4th Gen Mystery Gift Shiny Prevention in D/P/P

[xLIVENUDESx]

Hahaha. Bugs are always fixed, so how come it isn't fixed. The ALAMOS event happened in June. The Shaymin is from August. It's been 6 and 4 months respectively.

You also just proved that your claim is false. You said since nothing can tell us if something is legit, then doesn't that mean you can just be making this whole thing up? They could really be legit this whole time.

 

[SCV]

Hahaha. Bugs are always fixed, so how come it isn't fixed. The ALAMOS event happened in June. The Shaymin is from August. It's been 6 and 4 months respectively.

I only finished researching mystery gift pokemon generation about 2 weeks ago. The shiny check feature was introduced only recently and no one had reported it as bugged until now. It will be fixed.

You also just proved that your claim is false. You said since nothing can tell us if something is legit, then doesn't that mean you can just be making this whole thing up? They could really be legit this whole time.

Nothing can tell you something is legit. But there are things that can tell you that its not.

This thread is about providing that something is not legit, which is possible and will be shown. Hopefully I can get other people with no$gba debug to verify this. If interested see this thread for relevant addresses. Just set breakpoints there before talking to the green man.

 

[xLIVENUDESx]

You link to the cesspool of the hacking world? That place is almost as bad as pokesav.org.

If nothing can prove it's legit, and nothing can prove that it isn't, then there's no point in discussing this anymore. If the Darkrai and Shaymin were hacks, then they would show up as hacks in every single checker out there, and they come up as LEGIT in every single checker out there.

Just because you get one stupid program that lets you put a line of where you want coding to start doesn't mean anything. You could just be putting the break points at the wrong spot. Go more in depth.

 

[randomspot555]

Hahaha. Bugs are always fixed, so how come it isn't fixed. The ALAMOS event happened in June. The Shaymin is from August. It's been 6 and 4 months respectively.

People do have lives, you know. It's great that anyone does something for the Pokemon online community, weather that'd be host a fan site, contribute to it, make a hack checker, etc... but if Serebii didn't update his site for 4 months, I wouldn't get on his case about it.

You said since nothing can tell us if something is legit, then doesn't that mean you can just be making this whole thing up? They could really be legit this whole time.

He's right, and if you knew what legit means, you'd know it to be true.

Legit means using only in-game methods of making the Pokemon. The use of any external device was not used. A Pokemon you capture yourself, or obtain from the event yourself, or breed yourself, are examples of legit Pokemon. You KNOW that they're legit. You saw them get captured, hatched, etc...

Legal means this Pokemon conforms to all standards of a legit Pokemon, but it's actual origins are unknown. This is any Pokemon that looks legit, from the summary that you read on the DS screen, to the code it is written in. A legit Pokemon and a legal Pokemon can be identical. The difference being that you know the origin of a legit Pokemon, but not of the legal. An external device may have been used to obtain this, or a parent was hacked and this is the egg result, someone hacked a key item to get to an island, etc... Any Pokemon you get in a trade can be legal, and can be verifyed as such. You can not, however, with certainty say if it is legit or hacked.

An illegal Pokemon is one that can only be made via an external device. Illegal combination of moves, abilities, and so on. This can range from a Flareon with Flare Blitz, the infamous Wonder Guard Spiritomb, or a Belly Drum Aqua Jet Azumarill, or in smaller ways such as a non-event Pokemon in a Cherish Ball, or a Pokemon holding a key item, or a Surf or Flying Pikachu from the 3rd gen events still having it in the 4th gen games. The more common term is "hacked" Pokemon, but the term hack doesn't care if the Pokemon stats line up with in-game methods.

All illegal Pokemon are hacked.
Some hacked Pokemon are not illegal.
All legit Pokemon are legal

You link to the cesspool of the hacking world?

Hacking doesn't automatically discredit someone. If it wasn't for hackers, we'd never have many of the online Pokedexes which are taken straight from the game data, or know about some advanced game mechanics. And while the posters at GameFAQs may not be all doctorate holders, I've never noticed an inordinate amount of hackers there. Maybe they're more vocal since they don't fear a banhammer, but that's it.

 

[Kit-Tsukasa]

Some hacked Pokemon are not illegal

uh....what? some hacked pokemon are not illegal? This statement itself is contradictory. There is no gray area in this discussion. Hacked pokemon are either legal or illegal. If made through any external cheating device the pokemon is illegal, end of discussion...this includes pokesav.

Now regarding the checker, I remember checking my 2 Alamos Darkrai, 2 TRU Manaphy, 2 GS Deoxys all of which I got myself, and what does it do? It considers them hacked while it considers one of my obviously poorly hacked Shiny Agate Celebi and Eigikan Shaymin legit (both of which I know were hacked).

Something wrong with the checker after so long now?

 

[randomspot555]

uh....what? some hacked pokemon are not illegal? This statement itself is contradictory. There is no gray area in this discussion. Hacked pokemon are either legal or illegal. If made through any external cheating device the pokemon is illegal, end of discussion...this includes pokesav.

Legal is JUST referring to the stats (Moves, nature, ability, etc...). A legal Pokemon is identical to a legit Pokemon except that it's origin is unknown (IE you didn't obtain it yourself). If you had read my definitions, you'd know that nothing I posted was contradicted in my post. It is not referring to how the Pokemon was obtained, if they're allowed to be traded on X site, or allowed in a battle within Community Y. If they can be used or traded in Pokemon web sites is up to the staff and their discretion and is completely irrelevant to my post.

You're partially right, in that a legal Pokemon can be hacked. However, if it fits my definition if legal, it can not be told apart from a legit Pokemon unless the hacker fesses up. Any difference (Cherish ball on a non-event, Hypnosis/Mirror Coat both on Milotic, Seismic Toss Blissey that isn't Pal Parked) shifts it out of both legit and legal territory and makes it illegal (and also hacked).

EDIT: I am just providing definitions. I am not pro or anti hacking as far as this post goes, and I really don't want a semantic debate over definitions. If a legal Pokemon to you has to be legit, you don't need to call it legal. You already have a word for it: legit. However, all legit looking Pokes that have unknown origins (they show no signs of being hacked) is what the legal definition is for. And since hacks can be made pretty much perfect (never mind that the vast majority of Pokemon players don't have access to a digital hack checking program, OR know enough about game mechanics and events to identify hacks), the legal definition is needed.

That still didn't answer our primary question. How come the shiny ALAMOS Darkrai and shiny Eigikan Shaymin come out as legit when checked?

How certain are you that they're legit? Did you obtain them at the event yourself? If so, how did it happen? Did you have to soft reset multiple times, or was the first one you received from the Delivery Man shiny?

 

[SCV]

You link to the cesspool of the hacking world? That place is almost as bad as pokesav.org.

Well that is the only place the great tsanth, posted his research.

If nothing can prove it's legit, and nothing can prove that it isn't, then there's no point in discussing this anymore.

Your logic fails you.
In some cases it is possible to prove something is not legit, but only by

If the Darkrai and Shaymin were hacks, then they would show up as hacks in every single checker out there, and they come up as LEGIT in every single checker out there.

No because hack checkers are not perfect and they are only as good as the research that has been put into them. There is no better source for what is possible and impossible that the code itself.

Just because you get one stupid program that lets you put a line of where you want coding to start doesn't mean anything. You could just be putting the break points at the wrong spot. Go more in depth.

Obviously you don't know how the debugger works. You don't get to choose where the coding starts. The code runs normally unless you pause the game. You can set up breakpoints that will pause the game automatically when the game reaches that line of code. Of course to find significant breakpoints is not an easy task. That is the significase of the gamefaqs thread I posted. tsanth is a professional programmer and rediscovered the PID/IV relationship that loadingNOW had discovered. They both did their research using no$gba debug. If you set up break point in the wrong place then the breakpoint is never reach so the game never pauses.

uh....what? some hacked pokemon are not illegal? This statement itself is contradictory. There is no gray area in this discussion. Hacked pokemon are either legal or illegal. If made through any external cheating device the pokemon is illegal, end of discussion...this includes pokesav.

For some people a pokemon is good enough if it can be created by the game, no matter how small the chance is. But something that the game can never create is unacceptable.

The point is that there is no way from telling a pokemon that COULD be created by the game appart from one that WAS created by the game.

Now regarding the checker, I remember checking my 2 Alamos Darkrai, 2 TRU Manaphy, 2 GS Deoxys all of which I got myself, and what does it do? It considers them hacked while it considers one of my obviously poorly hacked Shiny Agate Celebi and Eigikan Shaymin legit (both of which I know were hacked).

Something wrong with the checker after so long now?

Want to post screen shots of the results?

xLIVENUDESx,please post a screen shot of the legal.exe summary saying that the shiny darkrai is a legal mystery gift pokemon.

 

[Kit-Tsukasa]

@SCV: I no longer have the files anymore (old computer died due to viruses) nor can I create them (friend had an R4, but sold it since he stopped playing video games)

I want to say more, but the fact that I'm arguing from someone who got their information from pokesav.org and smogon makes it a waste of my time as I know there won't ever be a conclusion to this (include Serebii and this is the end of discussion since your logic will clearly be faulty at that point). Therefore, the best way to settle this is whatever you believe in. In other words, if you believe that no WC pokes can be shiny except the WCS Milotic, which is preset, that's your belief. Do I care? No, because we are arguing over pieces of data.

However, if you're going to be spreading this kind of rumor, how about doing it on your own site or rather a place where everyone believes this kind of crap. Clearly not everyone here believes it if a moderator has something on you right now. Go take this somewhere else to people who actually give a crap about the hack site at pokesav.org. Not to mention that the only place you seem to have ever posted are on forums/threads regarding hacking <_<

 

[SCV]

@SCV: I no longer have the files anymore (old computer died due to viruses) nor can I create them (friend had an R4, but sold it since he stopped playing video games)

I want to say more, but the fact that I'm arguing from someone who got their information from pokesav.org and smogon makes it a waste of my time as I know there won't ever be a conclusion to this (include Serebii and this is the end of discussion since your logic will clearly be faulty at that point). Therefore, the best way to settle this is whatever you believe in. In other words, if you believe that no WC pokes can be shiny except the WCS Milotic, which is preset, that's your belief. Do I care? No, because we are arguing over pieces of data.

However, if you're going to be spreading this kind of rumor, how about doing it on your own site or rather a place where everyone believes this kind of crap. Clearly not everyone here believes it if a moderator has something on you right now. Go take this somewhere else to people who actually give a crap about the hack site at pokesav.org. Not to mention that the only place you seem to have ever posted are on forums/threads regarding hacking <_<

I am making the video now. You don't care that people are being scammed? I did not say I got my information from smogon or pokesav.org.

I got the information myself, directly from the game's code. By the way notice that it is stated at Serebii that DP events are set to be non-shiny: https://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=358447

But regardless, I get my info from the game not from anyone else. I only mentioned smogon because I don't want to pretend that it was my idea to check for this. It was Color Me Evil who brought up pokesav.

EDIT: I updated first post with a link to the video. Explanation coming soon.

 

[Maple Meganium]

Color Me Evil, xLIVENUDESx: Foot, meet mouth. Mouth, foot.

I researched this info, starting from Smogon, and found a number of different, reputable programmers investigating the matter, including LoadingNOW, who gave us the now-famous Pokéradar odds formula. They all agreed upon the same conclusion:

This information is true. The game literally sabotages your chances of finding a shiny through D/P/Pl's Mystery Gift function by throwing out a random PV ("PID") it calculated if it would make the event a shiny.

Me, personally, I'm fuming at the thought of never being able to obtain shinies from Ranger (Manaphy, Darkrai), but that's just the way things are. Fortunately, Nin' never hosts events in Canada, so I'm not missing out on much more than that. Living with it is much better than denial.

There are easy ways to circumvent programs like pAC. I'm not about to discuss them because I don't wish to encourage hacking.

Anti-cheat software is only as strong as the person using it. Suppose a Burger King Raichu (made-up example) can only be female, and program disassembly has proven this. Suppose you get a male one. You put it through pAC, and Bang! Legit! Odds are, pAC either doesn't know what a Burger King Raichu is or how to tell one apart from any other Raichu.

EDIT: Another interesting note is that they tried to prevent shiny manaphys was well. But I found a bug in the code that makes them possible if you trade the egg you received from the green man and the trainer you traded it to has a "proper" ID and Secret ID.

Sorry, but this doesn't work. If a Manaphy has a shiny PV for your Trainer IDs, the game actually sabotages it upon hatching, and gives it a new, non-shiny PV.

The real shame here is that many people, some from the SHC, wasted hours upon hours of their time trying for something on their games which was genuinely impossible. At least, the fruitless labour will now come to an end.

 

[SCV]

Color Me Evil, xLIVENUDESx: Foot, meet mouth. Mouth, foot.

I researched this info, starting from Smogon, and found a number of different, reputable programmers investigating the matter, including LoadingNOW, who gave us the now-famous Pokéradar odds formula. They all agreed upon the same conclusion:

This information is true. The game literally sabotages your chances of finding a shiny through D/P/Pl's Mystery Gift function by throwing out a random PV ("PID") it calculated if it would make the event a shiny.

Me, personally, I'm fuming at the thought of never being able to obtain shinies from Ranger (Manaphy, Darkrai), but that's just the way things are. Fortunately, Nin' never hosts events in Canada, so I'm not missing out on much more than that. Living with it is much better than denial.

There are easy ways to circumvent programs like pAC. I'm not about to discuss them because I don't wish to encourage hacking.

Anti-cheat software is only as strong as the person using it. Suppose a Burger King Raichu (made-up example) can only be female, and program disassembly has proven this. Suppose you get a male one. You put it through pAC, and Bang! Legit! Odds are, pAC either doesn't know what a Burger King Raichu is or how to tell one apart from any other Raichu.


Sorry, but this doesn't work. If a Manaphy has a shiny PV for your Trainer IDs, the game actually sabotages it upon hatching, and gives it a new, non-shiny PV.

The real shame here is that many people, some from the SHC, wasted hours upon hours of their time trying for something on their games which was genuinely impossible. At least, the fruitless labour will now come to an end.

Actually I thought shiny manaphys were impossible and I found that the game uses the same shiny check and "Special PRNG" to calculate the new PID. But like I said the code has a bug. The game carries out the shiny check with the PID/ID/SID on the egg. However, you can trade manaphy eggs. So if the pokemon would not be shiny with respect to the person who received the egg but it will with the person to whom the egg is traded then it will hatch shiny. Of course resetting for such a manaphy is impossible. A person would have to be very lucky to encounter this scenario.

 

[Maple Meganium]

But this sabotage happens right when the egg is hatched. Meaning it checks the current trainer's IDs and alters Manaphy's PV right before hatching if the egg contains a shiny. I believe that in this scenario, if you save just before hatching the egg, the Manaphy will have a random, variable Nature upon hatching. Not sure on this one though.

Using your Nice Idea, it would be possible to SR, but it would take a long time. Take 2 games. Put the egg on Game #1. Restart Game #2. Trade the egg to Game #2. Save. Hatch the egg. If not shiny, soft reset and trade the egg back to Game #1. Restart Game #2. Repeat process. Too bad this doesn't work.

 

[SCV]

Link to video and explanation of the video now in first post

But this sabotage happens right when the egg is hatched. Meaning it checks the current trainer's IDs and alters Manaphy's PV right before hatching if the egg contains a shiny. I believe that in this scenario, if you save just before hatching the egg, the Manaphy will have a random, variable Nature upon hatching. Not sure on this one though.

Using your Nice Idea, it would be possible to SR, but it would take a long time. Take 2 games. Put the egg on Game #1. Restart Game #2. Trade the egg to Game #2. Save. Hatch the egg. If not shiny, soft reset and trade the egg back to Game #1. Restart Game #2. Repeat process. Too bad this doesn't work.

Trust me it works. Or I can make another video, although I would prefer not to. Actually I had a video in the editing proccess, nearly ready to be released with an article with a big fat "Manaphy Can't Be Shiny" title, but then when I was writing the article I came to the conclusion that if the egg could be traded the sabotaging would not be successful. I literally left my office 5 minutes later and headed home to test this. In fact manaphy eggs can be traded and I made a few test cases to verify that they could hatch shiny under the right circumstances. So I had to cancel the release of the article and the video.

You should realize that it is easier to prove that something is possible than that it is impossible. You just need to verify one example. Give me you ID/SID and I can give you a manaphy egg that will hatch shiny for you. Yes the check happens at hatching time but it happens with the ID and SID of the person who received the egg, not the person hatching it. That is why I called it a bug. Obviously, GF/Nintendo wanted to prevent them from being shiny. Maybe they assumed no one would trade away their manaphy egg?

Anyways the reason the sabotage doesn't work is that the shiny check is done before the OT data is overwritten with the data of the person who hatched the egg.

EDIT: I added some notes about the video at the bottom of the first post.

 

[randomspot555]

However, if you're going to be spreading this kind of rumor, how about doing it on your own site or rather a place where everyone believes this kind of crap. Clearly not everyone here believes it if a moderator has something on you right now. Go take this somewhere else to people who actually give a crap about the hack site at pokesav.org. Not to mention that the only place you seem to have ever posted are on forums/threads regarding hacking <_<

Actually, it wasn't too long ago that the Wi-Fi Trading board banned shiny events as hacks, Serebii still does (say what you will about the members of the site, but I don't see a huge gap in average intelligence between the average SPPF and the averace PC poster and I think Joe knows his stuff)...and unfortunately not many other places have enough of a community to have rules on trading events. And I've still yet to see any evidence that a shiny event can happen, in the case of 4th gen WC/MG Pokemon. Or if it's possible, how to get one.

You're right that SCV could be making this all up. But I've yet to hear a counter to his posts other than "lol hacker"

 

[SCV]

Check the fist post for video and explanation of the video!

You're right that SCV could be making this all up. But I've yet to hear a counter to his posts other than "lol hacker"

Actually its not possible.
I already posted the video and you can compare the code which is there to a DPP rom to see that the code is in the game, and its not just some code I made up.

For example, Search 01494143481C70476589076C using a hex editor in a D/P rom.

For a US rom this is at location 0x1FA10

Notice that these instructions match lines 0x201BA10 to 0x201BA1A (go to 18 seconds into the video and pause)

See I would not be posting about this unless I could prove it. My statement is one that is verifiable by anyone willing to open up a D/P rom in a hex editor.

Also searching for 89F034EED8F72CFD011C0598 will bring up a result at location 0x46FB0.

Compare from 0x46FB0 to 0x45FDF to the lines 0x2042FB0 to 0x2043FDC. (look at 25 seconds into the video)

Finally searching for 094B0A041940 will give a result at 0x6CAAC.

Compare from 0x6CAAC to 0x6CAD1 to lines 0x2068AAC to 0x2068AD0 (at 30 seconds into the video).

The order of the numbers is a little mixed around because the data in the rom is stored in little endian format.

 

[Paolo_MaSter]

SCV Bro, you don't know what you are talking about, just close this thread, that is why xLIVENUDESx is not posting no more, bye, and I may not know a lot about checking pokemon, but i've been collecting events for like 6 months, I stopped due to virus on my computer, and I don't know if I'll be back, but bro, stop, you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Stronkadonk]

There are a few Pokémon that CAN be shiny via Mystery Gift.
ALAMOS Darkrai
Eigikan Shaymin
WCS Milotic
Ranger Manaphy


Although I'm unsure of Ranger Manaphy, ALAMOS Darkrai and Eigikan Shaymin have been shiny before, yet LEGIT. Color Me Evil and xLIVENUDESx both confirmed this.

Are there any other legit shiny events out there you guys?

 

[randomspot555]

SCV Bro, you don't know what you are talking about, just close this thread, that is why xLIVENUDESx is not posting no more, bye, and I may not know a lot about checking pokemon, but i've been collecting events for like 6 months, I stopped due to virus on my computer, and I don't know if I'll be back, but bro, stop, you really don't know what you are talking about.

...that's nice? No one really cares if Poster X stopped posting, or why Poster Y stopped trading. None of this actually refutes anything in the OP.

There are a few Pokémon that CAN be shiny via Mystery Gift.
ALAMOS Darkrai
Eigikan Shaymin
WCS Milotic
Ranger Manaphy


Although I'm unsure of Ranger Manaphy, ALAMOS Darkrai and Eigikan Shaymin have been shiny before, yet LEGIT. Color Me Evil and xLIVENUDESx both confirmed this.

Are there any other legit shiny events out there you guys?

WCS Milotic is obvious, because it was set to be shiny, similar to the Gamestop Zigzagoons of the 3rd gen. Ranger Manaphy was also discussed in the OP (though I believe it was added in an edit).

However, I've yet to see anyone offer evidence other than "it can happen" in regards to the various Woner Card distribution/Mystery Gift received events. Hell, the event list in the trade board still says Movie Shaymin can't be shiny, but it's constantly traded here. While livenudes and Color Me Evil may have evidence, they've yet to present it, or say how one obtains a shiny of these events, or why the conversation I quoted on page one is wrong.

 

[Zebra Thunderhead]

Lalalala.

 

[SCV]

[quot

SCV Bro, you don't know what you are talking about, just close this thread, that is why xLIVENUDESx is not posting no more, bye, and I may not know a lot about checking pokemon, but i've been collecting events for like 6 months, I stopped due to virus on my computer, and I don't know if I'll be back, but bro, stop, you really don't know what you are talking about.

xLIVENUDESx asked for me to go more into depth, I did. I uploaded a video demonstrating the code that the game runs to prevent mystery gift shinys. I posted an explanation to guide everyone who is not experienced in reading ASM as to what the important lines do. Then I gave instructions so that anyone can verify that code is actually in the game and not something that I put there and made this up.

You may have been collecting pokemon for 6 months but I have had years of programming experience and have been studying the code in pokemon Diamond and Pearl for longer than that.

However, I've yet to see anyone offer evidence other than "it can happen" in regards to the various Woner Card distribution/Mystery Gift received events. Hell, the event list in the trade board still says Movie Shaymin can't be shiny, but it's constantly traded here. While livenudes and Color Me Evil may have evidence, they've yet to present it, or say how one obtains a shiny of these events, or why the conversation I quoted on page one is wrong.

I will add to this that I added on the first post that something that some people say can't be shiny can be shiny.

I also posted a video proving it and an explanation as to what is required for this to happen.

xLIVENUDESx and Color Me Evil have not done that for mystery gift shinys. Why? Because they can't and the proof is in the first post.

Lalalala.

Please notice the NOTICE on SHC. It says
Notice: Remember, that even though your pokemon do have the Pal Park/WC data they should be checked with Pokesav by someone experience.

I am such a person (someone more experienced) and I am saying that they are not legit and the proof is in the first post.
SHC's programmer know that trash bytes are not a reliable way of checking a pokemon. That is why that notice is there.

Color Me Evil, did you watch the video? Did you read the explanation? Did you verify that the code is in the ROM like I say it is.

Let me add that relying on SHC is not a good thing to do. It only checks for so called trash bytes which are very easy to figure out. Its even easier to get around it than to get around legal.exe or pAC.

A hack checking program is only as knowledgeable as the person who coded it. When SHC was programmed I had not confirmed that mystery gift pokemon can not be shiny. That is one reason why it comes out as legit on SHC.

Why do you trust SHC, rather than the code from the game?

Also I know there are a few people who think I had something to do with the creation of pokesav. I did not, but lets suppose that I did.
Why would that be a reason to not trust my analysis? Wouldn't it be a reason to be sure I know what I am talking about. After it take a person very knowledgeable to write such a program. You almost surely use pokesav to get pokemon files, right Color Me Evil? Or do you know how to extract the pokemon from the save yourself and decrypt them to view the correct data?