CONGRATS! US HEALTHCARE REFORM PASSES!

[Simmons_2.0]

I'm not sure what the liberal/conservative count on the Supreme Court is, actually. I hope you're right though.

Supreme Court Members
Chief Justice John Roberts- Conservative Appointed by George W. Bush
Justice John Stevens- Moderate, appointed by Ford
Justice Antonin Scalia- Conservative(I believe), Appointed by Reagan
Justice Anthony Kennedy- Moderate, Appointed by Reagan
Justice Clarence Thomas- Conservative, Appointed by George H.W. Bush
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg- Liberal, appointed by Clinton
Justice Stephan Breyer- Liberal, Appointed by Clinton
Justice Samuel Alito- Conservative, Appointed by George W. Bush
Justice Sonya Sotamayor- Liberal, Appointed by Barack Obama

So if this does end up going to the supreme court there are more Conservatives, but we have 2 moderates aswell, that could swing it.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

I don't know. Legal court challenges take years to get to the Supreme Court on account of Appeals.

And by that time this law will be fully in effect.

@Mario: Yes, the Individual Mandate portion of the bill sucks. But it has been floated around by both parties for so long because we can't "put everyone in the system" if they don't buy the private insurance (There are hardship exemptions though)

Oh well, that's why I was so critical of this bill from the beginning. Yet, it's what we get. Nobody wanted to have an open debate on the merits of other countries systems (Publicly, on record, shown in the Halls of Congress) due to the whole "American Exceptionalism" and "Socialized Medicine" stuff that we're seeing in this whole "apocalypse" reaction to this law.

You must realize that "other countries" have drastically smaller populations than we do, for the most part. That's why it doesn't FAIL as much for them (but it still fails). We have 350 million people as opposed to Canada's 30 million. That's why debt will be such a problem when making sure "everyone gets their fair share". As a matter of fact, India tried doing this, and they have about a couple billion people. They collapsed the hardest out of all the countries that tried a national system.

Justice Sonya Sotamayor- Liberal, Appointed by Barack Obama.

This nomination made me want to throw up. This woman advocates determining what OUR Constitution means based on the opinions of judges on OTHER NATIONS' Constitutions! On top of that, she has said in many countless statements that "a wise Latina judge" knows better than most people.

Right. Ok. Racist and bigoted, much?

 

[Bluerang1]

Yeah congrats, good to see Mr Obama isn't just words!

 

[Netto Azure]

You must realize that "other countries" have drastically fewer populations than we do, for the most part. That's why it doesn't FAIL as much for them (but it still fails). We have 350 million people as opposed to Canada's 30 million. That's why debt will be such a problem when making sure "everyone gets their fair share". As a matter of fact, India tried doing this, and they have about a couple billion people. They collapsed the hardest out of all the countries that tried a national system.

Is that so? You keep on quoting Canada, but the French and the Germans have a Private health Insurance system similar to our Employer based system. And the French is considered as having the best.

Otherwise, we should expand Medicare to all because either way from what people can see there is no other way of controlling costs. (Even the French is moving toward it as their private insurance system is being deemed by the public as unsustainable) The free market is not working as it is in healthcare because as people demand the "best" medical technologies, it of course costs more. Then by the time we adopt that and the costs go down...there's a new technology that is even more expensive that people want.

To be frank Medicare is only "failing" now only on the revenue side because, as insurance was originally designed, the more healthy population isn't there to spread the risk pool of our senior citizens. And people wonder why Senior Citizens are picky about "keeping governments hands off Medicare"

 

[Simmons_2.0]

Yeah congrats, good to see Mr Obama isn't just words!

He pretty much is... this is really the only major thing he's done. Besides berate Israel.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

Is that so? You keep on quoting Canada, but the French and the Germans have a Private health Insurance system similar to our Employer based system. And the French is considered as having the best.

Otherwise, we should expand Medicare to all because either way from what people can see there is no other way of controlling costs. (Even the French is moving toward it as their private insurance system is being deemed by the public as unsustainable) The free market is not working as it is in healthcare because as people demand the "best" medical technologies, it of course costs more. Then by the time we adopt that and the costs go down...there's a new technology that is even more expensive that people want.

To be frank Medicare is only "failing" now only on the revenue side because, as insurance was originally designed, the more healthy population isn't there to spread the risk pool of our senior citizens. And people wonder why Senior Citizens are picky about "keeping governments hands off Medicare"

There are plenty of ways to control costs that don't cost taxpayers a cent. Read my first post. one of the few I didn't mention was opening up state borders so that people can choose what insurance companies they want to pick from. That way, the failing or overly expensive companies will go under and people can regulate it with their own pocketbooks instead of having the government stick its nose into everything.

Secondly, as you can tell from my first post, I really don't believe insurance companies or the technology is really the big problem (although I do agree that new technology should cost less). But that whole technology thing goes straight back to my point about colleges being the true money suckers. Hi-tech jobs take 6-8 years of school as well, and if you want to go to the best technical colleges in the country, you can expect tuition to be sky-high. Naturally, the new hi-tech employees expect to be paid well to get rid of their student loans, so their bosses help them out with a six-figure income if you do your work well. Which then gets passed on to the consumer. Think I'm kidding? Take a look at the software industry. Between that and all the piracy, it's no wonder why the price of Photoshop is several hundred dollars.

Thirdly, even if not for the baby-boomers retiring, the Medicare program is STILL an entitlement, destined to grow until it collapses. Unfortunately for the liberals, there's never enough of other people's money to spread around. So they take more.

 

[Fur Elise]

I'm curious to know if some people hate this bill so much that a civil war would begin. So Texas would break away? Imagine that.

 

[Simmons_2.0]

I'm curious to know if some people hate this bill so much that a civil war would begin. So Texas would break away? Imagine that.

Texas, and some other states now are actually considering it, such as Oklahoma and Montana. It would be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming months.

 

[.little monster]

I'm curious to know if some people hate this bill so much that a civil war would begin. So Texas would break away? Imagine that.

I would love to see Texas leave. :3

Unfortunately, they would run themselves into the ground yet again (yes they were a country before) and we would take them back. :/

 

[Simmons_2.0]

Actually Every state BUT Texas would run themselves into the ground, I personally think Texas would do fairly well.

 

[Timbjerr]

As a Texan myself, I can see a particular angle to secession that would be a benefit to my personal situation in life.

That's not to say that it's the right thing to do, and I'm fairly sure that the Texas state government isn't that stupid (as well as those other ones tossing around the idea)

 

[GFA]

This bill is a shame but thankfully it is nothing like the Canadian system.

The bigegst difference is there still is not socialiazed health plan, thank God.
The good: Bans insurers from denying people for pre-existing conditons or dropping people at will
The bad: Forces Americans who do not want or cannot afford private insurance to purchase it (need to be reviewed by US Supreme Court imo), might cover elective abortions

Don't see how it's bad that people must have health insurance in the end, it's good for them. Who actually wants to take their medicine? Nobody. Do they? Yes.

might cover elective abortions.

As far as I understand it, no. Obama will be make an executive order that won't make this possible.* I thionk that I also remember that it didn't have any money for except for rape cases anyway. Though, considering I don't remember where I got that, may be that should be ignored.

Anway, an Abortion is someones rights. Late-term abortion should be considered murder, but anything in the 1st 3 months I'm fine with, as was the Supreme Court.

For now anyway, I have a Government test over Congress to study. So good-day to you all.

*Source: NPR

Oh, and OBAMA 2012! Woo Hoo!

 

[.little monster]

Texas, and some other states now are actually considering it, such as Oklahoma and Montana. It would be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming months.

No. They are not considering a civil war. :| They filed lawsuits against the federal government. That happens all the time. :|

wow.

Just wow.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

No. They are not considering a civil war. :| They filed lawsuits against the federal government. That happens all the time. :|

wow.

Just wow.

He was referring to this part:

So Texas would break away? Imagine that.

aka not civil war, just secession.

 

[.little monster]

He was referring to this part:

Then he still said something stupid, because the only place where sucession is even remotely popular is Texas. :|

And most people in Texas say that it's stupid because they know Texas by itself cannot maintain itself as a strong independent country.

 

[GFA]

You must realize that "other countries" have drastically smaller populations than we do, for the most part. That's why it doesn't FAIL as much for them (but it still fails). We have 350 million people as opposed to Canada's 30 million. That's why debt will be such a problem when making sure "everyone gets their fair share". As a matter of fact, India tried doing this, and they have about a couple billion people. They collapsed the hardest out of all the countries that tried a national system.

Would like o point out that India does NOT have "a couple billion people" no where near close. The world has 6 Billion~ total. How much is ac puple? 2? 3? If India had that many people, ... just wow.

Now, I must really do HW. If I post again, (in the near future) someone tell me to get off the board.

GFA

 

[Prince_of_Light]

Then he is still stupid, because the only place where sucession is even remotely popular is Texas. :|

And most people in Texas say that it's stupid because they know Texas by itself cannot maintain itself as a strong independent country.

Simmons certainly isn't stupid, but the secession idea might be.

 

[.little monster]

Simmons certainly isn't stupid, but the secession idea might be.

I actually meant to say "He said something stupid." Sorry Simmons. :[

 

[Prince_of_Light]

Would like o point out that India does NOT have "a couple billion people" no where near close. The world has 6 Billion~ total. How much is ac puple? 2? 3? If India had that many people, ... just wow.

Now, I must really do HW. If I post again, (in the near future) someone tell me to get off the board.

GFA

Population
2010 estimate 1,178,605,000[10] (2nd)
2001 census 1,028,610,328[11]
Density 358.5/km2 (32nd) 928.6/sq mi

So it's one billion. China's the one that has two billion. Doesn't really affect my point though because India still has three times our population.

 

[.little monster]

So it's one billion. Doesn't really affect my point though because they still have three times our population.

1. One billion is not "a couple billion"
2. That's an estimate. Please look up that definition.
3. Who cares about India in this thread? This is a thread about Health Care in the US, being passed in the US.