Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post)

[ShivaDF]

...what Pokemon is this?

This is so embarrassing, so I didn't want to say. But

Spoiler:

I use Dusknoir in my UU team, and I find it perfectly viable in that tier. Because of this, I think Dusknoir should be in RU, not in PU. I was curious as to whether or not I could get it bumped up to RU, or even to NU, or whether the tiers are too usage-based for me to do this.

 

[Juxapose]

Normally, an Iron Head from a max Attack Mega Steelix (whether it's Adamant/Brave or a neutral nature), would've OHKOed the offensive Mega Gardevoir variant, but my speculation is that the Mega Gardevoir variant you were up against ran significant defensive EV investment, despite what you said. Bulky Mega Gardevoir is a thing, you know; it still has enough Speed to outspeed other walls like (Mega) Steelix:

Level 100:
252 Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Mega Gardevoir: 266-314 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Mega Gardevoir: 290-344 (85.5 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Level 50:
252+ Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Mega Gardevoir: 152-180 (87.3 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Mega Gardevoir: 138-164 (79.3 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edit: Let me ask you a question: was the Steelix burned? The burn status halves the victim's Attack.

Level 100:

252+ Atk burned Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 192-226 (69.3 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Level 50:

252+ Atk burned Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 100-118 (69.9 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I would like you to read my post again and remind you that this is not a Mega Gardevoir And I will remind you that Steelix was not burned or has any way to reduce it's attack power in any way shape and form.

I would also love to add that Gardevoir (Once again, not mega) was able to OHKO my Mega Steelix while having Light Screen up. This leads me to believe that Gardevoir has invested into Special attack.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I would like you to read my post again and remind you that this is not a Mega Gardevoir And I will remind you that Steelix was not burned or has any way to reduce it's attack power in any way shape and form.

I would also love to add that Gardevoir (Once again, not mega) was able to OHKO my Mega Steelix while having Light Screen up. This leads me to believe that Gardevoir has invested into Special attack.

First of all, there's no need to be rude when you reply back. Second of all, Mega Gardevoir and regular Gardevoir happen to have the exact same base physical Defense of 65.

And I'll ask you another question: was that Focus Blast a critical hit? Critical hits ignore defensive buffs (i.e. ones granted through Iron Defense or Calm Mind):

252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix on a critical hit: 152-180 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix on a critical hit: 210-248 (115.3 - 136.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix on a critical hit: 172-204 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

The third calc is the most likely possibility, as offensive Mega Steelix normally can OHKO Gardevoir with no physical bulk investment with Iron Head.

Once again, you shouldn't be rude about this; I'm just throwing out possibilities.

 

[Nah]

This is a very strange question, but I was wondering... how do I get a pokemon suspect tested? There's a pokemon I think should be in a higher tier than what it's in right now. I have five replays I've collected as proof so far. Who do I turn to with the replays? And will my opinion not be taken seriously unless I'm famously good at battling?

You would probably have to talk to the PU leaders (or whatever tier it is that Dusknoir currently is in) on Smogon about a Dusknor suspect test. Though my guess is that they'd say no. I don't know if they even allow people to suggest things for suspect tests. Though you might as well try anyway. Even if you do get them to start a Dusknoir suspect test though, you'd then need to convince the majority of the PU/NU players that Dusknoir should be banned and sent up a tier.

But suspect tests are meant for Pokemon/moves/abilities that are potentially broken or unhealthy for that tier's metagame. Just because a Pokemon is viable in tiers above the one it's currently classified in doesn't mean that it has to be in a higher tier. Chesnaught, Amoongus, and (Mega) Aerodactyl are all lower tiered than OU, but do have a viable niche in OU. Doesn't mean that they all should be classified as OU though. Perhaps you've found a viable niche for Dusknoir in UU.

However, there is another way to move Dusknoir up in tiers. Use it a lot. Spread the word of Dusknoir's viability in UU. Maybe other people will start using it more too. Smogon's tiers are primarily usage based, so if something is used enough it can move up to a higher tier. Happens somewhat regularly actually. A couple of weeks ago Mamoswine dropped from OU to UU simply because it didn't have enough usage to be considered OU. I even heard once about how a guy actually got Metang to move from NU to RU simply because he and his friends used it that much. Or so I've heard.

 

[Juxapose]

First of all, there's no need to be rude when you reply back.
Once again, you shouldn't be rude about this; I'm just throwing out possibilities.

First off, I am not being rude. I can be rude if you wish, but you were the one being rude in your response.

1. If you did not read the post, don't respond pretending you know what you are talking about.

2. Accusing your fellow forum members that they do not know how to play the game by saying the Pokemon was burned or crit when the member is the only person who knows what happened in the battle, not you. If you need to see what happened in the battle, just request evidence such as the recorded battle instead of just saying that I am wrong because of some strange possibilities that didn't happen; and there would be no way for you to know to make any assumptions.

3. Finally, no, Focus Blast did not crit.

 

[Nah]

First off, I am not being rude. I can be rude if you wish, but you were the one being rude in your response.

1. If you did not read the post, don't respond pretending you know what you are talking about.

2. Accusing your fellow forum members that they do not know how to play the game by saying the Pokemon was burned or crit when the member is the only person who knows what happened in the battle, not you. If you need to see what happened in the battle, just request evidence such as the recorded battle instead of just saying that I am wrong because of some strange possibilities that didn't happen; and there would be no way for you to know to make any assumptions.

3. Finally, no, Focus Blast did not crit.

Let's see the battle video then. It's physically impossible for a regular Gardevoir to both survive a max Attack Mega Steelix's Iron Head and OHKO it with Focus Blast if there really was no burn, no crit, no defensive buffs, and Light Screen was indeed up on your side of the field. Looking at the battle video will be faster than trying to rule out every conceivable thing that could've happened in this thread.

Also what exactly is the Mega Steelix set you're using?

 

[Juxapose]

Let's see the battle video then. It's physically impossible for a regular Gardevoir to both survive a max Attack Mega Steelix's Iron Head and OHKO it with Focus Blast if there really was no burn, no crit, no defensive buffs, and Light Screen was indeed up on your side of the field. Looking at the battle video will be faster than trying to rule out every conceivable thing that could've happened in this thread.

Also what exactly is the Mega Steelix set you're using?

Video:

EBVG-WWWW-WW22-0S8FF

Mega Steelix Set:

Moves
-Iron Head
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock

252 Attack
252 Defence

 

[Nah]

Video:

EBVG-WWWW-WW22-0S8FF

Mega Steelix Set:

Moves
-Iron Head
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock

252 Attack
252 Defence

I see what happened now. The opposing Gardevoir used Calm Mind. Twice. Once on 2/9 and again on 4/9.

Idk if you IV breed for or how many perfect IVs you go for if you do, but I can see from the video that your Steelix has only 6 HP IVs, which just happened to make the difference here (and I have no idea if it's Sp.Defense IVs are perfect or not either, but the calc assumes that):

With your Steelix's HP IV: +2 252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix through Light Screen: 139-164 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a Steelix with a perfect HP IV: +2 252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix through Light Screen: 139-164 (92.6 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

With the Gardevoir living the Iron Head, it probably is one with high Defense investment, and you may have gotten unlucky on the damage roll:

252+ Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 138-164 (95.8 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Though I don't know what your Steelix's nature and Attack IVs are, and if they're less than perfect or the nature's not +Attack that may have effected things as well.

 

[ShivaDF]

But suspect tests are meant for Pokemon/moves/abilities that are potentially broken or unhealthy for that tier's metagame. Just because a Pokemon is viable in tiers above the one it's currently classified in doesn't mean that it has to be in a higher tier. Chesnaught, Amoongus, and (Mega) Aerodactyl are all lower tiered than OU, but do have a viable niche in OU. Doesn't mean that they all should be classified as OU though. Perhaps you've found a viable niche for Dusknoir in UU.

Thank you for the in-depth answer.

So the opinion I've seen that lower-tiered pokemon are just bad and never viable in higher tiers is not true? That's a relief. I guess this also explains why some pokemon have different movesets listed on Smogon under different tiers.

I will just use it as much as possible; I'll build teams around it and see if anybody notices. I would love to live in a world where other players don't call me derogatory words just because I use a Dusknoir.

 

[Juxapose]

I see what happened now. The opposing Gardevoir used Calm Mind. Twice. Once on 2/9 and again on 4/9.

Idk if you IV breed for or how many perfect IVs you go for if you do, but I can see from the video that your Steelix has only 6 HP IVs, which just happened to make the difference here (and I have no idea if it's Sp.Defense IVs are perfect or not either, but the calc assumes that):

With your Steelix's HP IV: +2 252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix through Light Screen: 139-164 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a Steelix with a perfect HP IV: +2 252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix through Light Screen: 139-164 (92.6 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

With the Gardevoir living the Iron Head, it probably is one with high Defense investment, and you may have gotten unlucky on the damage roll:

252+ Atk Mega Steelix Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 138-164 (95.8 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Though I don't know what your Steelix's nature and Attack IVs are, and if they're less than perfect or the nature's not +Attack that may have effected things as well.

This Steelix is not one that I bred. It was an abandoned pokemon from a cartridge that I bought some time ago. It has an impish nature, so I decided to keep and raise it. In battle spot, it does great against physical attackers and wins me many battles especially against fairy and Talonflames.

 

[PlatinumDude]

This Steelix is not one that I bred. It was an abandoned pokemon from a cartridge that I bought some time ago. It has an impish nature, so I decided to keep and raise it. In battle spot, it does great against physical attackers and wins me many battles especially against fairy and Talonflames.

First off, I apologize for the rudeness.

Second of all, to add to what Zekrom said, good IVs can make or break a game, especially in that battle video you posted. Had your Steelix had good IVs in HP and Special Defense, it would've had a better chance of surviving that Focus Blast. Also, it's generally it's not efficient to max out a Pokemon's Defense before you go for its HP; that gives it inefficient bulk all-round. Since (Mega) Steelix's Defense is already crazy-high, you can just max out HP instead, as this also gives it a better chance of living special hits, especially this one. Just keep this in mind. Since your Steelix is already Impish, I'd advise maxing out HP, with just enough Defense to survive a particular physical attack, and put the rest into Special Defense:

(assuming perfect IVs)
+2 252 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Steelix through Light Screen: 138-163 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Note that even without, or with barely some physically defensive investment, Mega Steelix is still very bulky on the physical end:

(example calc)
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Steelix: 80-96 (43.9 - 52.7%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO

(your Steelix's IV's calc with some defensive investment, assuming a perfect Defense IV)

252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Mega Steelix: 68-84 (40.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Juxapose]

First off, I apologize for the rudeness.

I accept your apology. I came to this forum to get help, not start a fight. I apologize as well if I am a little harsh.

And I thank you both for looking into my video and for the advice. I am currently redistributing my Pokemon's stats right now.

 

[Maiko-chan]

I myself have a question, but it only pertains to the Showdown! itself....that and it might sound a bit stupid, considering that it's my first time playing...

 

[Emboar]

I myself have a question, but it only pertains to the Showdown! itself....that and it might sound a bit stupid, considering that it's my first time playing...

Yes.

we can't help you if you don't actually ask the question...

 

[Cam365]

when super training will it let me know when one stat is at its max capacity and i can start on the second?

i know its best to split the total points between two stats then give left over 2-4 to HP i was just wondering will i know when I've reached max in one of the two main stats I'm working on?

 

[Nah]

when super training will it let me know when one stat is at its max capacity and i can start on the second?

i know its best to split the total points between two stats then give left over 2-4 to HP i was just wondering will i know when I've reached max in one of the two main stats I'm working on?

It sorta does let you know. When the Pokemon can't have any more EVs in that stat, the next time you try to increase the EVs in that stat it'll say something about how it's maxed out in the stat. I believe that the phrase the game uses is something like "it's [insert stat here] can't go any higher, it's a master of [insert stat here]". Or something.

 

[Cam365]

oh ok awesome thank you! i just didnt wanna not notice i reached max level and keep working that stat out when it won't have any effect

now that I've fully Super trained it is it safe to go ahead and start being leveled up? I'm wanting to grind the elite four but i want dot check and make sure I've done everything right,
bred it with the nature i wanted and with the 5 perfect IV's i wanted in the correct stats
super trained the two stats to max

now start leveling it up?

 

[Nah]

now that I've fully Super trained it is it safe to go ahead and start being leveled up? I'm wanting to grind the elite four but i want dot check and make sure I've done everything right,
bred it with the nature i wanted and with the 5 perfect IV's i wanted in the correct stats
super trained the two stats to max

now start leveling it up?

Yes, now's the part where you start leveling it up and teaching it the moves you want it to know.

 

[Khaotic Kebab]

Say I have a Weavile holding a Focus Sash. A physical attacker hits it and knocks it down to 1HP, at which point the Focus Sash saves it, then is used up. Does that mean that Weavile would then steal the attackers item, provided they made a contact move? Or does Pickpocket activate before Focus Sash? Cause if the latter is true, then that'd kinda suck.
I'm toying with the idea of using my Weavile's Pickpocket Ability to mess up item-reliant physical attackers; that's why I asked.

 

[Anti]

Say I have a Weavile holding a Focus Sash. A physical attacker hits it and knocks it down to 1HP, at which point the Focus Sash saves it, then is used up. Does that mean that Weavile would then steal the attackers item, provided they made a contact move? Or does Pickpocket activate before Focus Sash? Cause if the latter is true, then that'd kinda suck.
I'm toying with the idea of using my Weavile's Pickpocket Ability to mess up item-reliant physical attackers; that's why I asked.

i don't think so. luckily, weavile's best dark stab is knock off, so it doesn't make much of a difference. since weavile is so fast and knock off is so broken, you can just spam it without relying on your focus sash being intact and accomplish what you want without hoping the opp doesn't have sand, hazards, or, well, a special attacker or wall poke to deal with weavile since that's usually how people deal with it anyway. (since weavile is so fast, smart players aren't going to sac their physical attackers just to get damage on it when you can play conservatively against it with more success.)