Is it unreasonable for us to expect Misty to return?

[Vernikova]

Spidey-senses are tingling?

 

[Spinor]

Nope, My Gratoh Senses are tingling. Some Misty fan will probably pop up out of nowhere and flame the crap out of me and some others.

 

[Vernikova]

They can always be ridiculed and their dignity can be mines.

But so far it has been pretty calm so... No need to worry! *shot*

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Actually, there is aura in everyone. It's just stronger in some people Jorah.

Edit: Almost everything you listed for Misty were in filler episodes Weedle.

Filler episodes, important episodes, makes no difference. Besides, Ash also does stuff that would be considered filler material as well, and yet you claim it's the most important thing he does. Heck, the entire Battle Frontier and Orange Islands league were nothing more than filler (at least, by fan convention), yet people claim they are important. most of May's contest wins were filler as well (and in the case of Kanto, ALL of them, since they weren't in the games, and were also pointless.). If people claim all the things Ash did, filler episode or not, were "important", then by my belief on egalitarianism, what Misty's done is just as equally important.

I agree with you on Aura, since, as it's present in everyone, even THAT doesn't exactly separate Ash from the rest.

In case you didn't pay attention the first time:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidekick:

"Hero Sidekicks not only provide comic relief but can occasionally be brave or resourceful at times and rescue the hero from some dire fate: such as Streaky the Supercat of Krypto the Superdog or Festus Haggen of Gunsmoke's Matt Dillon or even Paul Reiser to Helen Hunt from Mad About You."

"While many sidekicks are used for comic relief, there are other sidekicks who are less outrageous than the heroes they pledge themselves to, and comedy derived from the hero can often be amplified by the presence or reaction of the sidekick. Examples include Porky Pig, who was more sensible and calmer than Daffy Duck in later short films; Sancho Panza is more rational than his master, Don Quixote."

In conclusion, there are about as many sidekicks more competent than the hero as there are "coward" sidekicks. Your definition of sidekick fails.

well, even IF there are just as much braver sidekicks as cowardly sidekicks, I already checked TVTrope.org and analyzed all possible aspects of Sidekick by fan viewpoints on Misty, and none of them even HAD Misty on the list, so Misty being a sidekick is a moot point, as she isn't ever labeled one as well (I also checked wikipedia, and Misty wasn't labeled as a sidekick on there, either. In fact, the only one of the main cast whose labeled as a "Sidekick" per se is Pikachu, which even then, it also hints that Ash may be the true sidekick as Pikachu does more of the action than Ash.

Also, just to put the whole "She needs action and lots of battles to be important" thing to a rest that it so deserves, let me just show you what exactly happened when someone DID try and do just that (and utterly failed).

From the Simpson episode "Beyond Blunderdome":

% That next day, Mel and Homer prepare to show the new, improved "Mr.
% Smith Goes to Washington." As it begins, Gibson, as Mr. Smith, is
% nearing the end of his filibuster speech.

Gibson: Well, I'm not licked. I'm going to stay here and fight for
this lost cause. Somebody will listen to me. Somebody will
... [collapses on the floor[
Payne: I believe the Senator has yielded the floor.
Gibson: [wakes up] Yield this, Senator Payne.
[throws an American flag like a javelin, striking Payne. He
falls on his desk, the flagpole now standing upright]
-- "Beyond Blunderdome"

% Gibson grabs two other senators and slams their heads inside two
% desks.

Gibson: I move, we impose some serious term limits.
Homer: [from the press gallery] I second that motion. [holds up a
rifle] With a vengeance! [tosses rifle to Gibson]
-- Why didn't Jimmy Stewart think of this? "Beyond Blunderdome"

% Catching the rifle, Gibson jumps up on a table and quips, "All in
% favor, say die." Then, spinning around on a table like Curly, the
% guns down most of the senators. The Senate leader complains that
% Gibson's actions are "highly unorthodox," and pounds a gavel. Gibson
% throws a fire extinguisher under the gavel, and when the leader hits
% it, it explodes. The explosion fills the building with smoke, and
% sends the statue on top of the Capitol Dome into the river.
%
% Just then, an aristocratic man storms in and identifies himself as
% the President of the United States. He demands to know what all the
% commotion is about. Gibson rips the National Seal down from the wall,
% and tosses it at the President, slicing off his head. The head lands
% at Gibson's feet. He picks it up and grimly says, "Happy birthday,
% Mr. President." A crowd of happy schoolchildren bursts in and carries
% Gibson off, cheering. Gibson takes his badge, and throws it into the
% dead Payne's hand. Payne's hand clutches it, and then relaxes. The
% lettering on the badge is changed to, "The End."
%
% The lights come up in the screening room.

Gibson: Pretty cool, huh?
Christian: You, uh, you chopped off the President's head.
Gibson: Bet you didn't see that coming.
Hannah: You impaled a United States Senator with the American
flag.
Milo: Why did Mr. Smith kill everybody?
Homer: It was symbolism. He was mad.
Christian: But this was going to be the studio's prestige picture,
like "Howard's End" or "Sophie's Choice."
Homer: Ugh. Those movies sucked. I only saw them to get Marge
into the sack. [sotto voce] P. S.: Mission
accomplished. [high-fives Gibson]
Christian: But we already bought five Golden Globe awards.
Gibson: I don't make movies to win awards. [holds up two Oscar
statuettes; speaks in sotto voce] Especially now that I
have two Oscars. [normal voice] I make movies for guys
like him.
Homer: Yeah, guys like me.
Christian: Who are you, anyway?
Homer: Do the words Executive Producer mean anything to you?
Gibson: Executive Producer?
Homer: We'll talk.
Christian: [takes film off the projector] You desecrated a classic
film. This is worse than "Godfather III."
Gibson: Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa! Let's not say things we can't
take back.
Christian: All right, all right, I'm sorry. But this film is never
going to see the light of day. [takes a lighter to the
film, intending to set it aflame]
[Gibson and Homer gasp]
Gibson: [pointing out the window] Look -- they're towing away a
Range Rover.
[Christian, Milo, and Hannah run to the window to look]
Hannah: There's no --
Gibson: [grabbing film] Yoink! C'mon Homer, we've got a movie
to premiere.
Homer: Woo hoo! [Gibson and Homer beat a hasty retreat]
Christian: We've got to get that film back or we're all going to
get fired, you know what I mean?
Milo: Yeah.
Christian: Huh?
Milo: Yeah.
Christian: Huh?
Milo: Yeah.
Christian: Huh?
Milo: Fired.

And if you have watched this Simpson episode, you'll know EXACTLY how audiences (in-episode, not the actual audience) reacted to this kind of ending (not to mention who ended up being in the right all along.).

Now do you guys see exactly what I mean by "If you try and make Misty too action oriented, it would turn out to be a disaster"?

I hope so, since I DON'T want to end up having to argue how she did things (and how action (particularly too much of it) ends up being a total disaster, and thus she shouldn't have too much of it.). So please, don't try to bring it up again.

 

[Singhy]

I don't really mind May/Dawn both weren't that bad of characters and making Misty come back AFTER she worked so hard to be a Water Pokemon master and a gym leader is just silly. Brock is back but of whatever happened with Ivy... plus a travelling breeder makes sense with Brock. Misty finally reached a level of being a renounced water trainer she wouldn't come back for more than a cameo.

 

[Vernikova]

@Weedle: There is a difference is between fillers and no fillers. Filler don't get added into the overall plot of the region: win the league/grand festival. Battle Frontier wasn't filler, they just moved the facilities to Kanto for May's contest.

The way you're sounding, it is as if you think the show=games, which isn't the case.

 

[Katsu Koneko]

Whoops, I forgot that aura was in everyone. xD Though it is stronger in other people like Ash.

I agree with you on Aura, since, as it's present in everyone, even THAT doesn't exactly separate Ash from the rest.

...Have you seen Movie 8?

- Lucario remarked how Ash's aura resembled a lot like Sir Aaron.

- Ash, along with Lucario saved Mew and the tree of beginning using their aura abilities.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4xVPMJOJKY - 3:52)

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I don't really mind May/Dawn both weren't that bad of characters and making Misty come back AFTER she worked so hard to be a Water Pokemon master and a gym leader is just silly. Brock is back but of whatever happened with Ivy... plus a travelling breeder makes sense with Brock. Misty finally reached a level of being a renounced water trainer she wouldn't come back for more than a cameo.

A Pokemon Master (even a Water Pokemon Master) GAINS that title via leagues and other things. Being a Gym leader makes them as much a renounced master trainer as JJM, meaning, not much, not even close. Plus, losing to trainers (especially rookies) doesn't really compliment someone's strength. Heck, JJM lose to rookies, and as a consequence, are labeled as pathetic losers. How is being a Gym leader any different?

Besides, the "Traveling Breeder" excuse doesn't make any sense since he can just as easily accomplish that alone.

@Dark Lugia, even if that was the case, people are acting like whatever Ash does, filler episode or not, is absolutely important to the overall plot. And plus, people labeled Battle Frontier AND the Orange Islands as mere "filler regions". Plus, Ash won the Orange League (filler or not, it still happened), and they never referenced it again. Heck, most things that are plot important (like captures, releases/loans, even gym badges and leagues) are barely ever referenced again, if at all. As far as I'm concerned, since they aren't referenced later on (like how most people attribute to "filler"), important to the plot at the time or not, it's ultimately not any different from filler material.

I mean, how many of Ash's wins were referenced? How many episodes of the anime, important or not, actually get referred to again? very darn little, as far as I know. It's even rarer, also, to have them be correct about it (for example, May stated she used Beautifly in the Fallabor contest, when she actually used Skitty. Also, Brock often states things that he shouldn't canonically know about (for example, he recognized Ash's Lapras despite not having ever seen it, or how he mentions what and how Ash and May met and how they were doing for the first three episodes of Hoenn in a way that made it seem that he was with them all along despite not actually being present [at that time, he was either a. taking care of family problems, or b. already on his way to hoenn, but not quite there yet.]

Besides, there have been some hints that the games = anime (for example, Vulpix in the games is born with six tails instead of one as the Pokedex implies, and in May's Egg-cellent adventure, this same little tidbit happens with Vulpix.).

@Katsu: Yes, his level does separate him from the rest (save for MAYBE Aaron), but that still doesn't mean he is the only one who CAN use Aura, or even having it for that matter, which was my point.

 

[Vernikova]

They aren't mentioned because they are unimportant at the time.

Some but not all aspects of the game are put in the show (evil teams, etc).

I agree that not all Ash does isn't filler, but there is no such thing as a filler region. The regions have a plot and are just consider fillers just because they aren't in the games (Barring BF of course).

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

They aren't mentioned because they are unimportant at the time.

Some but not all aspects of the game are put in the show (evil teams, etc).

I agree that not all Ash does isn't filler, but there is no such thing as a filler region. The regions have a plot and are just consider fillers just because they aren't in the games (Barring BF of course).

so, since Ash's gym leader matches go unmentioned after the battle for the most part, and in the case of certain released pokemon (ie, Primeape), they are unmentioned, and even contradicted, they are unimportant, despite playing a part towards the main goal?

Isn't that in essence proving my point? I mean, if gym leader battles and even releases and certain events in Contests get contradicted/unmentioned (by that, I mostly mean between TWO important episodes, though a filler and an important works as well), that would actually prove my point as to how "even important episodes are ultimately no different than filler episodes" and the name is just slapped on just for emphasis.

 

[Vernikova]

It would but what I'm saying at that time it isn't necassary to say something like "Remember when I beat Roxanne's Nosepass" or something when you're doing nothing about a situation such as that. Do you read what I'm tying?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

It would but what I'm saying at that time it isn't necassary to say something like "Remember when I beat Roxanne's Nosepass" or something when you're doing nothing about a situation such as that. Do you read what I'm tying?

Maybe, but even without mentioning it, that doesn't really mean that they should contradict it.

I mean, in the episode "Fan with a Plan", for example, May stated that she used Skitty in the Fallabor contest, when she actually used Beautifly in that contest (Before you jump down my throat saying that it's in the dubbed version and that doesn't count, let me just point out that this exact same error was present in the Japanese version.)

Here's the quote in question:

Ash: "Did you decide? I mean, what kind of pokemon you're gonna use?"
May: "Not yet. Y'know, Skitty was great in the Fallarbor Contest, and my Beautifly's great no matter what. But still, Torchic and Bulbasaur look really good too."

And here's what Dogasu said in regards to this (gee, I'm feeling like Charaxes today.)

Next up,


Ash: "Did you decide? I mean, what kind of pokemon you're gonna use?"
May: "Not yet. Y'know, Skitty was great in the Fallarbor Contest, and my Beautifly's great no matter what. But still, Torchic and Bulbasaur look really good too."


At first glance, that's a dialogue goof-up, right? After all, May used her Beautifly in Fallarbor Town, right? Of course she did.


The thing is, this goof-up is present in the Japanese version as well; all 4Kids did was translate it. While 4Kids could have gone above and beyond the line of duty and fixed the error for the English version, you really can't be mad at them for this.

Though, granted, technically that should have been listed on his comparison as a Side note comment than an ACTUAL dialogue edit (since it was present in the japanese version), but still, that at least shows what I mean. Even if they didn't have to reference an important thing (because it isn't needed at the time other than for continuity's sake), on the rare occasions that they DO reference it, can't they at LEAST try and keep it in continuity rather than contradict it?

 

[Charaxes]

And here's what Dogasu said in regards to this (gee, I'm feeling like Charaxes today.)

You mocking me, boy? Hehe. Hey, if the commentary was apt, I got to go with it. I just wish I said it, myself. I have to admire Dogasu's frank straightforward ness, if nothing else. I'd phrase things differently, but the intent is there.

I'm half tempted to throw in my own -2 cents (for the moment). Though, as this Misty sidekick business, nah. She doesn't act like a sidekick, as more "another main protagonist." Would Brock be considered a sidekick? Hmm.... The only real sidekick is the rat, really, despite how the producers would have you think otherwise. Hmm....

It's almost 6:00 AM for me, so "Hmm" is what you may get.

 

[Trap-Eds]

Weedle...it kinda feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. With all your explanations, we can all pretty much tell you want Misty back in the show...let's just leave it at that and move on. :)

 

[Spinor]

Yes, let's please move on. You want Misty back. We get it. Just stop it before I run another 1.5 hour while punching a Weedle.

Misty will not make a permanent return, simple as that. Misty fans, get with your life and move on. Watch the anime or not. All this bragging is getting on my nerves.

 

[Charaxes]

Let's maintain the civility, people.

Wow, this thread is getting incredibly long -- how about that?

 

[Jorah]

Actually there's been three episodes (can't believe you forgot them Jorah xD). The last two hasn't been shown in the US (they were skipped because it had to deal with the new Pokémon Ranger game or something).

Spoiler:

DP071 & DP072 - Throughout the special, Satoshi kept on having these flashes, which later proved to be his aura ability kicking in. He saw into Riolu's memories and surprised everyone that he could do such a thing since he talked to Riolu about its home. Also, he concentrated on locating the said Pokémon with this new found ability when it was captured by Pokémon Hunter J.

Yup, I'm reading them all. :D

I started watching Japanese episodes from DP76 so that's why I didn't even know haha. Great to know more aura stuff is coming back. The only thing I'm worried about is they'll do what they did with the GS Ball and end up not going into why Ash's aura is special. But if that really was true, they wouldn't have mentioned aura after the 8th movie.

so, since Ash's gym leader matches go unmentioned after the battle for the most part, and in the case of certain released pokemon (ie, Primeape), they are unmentioned, and even contradicted, they are unimportant, despite playing a part towards the main goal?

Isn't that in essence proving my point? I mean, if gym leader battles and even releases and certain events in Contests get contradicted/unmentioned (by that, I mostly mean between TWO important episodes, though a filler and an important works as well), that would actually prove my point as to how "even important episodes are ultimately no different than filler episodes" and the name is just slapped on just for emphasis.

There's a difference between playing a part towards the main goal and playing a part towards the filler episode goal

Let's maintain the civility, people.

Wow, this thread is getting incredibly long -- how about that?

Haha, that's what I thought. A lot of the threads don't get to 4 pages in 1 month, I'm sure.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

There's a difference between playing a part towards the main goal and playing a part towards the filler episode goal

Umm... neither "A Fan with a Plan" nor "Come What May" were "filler" episodes (since you said that Pokemon Contests, even those not in the games, aren't fillers...) and yet they still messed up despite that.

though let's end this, please close the thread, mods, lest we make it into a flame war (though we will wait until Jorah has responded with this.).

 

[Jorah]

I haven't watched many Advanced Challenge episodes, and I don't think I've watched either of those.

 

[Spinor]

Umm... neither "A Fan with a Plan" nor "Come What May" were "filler" episodes (since you said that Pokemon Contests, even those not in the games, aren't fillers...) and yet they still messed up despite that.

though let's end this, please close the thread, mods, lest we make it into a flame war (though we will wait until Jorah has responded with this.).

Then just DON'T flame. Simple as that. Misty fans really need to take a chill pill dude. There really shouldn't be any at all actually. If you didn't like the way the show went. Either get over it or don't watch it. People will start ignoring all of them by the time G5 comes out. Seriously.