised to people claiming it's racist where news of Muslim terrorists are reported to people wanting fat mannequins. It's one of the most annoying things i have ever seen in my life.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

Not really, things of that sort of unbelievable nature as described elsewhere do happen but they're usually way overblown by the media ect.

Western society is definitely not at all "too soft" (Usually code for "too liberal" from what i've seen) considering how widespread even basic things like sexism, racism and homophobia are. When you contrast realities of living like the fact here in australia polticians are able to go into the public stage and lie about basic things, like the idea that gay marriage here will open the door to beastiality or be bad for children ect ect even in the face of things elsewhere, or claim that muslim people should be banned from entering the country or their religion declared merely an ideology.

How can a society with that be "too soft" involving similar issues? When people say "look at all those idiots with their 33 genders!!!" in the face of such publicly unchallenged homophobia in the same society, or "wow what softies telling me it's racist to report on Muslim extremism!" juxtaposing the extreme misinformation being spread about muslims and literal racism/Islamophobia being tossed without care?

 

[0]

Not really, things of that sort of unbelievable nature as described elsewhere do happen but they're usually way overblown by the media ect.

Western society is definitely not at all "too soft" (Usually code for "too liberal" from what i've seen) considering how widespread even basic things like sexism, racism and homophobia are. When you contrast realities of living like the fact here in australia polticians are able to go into the public stage and lie about basic things, like the idea that gay marriage here will open the door to beastiality or be bad for children ect ect even in the face of things elsewhere, or claim that muslim people should be banned from entering the country or their religion declared merely an ideology.

How can a society with that be "too soft" involving similar issues? When people say "look at all those idiots with their 33 genders!!!" in the face of such publicly unchallenged homophobia in the same society, or "wow what softies telling me it's racist to report on Muslim extremism!" juxtaposing the extreme misinformation being spread about muslims and literal racism/Islamophobia being tossed without care?

I don't think we can be "hard" because of racism or homophobia or whatever. That is similar to the argument that middle schoolers make, where they think they are "hard" because they can say curse world.


I agree with the poster above you. We are simply too soft these days. In the past, it used to be that boys and dads would go fish or go out doors, but it seems like all boys do these days is complain on the internet about their gender, or how they feel oppressed or whatever the hell. I don't know if this is because we are in a city, but things certainly never were like this, with people complaining about things and doing nothing about them. Its like people who complain about the heat or cold outside. What will you do about it? Nothing, so stop complaining.


So, society in my opinion is too soft. There is little aggression that makes people get up and do things. Society as a wholes just sits and whines.

 

[Lucid]

No. Like realistically? Maybe if you spend a ton of time online or engrossed in media outlets. But in general, with most face to face interactions? I honestly don't know or meet any people in my daily life that say things like "you triggered me" or give any sort of shit about hurting anyone's feelings. My sister in law was going through an incident of sexual harassment at work last year and she was afraid to bring anything up to anyone because in the real world if you do bring up an issue like that you're more likely to get met with an eye roll and told to just ignore the problem or stop trying to push any sort of feminist bullshit down people's throats. Just supporting any cause, that comes off as a sjw sort will get you accused of being in people's faces about it, even if it just gets brought up once. In my experience anyway.

The Internet is an outlet for people to express themselves and vent about things that bother them, if it really bothers you, exit out or scroll over it. You have that option online and it's one you rarely get in face to face interactions. I think when people see these long rants over things that they deem petty or stupid, they forget that the person writing them may be a pretty young kid, super depressed or going through some rough shit. I know I've never felt coddled by society and I think I have it pretty good. There's always going to be people who take things to far and try to be inflammatory for the sake of it and argue or be enraged for an imaginary third party but like with any thing, but it's really a waste of time to focus on them.

Like the old lady who sued McDonald's for hot coffee's lawsuit went down in like 94 and people still reference it like its a recent or daily occurrence. A lot of these stories make the news because they're unusual. Lawyers don't want to take on cases they don't think they'll win. They don't. I'm not a hyper sensitive person, it takes a lot to genuinely offend or upset me, so more often then not I find when someone says "you're being overly sensitive", it's just a cop out to not have to attempt to empathize and see eye to eye with someone, or they're just defending their ability to be a jerk. I do think society is making some great steps in teaching kids to treat each other nicer and to become more understanding towards one another, which I think the s really great and makes me happy for my kids and hopes that they'll have better experiences growing up.

 

[Kanzler]

RE: McDonald Coffee Lawsuit. The coffee was found to be about 80 degrees C, and caused the woman to have to undergo skin grafts due to third degree burns. You probably can't remember the last time you spilled hot liquid on yourself at home and had to get skin grafts because the tea or coffee you serve yourself would never be that hot and you never got third degree burns.

And anyways, the jury found McDonalds to be 80% at fault, the woman 20%. Which I think is fair, because she did have a role in unsafely handling the coffee, if you read the details. The point is that it wasn't a frivolous lawsuit.

 

[Lucid]

Well what I meant with it was that despite happening 20 years ago, it's still used as an exsample of society recently becoming hypersensitive, but yeah.

 

[Esper]

Going off of what Lucid said, you don't generally see or hear of people in the real world saying things like "check your privilege" or whatever, but you do see the other side of things. Online and in the real world you do often see racist stuff, hatred of Muslims, and outrage against people's sexual identities. So, like if on the one hand, you've got people putting up with that anger everywhere and only complaining online are they really soft compared to the people who have to complain everywhere?

 

[Hands]

Well, I think we are in some respects. We definitely need to stop treating failure as anything but failure. It's ok to mess up but when we tell kids it doesn't matter then they'll never have any incentive to try.

As a society on social issues? No, we're still pretty awful. There's a great example in this thread where someone has already mentioned the fabled myth of "made up genders from 5 minutes ago" and we're not even 10 posts in. I'm only surprised he didn't mention attack helicopters or plantkin or some other internet myth.

We don't treat people well, at all, in society. From the poor, to religious groups, to sexual identities. We still treat people pretty poorly on an individual basis.

 

[Kanzler]

Well what I meant with it was that despite happening 20 years ago, it's still used as an exsample of society recently becoming hypersensitive, but yeah.

I wasn't responding to you specifically, just an FYI to everybody who hears about it but don't know too much about it and just believes what the media tells them.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

I don't think we can be "hard" because of racism or homophobia or whatever. That is similar to the argument that middle schoolers make, where they think they are "hard" because they can say curse world.

But, if the polar opposite of things considered "soft" isn't considered "hard" what is? It's very hard to quantify what "hard" even means, so much so that it doesn't even sound right when you're trying to use it in a sentence the same way you'd use "soft"

I agree with the poster above you. We are simply too soft these days. In the past, it used to be that boys and dads would go fish or go out doors, but it seems like all boys do these days is complain on the internet about their gender, or how they feel oppressed or whatever the hell. I don't know if this is because we are in a city, but things certainly never were like this, with people complaining about things and doing nothing about them. Its like people who complain about the heat or cold outside. What will you do about it? Nothing, so stop complaining.


So, society in my opinion is too soft. There is little aggression that makes people get up and do things. Society as a wholes just sits and whines.

"Boys and dads" still do those things now just as "boys" also used to sit inside or whatever? I think the idea of this whole culture of doing nothing holds more water than the idea society is too soft ,because they are very different things, but even still that kind of """armchair activism""" does get results more than people think? Internet campaigns are powerful and the ability to share ideas and opinions in the way you can online is an incredibly powerful tool for activism or the oppressed or whatever, even if the risk of echo chamber communities do exist

 

[gimmepie]

I've come to notice that in particular there are primarily two (sometimes overlapping) groups who make this claim, although certainly there are others.

1. Older generations: By this, I am referring to people in there 50's+ - especially the white, Christian and/or wealthy - who grew up in a very different era and tend to have very little understanding of contemporary issues nor of longstanding ones that tended to be buried out of public mind before Gen X turned around and uttered a collective "What the fuck?" about a lot of them. It's easy to call people soft when they're dealing with many more problems than you did in your time, largely problems caused by you that you refuse to take responsibility for. Younger generations aren't soft, we're trying to cope in the disaster of a world that was left for us and barely keeping afloat.

2. Assholes: Putting it bluntly, a very large number of the people who complain about society growing too soft (this time mostly younger groups, although the older are certainly guilty of it too), simply don't like that we're asking them to actually show some respect for others. They want a free pass to be unjust and/or cruel to people who don't fit their twisted view of how the world should be and don't like that nowadays society in general is calling them out for their bullshit.

Now, I won't pretend that there aren't cases where we take political correctness and social justice too far. There are indeed some groups and individuals that seem to have their feelings hurt if someone so much as sneezes openly. These people have always existed though, this is in no way a new thing. It's just that modern technology has given everyone more of a voice and connected people in unprecedented ways so it's far easier for this minority of people to be very vocal and to get heard.

So yes, some people are overly sensitive or "too soft", but in general no society in general is not becoming weaker or more sensitive. This is a perception perpetuated by people who can't cope with the problems they buried/created being brought forth to the surface (primarily for newer generations to deal with) and insensitive pricks who want to be able to get away with being unfairly cruel to others and exacerbated by a vocal minority of people who use modern communications technology to give those people a leg to stand on that they ordinarily would not possess.

Edit: Also, in response to some of the things said above, I'd like to point out that a change in interests from the physical to the digital has nothing to do with us softening as a society. It has a lot more to do with modernization and peoples interests changing to reflect the new era that we live in. I'm the first to say that as a society we need to encourage physical and creative activities in children more than we are at the moment and that we need to rely a little less on technology, but let's not confuse two very different discussions that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Hands]

1. Older generations: By this, I am referring to people in there 50's+ - especially the white, Christian and/or wealthy - who grew up in a very different era and tend to have very little understanding of contemporary issues nor of longstanding ones that tended to be buried out of public mind before Gen X turned around and uttered a collective "What the ****?" about a lot of them. It's easy to call people soft when they're dealing with many more problems than you did in your time, largely problems caused by you that you refuse to take responsibility for. Younger generations aren't soft, we're trying to cope in the disaster of a world that was left for us and barely keeping afloat.

Its because they don't understand that the world has changed. I constantly hear "WE WERE FINE BEFORE THE EU" as if it is still the 60s. The post war generation rode on the sacrifice of the bravest and wrecked things for the newest.

 

[Hands]

I can't really grasp the idea of how someone can be so offended they need their own dedicated room/part of a room/whatever to get their overly-coddled egos back down to earth

Well there's the problem, you can't understand it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.

My younger sister has crippling, and I mean crippling anxiety issues. If something sets it off then she gets into a really sorry state and sometimes she just needs to have somewhere quiet and calm to go to try and calm down. Safe spaces aren't just for "coddled egos". They cover a wide selection of issues, from victims of sexual and physical abuse, to those suffering with mental illnesses and even just a place for victims of constant bullying to gain a little respite and control over their situation.

Showing compassion to people who have it worse than us isn't being soft. It's being decent.

 

[gimmepie]

For the post above: I believe Team Fail was clearly talking about something else. You kinda missed the whole point.

I've noticed that, we are becoming soft. Although from my experience, people in my country doesn't seem as soft as some people I've met online and more specifically on PC. Maybe it's just that some people feel safer to show off these emotions online, I don't know really. But I think is undeniable that lately we've seeing the softest side of people ever.

People definitely feel more comfortable displaying their emotions and vulnerabilities online than they do in person which I think is something important to keep into consideration. So is the fact that unlike physical disabilities, mental illnesses aren't always easily identifiable to the casual observer so people who might seem like "coddled egos" to others often have real problems. Sure coddled people exist, but they are definitely not a large part of society.

 

[Hands]

For the post above: I believe Team Fail was clearly talking about something else. You kinda missed the whole point.

I've noticed that, we are becoming soft. Although from my experience, people in my country doesn't seem as soft as some people I've met online and more specifically on PC. Maybe it's just that some people feel safer to show off these emotions online, I don't know really. But I think is undeniable that lately we've seeing the softest side of people ever.

He's talking about the safe spaces that have popped up on campuses around the West for people who feel oppressed or offended or whatever. Those places are also there for people suffering with mental illnesses, bullying etc. The whole point of them is to offer a feeling of safety. It was clear what he was talking about but friend I feel maybe you're the one missing the point(s)

 

[Keiran]

No, we're not. Internet culture just tends to be way more critical of anything women, or male feminists, say.

Speaking of 'made up places', the same internet culture that makes fun of people for needing quiet places to calm down in during episodes is the same one that gets upset at women for the 'friend zone'. So we all tend to complain and get upset over things we just need to learn how to ignore things that don't really impact us but can be important with someone else's perspective.

 

[Hands]

Actually no. The whole point is that we're talking about people going soft and you mentioned these places, which are also an alternative for people with disabilities and mental illnesses. That is not going soft. His point still stands, excluding people who are ill, therefore not having anything to do with this conversation, we are left with people who are actually soft, which was the point, people going soft, not ill people.

Please re-read his post. I didn't bring safe spaces up, Team Fail did. He stated he couldn't understand why we have them, I simply widened the debate by explaining that they service a multitude of people and needs and that just because he didn't understand them they were still a legitimate thing.

 

[Nolafus]

I don't think it's necessarily people getting softer, but society getting tougher.

What I mean by that is the young adults of today got screwed up pretty badly by the previous generations, and the current state of society. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read it, but I did read about how high school seniors are under the same amount of stress today as insane asylum patients twenty years ago. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone at such a young age, and the fact that they've been under that stress for twelve years doesn't help things either. Dealing with all of that crap for so long, it's a no brainer why the people coming out of high school today seem "softer" by comparison.

I don't think it's the younger generation's fault for being they way we are, as being put up against such expectations with an ever-growing list of requirements from school is a recipe for disaster. The stress may not seem so bad at first glance, but when it feels like over half of kids coming out of the education system suffers from some sort of anxiety, depression, or both, something is obviously broken.

Getting easily offended, temper tantrums, shouting at nothing, and not being able to take much more stress in general is, in my opinion, a side effect to the horrible education system and the continuing crumbling state of society in general. These kids come out on the other side, knowing something is broken, and wanting to fix it, take every little discomfort and make it out to be the reason society is messed up.

So now we have a bunch of young adults screaming about problems that are blown way out of proportion, desperate to do anything to fix every problem they've ever encountered. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there's always the vocal minority who will take it to the furthest possible extreme.

Heck, when people from older generations that were somehow "harder" start breaking down and getting their own share of mental health problems, there's obviously something very wrong. The main difference is that the older generations grew up in a much more stable environment, whereas the younger generations had to grow up with the chaos that is today. It led off to extremists that are promising a solution to the problem, when they're actually making it worse, and now we have a "soft" generation with a slew of mental illnesses trying to find their way in the broken world left for us by previous generations.

 

[Kanzler]

What I mean by that is the young adults of today got screwed up pretty badly by the previous generations, and the current state of society. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read it, but I did read about how high school seniors are under the same amount of stress today as insane asylum patients twenty years ago. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone at such a young age, and the fact that they've been under that stress for twelve years doesn't help things either. Dealing with all of that crap for so long, it's a no brainer why the people coming out of high school today seem "softer" by comparison.

I wouldn't believe that claim unless it was very well explained and supported.

I don't think it's the younger generation's fault for being they way we are, as being put up against such expectations with an ever-growing list of requirements from school is a recipe for disaster. The stress may not seem so bad at first glance, but when it feels like over half of kids coming out of the education system suffers from some sort of anxiety, depression, or both, something is obviously broken.

How is the list of requirements ever-growing if the general consensus is that the education system is weakening? Actually, I thought a big complaint about the American education system was that standards are decreasing, not increasing.