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Metagame Discussion Thread

ChronicEdge

Space Lion
  • 404
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    Years
    Off of what you guys were just talking about (kinda), what do people really think about originality in teams, even if you're using OU/Ubers/whatever? I personally think that people should try to have at least one Pokemon on their team that no one's ever seen before. I'm not saying to use a Choice Band Caterpie, but I think that it would be nice if people could come up with a way to seriously battle that hasn't been used before by picking one Pokemon, considering all of its options, and then not doing whatever they immediately thought of.
     

    .Aero

    Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
  • 1,767
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    When I first started out in competitive battling, I would make teams of fully unique pokemon. :/ But that's because I didn't know what was good and what wasn't. I didn't know about tiers and the like.

    Now, I feel originality is a minor part of the game itself. Don't get me wrong however, I'm an originality freak when it comes to most games, but originality in this game comes at the cost of losing powerful pokemon (most of the time).

    Usually I go for pokemon that perform well together and sometimes that strange pokemon can work its way into my team. It's just a little too minor for me to actually worry about most the time, honestly. But that's only with this specific game. Any other game and you'll see me using strange things (namely the Call of Duty franchise. Online, I'll use some of the least common guns and they work wonders for me, but others prefer to join the crowd and use the most common guns at the time).

    I do try to look for unique sets for pokemon though, or at least change a few things up from the Smogon sets. :/ My main example would be Rotom-C and putting HP[Fire] on him, which is not suggested by Smogon for the set I was using. I only put it on my team because I had no Fire type attacks, and since Scizor is so common, I knew it'd come in handy. Now Rotom-C is the star of my team and HP [Fire] is probably my most used move (out of Leaf Storm, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball).
     

    Pirate Dave

    かいぞく デイヴ
  • 87
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    I was so surprised looking at that to see Alakazam at ike 5% usage, I guess people dont think its bulky enough but I really like it (lol you may guess from the Avatar). I suppose its the crap HP / Def that stops it from being used more. Oh well maybe in HGSS there will be a Move Tutor to teach it Aura Sphere or something lol.

    EDIT:- Thinking about it one of the only reasons I have any sort of success with Alakazam is I spend the battle protecting it and trying to make sure it can OHKO any/everything thats left.
     
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    Jake♫

    ► My Happy Little Pill 
  • 2,941
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    16
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    I was so surprised looking at that to see Alakazam at ike 5% usage, I guess people dont think its bulky enough but I really like it (lol you may guess from the Avatar). I suppose its the crap HP / Def that stops it from being used more. Oh well maybe in HGSS there will be a Move Tutor to teach it Aura Sphere or something lol.

    EDIT:- Thinking about it one of the only reasons I have any sort of success with Alakazam is I spend the battle protecting it and trying to make sure it can OHKO any/everything thats left.

    Alakazam had its golden age in the beginning of the DP metagame, when Pursuit wasn't as command and Scizor wasn't flying around. It is too frail to operate properly anymore, especially with Bullet Punches flying all over the place and Pursuit going lol.
     

    Anti

    return of the king
  • 10,818
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    I never knew an opinion could be wrong, but I guess I was wrong on that too. :/

    I'll throw in the towel. You win. You happy now? The new-ness of Scizor is what got him going. After that, it's all stat-based.

    Yes, an opinion can be wrong. "North Korea is a much better nation than France" is as wrong as you can get. "Luvdisc is a better special sweeper than Alakazam"...and so on.

    But dude, you just quit the argument saying I won and then stated exactly what isn't true. Scizor being new isn't what got it going. Scizor being effective is what got it going because competitive Pokemon is about winning. You can't logically argue against that. Newness does not determine usage. Effectiveness does. End of discussion.

    Off of what you guys were just talking about (kinda), what do people really think about originality in teams, even if you're using OU/Ubers/whatever? I personally think that people should try to have at least one Pokemon on their team that no one's ever seen before. I'm not saying to use a Choice Band Caterpie, but I think that it would be nice if people could come up with a way to seriously battle that hasn't been used before by picking one Pokemon, considering all of its options, and then not doing whatever they immediately thought of.

    Novelty works well to an extent, but it's usually effective exclusively for luring since that's the only time when a surprise actually would translate to a kill. If you can lure successfully, then it's done its job. Being creative or different for the sake of being creative or different (or even for the sake of having a surprise) is going to lead you into trouble on most occasions. You have to be original with a purpose or you're just wasting a team slot.

    EDIT: Alakazam was hurt much more by the rise of Scizor than by the rise of Pursuit, just like Gengar...but without cool defensive typing and trait. Oh well.
     

    Pirate Dave

    かいぞく デイヴ
  • 87
    Posts
    17
    Years
    Alakazam had its golden age in the beginning of the DP metagame, when Pursuit wasn't as command and Scizor wasn't flying around. It is too frail to operate properly anymore, especially with Bullet Punches flying all over the place and Pursuit going lol.

    Yeah, in my post when I said I had to protect it I wasnt kidding, I basically have to scout for anything with a priority move, anything fat and pink, anything with any sort of physical move that might be Scarfed, etc, etc.

    I guess one of the things about the Metagame, especially the OU Metagame is that you have to decide whether you will have more fun winning every battle, or more fun battling with (some of) your favourite Pokémon. Personally I am going to be using Alakazam in every team I build because I cba just using ones I think will help me win if I dont like them. I mean it took me til this week to get Blissey cos I HATE Blissey, but I was losing too many battles cos of my lack of one.

    EDIT:- What do you guys rate the chances are of Alakazam moving tiers? I mean His SpAtk and Speed are most likely too high to send him to UU, but maybe he will go back to BL again, where he was when I first started competitively battling.
     
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    Dark Azelf

    ☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
  • 7,210
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    • Seen Jun 11, 2024
    @Above user, every team does not need a Blissey to win.

    Pretty much Scizor is used alot because of Bullet Punch and i mean it can do a number of jobs good too. Sweep with the SD set, soften up the foe team with CB U-Turns (which can be huge in wearing down counters and giving you momentum) and as said become a psuedo revenge killer with just that nasty STAB Bullet Punch alone, heck the guy can even Pursuit stuff. Its typing also allows it to switch in easily too which goes along way. Basically it can fill a lot of niches in your team.

    That and finding a counter or check that doesnt have a downside is quite hard to find (see: Stealth Rock weak, pursuit bait in the rotoms case etc). Its probably one of the reason Heatran is #4 too since its its the check with least drawbacks.

    TL;DR im not hyping it up per se, but you have to admit Scizor does multiple jobs and it does them well.

    | Gengar | Move | Substitute | 18.6 |
    | Gengar | Move | HP-Fire | 17.3 |

    Finally people are become less poop in their use of platinum Gengar and are starting to take note of its Pursuit bait-ness.
     

    Pirate Dave

    かいぞく デイヴ
  • 87
    Posts
    17
    Years
    @Above user, every team does not need a Blissey to win.

    You say that, but it undeniably helps. I mean you would have to have a very specific team for Blissey not to help, maybe if you already have things weak to Fighting or something… remember even when you are competitively battling there are still some people who dont have a clue and use, say Alakazam all the time. (Like me :P )

    PS:- I am really glad I re-discovered the PokéCommunity forums, as I nerd I find discussions like this really interesting. Good work everyone! Lol. :D
     
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    Jake♫

    ► My Happy Little Pill 
  • 2,941
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    Walls are not required in today's metagame anymore. The prominence of checks instead of walls and counter is what really makes the offensive nature of our metagame. Most people just use resistances to get in and out, with no need for something like Blissey. Does she do more than wall? Sure, Wish Passing, status curing, and status spreader. Wish passing is always good, but using Aromatherapy says "I'm set-up fodder!".
     
  • 129
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen Jul 18, 2011
    Well, the suspects will be concluded soon.

    Garchomp will move down

    Latias will stay


    Latios will stay in Ubers

    Skymin = Uber

    Manaphy? I dont want it to come to OU, as RD teams are already quite overpowered. I do think itll come down to OU


    Tbh I want OU to stay the same.
     

    Jake♫

    ► My Happy Little Pill 
  • 2,941
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    Dear god. Now EVERY team is going to have Dugtrio on its team. It's just gonna trap everything and kill it (Though RD teams can basically mow through it still, but they can mow through UU in general :P)

    And Umbreon's back in OU, let's see how long this charade lasts. :D

    Dear lord. That thing is more fail than Sarah Palin (SMASHED!). I'm thinking its going to take, say, 2 weeks max for it to get knocked down back to UU. "I'm fighting weak, so come on in Infernape/Machamp/Lucario/<Insert anything with a fighting move here>"
     

    Dark Azelf

    ☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
  • 7,210
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    • Seen Jun 11, 2024
    This should be fun to abuse.

    Swellow + Duggy. U-Turn to Duggy who removes swellow counters aka rocks and steels.

    Dugtrio + Magneton. Wow this will be annoying, the adv trapping duo is back. >.<

    CB Phan can probably 2hko like all of uu. Fire Fang/EQ/Ice Shard/Stone Edge, seems nifty.


    Ekeke. >;]
     

    Jake♫

    ► My Happy Little Pill 
  • 2,941
    Posts
    16
    Years
    This should be fun to abuse.

    Swellow + Duggy. U-Turn to Duggy who removes swellow counters aka rocks and steels.

    Dugtrio + Magneton. Wow this will be annoying, the adv trapping duo is back. >.<

    CB Phan can probably 2hko like all of uu. Fire Fang/EQ/Ice Shard/Stone Edge, seems nifty.


    Ekeke. >;]

    LOL! Dear god, that is just going to tear apart EVERYTHING. Let's do some damage calcs.

    CBDuggy (Adamant Nature, full attack EVs) vs standard wall Steelix: 426 Atk vs 436 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 212 - 252 (59.89% - 71.19%). Guaranteed 2HKO. There goes Swellow's #1 counter.

    CB Duggy (See above) vs 252 HP/252 Def Bastiodon: 426 Atk vs 478 Def & 324 HP (100 Base Power): 384 - 456 (118.52% - 140.74%). Lol, OHKO always. That thing resists all of Swellow's moves .25x too :P. I won't even bother with Probopass.

    I'm not going to even bother with Duggy and Magneton. Basically, the special walls in UU will either get 2HKOed or OHKOed, as they mostly have crap defense. Just saving time there :P
     

    Aurafire

    provider of cake
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    Uh oh...Duggy and Donphan in UU. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a heck of a lot of them for a while. I'm really not sure there's much that can stop Dugtrio from doing it's job and doing it well....Same thing with Donphan, who probably gets at least a 2HKO on everything.

    *goes to make UU team* >:D
     

    .Aero

    Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
  • 1,767
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    I'm guessing Umbreon will last 1 and half weeks...maybe. I don't even care about usage at this point. With so many fighting type pokemon (or fighting type moves) in OU, it's not going to stand a chance. Also Scizor could probably own it.

    Note that I'm not taking the most common EV's/Nature, just making it a worst case scenario for Scizor.

    U-Turn w/LO - Scizor (Max Atk; +Nature) - Umbreon (max HP/Def; +Nature): Damage: 57.36% - 67.51% 2HKO right there without SD.
    SD U-Turn w/LO - Scizor (Max Atk; +Nature) - Umbreon (max HP/Def; +Nature): Damage: 112.94% - 132.99% OHKO w/SD with a free switch.

    Superpower w/LO - Scizor (Max Atk; +Nature) - Umbreon (max HP/Def; +Nature): Damage: 64.72% - 76.14% 2HOKO w/out SD.
    SD Superpower w/LO - Scizor (Max Atk; +Nature) - Umbreon (max HP/Def; +Nature): Damage: 128.43% - 151.02% Guaranteed OHKO w/SD.

    I only did Scizor because I'm too lazy to go do Lucario, HP [Fighting] Gengar, ect., ect. It just shows how terrible Umbreon will perform in OU. It's so easily set-up on, so I wouldn't worry about getting those Swords Dances in either. :/ I don't see it lasting long at all.
     

    ChronicEdge

    Space Lion
  • 404
    Posts
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    Years
    Oh, god.

    *EXPLODE*

    CB Donphan in UU.

    They _actually_ did it.

    I'm going to be playing in NU for the next bit; anyone want to join me?
     

    Syaoran

    most likely hates your guts
  • 705
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    Umbreon will be OU for the next 3 months, no matter how low usage it gets. That's when the OU list is updated.

    Donphan in UU seems reasonable, it really belongs there. Dugtrio will start raping UU in 3..2..1
     
  • 2,001
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    • Seen Feb 1, 2010
    Oh man , Duggy in UU? I should Pack with me Swellow , Facade will sure lol at Duggy
     
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