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^ Plus if any of you guys were part of the Digimon, then you would know the backlash of the different casts that replaced Tai and co. up until the latest anime, where they brought back the original group, only older, and fans rejoiced. Now imagine that situation happened with Pokemon, and you would complain about no Ash much like how a few of you were complaining about Misty and Brock not coming back. The hypocrisy within the Pokemon anime community is quite amusing.
^ Exactly I didn't watched the third series with Tai Sora and co. yet but am interest to do it.
And people complained so much After Misty and Brock left and many are asking for their return imagine with Ash.
Also the writers could have replaced Ash with someone long ago but instead decided to replace Misty with the female player of Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.
I actually remember many Digimon fans considered Tamers best series, partially because its characters, so I dunno.
As for Misty and Brock, if I remember correctly, as many people complained, so many people didn't mind or were even happy. The same with all other characters who left.
The problem with Ash is, people want him to progress. He didn't in Hoenn and people complained, even though he later won Battle Frontier. He even regressed in Unova and many people complained. Be assured people will complain if Ash will not be runner-up in Kalos and some may even complain if he will. After 19 years of the show, people simply want Ash to progress towards or even reach his goal. The question is, however, what that goal is. Pokémon Master is something, that was never specified. So, in my humble opinion, there still will be many things for Ash to do, even after he will win league tournament. The question is, however, could he do it on-screen? I personally don't see why he couldn't, but many people above simply could not imagine that. And that's where the idea of abandoning Ash and move on with new character, even though that character would be doing practically the same thing, came. Though I personally would've preferred for Ash to finally do something more then Gym Battles (battling E4 and Champion is my idea for Ash in future), with Gym Battles being taken by new character.
First of all comparing complaints other characters removal from pokemon anime caused to what kind of impact Misty and Brock left on audience is pointless.
Because only notable backlash happened when Misty was replaced and to lesser extent Brock. Due to being most memorable and defining cast of characters alongside Ash who started everything. Accompanied with pokemon series during original era having a lot more viewers and as result of that bigger fanbase.
Another reason why likes of May, Dawn, Cilan etc never caused such massive complaining to the point of several people abandoning anime is due to people over time getting used to frequent cast changes stopping to care.
But Ash case is completely different pair of sleeves being unwise to do complete revamp for 7th generation and S&M games. Because he is one of original characters. Initiator who promoted whole adventure and concept of pokemon in animated form creating groundwork on which this show was allowed to become so well known and recognizable on global scale. With first group of characters in 90% of cases being one which achieved iconic status, highest popularity and recognition among people. Being viewed as main faces of some anime released in production.
Being practice for several shows out there. With first cast from Yugioh, Digimon etc always receiving most attention and discussion based on what I saw on various places.
So after 20 years of Ash being driving force of pokemon series to the point of people perceiving him as pokemon mascot. Its not hard to predict how much of negative publicity and rage his removal would cause.
Its enough to take a look at Misty situation once she got removed. Causing significant drop of viewers being for its time one of major things which shaken up fandom to its core resulting in massive complaints.
Just Misty case alone revealed how unpopular and badly received removal of highly successful characters can be. Especially if they carry iconic status behind themselves. Being in general out of all replaced characters one for who there is biggest demand for coming back, speculation on her return is always backed by massive interest with departure lifting up lot of dust back than. Alot more than some may be aware nowadays.
Now imagine that amount of backlash and displease being multiplied by 100 in case of Ash being removed after literally two full decades. Cementing his position in pokemon anime to the point of being embodiment of this show. Because if for Misty departure we could say how it had impact of A bomb in dividing fandom. With Ash that would be proportional to impact of at least H-bomb in how much danger in decreasing people interest and reputation for pokemoln overall would his sudden leaving after this long bring among viewers,.
And well in that case future of pokemon anime becomes questionable and jeopardized to say the least.
Most of all changing Ash wont improve anything. Because as lomg gyms are main quest in games(which im willing to bet would be situation for S&M too) whoever steps in his shoes would essentialy do same thing. Alongside having to have Pikachu as tag along pokemon because he is main mascot of whole franchise.
All this repetitivity, inconsistent development and stagnation happening with Ash isn't his character fault. Ash definitely had, still has potential to be much more than what he is currently.
With cause of Ash stagnation, poor continuity and repetition in relying on overused plots originating from writers lack of incentive and motivation to take his character foreard. Deliver more depth to his personality and make practical use of plots surround him. Being written as someone who change, develop as result of experiences and problems he go through with journey taking him somewhere.
Its basically mix of laziness and wrong policy writers and directors reinforce in Pokemon.
This was basically confirmed by Masamitsu Hidaka himself in interview conducted long ago on pokebeach:
From interview:
Spoiler:
Now an overall question about the show. Will Ash ever become a Pokemon Master? He laughed and fell back on the couch. He blatantly said that when Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, the show will end. It will be the last episode. Going back to my first interview, I did not mention that he stated the show was cyclical because it could be the audience is constantly replaced (since children get older and leave, and new children come in), so they are allowed to get away with having the same repetitive goal. So, the show would probably continue the same way collect badges, travel through different regions, never age. Will Ash and Pikachu ever be replaced? No. Will they ever age? No.
Being even more so of a reason in reassuring my doubts of new show being just cosmetic change, with nothing changing in reality as long current standards are being kept. Regardless of who is in anime, Ash, older characters, new ones or completely rebooted anime with new star.
Because first formula needs to change in order to impove show. Thus changing main protagonist wouldn't really do anything except giving new face and same role.
And if formula for upcoming new games indeed changes than im still more in favor of Ash being kept. Because has as it is now too many unexplored things and fresh subplots never answered in his story which would be shame to pass by. Such as his connection to Ho-oh and what makes him worthy and special as trainer. Meet his father testing his son to see if has what it takes to become pokemon master.
Have Ash grow up, age abit and realize what romance is. Touch on whole aspect of having aura powers bringing him in dilemma of whether to continue being trainer or carry on with tradition of being aura guardian.
To just let it discarded. When it could bring new life into him becoming more worthwhile as protagonist.
That and if Ash leaves getting full reboot as some seem to be hoping for Sun and Moon games and its transition to main anime. It would mean new continuity and timeline. Meaning that any of his traveling companions; Serena, Misty, Dawn, Brock, May etc would forever stop to exist.
Being left forgotten with unfinished stiriues, unanswered things and chance to enjoy in them growing in new directions. Ever again.
Which isn't something i would be content about at all.
What I truly seek is a Special feeling!!
A Special feeling that I used to feel when I watched Digimon , Doreamon and Original Pokemon series.
I can still feel that Special feeling from watching Digimon Tri and Doreamon series.
But I don't feel that from new pokemon series.
I really can't explain that Feeling.
Its more like I imagine myself as the protagonist/Character of the series and I want all other character to acknowledge me.
I feel an intense desire for the Protagonist to impress the heroin and all other character in Digimon.
But I don't feel that way from Pokemon XY series!
Its may be because all the character are already impress with Ash and Serena is crushing on Ash from the very beginning.
So , There is noone for Ash to impress or seek acknowledge from because they are already impressed. Maybe , That what Pokemon Sun & Moon needs ! A girl and group of Characters for Ash to impress and seek acknowledgement from.
Suppose , An alternate PokemonXDigimon world where Ash moved to japan and meet his 1st love Kari Kamiya (Adventure) but soon get involve in a Digimon crisis.
I actually remember many Digimon fans considered Tamers best series, partially because its characters, so I dunno.
As for Misty and Brock, if I remember correctly, as many people complained, so many people didn't mind or were even happy. The same with all other characters who left.
Tell that to the ratings, at least regarding Misty (Japan's ratings, especially. Heck, DBZFan even has links to said ratings, and I'll tell you one thing, AG's ratings were far worse than even Johto's).
The problem with Ash is, people want him to progress. He didn't in Hoenn and people complained, even though he later won Battle Frontier. He even regressed in Unova and many people complained. Be assured people will complain if Ash will not be runner-up in Kalos and some may even complain if he will. After 19 years of the show, people simply want Ash to progress towards or even reach his goal. The question is, however, what that goal is. Pokémon Master is something, that was never specified. So, in my humble opinion, there still will be many things for Ash to do, even after he will win league tournament. The question is, however, could he do it on-screen? I personally don't see why he couldn't, but many people above simply could not imagine that. And that's where the idea of abandoning Ash and move on with new character, even though that character would be doing practically the same thing, came. Though I personally would've preferred for Ash to finally do something more then Gym Battles (battling E4 and Champion is my idea for Ash in future), with Gym Battles being taken by new character.
And to the rest of the people claiming they won't cancel the Anime due to it being a major advertisement area for the franchise, bear in mind that Zelda, Mega Man, Sonic, Donkey Kong, and Mario were similar to Pokémon regarding having TV shows meant to market the video games, yet did the TV shows' cancellation harm the video game franchises in any way? Absolutely not. Even Mega Man, which has lost a lot of steam, only started doing so well AFTER the Mega Man show was cancelled. Besides, XY's merchandising revenue even BEFORE Yokai Watch entered the scene was extremely poor anyways if IrregularHunterZ is to be believed, and the merchandising sales are more of the anime's lifeblood than even TV ratings, so if it's doing that bad, the anime itself's days are numbered.
The DIC shows aren't popular in Japan so they don't count since the games are made by Japanese.
The only shows that would be good example would be Sonic X and Mega Man NT Warrior, but the former isn't 100% fateful to the games and the latter is based on a Spin-off.
Maybe , That what Pokemon Sun & Moon needs ! A girl and group of Characters for Ash to impress and seek acknowledgement from.
Suppose , An alternate PokemonXDigimon world where Ash moved to japan and meet his 1st love Kari Kamiya (Adventure) but soon get involve in a Digimon crisis.
OMG! We are talking about kids show, not some stupid Shoujo anime, thank you very much. There's no need for 10 years old boy to try and impress girl. This is exactly what Pokémon anime dosn't need. The moment writers would do something like this, I would stop watching and I am sure many boys (and maybe even girls) in the target audience would feel the same way.
The DIC shows aren't popular in Japan so they don't count since the games are made by Japanese.
The only shows that would be good example would be Sonic X and Mega Man NT Warrior, but the former isn't 100% fateful to the games and the latter is based on a Spin-off.
My point is that those shows were meant to market the games to people within the current region. If we were to use your logic, the DIC shows would have continued airing precisely BECAUSE of the video games' popularity and to cancel the shows would mean the death of the games, at least in the regions and target audiences the show aired to like America.
And you forgot to mention the Kirby anime. Also, the Pokémon Anime isn't 100% faithful to the games either.
OMG! We are talking about kids show, not some stupid Shoujo anime, thank you very much. There's no need for 10 years old boy to try and impress girl. This is exactly what Pokémon anime dosn't need. The moment writers would do something like this, I would stop watching and I am sure many boys (and maybe even girls) in the target audience would feel the same way.
Agreed there. At least have Ash age first BEFORE deciding to go down the romantic route if they really have to do that bit since Ash is still a ten year old kid (even if it is stupid that he's ten for that long and yet there's STILL hints at time passing and thus actual aging) and thus way too young to get focused on such matters. In fact, technically, they already DID do that: Serena, who basically acts all lovestruck with Ash and acts like she's a childhood friend despite the fact that they only saw each other once, Ash NEVER alluded to her at ALL in his previous appearances, AND Ash in the XY series was so oblivious to love he wouldn't recognize Serena crushing on him even if it slapped him in the face. I don't particularly agree with Pokeshipping, but at least THAT had actual instances of both parties reciprocating to some extent, even in the Japanese version.
If there's a sixth series: for it to be the last so it can end already. I truly hope weedle_mchairybug is right and the series does end after XY, because it needs to end. It's gone on long enough.
Maybe it's about time they got rid of Ash for once. We get it, it's enough, I'm sick of Pikachu and Ash losing every single league. Also, it's getting quite repetitive, maybe if there was a full arc about beating up bad guys like in DBZ or something then it'd be quite interesting.
If not, then maybe
Spoiler:
having Dawn and May rejoin Ash, Serena stay with him too, and the three girls form a small harem around him.
Maybe it's about time they got rid of Ash for once. We get it, it's enough, I'm sick of Pikachu and Ash losing every single league. Also, it's getting quite repetitive, maybe if there was a full arc about beating up bad guys like in DBZ or something then it'd be quite interesting.
Agreed. Certainly it beats making several of Ash's wins seem like a joke in the next saga (Best Wishes was particularly bad about that with Trip, though even DP wasn't exactly innocent of this either since Ash and Pikachu lost to an Elekid, despite Pikachu taking down a friggin' Regice earlier, well, that as well as him losing to Electivire owned by his old rival Gary immediately afterward, which was also despite his aforementioned defeat of Regice). Not to mention it would make Ash actually SEEM like he grew stronger throughout the saga. In a way, Dragon Ball is the anime Pokémon failed to be. At least there, Goku actually WAS confirmed to get stronger and so do the bad guys. And yes, if they can't salvage Ash, they might as well dump him. The last thing we need is for him to either lose yet another league, or even if he does have the one major accomplishment, they immediately treat it like a joke by beating a Pokémon he quite frankly should not have lost to).
If not, then maybe
Spoiler:
having Dawn and May rejoin Ash, Serena stay with him too, and the three girls form a small harem around him.
You forgot Misty, especially when she's the only one who can potentially rival Serena (Dawn and May don't exactly hold him with any regard beyond friendship, and only Misty had ANY feelings for Ash beyond that of camaraderie).
My point is that those shows were meant to market the games to people within the current region. If we were to use your logic, the DIC shows would have continued airing precisely BECAUSE of the video games' popularity and to cancel the shows would mean the death of the games, at least in the regions and target audiences the show aired to like America.
And you forgot to mention the Kirby anime. Also, the Pokémon Anime isn't 100% faithful to the games either.
The thing is The DIC shows were target to the Western Audience (I don't even think they aired in Japan) and the Sonic or Mario games primary target were the Japanese audience, if it didn't sell in Japan you could forget sequels.
That's why the cancellation made no impact because they were made for a different culture. There is a reason why Sally Acorn doesn't appear in the games.
And the shows were never responsible for the raise of sells, while the Pokémon anime is.
It works different. The anime is there to advertise the collection of monsters. Making them interesting and making fans buy the Nintendo handhelds to catch the advertised monsters.
You don't get that by a Sonic or Mario game and without the anime many Pokémon would be not being taken seriously.
And yes I forgot the Kirby anime but that's because I never saw it and almost never heard of it
The thing is The DIC shows were target to the Western Audience (I don't even think they aired in Japan) and the Sonic or Mario games primary target were the Japanese audience, if it didn't sell in Japan you could forget sequels.
That's why the cancellation made no impact because they were made for a different culture. There is a reason why Sally Acorn doesn't appear in the games.
And the shows were never responsible for the raise of sells, while the Pokémon anime is.
It works different. The anime is there to advertise the collection of monsters. Making them interesting and making fans buy the Nintendo handhelds to catch the advertised monsters.
You don't get that by a Sonic or Mario game and without the anime many Pokémon would be not being taken seriously.
And yes I forgot the Kirby anime but that's because I never saw it and almost never heard of it
I think you and I need to work on our communications skills. What I meant by that was that if those DIC shows failed in the US, they would forget exporting the games there. I wasn't saying they would cancel the games altogether. Far from it, I was actually saying that they would have simply made the games Japan-exclusive as a result of the DIC shows cancellation, rather than continuing to export the game franchises to the US even AFTER the DIC shows cancellation. Japan would not lose ANYTHING from their cancellation. That's what I was trying to convey with the DIC example, and if the Anime goes under, it really won't impact Pokémon the games in any way. If the Kirby, Battle Network/Star Force, and Sonic X animes' cancellation didn't harm the games their franchises in any significant way, we can't assume that Pokémon's cancellation in Japan would impact the games either.
OMG! We are talking about kids show, not some stupid Shoujo anime, thank you very much. There's no need for 10 years old boy to try and impress girl. This is exactly what Pokémon anime dosn't need. The moment writers would do something like this, I would stop watching and I am sure many boys (and maybe even girls) in the target audience would feel the same way.
Doreamon , Youkai Watch and Digimon are all Kids Anime and they has 10 year boys trying to impress a girl.
Truth is , Target audience love the protagonist to be like them who develop crush on Girl and wants to impress them ! That why Doreamon and Youkai Watch are popular.
Also , A Boy trying impress a girl is a Shouene Anime theme , Not Shoujo!
I think you and I need to work on our communications skills. What I meant by that was that if those DIC shows failed in the US, they would forget exporting the games there. I wasn't saying they would cancel the games altogether. Far from it, I was actually saying that they would have simply made the games Japan-exclusive as a result of the DIC shows cancellation, rather than continuing to export the game franchises to the US even AFTER the DIC shows cancellation. Japan would not lose ANYTHING from their cancellation. That's what I was trying to convey with the DIC example, and if the Anime goes under, it really won't impact Pokémon the games in any way. If the Kirby, Battle Network/Star Force, and Sonic X animes' cancellation didn't harm the games their franchises in any significant way, we can't assume that Pokémon's cancellation in Japan would impact the games either.
The Battle Network games stopped and kirby was already known long before the anime.
Also what sells in Japan the West tries to do aswell.
Aslong the Sonic and Mario games for example sell very well at Japan they will sell in the West.
Like I said Pokémon is different. It's about collecting alot of monsters. How many did say that they didn't care for a specific Pokémon and then when they saw him in the Anime they liked it, like Hawlucha.
Everyone knows Sonic, Mario, Link, or Kirby, but many don't know a Phantumb, and the best way to making him interesting is through the Pokémon Anime.
That's why the Sonic and Mario games still sell. Everyone knows them.
Doreamon , Youkai Watch and Digimon are all Kids Anime and they has 10 year boys trying to impress a girl.
Truth is , Target audience love the protagonist to be like them who develop crush on Girl and wants to impress them ! That why Doreamon and Youkai Watch are popular.
Also , A Boy trying impress a girl is a Shouene Anime theme , Not Shoujo!
I don't know Doraemon, so I can't tell much about it, but in Digimon the only one with crush who was 10 years old (in original Japanese version) was Takato, who was, interstingly, aged 12 in English dub and I guess his love interest in girl was behind this decision. Obviously, the dub creators considered 10 too early for boy to be interested in girl, and rightly so. For many 10 years old, girls are still "eww" and they try and avoid them. Daisuke and Keita from Youkai Watch are both 11 years old and Yamato did not developed his interest in Sora until 02, where he was 14 already. Not to mention Daisuke's crush in Hikari was more like comic relief then anything meant seriously. And even in Youkai Watch, Keita's interest in Fumi-chan is portrayed more like friendly admiration than real crush.
But, the main point is, that boys start to develop interest in girls around 12, some early, some later, but Pokémon target age are actually boys bellow 12, who still, mostly, finds girls annoying creatures from other planet. That's why having Ash interested in girl is bad idea, sorry.
The Battle Network games stopped and kirby was already known long before the anime.
Also what sells in Japan the West tries to do aswell.
Aslong the Sonic and Mario games for example sell very well at Japan they will sell in the West.
Like I said Pokémon is different. It's about collecting alot of monsters. How many did say that they didn't care for a specific Pokémon and then when they saw him in the Anime they liked it, like Hawlucha.
Everyone knows Sonic, Mario, Link, or Kirby, but many don't know a Phantumb, and the best way to making him interesting is through the Pokémon Anime.
That's why the Sonic and Mario games still sell. Everyone knows them.
Says who? Stafy's popular in Japan, yet he's not even sold in America, and Fire Emblem and Custom Robo had to take nearly a decade to even REACH an audience outside Japan. If it fails in the West, they can easily just keep it Japan-exclusive, like they did with the above listed games.
Says who? Stafy's popular in Japan, yet he's not even sold in America, and Fire Emblem and Custom Robo had to take nearly a decade to even REACH an audience outside Japan. If it fails in the West, they can easily just keep it Japan-exclusive, like they did with the above listed games.
I didn't explained well. I meant as long it is sold in Japan the products can be sold in the West. If they don't sell in Japan than you can forget the sells in the West.
You said Sonic and Mario could have their shows continued in the West but SEGAs and NINTENDOs main target is Japan first, with the West being only an extra.
I didn't explained well. I meant as long it is sold in Japan the products can be sold in the West. If they don't sell in Japan than you can forget the sells in the West.
You said Sonic and Mario could have their shows continued in the West but SEGAs and NINTENDOs main target is Japan first, with the West being only an extra.
I mean, if the West has poor reception to the product, the Japanese can forget selling the product there. Just look what happened with Legend of Stafy. In Japan it was a hit. In the West, it bombed, and never received any official translations.
