[CRITICSM] Past and present of ROM hacking

[spenceroone3]

To me, the only hackers out there that are actually good are the ones who try to script. Usually these people are the type who post in Script Discussion a lot like Thethethethe, Destinjagold, and Cooley. Other hackers who used to post frequently but now don't because they don't need to know much else are people like Semele, Zel and Irish Witch. Then there is the newbie scripters (Yes, they're still newbies, but they can do WAY better then those stupid I-Rely-On-My-A-Texters.), who ask for help cos they're scripts aren't working. That is part of my opionun (Sorry I can't spell that word :( )

 

[Blazichu]

Ehhhmmm... Well, hacking anything IS cool, Blazichu (if not, why are we all hacking?). But that doesn't mean it'll be easy, you'll have to probably be many hours with the try/error method, and that's when the hacker's patience is put on test (I just disagree with the word you picked, mind you ;))

I should have used the word easy instead of cool...my mistake(I have been very tired lately) xD

Because most people today think that hardly any changed maps or events makes a hack good...but it doesn't <_<

Most of the experienced hackers like CBM, Cartmic etc. show us that it takes time to learn. After learning what to do, a task can become very simple and events also become easy. Mapping appears to be a major problem today, people need to completely clear their maps and start them from scratch. AdvanceMap does have a Flight landing event so the Pokemon Centre can be put anywhere easily. Maps aren't hard to make they just take time ;)

@spenceroone3: No offense, but scripting that way(using a tool)is an easy way to hex it. So basically it is simple coding or lazy hex editing(no offense to anyone). I just hope someday people go back to using hex as it has alot of cool features and pointers aren't too difficult to learn, just a simple byte reversal for the Advance Gen. :P

 

[zel 2.0]

Well, then, what would become of the tool makers? (anywhere you look at the world of hacking has someone putting effort, so they also deserve a praise and our respect), and anyway, with an hex editor you could still script via hex, though I guess everyone's hacks would take a hell lot of time and we'd hardly have any completed hack around (with the exception of CBMan's... XP), since most everyone would get bored :(

Tools make everything easier, isn't that what tools are for? (I don't want to go back to the Stone Age :P)

 

[spenceroone3]

Well, then, what would become of the tool makers? (anywhere you look at the world of hacking has someone putting effort, so they also deserve a praise and our respect), and anyway, with an hex editor you could still script via hex, though I guess everyone's hacks would take a hell lot of time and we'd hardly have any completed hack around (with the exception of CBMan's... XP), since most everyone would get bored :(

Tools make everything easier, isn't that what tools are for? (I don't want to go back to the Stone Age :P)

It isn't called the Stone Age!!! It is called The-Long-Piece-Of-Film-With-Various-Holes-Inside-And-that-is-how-you-Command-your-Computer Age!!
Yeah and I agree about the tools part. However, that doesn't stop me from hex editing. I've almost finished my first ever tool... Superscripter, a program that generates script for u to use..

 

[El Diabeetus]

Guys what CBM means by clearing out the map before making the new one something like this:

After it's like that, start re-mapping.

 

[Deokishisu]

I put the image in a Spoiler because it's a bit big.

Guys what CBM means by clearing out the map before making the new one something like this:

Spoiler:

After it's like that, start re-mapping.

Personally, I clear out a map by just overwriting everything with grass tiles. That saves alot of time in the long run, and it's easier to see the grid with grass tile versus with black tiles like Cartman's example. Well, because the grid's black and so is the tile...

Anyway, to me, mapping is simple. You can't just go out and map willy-nilly, atleast not at first. You should have a basic outline of your map in your head. I even go as far as fleshing it out on paper before actually mapping it. (Which is an easy step. Just draw squares and label them as "Pokemon Center," "Gym," "House," "Tree.") Then I go to the actual mapping. The thing is, you should map like there's no restirctions. Just because the previous map only had three houses doesn't mean your map can't have six. The D/P maps are also great references because they're so big, but don't seem empty. GBA maps are smaller, but it's pretty easy to make them look empty. Pay attention to where you're placing things, because the placement of houses and houses with no doors is essential to making towns and city's look like they're inhabited. Have an big gaping empty spot? Put an empty house or a few trees in the area. Some empty space of grass could become a mini garden or park with a few trees and some flowers. Even city-goers need a break from the concrete now and then with some vegetation right?

That's all the advice I have right now, I have a ton of homework I need to get to, so I've probably spent enough time here already. See ya!

 

[Johnny3]

Yep , Much easier with grass tiles ^^', Instead of black saves some time, actually alot of time. See this Is the thing, the Newbie generation make little changes to the maps, like changing houses, fences and little things like that instead of changing the the map into a brand new one. The whole point of hacking is to make a rom into your own game so that people want to play it, there more likely to the play the game if it's been changed alot (they can't tell it's a hack) Like connections,palletes,tiles. I see people starting to early aswell without out knowing all that much, I mean guys if we are going to hack why not do it the best as we can?

I'm also seeing that scripting hasn't been a big part in hacks any more, script is the main aspect toward this interest If you could change just just maps it would be so boring wouldn't it? So script help us have a much better story Script basically do alot of the job.(Apart from maps)

Asm used to be a big thing and alot of people where capable of it, now this skill could provide alot this is what could get people to love your hacks, see I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I resume on my hack because I'm capable of so much more.

 

[Klingon]

I guess you might be right, you're entitled to your own opinion. But people can hack what they want. Just because it doesn't meet your hacks standards doesn't mean you should flame him; I suppose you're only giving him advice, but it's his hack.

Okay; how an earth can you people call a 'hack' that only edits maps? It is not a hack; just a basic edit of the game (if that).

You look at Pokemon Prism; and find it so different to the Pokemon Gold game; you're stunned. I fail to see on how you people get this reaction when you only edit the maps (if that).

Remakes are a waste of time (apart from one); we have this hack called Shiny Gold been made; why do we need another 5 gold remakes? Pfft; in that I understand your point of view, Coolboyman.

Since when do graphics take priority over gameplay; Some of you people make me sick (the people who make the remakes). I will support the hacks who have the potential; the gold hacks; Prism and PR to name a few.

I would expect advanced hackers to be looking up to the gold hackers.

 

[Johnny3]

I guess you might be right, you're entitled to your own opinion. But people can hack what they want. Just because it doesn't meet your hacks standards doesn't mean you should flame him; I suppose you're only giving him advice, but it's his hack.

Okay; how an earth can you people call a 'hack' that only edits maps? It is not a hack; just a basic edit of the game (if that).

You look at Pokemon Prism; and find it so different to the Pokemon Gold game; you're stunned. I fail to see on how you people get this reaction when you only edit the maps (if that).

Remakes are a waste of time (apart from one); we have this hack called Shiny Gold been made; why do we need another 5 gold remakes? Pfft; in that I understand your point of view, Coolboyman.

Since when do graphics take priority over gameplay; Some of you people make me sick (the people who make the remakes). I will support the hacks who have the potential; the gold hacks; Prism and PR to name a few.

I would expect advanced hackers to be looking up to the gold hackers.

Yeah I know we can't change what people think a good standard is but the whole point of this thread to change all of that.Yeah i'm not flamming i'm being nice. If i see a hack that isn't good (done to early) I'll tell them ways they can improve.

GSC remakes yes they are a waist of time (I dont even call them hacks)
But shiny gold is the only one to make it that far:).
So your right we don't need anymore.

GBC hacks are the best hacks there (my opinion) the graphics don't matter it's about the gameplay and also they have alot of knowledge and can do so much. So i congratulate them *clap*

Yeah I look up to a gold hacker not telling xD

 

[Klingon]

It is a joke to see hackers not changing the maps. They need to be helped and to know on how to change the maps; atleast.

 

[pkmnmaster69]

Well there are some noobs who keep posting to every rom topic just to get their posts up which is annoyin me cause it makes others hacks look bad and there were tons of g/s/c remakers and they quited easily in the past and they hadly got something like 5% or something like that people who do that are considered as zel wonabies.There are some idouts who post "could you make this advance genararion" in the prism thread and the other GBC threads well in the future i will probably see people say "could u hack DP instead" well most newbies are into FR hacks and some of them come out newbish.Most newbies are too attracted to shiny gold too much and they think its the only good hack well there are others.

 

[Klingon]

Coolboyman has done what others have not. Okay; I played the demo. It was awesome; graphics are fine; nothing in hacks are perfect; even Shiny Gold.

 

[ShadowTails]

I personally would like to see more effort... I'd hate to say it but Zel cuts corners in scripting, I'm sorry but in real life you can't walk straight through a solid object, in which that new trainer he put in, that "stalker" dude walks straight through you most of the time, that's just lazy... that and the scripting is done so it looks way unprofessional... I'm sorry but that really bothers me when a character moves around and it looks... meh I mean in that part where your mother is talking to you... compare it to the original game, it doesn't look nearly as professional. Another thing I've seen is people make the characters move with the text box on screen, I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 times that's ever happened in a Pokemon game, but it was usually just the character spinning around, looking left to right.

Bottom line is, if you aren't willing to script out a scene properly and try releasing it to the public, people aren't going to be as impressed with your game or hack, I know I'm not. Say Gamefreak made a new Pokemon game and did the scripting like in the rom hacks you find on this site... I'm sure the game would receive a lot of criticism, even in the GBC days they never walked THROUGH people unless it was like a glitch or something...

I've seen one or two hackers actually give a damn about scripting, Coolboyman is definitely one of them (his demo for his latest hack was awesome.), and Jeremy is also one (from what I've seen in the videos he showed me.) I can't think of many more off the top of my head, but seriously... the only other thing I'd like to see is more variety I'm sure it was mentioned before, but the GBA hacks most people try to pull off look... bluntly put: Bad, because the person doesn't do anything but edit every single thing off the original game and it doesn't look nearly as good as it should.

Oh and people who "translate" hacks, how about you actually SPEAK the language, not run it through an online translator, I seriously am about to kill the person who translated Naranja because of all the minor things they left in, misspellings, incorrect translations of words... ect. (seeing how I am only in Spanish 3, I bet I could better translate the game, but as I am not much of a rom hacker and just do the occasional thing, not to mention that I only work on GBC Pokemon Hacks for the most part.)

 

[Coolboyman]

Well when I script, I try to introduce NEW things to the game, and execute it in a way that Gamefreak would as well (if they put it in such a game). You'll see what I mean with my polished scripts (From beta 1) and the new scripts from Beta 2. And yeah I don't like sloppy scripts, and I consider some of my scripts from Beta 1 sloppy actually. And don't get me started with brown.

And what program did I use to make my scripts for Gold? HEX ONLY. There are NO programs for scripting for Gold, and if there wasn't any scripting programs for the advance games, 95% of the hacks with "scripts" in them wouldn't have scripts in them because the author wouldn't bother how to find out to do it him/herself. Only programs I use is Goldmap (which I helped make) and a German programs GSMusic (which only assigns 1 channel, so it's up to me to link up the channels).

I'm tired of newbs asking me "WAT PROGRMS DED U EUSE?". I wish people would figure out things for THEMSELVES first, like I did.

As for translating, yeah. Don't use an online translator. Words in English can have several meanings, and when it's translated by a program, that meaning in Japanese and other languages might be something else. Such as translating "This is a great game!" in Japanese, it comes out as "This game is big!" I know only very basic Japanese (can only say simple phrases), but if I do translate, I'm going to get someone who knows a hell of a lot more than me so my games don't sound like crap when read by someone from Japan.

 

[bitter_doom]

well im starting another hack, and I'll admit it im a newbie at hacking and im learning so many new things at times, now however i have no idea how to script, i had hex-editor but i had no idea how to use so yeah... back to the point. i think well known hacks get enough people playing them. why not try a new 1? you never know, they might be fun but thats my two cents anyways im out.cya!

 

[ShadowTails]

Well, I mean sure I'm a bit lazy myself. I commented to Zel on how that looked saying it could be improved because it just doesn't look right and he said something to the effect of "ShadowTails thinks my scripting is bad." which I didn't say as I think I replied to him saying that it was good, it just doesn't look right when a character flat out walks through the main character. I mean, I know we're not professionals here, and I know no hack is perfect, or any game as Coolboyman said, which is also true. I just think that cutting corners having a character walk through a solid object, such as a human looks tacky...

 

[thethethethe]

I think that when people start the hack there scripts aren't as good as they should be but they get better as they go. Most of Zel's mistakes (that I've noticed) are early in SG. With my hack, I decided quite a while ago that as soon as I release my first beta of LoD I was going to restart and rescript everything and fix all my mistakes. I agree with CBM's on scripting in hex. People don't even want to palette edit in hex or even change a few bytes for something to work right.
Imagine if there were no tools... Since only a few hackers are willing to learn how to use a hex editor, do you know how many hackers would quit?
When people ask something in the Simple Questions thread and say, "Don't say that I have to use a hex editor," for me, that is one of the most annoying things to hear. I hate that.

 

[ShadowTails]

I like to use a Hex Editor, and that's my main utility, I just use utilities if it involves compression or map editing. If it can be done with a hex editor, I'm all for it and jump to the challenge, but if it isn't and requires decompression and such... I think I'll just wait for someone to figure it out since I'm not too good at finding stuff in roms...

I think hackers should go back and tweak older scripts, or just do them again like thethethethe said and does.

 

[trdrsc]

Hm, I only came to this forum because I recently got interested in Hacking after playing 3 very bad hacks, one on ruby, one on emerald and one on Fire Red, they were called Dragon something I think, and I actually thought they were real games or something because I saw them on a rom site, I haven't been very up to date with pokemon since Ruby and Sapphire came out so for all I knew they could of been, but it was the little things in those games that bugged me, they had some decent features, like a bridge so you could get the badges in whatever order you liked pretty much, but then they had some really sloppy features, like you couldn't catch pokemon without your game freezing, and you could buy masterballs and rare candy's for one dollar, which took the fun out of the game, it kindof reminded me of the missingno or something lol, but also there would be stuff like random black squares, a person who randomly walked on water and houses that actually overlapped your character, also they tried to add new pokemon or something like that, but during their animations in emerald, they would flash back to what their original pokemon was I guess, also they tried to make them funny and kindof failed. Also there would be "Invisible walls everywhere" and Wally for some reason is invisible when you meet him.. It was kindof confusing.
I'll give them credit for a not bad idea, a funny alternative to Emerald, but they got sloppy, after you got to a certain point less and less stuff was edited, but there'd still be glitches and things would happen out of order, the person probably get sloppy after littleroot, and gave up on the seconed half.
I am starting to get interested in Hacking and want to do things right, the fire red modification seems like it was fine but I never even went to viridian city. I think to make a good hack you either need to change everything (like new region, new everything) or make soubtle changes like just the trainers pokemon, and style of houses or something, in any case good hacks are consistant, they're you don't go from pallet town to an underwater city to Pewter, and most importantly take time and fix mistakes,
Although I'm a noob thats my take on this

 

[MsBroccoli]

I'm not an experienced hacker myself, I do tweak my ROMs a little bit for my own pleasure and fun.:P I do have a big interest in playing hacked ROMs, the one thing that does get annoying though is all the unoriginal ideas that keep popping up. I've seen so many pokehacks that are trying to remake the G/S/C and it's so annoying, I've seen two really good remakes; Pokemon Shiny Gold, it's based on the original Gold version, but the hacker also changed it up a lot. There's another pokehack based on Silver version, but it also includes Sinnoh and the Sinnoh region Pokemon. I also don't like the hacks that keep using the official four regions (other than the two games mentioned above) Be original, make up your lands, gym leaders, ect! Those crappy hackers can throw their games out there all they want to get fame or whatever, but only the great games and hackers will prevail. :rambo: