Christians vs. Atheists.

[J9794]

I agree on most things with Luck Hax, the only thing I'd add to his speech would be "All hail the Helix fossil".

Do you believe in evolution?

Do you agree that, we, that is handsome/beautiful are from apes?
Are you an ape?

The theory of evolution actually says that both apes and men share a common ancestor. That means there was an animal that after a really long proccess evolutioned into several different species, one of them being the humans.
How do you explain the humans appearing in the world? Because I find it easier to believe that some really simple forms of life popped into the world (which I don't remember if it was actually proven to be possible or not) than humans, which are extremely complex, popped into the world.

Would homosexuals still end up in Hell even if they were devoted Christians during their lifetime on Earth?

If they're Christians, they won't end up homosexuals.

How? as BadPokemon stated, if according to the bible we are all sinners and homosexuality is a sin, what differenciates them from you, who also are a sinner?

 

[Percy]

Every human is a sinner....

 

[J9794]

Every human is a sinner....

that's my point, I think I don't understand what you try to say

 

[Lucky#13]

Firstly
It appears that you are trying to stir up a confrontation, which is sad.

Secondly
I am a Christian. (might as well give my view point if it isn't obvious enough)(Formerly nondenominational currently in attendance as Presbyterian)

Thirdly
I'm really ****** off because I typed this up and then was logged out before I posted and am retyping it.

Fourthly
I will answer your questions.

Q1 Why do you refuse to accept other beliefs yet bash those who do not accept yours?
I am understanding of your experiences with those who follow religion. It is a sad experience that quite honestly should not be happening. You may be surprised to find though, that many denominations actually do practice what they preach about acceptance and compassion. I do. Sadly however the groups that get media coverage are the ones that are hateful, because ratings. It also happens in film. What once was satire trying to help "Christians" to see their faults has become tasteless mockery.
They are also what you would call "bible-pushers" (one of the lesser offensive titles I've had the pleasure of hearing.)

Q2 Do you think that atheists are immoral?
Nope, morality is a social construct that often differs between people and or groups. An atheist can be "moral". In fact I've met a few that are more "moral" than several Christians I've met.

Q3 Do you believe in evolution?
To an extent. I don't fully believe man from monkey. I do believe that physical traits within a species can change based on extended spans of time in differing locations. It has happened with humans. Race is a result of evolution. That and several studies prove that evolution does happen.

Q4 Would homosexuals go to Hell if they were devoted Christians?
I doubt it. In truth I don't know, and truly nobody does. Most denominations will try to give an answer and most of them will give different ones.

You may be surprised to find that many atheists were at some point followers of a religion or had a bad experience with someone that does.

I will answer the other questions another time, as I am not really in the mood to retype my answers to them as well.

 

[Gigadweeb]

Keep in mind atheists do the same things to Christians, especially over on /r/atheism.

 

[Aeroblast]

What is the role of Science in Religion? Is science fundementally against religion, or is religion fully compatible with scientific breakthroughs? Should religion even be considered comparable to science?

I believe that concepts of science and religion (specifically Christianity) are mutually exclusive, because many discoveries made by science directly conflict with the stories in the Bible. For example, if you know how death works, you can't say that resurrection from the dead is possible. If you know how gravity works, you can't say that it's possible for a body of water to split in half by thin air alone.

 

[Danny0317]

Personally, when I see an Atheist, I just smile, and try to persuade him/her that Jesus Christ is true, quoting some verses...., but when I can't, I just think,
Okay, you don't believe in Jesus Christ, that's fine by me.
And just be friendly with him/her.

Why? If they're like me, or most atheists, they really don't wanna hear it. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. I know I get angry when people try to convert me, and quoting verses doesn't really help. Unless you're in a debate, you shouldn't try to persuade them Jesus is real. Likewise, that person shouldn't try to convince you of the opposite.

Do you agree that, we, that is handsome/beautiful are from apes?
Are you an ape?

That is very flawed thinking. It doesn't mean we come from apes, it means humans and apes share a common ancestor. Please tell me you knew that already.

If they're Christians, they won't end up homosexuals.

Now that's just wrong. I've met a few homosexual/bisexual Christians.. It's also not wise to just flat out claim something like that, when in fact it is false.

And I would like to add, that, no hard feelings, okay?

No hard feelings, my man. :D

 

[Yukari]

First, let me establish that I am a Christian. Well with that out of the way I'm going to answer you're (Biased) questions.

Why do you refuse to accept others' beliefs but bash those who refuse to accepts yours?
First, I don't. I accept all beliefs Atheist or otherwise. If someone refuses to accept my beliefs, then fine! It's their decision.

Do you think that Atheists are immoral due to their lack of faith in God?
I believe that the human soul is immortal, Atheist, Christian, or any other sin.

Do you believe in evolution?
Simply put, no. I believe that God created man in six actual days as the bible says. And there is no evidence of evolution in the bible. Nor have is seen real world evidence, but if there is it hasn't come to my attention.

Would homosexuals still end up in Hell even if they were devoted Christians during their lifetime on Earth?
Simply put, yes. The Bible is clear on this matter. It's a sin. Just as much a sin as any other. And at the same time I believe that God can forgive anyone of any sin, including Homosexuality.

 

[Lucky#13]

As for the shoving it down people's throats in order to "save" them. Expressing opinions is one thing, but trying to force your opinions on to another is intolerable. Regardless of which side it is on, it shouldn't happen. I typically don't voice my opinions on such matter unless otherwise asked or unless I am in a deep conversation with another person about said topics.

Role of science and religion Question.

I believe that the two go hand in hand quite honestly. A few people I know use the phrase "Religion is the why and Science is the how."

The examples in an above post showing a few of the contradictions are supposed to emphasize another main message that the bible teaches, "Through faith all things are possible." meaning that with strong enough faith anything is possible. Jesus, being fully man and fully God, has unlimited faith. The other "For the wages of sin is death." meaning that because sin happens, death happens, but Jesus who had not ever sinned should not die. The whole "he died for your sins" is not a metaphor, ironically. (a lot of the bible is symbolism/metaphor) According to the Christian belief he took the full weight of all sin then and there. Any sin that has happened or has yet to happen has been "paid for". It is understandable that someone not practicing the faith wouldn't have learned that, a lot of people who do practice don't fully comprehend that message.

 

[The Void]

Hey. Devout Catholic here.

Why do you refuse to accept others' beliefs but bash those who refuse to accepts yours?
I don't. I believe strongly in ecumenism and interfaith dialogue.

Do you think that Atheists are immoral due to their lack of faith in God?
Lack of faith in God is not a basis for immorality per se, but the values and actions that arise from such atheism.

Do you believe in evolution?
Yes. Fossil records and genetic patterns are solid evidence of this. There is no conflict between evolution and Catholicism. Monks such as Gregor Mendel and Chevalier de Lemarck contributed to the development of the theory. Pope Pius XII made this clear in the 1950 encyclical Humani Generis, but clarified that the individual soul was attributed to creation by God.

Would homosexuals still end up in Hell even if they were devoted Christians during their lifetime on Earth?
My bet is no, definitely not; but it's up to God to tell. I like how Pope Francis puts it: "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?"

 

[Nah]

According to the Christian belief he took the full weight of all sin then and there. Any sin that has happened or has yet to happen has been "paid for".

This is one of those things I never understood about Christianity. So if Jesus's death paid for all the sins that have ever and will ever happen, why bother following Christianity? Why bother avoiding committing sins if any sin you commit is automatically paid off by this one guy's death ~2000 years ago? Why would people still go to hell if this the case?

 

[Plumpyfoof]

I'd like to contribute to this.

I'm strongly into letting people do whatever they want. When people try to convert my religious beliefs in particular I feel very insulted. I'm not going to divulge my beliefs because it shouldn't matter, I am a human being. I have emotions, ambitions, problems, rights, and thoughts just the same as everyone else.
Atheists and Christians should listen to me when I say, what does it matter if they have a different opinion to you? It's impossible to prove anyway, and chances are you're both probably wrong. The only harm you're bringing to each other is the hurt feelings of being told you're wrong without having any solid reason behind it.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

I believe that concepts of science and religion (specifically Christianity) are mutually exclusive, because many discoveries made by science directly conflict with the stories in the Bible. For example, if you know how death works, you can't say that resurrection from the dead is possible. If you know how gravity works, you can't say that it's possible for a body of water to split in half by thin air alone.

A literal interpretation of the Bible is mutually exclusive to scientific advancements, but most people do not interpret the Bible literally. Some see the Resurrection of Jesus as a nonliteral Resurrection, mind you he did die metaphorically for their "sins" so perhaps a Resurrection implies that Jesus (god) would be willing to forgive again. The sea parting in two has never been recorded but it is likely that the story has been exaggerated to make it appear more interesting and more inspiring - that doesn't take away from the story in general. And as I've stated in previous threads, almost all the value of the Bible comes from nonliteral interpretations - just like how the value of most other stories come from.

Again I'm not religious so religious folk, feel free to correct me. But there's no reason for the two to be mutally exclusive. Many scientists are religious and hold no conflicting opinions between their Christianity and their work, even in fields where they would conflict if interpreted literally.

 

[Lucky#13]

This is one of those things I never understood about Christianity. So if Jesus's death paid for all the sins that have ever and will ever happen, why bother following Christianity? Why bother avoiding committing sins if any sin you commit is automatically paid off by this one guy's death ~2000 years ago? Why would people still go to hell if this the case?

Interesting couple of questions

Why bother following? Ultimately God will judge all. (partial answer to all three)
What God wants is for us to love him and each other. Half of that can be done without following Christianity. It is difficult to love something you don't believe in. Not one that likes to quote scripture a lot but "Jesus answered I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Why bother avoiding committing sin?
I will build off of my previous answer.
Sin drives a wedge between you and God. It is all about how close you are to God.

Why would people still go to hell?
You can't just give everyone a free pass. Building off of the above again.
This is why the acceptance of Jesus into your heart is such a prominent thing. By accepting him into our hearts he is able to share with you that eternal life in Heaven. Without us accepting him into our hearts, his dying for our sins would be pointless.


The bible is an interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation interpreted by someone's interpretation of............books written by multiple authors who did not collaborate. I believe that the message is still intact albeit altered. I do still believe that it appears exactly how God wanted it to appear. (No matter how vague, ambiguous, open to interpretation it may be.)

I believe that answers, or at least acknowledges another question or comment.

 

[Aeroblast]

A literal interpretation of the Bible is mutually exclusive to scientific advancements, but most people do not interpret the Bible literally. Some see the Resurrection of Jesus as a nonliteral Resurrection, mind you he did die metaphorically for their "sins" so perhaps a Resurrection implies that Jesus (god) would be willing to forgive again. The sea parting in two has never been recorded but it is likely that the story has been exaggerated to make it appear more interesting and more inspiring - that doesn't take away from the story in general. And as I've stated in previous threads, almost all the value of the Bible comes from nonliteral interpretations - just like how the value of most other stories come from.

I understand where you're coming from, I actually used to thought about this at some point, but to me it just boils down to performing mental gymnastics to make sense of coexistence of science and religion, and ultimately results in reverse engineering passages that don't fit their scientific purposes, often completely changing their original meaning.

As for the bolded part, that's the premise of religion - making these stories interesting, as you call it, by filling with scientific impossibilities like the Parting of the Red Sea to try to persuade the readers of god's "greatness" and get them to have faith to believe in it.

Again, it's a good effort to try to persue their scientific and religious endeavors, and convince themselves to believe in both principles, but I believe inherently science and religion are like water and oil - they do not mix. I do respect the scientists who believe in both principles, I merely disagree with their belief.


@Lucky#13

Role of science and religion Question.

I believe that the two go hand in hand quite honestly. A few people I know use the phrase "Religion is the why and Science is the how."

Does religion really provide the correct answers for the "why" questions though - no one knows, so what's the point of asking those "why" questions in the first place? I know science we have discovered so far provides correct "how" answers because they are based on empirical research and evidence, not by faith.

The examples in an above post showing a few of the contradictions are supposed to emphasize another main message that the bible teaches, "Through faith all things are possible." meaning that with strong enough faith anything is possible.

That's the flaw with faith in the first place, though. Faith requires belief without evidence, and it's actually a dangerous concept if you think about it, because you can use faith to justfiy pretty much any action you commit.

And if inquiring questions about trying to find out why I should believe in god without evidence results in an "all-loving" god sending me to hell to be burned and tortured for eternity then so be it.

Interesting couple of questions

Why bother following? Ultimately God will judge all. (partial answer to all three)
What God wants is for us to love him and each other. Half of that can be done without following Christianity. It is difficult to love something you don't believe in. Not one that likes to quote scripture a lot but "Jesus answered I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Why bother avoiding committing sin?
I will build off of my previous answer.
Sin drives a wedge between you and God. It is all about how close you are to God.

Why would people still go to hell?
You can't just give everyone a free pass. Building off of the above again.
This is why the acceptance of Jesus into your heart is such a prominent thing. By accepting him into our hearts he is able to share with you that eternal life in Heaven. Without us accepting him into our hearts, his dying for our sins would be pointless.

Let me ask you something - If you're born parts of the world where it's currently impossible for Christianity to flourish (e.g. Middle East), are you doomed for eternity because they can't accept a Judeo-Christian God? It seems messed up that many people are doomed to be burned and tortured in hell from the get-go.

And what if someone dies as an infant (not that I wish this on anyone in the future), who are yet mentally incapable of accepting Jesus their hearts? Are they given no chance before they are told they need to go to hell because they didn't accept Jesus?

 

[Lucky#13]

@Lucky#13



Does religion really provide the correct answers for the "why" questions though - no one knows, so what's the point of asking those "why" questions in the first place? I know science we have discovered so far provides correct "how" answers because they are based on empirical research and evidence, not by faith.

Point taken, I personally have come to a similar view. Whether the "Why" answers are correct or not is irrelevant since there is no way to be 100% certain.

That's the flaw with faith in the first place, though. Faith requires belief without evidence, and it's actually a dangerous concept if you think about it, because you can use faith to justfiy pretty much any action you commit.

And if inquiring questions about trying to find out why I should believe in god without evidence results in an "all-loving" god sending me to hell to be burned and tortured for eternity then so be it.

I will not argue that there have been and are a handful of misguided people or groups that claim to do horrible things in the name of faith. (it happens more than I care to admit, and is sad.) You are correct in believing that faith is a dangerous concept especially when it is the basis of a religion.

When did ever say that inquiring about why you should believe would send you to Hell. Quite the contrary. Asking questions is how you find information you would have otherwise not seen. Doing so is actually encouraged. (or at least should be). If you are mad because I referred to your posts examples, I assure you it was not intended as an insult. I thought it would save you the trouble of pointing out the same examples and restating how they contradict.

Let me ask you something - If you're born parts of the world where it's currently impossible for Christianity to flourish (e.g. Middle East), are you doomed for eternity because they can't accept a Judeo-Christian God? It seems messed up that many people are doomed to be burned and tortured in hell from the get-go.

And what if someone dies as an infant (not that I wish this on anyone in the future), who are yet mentally incapable of accepting Jesus their hearts? Are they given no chance before they are told they need to go to hell because they didn't accept Jesus?

One of the ambiguous areas in religion actually. Somewhere, I don't have the time to actually search for it right now, there was a promise that all people would have the opportunity to at least hear the gospel before their time came. There is another verse speaking of the importance of spreading the word to all the ends of the Earth. This gets into one of the really controversial topics. The omnipotence or omniscience of God. I will talk about that later.

With infants and the mentally handicapped, it is widely considered that they are not held to the same standard. Those who mentally can not understand the difference between right and wrong or are unable comprehend the message already have their own place in Heaven. There is also a concept called the "age of accountability" that says up to a certain age/mental capability children have a place as well, including the unborn and infants. Though most people disagree on when that age occurs.

 

[Aeroblast]

When did ever say that inquiring about why you should believe would send you to Hell. Quite the contrary. Asking questions is how you find information you would have otherwise not seen. Doing so is actually encouraged. (or at least should be). If you are mad because I referred to your posts examples, I assure you it was not intended as an insult. I thought it would save you the trouble of pointing out the same examples and restating how they contradict.

I didn't take it as an insult, sorry if it rubbed off as that way.

But you did say you have to accept God and Jesus in order to get to heaven. I'm not doing so because I don't find evidence for them and I don't rely on faith to believe in them, so am I going to hell for it, yes or no?

One of the ambiguous areas in religion actually. Somewhere, I don't have the time to actually search for it right now, there was a promise that all people would have the opportunity to at least hear the gospel before their time came. There is another verse speaking of the importance of spreading the word to all the ends of the Earth. This gets into one of the really controversial topics. The omnipotence or omniscience of God. I will talk about that later.

Well, except... there are billions of people already who have died before they could hear one word of christianity or have lived in a society where christianity was frowned upon and/or banned. Whoops, too late.

With infants and the mentally handicapped, it is widely considered that they are not held to the same standard. Those who mentally can not understand the difference between right and wrong or are unable comprehend the message already have their own place in Heaven. There is also a concept called the "age of accountability" that says up to a certain age/mental capability children have a place as well, including the unborn and infants. Though most people disagree on when that age occurs.

Is there any specific bible verse that says babies and mentally handicapped are free from sin? As far as I know all are sinners.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Why? If they're like me, or most atheists, they really don't wanna hear it. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. I know I get angry when people try to convert me, and quoting verses doesn't really help. Unless you're in a debate, you shouldn't try to persuade them Jesus is real. Likewise, that person shouldn't try to convince you of the opposite.

Let me start off first with saying I'm not religious. But to my knowledge and the ways of the Christian religion he/she is right by trying to convert someone to be a Christian to an extent. If I'm correct the ways of the Christian religion is to try to spread the religion to others and to get them to believe and put their faith in Jesus/God. I don't see a problem with Christians doing this since it's their duty outside of being a good person. But I do see a problem with atheists getting worked up over it and going overboard; atheist don't realize it's part of their religion. Just say you're not interested and move on. Shoving down their throat isn't the way, but being respectful and trying is the right way. Christians and atheist both need to realize that not everyone is going to follow a specific religion. If they don't convert that's cool, religion is by choice not force nor should it be by force.

If they're Christians, they won't end up homosexuals.

Are you serious? Please explain your reasoning, I'd like some entertaining gibberish.

Imo religion is ******** and it makes me sick that people actually argue over religion, internationally try to hurt someone mentally or flame them for their religion, get in wars over religion, and kill over religion. As I said, RELIGION FLIES PLANES INTO BUILDINGS! Religion is a disease in my eyes. The world would be a better place if religion didn't even exist. Religion and politics is the 2 evils.

 

[Megan]

Never experienced an occasion where someone tried to convert me to their religion. I just imagined a couple of times what I'd do when a couple of those people who like to go from door to door and greet you with a good old "do you believe in god?" knocked on my door. I mean: there's nothing better than a "god is dead" to break the ice. :P

I have been thinking for a long time, wheather there might be a god, or not, but in the end: you can try as hard as you can, but you as a human will never be able to prove neither the existance nor the lack of a god. Chances are, all holy books in the world just lie and the true god is something or someone completely different.

For me, I think it's unlikely a god (as a person) created the world and since I don't like convincing someone of something without decisive proof, I'm not interferring with their believes.
It actually wouldn't surprise me if all people who try to convert someone to their believe, don't even understand what they say themselves.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

I have been thinking for a long time, wheather there might be a god, or not, but in the end: you can try as hard as you can, but you as a human will never be able to prove neither the existance nor the lack of a god. Chances are, all holy books in the world just lie and the true god is something or someone completely different.

I'm sure a God does exist, I can't deny that. I believe Jesus Christ may exist but I'm not gonna put my trust into it. The main flaw I noticed is, if you don't accept him as your savior you go to hell. What?! So according to the bible he is the ONE and ONLY God? Every other culture that believes in a different God like Muslims is going to hell? Seem's a bit far fetched.

Yes people try using the bible as evidence. I actually came across someone that said God is real because the bible was real. Didn't say anything after that, wasn't gonna even gonna try to argue.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if all people who try to convert someone to their believe, don't even understand what they say themselves.

That's religion in a nutshell tho. People are just gullible like that. They read the bible and assume God is real, they go to church and believe God is real, atheist see holes in the bible and uses it as evidence that God doesn't exist, and the list goes on an on. The truth is, nobody on this planet knows for a fact, they can just assume. It beats me to why people try to prove an existence like this when it can't be. These are the main reasons I don't get involved in religion. I feel it's better to stay out of it with all the trouble it's caused.