'Innocence of Muslims' Film

[FrostPheonix]

Innocence of Muslims.
A film that recently caused all the controversy. Muslims all over the Arab world are protesting, and several people have already died because of this. Some have raised the idea of censorship to counter any potential future such protests from happening. Do you agree? Do you think the people rioting are right in what they are doing? Do you agree wit the censorship proposal?

Also:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19687386
What do you think?

Personally, I feel that they are over reacting. Sure, I think its horrible that someone posted a video just to discriminate muslims. But the riots are out of control. People are dead because of what one person just said cuz he wanted to. And censorship? Completely against it. It may help stop such religious conflicts, but it would go completely against the civil rights we have.
Discuss!

P.S.: If you are hopelessly behind current news and have no idea what I'm talking about, click this for the BBC's nice little summary.

 

[Cyru]

If I was a Muslim, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing EXACTLY WHAT THE VIDEO SAYS MUSLIMS DO and rioting, I'd just ignore it, plus, I'd think killing someone would be a worse crime against Islam than killing someone, but don't quote me on that.

 

[droomph]

ugh. who would do such a thing...

I honestly think what he said is true. There's such thing as freedom of speech, but insulting other people, not just the Prophet, is inappropriate. I just think there's a fine line between freedom of speech and just being rude.

 

[Livewire]

Another good example of a logical limit to free speech. You can't say crap like this because people will die. Clear and present danger clause. The end.

 

[Esper]

Another good example of a logical limit to free speech. You can't say crap like this because people will die. Clear and present danger clause. The end.

I really don't like the direction that way of thinking goes. People aren't incapable of being peaceful in the face of inflammatory remarks. I, or anyone, should be able to say inflammatory things without fear of being killed because some violent people overreact.

 

[LividZephyr]

"Freedom of Speech" is necessary, even if people do things like this. However, this video is just being used as a rallying cry by terrorist organizations to increase anti-American sentiments, although most Americans do NOT support OR agree with what's in the video. It's really not a significant video in the slightest but the Muslim extremists are making it such so they can get more supporters. It's just disgusting, and I'm not sure which is worse - this video or that people are being lied to about it.

Why don't other people want freedom of speech...? It baffles me what all is going on, and frankly I just don't like all of this bad news...

 

[Ivysaur]

Why don't other people want freedom of speech...? It baffles me what all is going on, and frankly I just don't like all of this bad news...

Because it's easier to make the general population believe what you say is the absolute and only truth if you kill/drop into a torture chamber everybody who dares say anything you disagree with. In a very "strawman argument" way, the moronic Islamic radicals want to use the case of moronic Christian radicals attacking them to ask for a general ban of any speech that contradicts the vision of Mohammed as the prophet of God. Even saying "that is not true"- that's blasphemy, you know.

In other words, we can make an argument about that video being a display of "hate speech", but I'd rather have a stupid guy saying nonsense so we can all debate about that nonsense and prove it wrong than banning it by default.

 

[PerfectBiolizard]

Yeah, I pretty much lost a good majority of my respect for Muslims.

Don't get me wrong, the maker of the video should not have done that.
But seriously Muslims,
Its a freaking Youtube video!
You're killing people over something online!

I would understand if it was the government or something. But no, its some random person online.

 

[Miz en Scène]

Yeah, I pretty much lost a good majority of my respect for Muslims.

Overgeneralization much?
That's the same as me saying I've lost a good majority of my respect towards Americans based on how a few of them in the south act towards anyone who isn't a WASP.

 

[Charicific]

Yeah well, that reaction shouldn't have been done, as it CONFIRMS what the maker of the video laid down. I simply DO understand that frustration, it's so insulting and vexing, however, if I'm in their shoes, NOWAY IN HELL will I kill people who have NOTHING to do with it (American Ambassador). Fortunately, it's just some minority who went out there and caused trouble, even the iconic Islamic country Saudi Arabia didn't give a **** to that video....simply ignore it...

It's also been stated that the killing that happened was part of Militants' conspiracy, so I wouldn't put the blame on the Muslims exclusively, especially since since the flames had been fueled mainly due to Propaganda and Exaggerations by the Media...

All in all, that Video was nothing like freedom of speech, but, as stated a lot of time, was a simply a provocative video EXCUSED by the American freedom of speech. My point is....just because Americans BELIEVE in freedom of speech, it doesn't mean other nations SHOULD accept it and be forced to it. Not saying that such thing happened GENERALLY, but only saying that some people crossed that line...

 

[Esper]

My point is....just because Americans BELIEVE in freedom of speech, it doesn't mean other nations SHOULD accept it and be forced to it.

Except they should. Not because America does it, but because freedom of speech, at least as far as having the freedom to speak your mind without fear of being killed, should be accepted everywhere in the world as it's a human right.

Has anyone actually seen this video? I've seen... something on the internet, but I'm not sure if it's the actual thing people are angry about or not since it's reportedly a cheap video and youtube has no shortage of cheap videos.

 

[Ivysaur]

Except they should. Not because America does it, but because freedom of speech, at least as far as having the freedom to speak your mind without fear of being killed, should be accepted everywhere in the world as it's a human right.

Has anyone actually seen this video? I've seen... something on the internet, but I'm not sure if it's the actual thing people are angry about or not since it's reportedly a cheap video and youtube has no shortage of cheap videos.

It's a horrible mess, worse than most of the shorts we did in my media classes in Uni. The image quality is HD, I'll give them that, but the actual effects are horrible (think cheap B-Movie). Sound is horrible and appears to be recorded underwater, except for the little tidbits when you can clearly notice a completely different voice dubbing the actors' lines at certain points and replacing key words with "terrorism", "Muhammad", etc. (the actors said the movie was about a completely different dude called George leading a gang of evil guys, that was replaced in post-production by "Muhammad and his sect of muslims", go figure why >_>). You can still try to figure out what they were originally saying by reading their lips! It's top-quality stuff. Editing is cheap and lazy (a guy clearly inside a tent talking directly to someone standing completely outside?) and the pacing seems taken from a bad 90's videoclip.

Oh, and the guy who hands Geor- I mean, Muhammad, into adoption is wearing a 110% fake-looking beard. It's the icing on the cake.

 

[LividZephyr]

I never wanted to see that video. It isn't worth my time because I don't ever see myself agreeing with anything so hateful. Why can't anyone focus on the positives anymore? Why is this Presidential Election delving into constant personal attacks on one another as opposed to self-promotion? It's a recurring trend everywhere.

Freedom of speech is necessary. Even if there's brutal honesty, you shouldn't be killed for disagreeing with someone else. I do hope that the guy who made this video is arrested for all the things on his record (if he hasn't already been), but as Google outright stated, it didn't violate their policy when it was reviewed. It's expressing an opinion and it's sure to make people angry, so I do agree with that point - it's nonsense and we can call him a moron for trolling a huge amount of the world's population. Maybe we can give that guy to Iran for Ahmadinejad to do whatever he wants. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Free speech is necessary, but that also means there's no law against stupid or troll. Ultimately, that's what's killing society - mixed with selfishness and egotism. People need to be trained better... and I don't see that happening :/

 

[Dr.Kotov]

I really don't like the direction that way of thinking goes. People aren't incapable of being peaceful in the face of inflammatory remarks. I, or anyone, should be able to say inflammatory things without fear of being killed because some violent people overreact.

generally, whenever i degrade & adulterate the very core and crux of someone's existence and belief (every friday btw) i expect a punch in the face. which is extremely optimistic on my part. :)

Yeah, I pretty much lost a good majority of my respect for Muslims.

haha, is this for real?

i'd be grateful to listen to any sound reasoning so as to why youtube refused to remove it though.. i can't convince myself.

 

[Esper]

generally, whenever i degrade & adulterate the very core and crux of someone's existence and belief (every friday btw) i expect a punch in the face. which is extremely optimistic on my part. :)

Fair point. Some people might deserve a punch in the face for inflaming people, but sometimes the intention isn't to inflame as much as it is to criticize. Plenty of things that could cause as much anger have been made in the past. Like the American civil rights movement and so on. That made a lot of people mad and some were killed for it. But it was still right for them to push for it.

haha, is this for real?

i'd be grateful to listen to any sound reasoning so as to why youtube refused to remove it though.. i can't convince myself.

Because it's free speech? As far as I know it doesn't call on anyone to act violently. And by now the damage is done. Taking it down isn't going to stop people from seeing it (though honestly I'm sure most the people angered by it haven't actually seen it and are just riding a wave of anti-American sentiment) because it's gonna be available elsewhere. Taking it down might make it look like America is bowing to their concerns - which I think sets a bad precedent - but since a lot of the violent anger is being pushed by radicals they aren't going to be reasonable anyway.

 

[Dr.Kotov]

so, videos involving any racially offensive material not only get taken down, but warrant a ban on the user, in the most minor of cases, but anything that's no less than the worst of religious attacks can stay? it's not a question about what can be done now rather what should have been done.

you're right though. everyone in my country protesting violently has a wide smile on their faces on camera & none of them can even afford computers. illiterate rage. honestly. the video only blew up once the government issued requests for it to be removed. by then youtube was already blocked. i can't access the site, and every other google provided services are also suffering.

btw, people still dying. riots still continuing here.
not to mention the property damage.

 

[Livewire]

I really don't like the direction that way of thinking goes. People aren't incapable of being peaceful in the face of inflammatory remarks. I, or anyone, should be able to say inflammatory things without fear of being killed because some violent people overreact.

You can't reason with extreme fundamentalists though. In this case, It's the only option you have in dealing with people who have been so brainwashed by their radical, fundamentalist/theocratic governments.

 

[LividZephyr]

It wasn't removed because Google doesn't prevent freedom of speech in its videos, and there's no clause saying hate speech is disallowed. It's discouraged and people are free to make fun of it all they want, but that doesn't mean you can't post it. Maybe hate stuff should be disallowed, though... that's a hard one to decide. Limit free speech to protect hate groups, or allow anything? Hmmm...

 

[ℨᶾanana]

They condemn Islam, try you all feel how cursed your religion, how it is that they feel .. they feel like going to kill all the bad luck that makes video ... Muslims all over the world people are all angry, because with a video it can cause world war ..

 

[Esper]

so, videos involving any racially offensive material not only get taken down, but warrant a ban on the user, in the most minor of cases, but anything that's no less than the worst of religious attacks can stay? it's not a question about what can be done now rather what should have been done.

you're right though. everyone in my country protesting violently has a wide smile on their faces on camera & none of them can even afford computers. illiterate rage. honestly. the video only blew up once the government issued requests for it to be removed. by then youtube was already blocked. i can't access the site, and every other google provided services are also suffering.

btw, people still dying. riots still continuing here.
not to mention the property damage.

Can you call something that doesn't actually include any physical attacks the "worst of religious attacks" though?

Just because the reaction to this video is so large means it should be censored? Shouldn't we decide what should get censored based on what it is not how people react to it? Something less offensive (or not even really offensive at all) could get a lot of publicity and outrage thousands or millions while something less well know but more hateful could slip by and the less hateful one would get censored.

What I mean to say is we can't cherry pick what we decide to ban based on the whims of easily offended people. We have to be systematic to be fair or someone could overreach and take away someone's right to free speech.